ベーシックインカム研究の新しい方向性 (New Directions in Basic Income Research Workshop)

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>> GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY.
OUR PROGRAM WILL BEGIN IN ABOUT
FIVE MINUTES.
IF YOU COULD PLEASE MOVE
FORWARD TO FIND YOUR SEATS.
AT THIS TIME WE WOULD ASK YOU
TO TURN OFF OR SILENCE YOUR
CELL PHONES.
ONCE AGAIN OUR PROGRAM WILL
BEGIN IN ABOUT FIVE MINUTES.
>> IF EVERYONE WILL FILL INTO
THE FRONT OF THE SEATS.
>> TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES.
OH I GUESS NOT.
GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY.
OUR PROGRAM WILL BEGIN IN JUST
A MINUTE.
AT THIS TIME WE ASK YOU TO TAKE
YOUR SEATS AND PLEASE MOVE
FORWARD IF YOU FEEL MORE
COMFORTABLE.
IT CREATES A MORE INTIMATE
EXPERIENCE FOR THE SPEAKERS.
WE WOULD ASK YOU AT THIS TIME
TO SILENCE YOUR PHONES.
THROUGHOUT TODAY'S ACTIVITY YOU
MAY NOTICE SOME CONSTRUCTION
NOISE IN THE BUILDING.
THIS FACILITY IS UNDER
RENOVATION.
WE ASK YOU TO BEAR WITH US TO
THE OCCASIONAL INTERRUPTIONS.
WELCOME TO THE NEW DIRECTIONS
INTO BASIC INCOME RESEARCH
WORKSHOP.
BROUGHT TO YOU BY POVERTY
SOLUTIONS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
MICHIGAN.
THE STANDARD BASIC INCOME LET
SUPPORT FROM THE ECONOMIC
SECURITY PROJECT.
AT THIS TIME I WOULD LIKE TO
INTRODUCE MY BOSS, OUR HOST AND
THE DIRECTOR OF POVERTY
SOLUTIONS PROFESSOR LUKE
SHAEFER.
[APPLAUSE]
>> DAMIEN ALMOST RAN OFF WITH
MY REMARKS.
SO ALRIGHT THANKS EVERYONE FOR
COMING.
WE HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT
THIS DAY FOR A REALLY LONG TIME
SO IT'S REALLY EXCITING TO SEE
EVERYONE'S FACES.
I TOOK OFF MY JACKET BECAUSE WE
REALLY WANT TO BE ABOUT BEING
IN FORMAL AND SORT OF SPACE AND
HONEST AND ENGAGE CONVERSATION
ABOUT WHAT I LIKE TO CALL THE
QUESTION OF IS A CASH KING.
WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
WHERE ARE WE AT WITH THE
CONVERSATION WITH BASIC INCOME
AS A STRATEGY FOR POVERTY
ALLEVIATION AND REDUCING
INEQUALITY.
HOW SHOULD SUCH PROGRAMS BE
DESIGNED?
WHO SHOULD THE TARGET?
THIS WEEK WE ARE GOING TO
INTERROGATE THE EVIDENCE ON
WHETHER CASH IS THE BEST WAY TO
HELP.
AND WE ARE GOING TO ASK
QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT EVIDENCE
DO WE NEED OF THE EFFECTIVENESS
OF SUCH PROGRAMS.
HOW SHOULD THEY BE DESIGNED?
UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME?
SHOULD WE DO A NEGATIVE INCOME
TAX?
SHOULD WE TALK ABOUT CHILD
ALLOWANCE RIGHT?
THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
DESIGN OF THESE PROGRAMS BEYOND
QUESTIONS WHETHER CASH IS THE
BEST WAY TO HELP THE QUESTIONS
OF HOW A CASH PROGRAM SHOULD BE
DESIGNED.
THEN THERE ARE POLITICAL
QUESTIONS.
WHAT DO WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
THE ACCEPTABILITY OF SUCH
PROGRAMS.
YOU CAN HAVE THE BEST PROGRAM
IN THE WORLD AND IF PEOPLE ARE
INTERESTED, YOU KNOW OR IT
DOESN'T CONNECT WITH THEM, IT'S
NOT GOING TO WORK.
OF COURSE WE KNOW THE UNIVERSAL
PROGRAMS ARE OFTEN SORT OF THE
MOST POLITICALLY STRONG RIGHT?
THEY CAN LAST FOR A LONGER TIME
BECAUSE EVERYONE IS AT THE BOAT
AND THEY ARE ALSO MORE
EXPENSIVE.
AT THE OTHER SIDE PROGRAMS THAT
TARGET THE POOR CAN MAYBE BE A
BETTER SORT OF MORE EFFICACIOUS
WAY TO USE OUR RESOURCES.
BUT IT'S BEEN SAID THAT
PROGRAMS FOR POOR PEOPLE ARE
POOR PROGRAMS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DYLAN
MATTHEWS SAID IT'S GREAT THAT
THIS CONVERSATION HAS MOVED
BEYOND SORT OF YOU KNOW
UNDERSTANDING CASH TRANSFER
POLICIES IN THE CONCEPTUAL
FRAMEWORK TO ONE WHERE WE ARE
REALLY STARTING TO TALK ABOUT
THE DETAILS.
OUR GOAL AS A GROUP OF EMERGING
SCHOLARS FOR THE NEXT
GENERATION IS TO TRY TO GIVE US
A WEEK AND WERE GET TO TALK
ABOUT WHAT ARE THE MOST
PRESSING QUESTIONS.
WHAT ARE THE WAYS WE SHOULD
MOVE THIS CONVERSATION FORWARD
AND WE HOPE THAT YOU ALL ARE
GOING TO BE A CRITICAL PIECE OF
THAT.
SO WE ARE BRINGING TOGETHER
GRADUATE STUDENTS, EARLY CAREER
SCHOLARS, TOGETHER WITH SOME OF
THE NATION AND FRANKLY THE
WORLD'S LEADING EXPERTS ON
THESE TOPICS.
EITHER ALL THINGS WE ARE GOING
TO DISCUSS IN DETAIL OVER THE
WEEKEND.
I'M NOT GOING TO STAND IN THE
WAY OF OUR GREAT SET OF
PRESENTATIONS.
FIRST THOUGH I WANT TO THANK
OUR COSPONSORS THE ECONOMIC
SECURITY PROJECT FOR GENEROUSLY
PROVIDING SOME FUNDING FOR THIS
EVENT.
FOR THE STANFORD BASIC INCOME
LAB.
AND THEN ALL OF OUR GREAT
CO-ORGANIZERS WHO HELPED US
THINK OF THE AGENDA FOR THIS.
JULIANA BIDADANURE, TAYLOR JO
ISENBERG, MICHAEL LEWIS,
ELIZABETH RHODES.
FINALLY I REALLY WANT TO THANK
MY STAFF WHO HAVE ORGANIZED
THIS INCREDIBLE EVENT AND DONE
SO WITH WHAT APPEARS FROM MY
OFFICE TO BE EFFORTLESS GRACE.
I CAN'T BE MORE IMPRESSED WITH
THE JOB THEY'VE DONE ORGANIZING
AND I GIVE A SPECIAL SHOUT OUT
TO DAVIE AND, POVERTY SOLUTIONS
ADMINISTERED OF COORDINATOR.
HE HAS BEEN A DRIVING FORCE
BEHIND THE LOGISTICS.
LET ME INTRODUCE CHRIS HUGHES.
CHRIS HAS SPENT HIS CAREER
WORKING AT THE INTERSECTION OF
POLITICS AND TECHNOLOGY.
HE WAS A COFOUNDER OF FACEBOOK,
A DIGITAL ARCHITECT FOR
PRESIDENT OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN AND
A PUBLISHER OF DIGITAL AND
PRINT MAGAZINE THE NEW
REPUBLIC.
IN 2016 HE COFOUNDED THE
ECONOMIC SECURITY PROJECT.
A PROJECT TO EXPLORE HOW TO
PROVIDE FINANCIAL SECURITY TO
ALL AMERICANS WHO CASH
TRANSFER.
HE ALSO HAS WORKED ON A RANGE
OF PROGRESSIVE CAUSES FROM HIS
HOME IN NEW YORK CITY.
HE'S AN INVESTOR, A BOARD
MEMBER AND SEVERAL NEW YORK AND
KELLER BASE STARTUPS AND A
GRADUATE FROM WHAT WE LIKE TO
REFER HERE AS THE MICHIGAN OF
THE EAST.
HARVARD.
[LAUGHTER]
OFTEN WHEN YOU ARE AROUND ANN
ARBOR, AT LUNCH OR SOMETHING,
YOU HEAR PEOPLE SORT OF
CONVERSATIONS AT THE NEXT TABLE
COMPARING MICHIGAN TO HARVARD.
I MUST SAY I DID SPENT A
SEMESTER AT HARVARD.
I NEVER ONCE HEARD ANYONE AT
LUNCH COMPARING HARVARD TO THE
MICHIGAN.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT SAYS
ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR
COMPARISON.
CHRIS'S BOOK FAIR SHOT, DOES AN
INCREDIBLE JOB OF LAYING A LOT
OF THE ISSUES WE ARE GOING TO
BE TALKING ABOUT DOWN IN A VERY
COMPELLING ARGUMENT AND ALSO
ONE OF THE THINGS I REALLY LIKE
ABOUT IT IS SORT OF OPPOSING
BACK TO HIS OWN BIOGRAPHY AND
THINKING ABOUT SORT OF THE OWN
TRAJECTORY OF HIS LIFE AND HOW
THE MICROCOSM OF SOME ISSUES WE
HAVE SEEN ON A BROADER SCALE.
WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, CHRIS
HUGHES.
[APPLAUSE]
>> Man: THANK YOU.
THANK YOU LUC FOR THE
INTRODUCTION AND FOR ALL OF YOU
FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
TRULY THIS EVENT WOULD NOT BE
HAPPENING WITHOUT YOUR
LEADERSHIP LUKE SHAEFER AND THE
LEADERSHIP OF THE ENTIRE
POVERTY SOLUTIONS ORGANIZATION.
THOSE ARE CONSTRUCTION.
[LAUGHTER]
IT'S GOING TO KEEP US AWAKE.
GOOD.
IN THE PAST FEW YEARS YOU GUYS
HAVE CREATED AN EPICENTER FOR
CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS ONE
AROUND BASIC INCOME, BUT FOR
CONVERSATIONS IN GENERAL AROUND
ECONOMIC SECURITY.
IN A MOMENT WHEN THERE'S MANY
REASONS TO BE PESSIMISTIC ABOUT
WHERE OUR COUNTRY IS, IT'S
INSPIRING TO ME AND I'LL A LOT
OF PEOPLE THAT YOU GUYS ARE
OPENING SUCH AN IMPORTANT FRONT
IN THE CONVERSATION SO THANK
YOU FOR HAVING US HERE TODAY
AND FOR DOING THE WORK THAT YOU
ARE DOING.
SO, TODAY I WANT TO OPEN UP THE
CONVERSATION AND A SET OF
CONVERSATIONS THAT WILL HAPPEN
OVER THE WEEKEND WITH A TALK
ABOUT POWER.
WE DON'T TALK VERY MUCH ABOUT
POWER IN THE UNITED STATES
TODAY.
WHO HAS IT.HO DOESN'T HAVE
IT.
WHERE IT COMES FROM.
HOW TO GET MORE OF IT.
IT'S LIKE ONE OF THOSE TOPICS
WHICH FEELS OFTEN A LITTLE TOO
DANGEROUS.
IT'S A LITTLE TOO TOUCHY TO
BRING UP IN POLITE
CONVERSATION.
IT COMES UP AT A DINNER PARTY,
YOU KNOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO
HAVE OPINIONS AND PROBABLY
STRONGLY HELD ONE SPIRIT THAT'S
A SIGN THAT IT MATTERS.
WHEN I TALK ABOUT POWER FOR THE
SAKE OF CONVERSATION TODAY,
WHAT I MEAN IS REALLY THE
ABILITY TO SELF ACTUALIZE.
THE ABILITY TO ARRANGE THE
WORLD OF PEOPLE, PLACES AND
THINGS IN A WAY THAT SUITS YOUR
WILL.
THE MOST POWERFUL OR THOSE WHO
HAVE THE FEWEST CONSTRAINTS,
THOSE WHO CAN DO WHAT THEY
WANT, WHEN AND HOW THEY WANTED.
IN MY VIEW THE REALITY TODAY IS
THAT POOR AND MIDDLE-CLASS
PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA ARE LOSING POWER AND
ARE LOSING IT AT A FASTER RATE
THAN WE HAVE SEEN IN A VERY
LONG TIME.
THE AMERICAN DREAM WHICH I
WOULD ARGUE FOR A VERY LONG
TIME HAS BEEN MORE OF A MYTH
THAN A REALITY, IS THE POWER TO
DECIDE FOR YOURSELF WHO YOU
WANT TO BE.
AND EVEN THOUGH THE STOCK
MARKET IS AT RECORD HIGHS,
UNEMPLOYMENT AT RECORD LOWS,
AND ALL THE ECONOMISTS WANT TO
TELL YOU THAT THE ECONOMY IS
DOING JUST GREAT, THE REALITY
IS THAT IF YOU WORK HARD AND
PLAY BY THE RULES THE IDEA THAT
YOUR KIDS WILL DO A LITTLE BIT
BETTER THAN YOU, THAT GRANT
AMERICAN IDEA, THAT'S ON LIFE
SUPPORT.
THAT IS VERY CLOSE TO NO LONGER
BEING TRUE.
EVERY AMERICAN WANTS HER KIDS
TO HAVE CHOICES THAT THEY HAVE
HAD.
THE CHOICE WERE TO LIVE.
WHO TO MARRY.
WHAT TO DO.
WITH YOUR CAREER.
MY PARENTS CERTAINLY WANTED
THAT FOR ME.
I GREW UP IN A LITTLE TOWN
CALLED HICKORY NORTH CAROLINA.
IT WAS AT THE FOOT OF THE
APPELLATION MOUNTAINS.
THE TOWN WAS CALLED HICKORY AND
IT HAD BEEN A HUB FOR FURNITURE
MANUFACTURING AND LABOR
TELECOMMUNICATIONS UNTIL THOSE
INDUSTRIES FOR THE MOST PART
MOVED OVERSEAS.
MY DAD WAS THE SON OF A COUNTRY
CLUB GROUNDSKEEPER AND MILL
WORKER.
HE BECAME A TRAVELING PAPER
SALESMAN.
THE MIDDLEMAN BETWEEN THE BIG
INDUSTRIAL PAPER PRODUCERS AND
SMALL-TOWN PRINTERS.
MY MOM'S PARENTS WERE BOTH MILL
WORKERS.
THEN SHE BECAME A PUBLIC SCHOOL
TEACHER TAUGHT ALGEBRA,
GEOMETRY AND OCCASIONALLY
PRECALCULUS AT THE LOCAL PUBLIC
SCHOOLS.
THEY BOTH DID SIGNIFICANTLY
BETTER THAN THEIR PARENTS HAD
DONE ECONOMICALLY.
THE ECONOMIC SECURITY THAT THEY
ENJOYED GAVE THEM THE FREEDOM
TO CHOOSE WHO THEY WANTED TO
BE.
TO BE THE FIRST IN THEIR
FAMILIES TO GO TO SCHOOL AND
CHOOSE CAREERS THAT LIGHT UP
WITH THEIR OWN PASSIONS.
THEY HOPED THAT MARCH OF
PROGRESS WILL CONTINUE FOR ME.
THEIR SON.
IF YOU ZOOM OUT AND LISTEN TO
THE INTRODUCTION AND LOOK AT
THE TOP LINE OF MY OWN
BIOGRAPHY, IT CAN LOOK LIKE AN
EXTENSION OF THE AMERICAN
DREAM.
I GOT FINANCIAL AID TO LEAVE
HICKORY AND GO TO A FANCY
BOARDING SCHOOL CALLED PHELPS
ACADEMY UP IN MASSACHUSETTS.
I GOT ANOTHER SCHOLARSHIP.
I GOT TO GO TO HARTFORD ON A
MIX OF GRANTS AND STUDENT
LOANS.
THERE I ROOMED WITH MARK
ZUCKERBERG.
WE STARTED FACEBOOK OUR
SOPHOMORE YEAR AND AS I LIKE TO
SAY THE ROCKETSHIP TOOK OFF AND
IT EXPLODED.
EVERYBODY KNOWS MANY OF THE
DETAILS OF THE STORY
PARTICULARLY IF YOU'VE SEEN THE
MOVIE.
WHICH IS GETTING A LITTLE
DATED.
BUT IT EXPOSED A LOT OF PEOPLE
TO THE EARLY YEARS LET'S SAY.
BUT I DID THREE YEARS WITH THE
WORK AT FACEBOOK ON THE
COMMUNICATIONS, MARKETING AND
PRODUCT TEAMS.
FOR THAT I EARNED NEARLY HALF
$1 BILLION BEFORE THE TIME I
WAS 30 YEARS OLD.
SUFFICE TO SAY IN MY VIEW THAT
IS NOT HOW THE AMERICAN DREAM
IS SUPPOSED TO WORK.
THAT'S NOT UP BY YOUR
BOOTSTRAPS WORK.
THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN
CALL MY EXPERIENCE EXCEPT WHAT
IT IS.
A LUCKY BREAK.
BUT LUCK ISN'T EXACTLY THE
RIGHT WORD FOR IT BECAUSE IT
DOESN'T ACKNOWLEDGE VERY
PURPOSEFUL DECISIONS.
THE PEOPLE IN POWER HAVE MADE
TO STRUCTURE OUR ECONOMY THIS
WAY.
WHILE MY STORY MAY BE EXTREME,
I DON'T UNFORTUNATELY THINK
IT'S THAT UNCOMMON.
A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE IN OUR
COUNTRY ARE GETTING
FANTASTICALLY WEALTHY.
SO THE LARGEST CORPORATIONS ARE
LARGER THAN I'VE EVER BEEN AND
IN THE SAME.
WORKING PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING
TO MAKE ENDS MEET.
WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT
STORIES LIKE MINE ARE MAKING UP
A COLLECTION OF STORIES THAT
CREATE THIS ILLUSION OF
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.
THIS NARRATIVE THAT IF YOU JUST
WORK A LITTLE BIT HARDER, YOU
TWO OR YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER CAN
BE THE NEXT MARK ZUCKERBERG.
THAT JUST SIMPLY IS NOT
REFLECTED IN REALITY.
WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING, IS
PORT AND MIDDLE-CLASS FAMILIES
ARE LOSING POWER.
YEAR AFTER YEAR.
WHILE A SELECT FEW GETTING VERY
LUCKY.
NOW IN THIS ROOM IN PARTICULAR
I DON'T HAVE TO GO INTO ALL THE
TOP LINE STATS. IMAGINE THAT
SHOW THE DOCUMENT THIS IDEA.
THERE'S A COUPLE I THINK ARE
IMPORTANT.
THE MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME OF
AMERICANS HAS BARELY BUDGED IN
THE PAST 40 YEARS.
WHILE THE COST OF LIVING HAS
RISEN BY NEARLY 30 PERCENT.
PARTICULARLY DRIVEN BY RISES IN
CHILDCARE COSTS, HOUSING COSTS
AND HEALTHCARE COSTS.
SMALL BUSINESS STARTS, A METRIC
THAT SUGGEST THE OVERALL LEVEL
OF ENTREPRENEURSHIP HASN'T BEEN
AS LOW IN DECADES.
AMERICANS ARE MOVING FAR LESS
OFTEN.
THAN EVER HAVE BEFORE.
THE COST OF HOUSING IN OUR
CITIES IS SKYROCKETING.
AS IS THE COST FOR HIGHER
EDUCATION.
IN CHILDCARE.
AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO SAY THAT
SOME GROUPS ARE MUCH MORE
DISEMPOWERED THAN OTHERS.
IN 2016, THE AVERAGE NET WORTH
OF WHITE FAMILIES WAS ONE
$70,000.
COMPARED WITH $18,000 FOR
AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAMILIES AND
21,004 HISPANIC ONES.
ON AVERAGE A WOMAN STILL EARNS
$0.81 FOR EVERY DOLLAR A MAN
EARNS IN WOMEN'S MEDIAN ANNUAL
EARNINGS ARE OVER $10,000 LESS
THAN MEN'S.
BUT THE SAME TIME PEOPLE ARE
LOSING ECONOMIC POWER, THEY ARE
ALSO LOSING MANY OTHER KINDS OF
POWER.
FOR INSTANCE POWER IN OUR
POLITICS.
THE FLOOD OF MONEY INTO SPECIAL
INTERESTS MEANS ELECTED
OFFICIAL SPENT AS MUCH TIME
DIALING FOR DOLLARS, QUITE
FRANKLY CALLING PEOPLE LIKE ME
TO HEAR MY OPINION ON THINGS,
RATHER THAN TALKING TO THE
CONSTITUENTS AND REFLECTING THE
WILL OF THE PEOPLE THEY
REPRESENT.
THE MODERN PARTY AND PRIMARY
SYSTEM MAKES IT EASY FOR FRENCH
CANDIDATES TO EMERGE AND WHEN
WE END UP WITH PEOPLE LIKE
DONALD TRUMP AND THE WHITE
HOUSE EVEN THOUGH ONE IN FOUR
AMERICANS VOTED FOR HIM.
IN THE LAST ELECTION.
AT THE SAME TIME, CORPORATE
MONOPOLIES AND OLIGOPOLIES ARE
RESTRICTING CONSUMER CHOICE.
WHILE GIVING THE ILLUSION OF
ABUNDANCE.
WALMART AND TARGET SEEM TO
OFFER SUPERSIZED OPTIONS.
ROWS AND ROWS OF BEAUTIFULLY
COLORED PRODUCTS BUT BEHIND THE
SCENES COMPANIES HAVE ACTUALLY
CONSOLIDATED IN ALMOST EVERY
SECTOR.
A NARROW CONSUMER CHOICE.
A NARROW CONSUMER POWER.
A SINGLE COMPANY LIKE EXOTICA
OWNS MORE OR LESS THE ENTIRETY
OF THE EYEGLASS MARKET.
NOT ONLY THE STORES THEMSELVES,
STORES LIKE LENSCRAFTERS AND
PEARLE VISION, EYEGLASS SECTION
OF TARGET, BUT ALSO THE
MANUFACTURERS.
FROM THE CHEAPEST ONES TO GUCCI
AND RALPH LAUREN.
ALL MADE BY THE SAME COMPANY.
CONSUMERS HAVE NO IDEA.
TUBULAR MAKERS PRODUCE 96
PERCENT OF THE BEER SOLD IN
AMERICA.
PHARMACY CHAINS OWN ROUGHLY 90
PERCENT OF THE PHARMACIES IN
OUR COUNTRY.
AND FACEBOOK BECAUSE IT OWNS
INSTAGRAM AND BY SOME ACCOUNTS
CONTROLS AS MUCH AS 80 PERCENT
OF THE TRAFFIC THAT MOVES
THROUGH THE SOCIAL WEB.
NOT ONLY ARE THESE MONOPOLIES
CONCENTRATING POWER IN THE
HANDS OF A FEW CORPORATE
LEADERS, THEY ARE ALSO KEEPING
WAGES LOW.
IT'S CONNECTING TO THE LARGER
TOPIC WE ARE ALL HERE TO
DISCUSS THIS WEEKEND.
WHEN THE ONLY EMPLOYER IN TOWN
IS WALMART, THERE'S NO REAL
COMPETITIVE MARKET FOR LABOR.
AND BY SOME ACCOUNTS, WITHOUT
THE MONOPSONY POWER OF LARGE
EMPLOYERS, WAGES IN THIS
COUNTRY WOULD BE AS MUCH AS 10
TO 20 PERCENT HIGHER THAN THEY
ARE TODAY.
NOW IN CASE I AM PAINTING TOO
BLEAK OF A PICTURE, THERE IS
TRUE THERE ARE BRIGHT SHOES.
WE HAVE IPHONES AND NETFLIX.
THERE ARE MORE FARMERS MARKETS
AND THERE WERE A DECADE AGO.
BUT THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM IS
CLEAR.
WHEN YOU HAVE RESTRICTED
CHOICE, STAGNANT WAGES AND
LITTLE LITTLE POWER, YOU HAVE
FRUSTRATION.
YOU HAVE ANGER.
IN THE RISING TIDE OF
NATIONALISM AND POPULISM IN OUR
COUNTRY IS MUCH BIGGER THAN
ECONOMICS ALONE.
IT'S A CULTURAL SENSE.
THAT EVERYDAY PEOPLE ARE LOSING
THEIR VOICE, LOSING THEIR
ABILITY TO KNOW THEIR FAMILY
WILL BE HAPPY AND HEALTHY FOR
THE LONG-TERM.
I THINK IT'S UP TO US TO TRIM
AND TIDY.
IF YOU SUGGESTIONS ON HOW I
THINK WE SHOULD DO IT.
FIRST OFF, I THINK WE NEED TO
THINK COMPREHENSIVELY AND
AGGRESSIVELY ABOUT WHAT SHOULD
BE DONE.
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH WITH
INCREMENTAL SOLUTIONS THAT
NIBBLE AROUND THE EDGES AND
DON'T CHANGE THE FUNDAMENTAL
DYNAMICS OF HOW OUR ECONOMY
WORKS AND WHO HE WORKS FOR.
THE ECONOMY THAT WE LIVE WITH
TODAY HAS BEEN NEARLY 50 YEARS
IN THE MAKING AND IT NEEDS A
FUNDAMENTAL RESTRUCTURING.
WE OWE IT TO OURSELVES TO THINK
BIG, TO THINK BOLDER AND TO BE
PROUD OF THAT.
SECOND, WE NEED A BROAD AND
DIVERSE SET OF PRACTITIONERS.
TO COME FROM EVERY WALK OF LIFE
TO ROLL UP THEIR SLEEVES AND
APPLY TO TALENTS WHERE THEY
CAN.
THIS IS WHERE YOU GUYS COME IN.
STUDENTS AND RESEARCHERS,
ACTIVISTS AND ORGANIZERS,
POLITICAL AND BUSINESS LEADERS,
RICH AND POOR AND BLACK AND
WHITE, OLD AND YOUNG, WE NEED A
MOBILIZATION THAT HAS NOT BEEN
SEEN IN GENERATIONS IN OUR
COUNTRIES.
THIRDLY, LET'S AGREE TO HAVE A
HETERO APPROACH TO RESTORING
POWER TO WORKING PEOPLE.
LET'S AGREE UPFRONT THAT THERE
ARE NO MAGIC BULLETS.
THAT NO SINGLE IDEA WHETHER
IT'S UNIVERSAL, BASIC INCOME, A
JOB GUARANTEE OR A BETTER
COMPETITION OF POLICY ALONE IS
GOING TO CHANGE ALL OF OUR
PROBLEMS.
WE NEED CAMPAIGN-FINANCE
REFORM, UNIVERSAL CHILDCARE,
SINGLE-PAYER HEALTHCARE FOR
EVERY AMERICAN, STREAMLINED
LICENSING REQUIREMENTS, SMALLER
CITY PLANNING, BETTER HOUSING
POLICY, WE NEED ALL THESE
INTERVENTIONS.
LET'S PUT AT THE CENTER OF THIS
CONVERSATION THOUGH, THE
SIMPLEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE WAY
TO GET PEOPLE POWER.
CASH.
BY DEFINITION, MONEY IS THE
MOST LIQUID FUNGIBLE SOURCE OF
POWER.
IT ENABLES AN INDIVIDUAL TO
DECIDE WHAT SHE WANTS, WHERE
SHE WANTS TO GO, WHAT SHE WANTS
TO DO WITH HER TIME.
NOW I WANT TO BE CLEAR MONEY IS
NOT POWER PER SE.
YOU NEED TO HAVE A GOOD OPTION
SET TO CHOOSE FROM.OU NEED
TO HAVE SKILLS TO THINK THROUGH
WHAT YOU WANT AND WHAT YOU
NEED.
BUT IN A WORLD LIKE THE ONE WE
LIVE IN TODAY, CASH IS THE MOST
POWERFUL LEVER WE CAN PULL TO
EMPOWER THE AMERICANS WHO NEED
IT MOST.
THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO GET CASH
IN THE HANDS OF WORKING PEOPLE
WHO NEED MORE OF IT.
YOU CAN LOWER TAXES.
YOU COULD REDUCE THE COSTS OF
FUNDAMENTALLY IMPORTANT
SERVICES LIKE TRANSPORTATION
AND CHILDCARE.
YOU CAN RESTRUCTURE MARKETS TO
LOWER PRICES OF GOODS.
YOU CAN RAISE WAGES.
ALL OF THESE THINGS WOULD
INCREASE THE CAST IN PEOPLE'S
POCKETS AND I WOULD ARGUE WE
SHOULD DO ALL OF THESE THINGS.
BUT FOR THE SAKE OF THE
CONVERSATION TODAY, I WANT TO
FOCUS ON ANOTHER ROUTE THAT'S
BEEN TALKED A LOT ABOUT
HISTORICALLY AND FORTUNATELY
TODAY IS ENJOYING A RESURGENCE
OF ATTENTION.
SPECIFICALLY, HOW WE CAN CREATE
A GUARANTEED INCOME FOR
AMERICANS.
AS MOST OF YOU KNOW, THIS IDEA
GOES BACK CENTURIES.
TO THOMAS PAINE, JULIET REESE
WILLIAMS, MILTON FREEMAN, OR
LUTHER KING JUNIOR, RICHARD
NIXON.
ALL OF THEM SUPPORTED SOME KIND
OF GUARANTEED INCOME.
TODAY OF COURSE, THE UNIVERSAL
BASIC INCOME OR UBI IS GETTING
A TON OF ATTENTION.
BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE
MARK ZUCKERBERG AND ELON MUSK
AND OTHERS FROM A TECHNOLOGY
SECTOR ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE
RISE OF THE ROBOTS.NY
POTENTIAL PERMANENT IMPACT ON
THE NATURE OF EMPLOYMENT.
THERE IS A LOT OF FEAR THAT
JOBS ARE GOING AWAY.
THAT MAY BE TRUE.
IT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE.
HOPEFULLY THAT'S NOT ONE OF THE
THINGS WE DEBATE OVER THE NEXT
TWO DAYS.
WHAT I WOULD SAY IS WE DON'T
NEED ROBOTS TO TAKE ALL THE
JOBS TO KNOW THE AMERICANS ARE
EARLY SHRUGGING ANY MORE POWER.
AND THAT CASH IS THE MOST
EFFECTIVE WAY TO PROVIDE IT.
TO BE VERY SPECIFIC, WHAT'S THE
PROBLEM THAT A GUARANTEED
INCOME IS TRYING TO SOLVE?
I THINK THERE ARE TWO.
ONE IS INCOME INEQUALITY.
IN THE SECOND IS INCOME
INSTABILITY.
WE HAVE MANY TOOLS TO
RESTRUCTURE OUR ECONOMY IN THE
SHORT TERM BUT A GUARANTEED
INCOME SPECIFICALLY IF WE PAY
FOR IT THROUGH PROGRESSIVE
TAXATION IS UNIQUELY ABLE TO
REST THE UPPER DISTRIBUTION OF
CAPITAL THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE
STRUCTURED IN OUR TAX CODE.
THEN THE CURB TO MAKE IT MORE
FAIR.
SECONDLY, A GUARANTEED INCOME
THAT ARRIVES IN A BIG ACCOUNT
EVERY SINGLE MONTH LIKE
CLOCKWORK WOULD BE A HEARTBEAT
OF STABILITY.
SOMETHING YOU COULD RELY ON NO
MATTER WHAT.
SOMETHING THAT IS PARTICULARLY
NEEDED AT A TIME WHEN NEARLY
HALF OF OUR WORKFORCE IS
PART-TIME, CONTRACT, SEASONAL
OR IN TEMPORARY JOBS.
THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE SHOWS
NONE OF THIS UNDERLYING
INSTABILITY THAT WE KNOW IS
ONLY GETTING WORSE.
NOW I AM NOT, MAYBE A BIT OF A
SURPRISE, NOT PART OF THE
SCHOOL THAT CAN CREATE UBI IN
UNITED STATES TODAY.
THIS MIGHT BE AN AREA OF
DISAGREEMENT AND SOME IN THE
ROOM.
$1000 A MONTH TO EVERY AMERICAN
I THINK WOULD BE TOO EXPENSIVE
FOR 2018 DOLLARS.
MIND YOU NOT FOCUS ON THE
PEOPLE WHO NEED THE MOST HELP.
BUT I'LL THINK OF UBI AS A
PARTICULAR POLICY OR PLAN.
I THINK OF IT AS A SET OF
VALUES THAT INSPIRE A WIDE
VARIETY OF POLICIES.
SO EVERY TIME SOMEBODY ASKED ME
CHRIS, WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?
I IMMEDIATELY SHIFT THE
CONVERSATION TO TALK ABOUT THE
VALUES.
SPECIFICALLY THE IDEA THAT
EVERY SINGLE PERSON DESERVES
THE FREEDOM AND DIGNITY TO
CREATE THEIR OWN FUTURE AND NOT
CASH IS UNIQUELY ABLE TO
GUARANTEE THOSE.
IF WE CAN AGREE ON THAT COMMON
VALUE SET, THEN I THINK WE OWE
IT TO OURSELVES TO BE
CREATIVELY ABOUT HOW TO ACHIEVE
THESE ENDS.
ONE MIGHT BE THROUGH A
MODERNIZATION OF OUR TAX BILL
THAT CREATES A KIND OF NEGATIVE
INCOME TAX.
A GOVERNMENT CASH TRANSFER OF
$500 A MONTH.
EVERY SINGLE MONTH.
TO EVERY ADULT MAKING LESS THAN
$50,000.
THIS IS SPECIFICALLY THE
PROPOSAL THAT I TALK ABOUT IN
MY RECENT BOOK FAIR SHOP.
ANOTHER DIFFERENT APPROACH
MIGHT BE TOO CREATE A SOCIAL
DIVIDEND.
YOU CAN FUND IT THROUGH A TAX
ON CARBON OR A TAX ON DATA.
AND THAT WOULD PROVIDE PAYMENTS
TO EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN.
PROBABLY AT A MORE MODEST LEVEL
TO BEGIN.
OVER TIME, THAT MIGHT GROW.
STILL ANOTHER APPROACH MIGHT BE
TO BEGIN FUNDING A SOVEREIGN
WEALTH FUND TODAY AND CREATE
SOME KIND OF TRIGGER.
TO ENABLE SOCIAL SECURITY.
TO PAY OUT THOSE FUNDS ONCE THE
SAVINGS ACCOUNT HAS GOTTEN
LARGE ENOUGH.
THEN WE ENTER AN ERA IN
AMERICAN HISTORY WHERE THERE IS
SO SECURITY FOR ALL.
THESE ARE JUST A FEW OF THE
EXAMPLES OF IDEAS THAT ARE OUT
THERE AND I KNOW MANY OF YOU
HAVE OTHERS.
BUT WHEREVER WE ARE ON WHAT
PARTICULAR ITERATION OF THIS
FEELS MOST EXCITING TO EACH OF
US, I THINK THE END RESULT
SHOULD BE CLEAR.
A RECURRING REGULAR STIPEND IN
THE POCKETS OF THE AMERICANS
WHO NEED IT MOST.
IF WE CAN AGREE ON THIS AS A
GOAL, WE MUST AS EVERY SINGLE
PERSON IN THIS ROOM WHAT CAN
YOU BRING TO THE SPITE?
WHAT KIND OF LEADER DO YOU WANT
TO BE.
OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS I HAVE
GRAPPLED WITH THIS QUESTION FOR
MYSELF AND A LARGE AND GROWING
COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE AND I'M
ENCOURAGED.
BECAUSE NOT JUST A FEW, MANY,
DOZENS APPROACHING HUNDREDS
HAVE DECIDED TO DEDICATE
THEMSELVES AND THEIR LIVES TO
THIS PROBLEM.
I WANT TO INTRODUCE IN A VIDEO
HERE YOU TO ONE WOMAN IN THE
ECONOMIC SECURITY PROJECTS
NETWORK.
AISHA WHO I GAINED INSPIRATION
FROM EVERY WEEK IF NOT EVERY
DAY.
AISHA RECENTLY HAD A BABY OF
HER OWN SO SHE CAN'T BE WITH US
HERE TODAY.UT I WANT TO
INTRODUCE YOU TO HER VIA VIDEO
BECAUSE SHE'S AN ORGANIZER WHO
DECIDED TO LAUNCH A GUARANTEED
INCOME PILOT FOR SINGLE BLACK
MOTHERS IN HER HOMETOWN OF
JACKSON MISSISSIPPI.
THIS POOR STATE INTERNATION.
[MUSIC]
>> Woman: I DON'T THINK WE
REALIZE THAT OUR FUTURE IS
REALLY DETERMINED BY WHAT WE
ARE EXPOSED TO AND WHAT WE
DREAM ABOUT.
I KNEW WHAT I WANTED TO DO WHEN
I WAS 10 YEARS OLD.
I WANTED TO WORK FOR THE
COMMUNITY.
THAT'S BECAUSE MY GRANDMOTHER
WAS AN ACTIVIST.
[AUDIO LOST]
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE GENERATIONS
OF POVERTY.
>> WHEN AISHA FOUND ME |
[MUSIC]
>> WE WANT TO GIVE YOU A
FEELING OF COMPLETION.
[LAUGHTER]
>> WE TALK ABOUT THERE BEING A
LACK OF LEADERSHIP IN THESE
COMMUNITIES.
I DON'T THINK IT'S A LACK OF
LEADERSHIP, I THINK PEOPLE ARE
EXHAUSTED AND THEY ARE FED UP
WITH THIS TEXT.
IF I HAVE THE ABILITY TO THINK
AND BREATHE AND DREAM I THINK
SOME OF THE LEADERSHIP THAT IS
NATURALLY IN THESE COMMUNITIES
WILL BEGIN TO MANIFEST AGAIN.
>> I REALLY DIDN'T THINK THEY
WOULD THINK AHEAD.
JUST WORRIED ABOUT RIGHT NOW.
I WENT TO SCHOOL FOR SOCIAL
WORK.
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO IT ON
MY OWN.
MY REALITY IS I CAN'T.
I'M NOT ASHAMED TO SAY I NEED
HELP.
>> IF WE JUST LOOK AT THE
NUMBER OF FOLKS WHO LIVE IN
POVERTY IN THIS COUNTRY, THE
MAJORITY ARE WOMEN AND THEIR
KIDS.
SO HAVING THE ABILITY TO LIFT
THEM OUT OF POVERTY WOULD BE
GREAT.
I THINK BASIC INCOME COULD HELP
IN SO MANY INSTANCES.
GIVING SOMEONE MONTHLY CASH
WITH STILL A SENSE OF BREATHING
ROOM.
I THINK IT SHOULD BE
UNCONDITIONAL.
I THINK WE SHOULD TRUST PEOPLE
TO KNOW WHAT IT IS THEY NEED.
I THINK HAVING BASIC INCOME CAN
REALLY HAVE THE COMMUNITY
ACROSS THE COUNTRY BECAUSE
LOCAL LEADERSHIP WOULD BEGIN TO
FLOURISH.
>> IF I COULD NAME ONE PERSON I
FEEL LIKE I DID SOMETHING.
IF I COULD GET TO I'M KICKING
MY HEALS UP.
>> FOLKS WITH LIMITED INCOME
ARE JUST LIKE YOU AND I. THEY
HAVE THE SAME DREAMS WE HAVE
PRAYED THEY WANT THEIR KIDS TO
GO TO COLLEGE.
WANT THEIR KIDS TO HAVE
BIRTHDAYS.
THEY WANT GRANDBABIES.
THEY WANT THE WHITE PICKET
FENCE AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO
TAKE VACATIONS.
THEY WANT THE SAME THING WE
WANT.
WE ARE NOT DIFFERENT.
THAT'S THE PIECE I WANT TO GIVE
OUT TO.
THERE ARE DREAMS I HAVE WITH MY
SON THAT ARE EXACTLY THE SAME
DREAMS I HAVE WITH THEIR
FAMILIES.
>> Man: I GOT A CHANCE TO GO
DOWN TO JACKSON IN FEBRUARY AND
SPENT A COUPLE DAYS WITH AISHA
AND SEVERAL OF THESE MOMS.
I HAVE TO TELL YOU, SITTING
AROUND A TABLE IN THE MIDDLE OF
THE PUBLIC HELPING COMPLEX
HEARING HOW DIFFICULT WE HAVE
MADE THE LIVES OF THESE POOR
RESILIENT WOMEN WAS SHAMEFUL.
SHAMEFUL TO ME AS AN AMERICAN
THAT WE HAVE CREATED A SYSTEM
THAT IS PREMISED ON A DEEP LACK
OF TRUST.
NOT ONLY DO WE NOT PROVIDE
THESE WOMEN WITH THE
SPRINGBOARD TO CHASE THEIR
DREAMS, WE HAVE CREATED A WHOLE
CONSTELLATION OF SOCIAL
PROGRAMS.
WHICH FORCED THEM TO DECIDE
EXACTLY, TAKE DECISIONS THEY
WOULD NOT OTHERWISE MAKE.
WOMEN WHO DON'T HAVE THEIR
SIGNIFICANT OTHERS MOVE IN WITH
THEM.
BECAUSE IF THEY DO, THEY WILL
GET KICKED OUT OF PUBLIC
HOUSING.
THAT'S AGAINST THE RULES.
WOMEN WHO DON'T DARE GET OVER A
COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLARS IN A
SAVINGS ACCOUNT BECAUSE IF THEY
DO, THEY WILL SUDDENLY NOT BE
ABLE TO GET ACCESS TO THE
BENEFITS THEY HAVE NOW.
WOMEN WHO SPEND HOURS A DAY
NAVIGATING A COMPLEX AND
WOEFULLY INSUFFICIENT
TRANSPORTATION NETWORK AROUND
JACKSON MISSISSIPPI JUST TO GET
A MINIMUM WAGE JOB.
JUST SO THAT, THE GOVERNMENT
CAN SAY OH WELL BECAUSE YOU ARE
A BURGER KING YOU ARE WORKING.
WHEN IN REALITY, MANY OF THEM
ARE WORKING VERY HARD AT HOME
DUE TO CHILDCARE THAT THEY
DEDICATED THEMSELVES TO.
MANY AMERICANS INCLUDING A LOT
OF PEOPLE I GREW UP WITH,
MEMBERS OF MY OWN EXTENDED
FAMILY, ARE CONVINCED THAT
OTHER PEOPLE ARE STANDING BY
WAITING TO TAKE THEIR HEART IN
MONEY AND THOSE PEOPLE ARE JUST
HANGING OUT LIVING ON THE DOLE
QUOTE UNQUOTE.I THINK THESE
NARRATIVES ARE DRIVEN BY THINLY
CODED RACISM THAT IS GROUNDED
IN A FUNDAMENTAL DISTRUST
BETWEEN AMERICANS.
AND THAT CYNICISM AND ISOLATION
I BELIEVE IS OUR GREATEST ENEMY
IN THE SPITE.
OVER THE COMING YEARS, WE ARE
GOING TO NEED A LOT OF THINGS.
ON HIS JOURNEY.
BUT THREE IN PARTICULAR STAND
OUT PRETTY DATA, STORIES, AND
ORGANIZATION.
MANY PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM HAVE
READ ALL THE REPORTS AND
STUDIES DOCUMENTING THE
EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE FOR CASH.
IT'S A MUCH LARGER BODY OF
EVIDENCE THAT MOST PEOPLE
BELIEVE.
BUT WE NEED MORE OF IT.
WE KNOW THAT STUDY AFTER STUDY
HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE IN UNITED
STATES SHOWS THAT PROVIDING
PEOPLE WITH CASH IMPROVES THE
QUALITY OF LIFE ACROSS THE
BOARD.
KIDS STAY IN SCHOOL LONGER.
THEY DO BETTER ON TESTS.
WHEN YOU PROVIDE FAMILIES WITH
CASH, HOSPITALIZATION RATES GO
DOWN.
RATES OF ALCOHOLISM AND MENTAL
HEALTH ISSUES DECREASE.
ADULTS CONTINUE TO WORK JUST AS
MUCH AS IT DID BEFORE.
IF NOT MORE.
AND PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANTLY,
PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO STEP ONE
STEP BACK FROM THE BREAK.
BUT THE MORE DATA THAT WE HAVE
ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF CASH, THE
STRONGER OUR ARGUMENTS WILL BE.
SO LET'S DO MORE RESEARCH.
SECOND, I THINK WE NEED MORE
STORIES.
WE NEED MORE FACES LIKE PEOPLE
LIKE AISHA AND OTHERS.
AND WE NEED MORE VOICES FROM
THE COMMUNITIES THAT A
GUARANTEED INCOME WHEN MOST
POWERFULLY IMPLEMENT.
LET'S HAVE AISHA ON THE COVER
OF TIME MAGAZINE TALKING ABOUT
A BASIC INCOME NOT ELON MUSK.
THE MAYOR OF STOCKTON
CALIFORNIA, MICHAEL TUBBS, IS
RUNNING A DEMONSTRATION OF THE
IDEA OF A GUARANTEED INCOME TO
SPECIFICALLY AMPLIFY THE
STORIES OF THE BENEFICIARIES.
AND TO PUT A HUMAN FACE ON WHO
STANDS TO BENEFIT THE MOST.
AND PERHAPS IRONICALLY, HE IS
AN INDIVIDUAL HAS GOT AN
IMMENSE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION,
MUCH MORE ATTENTION THAN HE OR
ANY OF US EVER EXPECTED.
HIS OWN STORY GROWING UP IN
POVERTY IN A SINGLE-PARENT
HOUSEHOLD HAVING A FATHER WHO
HAD BEEN INCARCERATED, SEEING
HIS MOM STRUGGLE WITH THESE
BILLS AND TALKING TO HER ABOUT
WHAT DIFFERENCE $500 EVERY
MONTH COULD MAKE IN HER LIFE IS
WHAT INSPIRED HIM TO LEAD AND
IT'S WHAT'S INSPIRING OTHER
PEOPLE AND STOCKTON TO STAND UP
AND DEMAND THE RIGHT TO
ECONOMIC SECURITY.
THESE STORIES HAVE TO BE TOLD
AND TOLD MORE OFTEN AND TOLD
LOUDER.
DOCUMENTARIES, ON THE NIGHTLY
NEWS, AND FACEBOOK FEEDS AND
PERSON-TO-PERSON.
WE HAVE TO HAVE STORIES TO
CHANGE THE NARRATIVE.
AND THIRDLY, WE NEED AN
ORGANIZATION.
WE NEED MORE PEOPLE FOCUSED ON
HOW TO ACHIEVE NEAR TERM ENDS.
THROUGH NONPROFITS, THROUGH
CITY AND STATE GOVERNMENTS, AND
AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.
IN ORDER TO REBALANCE POWER, WE
HAVE TO BUILD SOME POWER IN OUR
OWN MOVEMENT FIRST.
THE GROUP THAT I CO-RUN THE
ECONOMIC SECURITY PROJECT IS
PLAYING I THINK A CENTRAL ROLE
AS AN ORGANIZING HUB AND THE
SPITE.
BUT ULTIMATELY, IT'S NOT GOING
TO BE ONE GROUP OR ONE
NONPROFIT.
TO BUILD A MOVEMENT BEHIND THIS
IDEA WE NEED EVERY SINGLE
PERSON IN ROOMS LIKE THIS ONE
TO TAKE A MOMENT TO STEP BACK
AND TO EVALUATE WHAT CAN I DO?
NOT JUST IN MY SPARE TIME BUT
HOW CAN I CHANGE MY LIFE?
TWO DEDICATED TOWARD PROVIDING
ECONOMIC SECURITY TO ALL
AMERICANS?
I BELIEVE THE TIME HAS COME TO
ADOPT A SHARPER, CLEAR TONE TO
WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR
COUNTRY.
THE LIBERAL RULES THAT OUR
LEADERS HAVE USED OVER THE PAST
50 YEARS TO BUILD OUR ECONOMIC
SYSTEM AND CREATE THIS MASSIVE
IMBALANCE OF POWER UNDERMINE
THE AMERICA THAT WE LIVE IN AND
I THINK A COUNTRY THAT WE WANT
IT TO BE.
WE ALL HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO
CHANGE THAT DIRECTION.
AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO
BETTER WAY TO LEVEL THE PLAYING
FIELD AND RESPECT THE
FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOM AND DIGNITY
OF EACH INDIVIDUAL MENTOR CASH.
LET'S USE EVERY TOOL WE HAVE
TWO GET MORE OF IT IN THE HANDS
OF THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT MOST.
THANK YOU.
[APPLAUSE]
>> WE ARE GOING TO TAKE SOME
TIME FOR SOME QUESTIONS AND
CONVERSATION WITH CHRIS.
KATE AND JULIA WILL HAVE
MICROPHONES GOING AROUND.
I WILL START US OFF JUST WITH A
QUICK SOFTBALL QUESTION.
CHRIS, YOU TALKED A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT THE EVIDENCE BASED ON
CASH AS PREFERABLE TO INCLINE
ANOTHER PIECE OF THE CASE YOU
ARE MAKING IS MONTHLY CASH.
REGULAR CASH.
WE HAVE THIS EARNED INCOME TAX
CREDIT WHICH IS CASH AND SOME
OF THE EVIDENCE HE RESIDING WAS
FROM THE ITC.
LUMPED UP INTO TAX RETURNS THAT
PEOPLE GET ONCE A YEAR.
SO WHAT IS THE REASON FOR
SOMETHING THAT COMES ON A
MONTHLY BASIS MORE REGULARLY?
>> Man: THE NEED FOR MONTHLY IS
ABOUT THE PROBLEM OF INCOME
INSTABILITY.
SO INCOME INEQUALITY AS WE KNOW
GETS A LOT OF ATTENTION BUT
INCOME INSTABILITY I THINK IS
VERY PROBLEMATIC AS WELL.
ACCORDING TO YOU KNOW
ECONOMISTS OUT OF PRINCETON, IN
THE PAST DECADE, A DECADE AFTER
THE GREAT RECESSION, 94 PERCENT
OF THE JOBS WE HAVE CREATED IN
THE UNITED STATES HAVE BEEN
PART TIME CONTRACTOR OR
TEMPORARY.
IF WE EXPAND OR THINK ABOUT THE
GIG ECONOMY NOT JUST AS TASK
RABBIT LIFT AND UBER BUT ALSO
SOMEONE WHO WORKS AT STARBUCKS
AND WHEN WE GET 20 HOURS AND
THE NEXT WEEK SHE GETS 35.
THE NEXT WEEK 10.
WHAT WE CAN SEE IS WHAT'S
HAPPENING IN ECONOMY FOR A HOST
OF REASONS, NOT JUST AUTOMATION
AND GLOBALIZATION BUT THE LOSS
OF WORKER POWER AND LOSS OF
POWER IN UNIONS MEANS THAT A
LOT OF THE JOBS THAT WE ARE
CREATING ARE FUNDAMENTALLY
UNSTABLE.
SO THE POWER OF A GUARANTEED
INCOME IS THE CASH AND THE
AMOUNT ITSELF BUT ALSO KNOWING
EVERY SINGLE MONTH THAT YOU ARE
GOING TO HAVE SOME STABILITY.
SOMETHING TO FALL BACK ON.
SOMETHING THAT CAN HELP YOU
MAKE RENT.
PAY GROCERIES.
SUPPLEMENT THE REST OF YOUR
INCOME.
THERE'S A STUDY MANY OF YOU
HAVE PROBABLY SEEN.
THERE ARE TWO I WANT TO
MENTION.
ONE IS 52 PERCENT OF AMERICANS
CAN'T FIND $400 IN THE CASE OF
EMERGENCY.
WHICH IS A REMINDER THAT THIS
IS NOT JUST THE INCOME
INSTABILITY PROBLEM.
IT'S NOT JUST A PROBLEM OF
POVERTY.THE ALSO BY
DEFINITION MEANS ABOUT HALF OF
THE MIDDLE CLASS CAN'T FIND
$400 IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY.
SO THE INSTABILITY OF THE CYCLE
IS SOMETHING THAT IS PERMEATING
GREATER AND GREATER PORTION OF
OUR ECONOMY AND I THINK A
MONTHLY KIND OF SIDE WOULD
UNIQUELY SOLVE.
THE OTHER SET OF RESEARCH ON
THE POINT I THINK IS REALLY
IMPORTANT TO MENTION IS THE
WORK THAT ELDER HAVE DONE
AROUND SCARCITY.
IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE BOOK
APPROPRIATELY NAMED SCARCITY.
YOU SHOULD CHECK IT OUT.
WHAT IT SHOWS IS WHEN YOU LIVE
ON A FINANCIAL BRINK AND WHAT
YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOUR NEXT
MEAL IS GOOD TO COME FROM OR IF
YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PAY
RENT, AND HAS A VERY REAL
COGNITIVE TAX.
AISHA USES THE LANGUAGE OF A
BANDWIDTH TAX THAT MAKES IT
HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO DO
EVERYTHING ELSE.
IT'S A COLLECTION OF DOZENS OF
STUDIES THAT DOCUMENT THE
SPECIFICALLY, ONE OF MY
FAVORITE IS THE GOOD OLD MALL.
IN SUBURBAN NEW JERSEY.
THEY ASK RANDOM PEOPLE THAT
THEY SELECT, WHAT WOULD YOU DO
IF YOUR CAR BROKE DOWN AND IT
COST YOU $500 TO FIX IT?
AND PEOPLE THINK ABOUT IT AND
RESPOND AND THEY TAKE A PRETTY
SIMPLE IQ TEST.
PEOPLE WHO ARE POOR OR
MIDDLE-CLASS GENERALLY ON THE
QUESTION SCORE ABOUT THE SAME.
AS PEOPLE WHO ARE WELL OFF.
IF YOU DO THAT AGAIN THOUGH AND
AT 802 THAT, WHAT WOULD YOU DO
IN YOUR CAR BROKE DOWN AND IT
COST $5000?
26?
ASK THE EXACT SAME QUESTION.
RUN THE SAME IQ TEST.
WHAT YOU SEE IS THE PEOPLE WHO
HAVE LESS MONEY, THERE IQ
POINTS DROP BY 14.
WHICH IS ABOUT THE EQUIVALENT
OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE
PULL ALL NIGHTERS.
AS THEY WERE IN THE BOOK THE
ANALYSIS IS THAT PEOPLE CLEARLY
HAVE NOT GOTTEN DUMBER IN THE
COURSE OF THE 10 MINUTES TO RUN
THE STUDY.
IT'S ABOUT THINKING ABOUT WHAT
WOULD YOU DO.
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO
FIND THE MONEY TO BE ABLE TO
MAKE THOSE ENDS MEET
FUNDAMENTALLY PULLS PEOPLE IN A
DIRECTION WHERE THEY ARE
IMMEDIATELY DISTRACTED THINKING
ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS.
AND TAXES AND THEIR OVERALL
COGNITIVE FUNCTIONING.
THE SCARCITY IS NOT JUST A
MATTER OF AMOUNT, IT'S ALSO
ABOUT PREDICTABILITY AND BEING
ABLE TO HAVE BEFORE YOU CAN
RELY ON.
I THINK IS UNIQUELY POWERFUL.
TO PROVIDING A LITTLE BIT MORE
SECURITY TO THE PEOPLE WHO NEED
IT MOST.
>> HI CHRIS.
GREAT WORK YOU ARE DOING.
SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY
INEQUALITY AND POWER ARE
IMPORTANTLY CONNECTED NOT JUST
WITH INCOME ANY QUALITY BUT
WEALTH INEQUALITY.
IT'S NOT CLEAR HOW BASIC INCOME
CAN DEAL WITH WEALTH.
THE SECOND THING I WONDER ABOUT
IS WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE
CITIZENS THAT YOU RIGHTLY POINT
TWO FOR RESISTING BASE OF
INCOME SOLUTIONS TO POVERTY,
ONE THINGS WE HAVE TO BATTLE
AGAINST IS THAT THE POOR ARE
UNDESERVING.
I WONDER IF YOU WOULD FIND IT
USEFUL TO TALK ABOUT CORPORATE
TAX BREAKS.
CORPORATE SUBSIDIES IS ALSO A
FORM OF BASIC INCOME.
SO IT'S NOT JUST THE POOR
PEOPLE THAT ARE GETTING THE
LAMP SO TO SPEAK BUT BIG
CORPORATIONS ARE GETTING IT TO
YOU CAN DOCUMENT WAYS IN WHICH
THEY GET THAT TO HELP KIND OF
PUSHBACK AGAINST THE SUGGESTION
OF THE POOR OR UNDESERVING
BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING A
GUARANTEED INCOME.
>> Man: SO MUCH THERE.
I THINK I TOTALLY AGREE IT'S
NOT JUST INCOME ANY QUALITY.
OR INCOME DISPARITY.
IT'S WEALTH INEQUALITY AND
WEALTH DISPARITY THAT IS A HUGE
PROBLEM.
THAT'S WHY I THINK THAT SOME OF
THE CONVERSATIONS THAT HAPPEN
AROUND THINGS LIKE BABY BONDS
SHOULD BE PART OF THE GENERAL
BASIC INCOME CRANE.
IF YOU TAKE THE VALUES OF CASH
AS A UNIQUE WAY TO PROVIDE
FREEDOM AND DIGNITY TO PEOPLE
THAT'S A KIND OF VERSION THAT
IS MORE FOCUSED ON WEALTH.
THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT BABY
BONDS ARE THE IDEA IS YOU
CAPITALIZE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT
FOR EVERY CHILD BORN.
AND THAT WHEN THEY TURN 18 OR
SOME LEVEL, THEY RECEIVE A KIND
OF NEST EGG.
MAYBE $20,000.
WOULD BE $100,000.
COULD BE SMALLER.
COULD BE A SUPPOSED BIGGER.
THAT'S ONE SORT OF FLAVOR OF A
BASIC INCOME I THINK IS PAYING
MORE ATTENTION TO WEALTH
DISPARITIES.I ALSO THINK A
LOT MATTERS IN THE FINANCING.
IF YOU FINANCE A BASIC INCOME
THROUGH ANY OF THE TOOLS THAT
WE HAVE TO RAISE REVENUE THAT
ARE OUT THERE.
YOU CAN TAX CORPORATE AND DO
PROGRESSIVE INCOME TAXATION
WHICH WOULD HELP WITH WEALTH.
YOU COULD DO A WEALTH TAX.
IN THE UNITED STATES.
YOU CAN THINK ABOUT THAT AT A
STATE LEVEL.
YOU COULD THINK ABOUT IT AT A
NATIONAL LEVEL.
THERE ARE CONSTITUTIONAL
ISSUES.
BUT THERE IS EVERY REASON TO
PUT ON THE TABLE TO BE EVEN
MORE FOCUSED ON THE WEALTH
POINT.
I WILL ALSO SAY WE HAVE ALSO
THOUGHT I WORK WITH PEOPLE LIKE
THE URBAN INSTITUTE TO STUDY
OTHER WAYS TO DO A MINI VERSION
OF A WEALTH TAX?
COULD YOU CREATE A MANSION TAX
FOR INSTANCE.
THAT FUNDS AND EXPANDED THE ITC
OR BASIC INCOME.
MY POINT IS TO SAY THAT
ABSOLUTELY I THINK THE WEALTH
DISPARITY IS INCREDIBLY
PROBLEMATIC AND IF WE THINK
ABOUT THE DESIGNS OF BASIC
INCOME POLICY, WE SHOULD ALL
HAVE THAT CRITERIA IN MIND TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT DO WE THINK IS
THE BEST WAY TO PAY FOR THIS.
WHAT WE THINK IS THE BEST WAY
TO ADMINISTER IT.
ON A CORPORATION TAX BREAK, YES
I MEAN IT IS, THE TRUMP TAX
BILL IN PARTICULAR IS JUST
ASTOUNDING IN ITS VALIDATION OF
50 YEARS OF DEBUNKED ECONOMIC
THEORY.
IT HAS TRICKLED DOWN ECONOMICS.
IF YOU CUT TAXES DOWN ON ME AND
CORPORATIONS IT WILL BE GREAT
FOR GROWTH.
THAT HAS NOT BEEN TRUE.
IT'S GOING TO BE GREAT FOR
EVERYBODY.
THAT HAS NOT BEEN TRUE FOR THE
PAST 40 OR 50 YEARS.
YET WE ARE STILL DOING MORE OF
IT.
ALREADY WE ARE SEEING THAT THE
TAX BREAKS ARE NOT GOING TO THE
R&D AND THINGS THE IMMIGRATION
WOULD CLAIM.
THEY ARE GOING TO SHARE
BUYBACKS.
SHARE BUYBACKS.
DO THEY HELP PEOPLE LIKE ME?
WHO ARE DEEPLY INVESTED IN THE
STOCK MARKET.
IT WILL SURPRISE ANYONE I THINK
THAT BILL WAS FUNDAMENTALLY
MISGUIDED AND DESTRUCTIVE BRICK
AND MAKES THE CASE HARDER
BECAUSE NOW THERE'S LESS
REVENUE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
FOR WHEN THERE IS PROGRESSIVE.
I THINK THE ONE THING THOUGH
THAT SHOULD BE INSPIRATION TO
PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM.
ANYBODY WHO TELLS YOU A BASIC
INCOME IS TOO EXPENSIVE IS JUST
FLAT WRONG.
IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU ARE
STRUCTURING IT AND HOW LARGE IT
IS AND WHO IT GOES TO.
BUT WHAT I CALL FOR INSTANCE IN
A FAIR SHOT, $500 TO EVERYBODY
WHO MAKES 50 GRAMS OR LESS, IS
ROUGHLY AS EXPENSIVE AS THE
TRUMP TAX BILL.
SO IF WE CAN AFFORD TAX CUTS ON
CORPORATIONS AND THE ONE
PERCENT, THAT IS SOMETHING ALL
AMERICANS CAN AGREE WE CAN
AFFORD.
WE CAN AFFORD AN INCOME FOR
WORKING PEOPLE.
I THINK IT'S A CALL FOR US TO
THINK AS BOLDLY AND AMBITIOUSLY
ABOUT OUR IDEAS AS THOSE WHO
WANT TO CUT TAXES THINK ABOUT
THOSE.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I ALSO WANTED TO ASK YOU A
LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN INCOME AND
EQUALITY IN WEALTH AND
EQUALITY.
IN THAT THINKING ABOUT THE TAX
CODE, THE EARNINGS OR INCOME
FROM ASSETS ARE TAXED AT A
LESSER OF THE RATE COMPARED TO
INCOME FROM LET'S SAY LABOR FOR
EXAMPLE.
IF YOU SEE THERE IS A CHANCE TO
REFORM THAT AN WHEN WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT UBI?
>> I THINK WE MUST BREAK IT'S
ONE OF THE KEY WAYS WE SHOULD
PAY FOR IT BUT SPECIFICALLY
MAKING SURE THE REVENUE THAT
COMES FROM CAPITAL GAINS
INVESTMENT INCOME IS TAXED AT
THE SAME RATE AS LABOR.E
KNOW THAT IN THE LONG RUN, THE
RETURNS ON CAPITAL ARE HIGHER
THAN THE RETURNS ON LABOR RATE
THE FACT THAT WE TAX THE
CAPITAL GAINS A LOWER RATE THAN
LABOR TAXES, I DON'T THINK
MAKES ANY SENSE.
CLOSING THAT LOOPHOLE IS A KEY
WAY.
NOT JUST FOR FUNDING OF BASIC
INCOME BUT FOR FUNDING
GOVERNMENT.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
FOR TALKING AND SHARING.
MY QUESTION IS AS YOU MENTIONED
THE ECONOMIC BELONGS TO SOCIAL
CATEGORIES.
LIKE WOMEN OR PEOPLE OF COLOR.
THEY ARE MORE INFLUENCED BY
THEM.
THE STRESS OF THE POVERTY.
I AM WONDERING HOW POWERFUL
THAT UBI IS TO HELP AND SOLVE
THOSE KIND OF SITUATIONS.
WHAT WORRIES ME IS AS YOU SAY
IF UBI IS TOO EXPENSIVE TO BE
GIVEN TO EVERYONE SO MAYBE THEY
ARE JUST GIVEN TO SOME OF THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE COMMITTED BUT IF
WE ARE NOT CHALLENGING SOME OF
THEM, ÃWHEN WILL THIS
REINFORCE THE MARK AGAINST
WOMEN OR PEOPLE OF COLOR?
THAT IS SOMETHING I WORRY
ABOUT.
>> Man: I THINK WE ALL SHOULD
WORRY ABOUT THAT.
I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG,
I WON'T CALL IT A FAULT LINE,
BUT THERE ARE TWO CATEGORIES OF
WAYS TO STRUCTURE BASIC INCOME.
ONE THAT IS TARGETED AND YOU
CAN CALL THE NEGATIVE INCOME
TAX AND EXPANDED EARNED INCOME
TAX CREDIT.
IN THE POSITIVE IF THAT IS THE
PEOPLE WHO NEED THE MONEY THE
MOST TO GET IT.
THE NEGATIVE IS THE CONCERN
THAT YOU ARE ARTICULATING.
THAT IT PLAYS INTO AN EXISTING
WELFARE FRAME.
THE SECOND WAY CONCEPTUALLY, TO
STRUCTURE BASIC INCOME IS THE
DIVIDEND MODEL.
THIS IS THE PERMANENT FUND
WHERE YOU CAPITALIZE IT THROUGH
SOME KIND OF TAX ON CARBON,
DATA, YOU NAME IT.
EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME AMOUNT.
THE UPSIDE BEING AND I HAVE
VERY MUCH SEEN IN FOCUS GROUPS
AND PUBLIC GROUPS, THAT
CONCEPTUALLY IS A TOTALLY
DIFFERENT FRAME FOR A VOTER
RIGHT.
THAT IS WE ALL ON THIS AND ALL
GET OUR SHARE.
IT'S ALMOST MAGICAL SOMETIMES
BECAUSE YOU ESCAPE THE HARD
WORK OF WHO DESERVES AND WHO
DOESN'T.
OF COURSE THE DOWNSIDE IS AS
SOON AS IT BECOMES UNIVERSAL
YOU HAVE BILL GATES GETTING IT.
EVEN IF YOU TAX IT BACK AT
MARGINAL RATES, YOU LOOK AT THE
DISTRIBUTION CURVES AND IT
HELPS A LOT OF MIDDLE-CLASS
PEOPLE PARTICULARLY, PEOPLE WHO
WOULD BE BETTER SERVED AND
BETTER TARGETED MORE CLOSELY.
THAT'S A CLEAR DOWNSIDE OF IT.
I WOULD LOVE TO BREAK OUT OF
THAT DICHOTOMY.
I JUST OFFERED IT BECAUSE IT'S
THE CONCEPTUAL FRAME I USE BUT
I ALSO THINK THAT THE WORK THAT
CAN BE DONE IN ROOMS LIKE THIS
ONE IS TO COME UP WITH STILL
OTHER WAYS OF THINKING ABOUT
HOW TO DO THIS.
>> I THINK WE SHOULD TRY BOTH.
WE ARE IN AN EXPERIMENTAL
MOMENT WITH THIS IDEA.
LET'S NOT BE STRAITJACKETED BY
ONE CONCEPT.
LET'S EXPERIMENT WITH BOTH.
LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW DATA IS
EVIDENT MY WORK AT THE SAME
TIME WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A
NEGATIVE INCOME TAX.
THE REST OF THE WORLD IS GOING
TO HEAR THOSE AS BEING MORE OR
LESS THE SAME SO WE MAY AS WELL
EMBRACE THAT DEBATE AND WRITE
THOSE PAPERS.
DO THOSE EXPERIMENTS TO FIGURE
OUT TO MOVE THE BALL FORWARD AS
A COMMUNITY.
>> AT A TIME WHEN EVERYONE IS
COMING TO A DEEP REALIZATION IN
EDUCATION IS THE KEY TO YOUR
CHILD'S FUTURE.
EDUCATION AND HIGHER EDUCATION
BECOMES HARDER AND HARDER TO
ACCESS.
YOU COULD SAY IT'S AN
UNSUSTAINABLE MODEL.
YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THE
OUT-OF-STATE STUDENTS AND
AFFORD STUDENTS THAT ARE
RECRUITED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF
MICHIGAN THAT GET A PICTURE ON
THAT.
BUT ONE THING I THINK THAT IS
INTERESTING IS BOTH THE POVERTY
SOLUTIONS AND OR WASH YOU AND
MISSOURI, THERE ARE 6 TO 7
TIMES GREATER LIKELIHOOD OF A
CHILD GOING TO COLLEGE IF THEY
HAVE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT.
THE SIZE OF THE SAVINGS ACCOUNT
IS LESS IMPORTANT THAN A FACT
OF IT.
I AM WORKING THAT NOW BUT THE
IDEA OF MY CHILD WILL HAVE A
FUTURE AS A VERY POWERFUL PART
OF THE CULTURE OF THIS COUNTRY.
JUST AS THE OBSERVING
17TH-CENTURY.
THAT'S BEEN DEEP.
87 PERCENT OF PEOPLE CAME HERE
IN 17TH-CENTURY.
BUT RIGHT NOW I THINK MAKING
EDUCATION OPPORTUNITY AVAILABLE
TO THE LOW INCOME POPULATION IS
A PIECE OF THE WHOLE EQUATION
PRINT.
>> I THINK THAT'S A REALLY
IMPORTANT STEP TO HIGHLIGHT.
WE CAN AND MUST TALK ABOUT
STUDENT DEBT CRISIS COST OF
COLLEGE.
ABSOLUTELY.
WE SHOULD ALSO TALK ABOUT, I'M
NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE STUDY,
BUT IT SEEMS CONSISTENT WITH
SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS I AM
FAMILIAR WITH.
IF STUDENTS HAVE A SAVINGS
ACCOUNT, THEY ARE MORE LIKELY
TO GO TO COLLEGE.
I THINK THEY ARE NOT MORE
LIKELY TO GO TO COLLEGE, BUT
MORE LIKELY TO EXPERIMENT.
TO BE OPEN TO DIFFERENT WAYS IN
DESIGN THEIR OWN LIVES.
I'M THE FACEBOOK COFOUNDER WHO
DID NOT DROP OUT OF COLLEGE.
PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS WHY DIDN'T
YOU, THE MARK AND DUSTIN WERE
DOING IT.
WHY DID YOU STAY IN.
I HAD FINANCIAL AID.
NO ONE HAD EVER GONE TO COLLEGE
LIKE HARVARD.
I DO NOT HAVE A BIG ÃTHERE WAS
NO HAMMOCK OR WHATEVER.
THERE IS NO SAFETY NET.
THE IDEA THAT THIS IS DIFFERENT
THAN YOUR QUESTION.
I THINK IT IS SIMILAR IN THAT
THE RISK PROFILE WHEN YOU HAVE
NO FOUNDATION, WHEN YOU HAVE NO
SAVINGS, YOU ARE BY DEFINITION
MUST LESS LIKELY TO THINK ABOUT
WELL CAN I GO TO COLLEGE?
SHOULD I GO TO COLLEGE BECAUSE
YOU ARE JUST FOCUSED ON PAYING
THE BILLS.
I THINK THE KEY THOUGH IN ROOMS
LIKE THIS ONE IS NOT TO SET
THIS UP AS EITHER WE TAKE ON
STUDENT DEBT CRISIS OR TAKE ON
THE RUSSELL BASIC ASSETS.
OR UNIVERSAL SAVINGS OR
UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME.
I THINK WE HAVE TO DO BOTH
BECAUSE WE COULD SOLVE THE DEBT
CRISIS BUT STILL HAVE A LOT OF
AMERICANS WHO ARE TOO POOR WHO
DON'T HAVE A SECURITY TO THEN
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ÃOR SOLVE A
SECURITY BUT IF COLLEGE IS
UNAFFORDABLE THAT DOESN'T WORK
EITHER.
I THINK IT HAS TO BE AN AND NOT
IN ORDER.
>>.
[ MAN ASKING QUESTION ]
>> I THINK WE HAVE TIME FOR A
COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS.
>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR
PRESENTATION.
MY MOM IS A CASHIER AT WALMART
IN KANSAS.
READING THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
I SEE THE TRUMP TAX CUT
SUPPOSEDLY LED TO THESE GREAT
BONUSES BUT THEN WHEN YOU DIG A
LITTLE DEEPER A LOT OF THEIR
SAM'S STORES WERE CLOSED.
MY MOM STILL FACES THE CONSTANT
THREAT OF BEING FIRED FOR
RATHER ARBITRARY REASONS.
CAN'T SIT DOWN EVEN THOUGH SHE
IS AN OLDER WOMAN.
HOW DO YOU VIEW CORPORATE
SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY IN AN AGE
WHEN A LOT OF THOSE JOBS ARE
GOING TO BE SHED?
I AM SPEAKING MOSTLY ABOUT
CORPORATIONS LIKE AMAZON OR
WALMART AS COMPARED TO THE
SILICON VALLEY FOLKS.
KIND OF BRAGGING THEMSELVES UP
IN THE ROLE THEY WILL PLAY IN
AUTOMATION.
WHAT SHOULD THEY DO AND DO YOU
FORESEE THEM SUPPORTING
UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME?
>> Man: THE SCENARIO I'M
THINKING A LOT ABOUT THESE DAYS
AND READING ABOUT AND TRYING TO
TALK TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS I
CAN, BOTH EXPERTS, ECONOMISTS
AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND YOUR
MOM.
I THINK CORPORATE SOCIAL
RESPONSIBILITY IS HARD TO ARGUE
WITH THAT BUT I THINK TOO OFTEN
IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF DRESSING
UP THE PROBLEM.
I THINK FUNDAMENTALLY WE DON'T
HAVE A COMPETITIVE LABOR MARKET
AND MANY SMALL TOWNS ACROSS
AMERICA BECAUSE OF WALMART.
SO NOT ONLY IS IT NOT POSSIBLE
AS WORKER POWER, SO THERE'S NO
WAY TO ORGANIZE FOR BETTER
RIGHTS, BUT THERE ARE IN MANY
CASES VERY FEW ALTERNATIVES TO
GO FOR COMPETITIVE WAGES.
THE CLASSIC ECONOMIC THEORY
WOULD BE LIKE IF THE PLACE
ISN'T PAIN ENOUGH THEN YOU GO
ELSEWHERE.
IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED YOU GET
IT.
THERE IS ONE EMPLOYER IN TOWN
THEN IT IS NOT TRUE.
THERE WAS A GREAT PAPER, A LOT
OF WRITINGS ABOUT THE NAZI
POWER AND ITS EFFECTS ON THE
LABOR MARKET RECENTLY.
THE ROOSEVELT INSTITUTE
MARSHALL STEIN BOUND WHO IS THE
CHIEF ECONOMIST, PUT OUT A
FANTASTIC ONE MAYBE TWO MONTHS
AGO.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO
READ IT HERE.
I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS I
THINK WE HAVE TO RETHINK
ANTITRUST POLICY IN THE UNITED
STATES.
TO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE THE
COMPETITIVE DYNAMICS.
NOT ONLY IN RETAIL BUT IN
HEALTHCARE AND FINANCE AND
CONSUMER GOODS IN SEVERAL
DIFFERENT SECTORS.
THE CORPORATE SOCIAL
RESPONSIBILITY IS LIKE SURE
IT'S NICE THAT WALMART IS
BUYING MORE ORGANIC FOOD BUT
YOU KNOW.
IT PAPERS OVER THE INCREDIBLE
MONOPOLY KIND OF POWER THEY
HAVE.
THE GOOD NEWS IS THOSE KINDS OF
POLICY CHANGES IN A WORLD WHERE
ON THE LEFT WE HAVE LESS
REVENUE TO WORK WITH AND A
PROPOSED TRUMP TAX CUT
ENVIRONMENT, FORTUNATELY THOUGH
STILL COST MONEY.
IT'S ACTIVE ENFORCEMENT OF THE
RULES THAT WE HAVE ON THE
BOOKS.
A DIFFERENT FTC COULD DO.
I'M HOPEFUL WE PAY MORE
ATTENTION TO THIS AT THE SAME
TIME.
THE REASON I GET DOVETAILS WITH
A LOT OF THE UBI CONVERSATIONS
IS BECAUSE I MORE COMPETITIVE
ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE CAN RISE
GET MORE CASH.
IN PEOPLE'S POCKETS.
IT'S NOT EXACTLY $500 A MONTH
AND ALL THE STABILITY.
THAT'S WHY I THINK OF THESE
THINGS AS A CONSOLATION THAT GO
TOGETHER.
THEY MUST IN MY VIEW ALL DUCK
TAIL.
WE MUST GO TOGETHER.
>> ONE MORE QUESTION.
>> HI.
SO I AM A PERSON WHO RECEIVES A
BASIC INCOME CASH TYPE MONTHLY.
THROUGH MY APOLLO MINIONS.
THERE'S A LOT OF TRIBES WHO ARE
DOING THIS THROUGH CAPITAL
PAYMENTS.
I WAS WONDERING WHAT YOU THINK
THE INDIGENOUS EXPERIENCE IN
ALL THIS PLACE IN THE RESEARCH
GOING FORWARD?
>> DO YOU MIND IF I ASK WHERE
ARE YOU FROM?
WHAT TRIBE?
>> SOUTHWEST MICHIGAN.
POTTAWATOMIE.
>> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT ONE.
I'M TEMPTED SHOW THE QUESTION
BACK ON YOU BUT I WILL TRY TO
ANSWER FIRST AND IF YOU WANT TO
WEIGH IN ON HOW YOU THINK ABOUT
IT I'M CURIOUS.
THE RESEARCH, THERE ARE A LOT
OF NATIVE AMERICANS WHO CREATE
A SOCIAL DIVIDEND STRUCTURES.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR FAMILY IS
FROM.
THERE ARE SEVERAL IN ALASKA
WITH A SUPPLEMENT THE DIVIDEND.
THE BIGGEST ONE IS IN NORTH
CAROLINA.
THE EASTERN BAND OF CHEROKEE
FOR DECADES HAVE PROVIDED A
BASIC INCOME TO THOUSANDS OF
PEOPLE.
IT'S FROM THE SETTING YOU SEE
SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING
RESEARCH COMING OUT IMPROVED
HEALTH AND EDUCATION OUTCOMES
AND YOU SEE IT LASTING NOW, I
THINK DOCTOR COSTELLO AT DUKE
HAS NOW A 20 YEAR TIME HORIZON
ON IT.
YOU STILL SEE PEOPLE AND KIDS
WHO ARE IN THEIR TEENS AND
THEIR FAMILIES STARTED GETTING
IT 20 YEARS LATER HAVING LOWER
PRIME RATES.
HAVING RATES OF ALCOHOLISM AND
MENTAL HEALTH.
I THINK IT'S A REALLY
ENCOURAGING DATASET FROM A
SOCIAL SCIENCE PERSPECTIVE.
HOWEVER, TELLING THE STORIES OF
IT IS AS IMPORTANT. SHOULD
SAY YOU TALK TO PEOPLE AND I'M
CURIOUS AGAIN WHAT YOUR
EXPERIENCE IS LIKE, YOU HEAR
SOME REALLY EXPIRING ANTIDOTES
OF FAMILIES SAVING US MONEY
GOING TO COLLEGE.
YOU HEAR ABOUT PEOPLE THAT ARE
SKEPTICAL TO.
I THINK THAT BOTH THE GOOD AND
THE BAD, THERE IS A LOT TO
LEARN FROM HOW THOSE PROGRAMS
HAVE STRUCTURED.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE
ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD ABOUT
YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE.
>> WHAT I'VE NOTICED MOST THAT
CONCERNS PEOPLE HAVE IS NOT
AROUND THE INCOME NECESSARILY
ITSELF BUT THE POLITICS AND
EVERYTHING THAT GOES ALONG WITH
WHETHER REVENUE IS SOURCED.
SO WHERE I'M COMING FROM PEOPLE
AREN'T BUYING INTO BASIC INCOME
NECESSARILY.AT LEAST NOT
EVERYONE?
>> RIGHT.
THANK YOU GUYS.
[APPLAUSE]
>> THANK YOU CHRIS FOR GETTING
US STARTED.
I AM GOING TO ASK OUR PANELISTS
TO COME UP AND WE ARE GOING TO
START IN.
I KNOW THIS IS A COUPLE
SESSIONS.
COME ON UP.
DYLAN, MICHAEL, SAM, OLGA AND
SHOLOM.
I KNOW THIS IS A COUPLE
SESSIONS.
WE ARE GOING FOR A LONG.
NOW PRINT AFTER THE SESSION WE
ARE GOING TO MOVE INTO SOME
SMALL GROUP DISCUSSIONS.
IF YOU NEED A QUICK BREAK JUST
GO FOR IT AND COME RIGHT BACK.
SO THIS IS WHERE WE REALLY
START TO GET INTO THE QUESTIONS
OF BRINGING THE CONVERSATION
THAT WE WILL TAKE UP THE NEXT
FEW DAYS.
WHAT ARE THE MOST PRESSING
QUESTIONS THAT WE NEED TO
ANSWER.
WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST
OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THAT.
DYLAN MATTHEWS FROM FOX, I AM
TOLD IT'S PRONOUNCED WITH AV
HAS BEEN KIND ENOUGH TO OFFER
TO FACILITATE THE PANEL.
I WILL TURN IT OVER TO DYLAN
BRENNAN.
>> THANK YOU LUKE.
THANK YOU CHRIS.
I WANT TO REFUTE LUKE'S
SUGGESTIONS BUT IF YOU WANT TO
COME UP AND HAVE A MORE
ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATION.
IF WE ALL DO IT.
IT WILL BE GREAT.
[LAUGHTER]
WE HAVE A GREAT PANEL HERE.
WE HAVE AN ECONOMIST.
A SOCIOLOGIST BY TRADE.
A PHILOSOPHY BY TRADE AND
POLITICAL THEORIST BY TRADE.
OLGA WHO SHOULD JOIN US
SHORTLY.
WE ARE FOCUSING ON TWO MAIN
QUESTIONS ON THE PANEL.
THE FIRST IS WHAT QUESTIONS
REMAIN OUTSTANDING IN THINKING
ABOUT BASIC INCOME STRATEGY AND
WERE ADVOCATES OF CASH GO FROM
HERE.
WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT.
THERE'S A SENSE OF LITERATURE
ON THE CASH TRANSFERS AS MANY
PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM CAN TELL
YOU.
MANY PEOPLE HAVE CONTRIBUTED
TO.
BUT THERE IS A LOT OF QUESTIONS
OUTSTANDING.
AROUND POLITICAL STRATEGY,
COSTS OF DETAILS.
AND SO WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO
DIG INTO THAT.
WE ARE ALSO GOING TO BE TALKING
A BIT ABOUT HOW YOUNGER
SCHOLARS WILL LEAN ON THEM AND
OLGA FROM THE STANFORD BASIC
INCOME LAB CAN CAN CONTRIBUTE
TO THE.
AND WHAT KIND OF RESEARCH
PRIORITIES THEY CAN MAKE TO
ADVANCE OUR UNDERSTANDING OF
THAT.
WHEN WE START WITH YOU OLGA,
CAN YOU TELL US A BIT ABOUT THE
STANFORD BASIC INCOME LAB AND
WHAT YOUR MISSION IS AND TELL
US A BIT ABOUT YOUR PROJECT
WITHIN THAT?
>> Woman: THE LAB WAS STARTED
BY PROFESSOR G AND STANFORD.
IT STARTED IN FEBRUARY 2017 SO
ABOUT A YEAR AND HALF AGO.
THE BIGGEST MISSION WITHIN THE
CONTEXT IS TO PROVIDE A
PLATFORM OF RECESS AND
DISCUSSION AMONG STUDENTS AND
PROFESSORS.
WE HAVE SEVERAL SEMINARS OF
BASIC INCOME WHICH IS HOW I GOT
INTERESTED IN THE POLICY IN THE
FIRST PLACE.
WE ALSO STARTED WORKING ON AN
ONLINE VISUAL MAP AND
INTERACTIVE MAP THAT WILL BE A
DATABASE FOR A VARIETY OF
ESTATE OF RESEARCH OF BASIC
INCOME FROM DIFFERENT
PERSPECTIVES.
IT WILL TRY TO CATEGORIZE THE
SESSION ON BASIC INCOME INTO
DIFFERENT THEMES AND SUBTHEMES
SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A HOLISTIC
PICTURE OF WHAT IS THE CURRENCY
RESEARCH, RATE AND ALSO THE
GAPS AND EXPERIMENTS ARE.
THERE ARE FIVE PEOPLE INVOLVED
IN THE HELAB.
>> MICHAEL LEWIS IS HEAR WHO IS
A SOCIOLOGIST AND HUNTER
COLLEGE IN ONE OF THE FOUNDERS
OF U.S. BIG ONE OF THE MAJOR
ACTIVISTS IN THE ACADEMIC
ORGANIZATIONS ON THIS PARADE
HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY YOU HAVE
BEEN WORKING IN THE BASIC
INCOME WORLD?
[LAUGHTER]
HOW HAS IT CHANGED?
>> Man: I THINK SINCE THE LATE
90S. SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
A LITTLE WHILE.
HOW IS IT CHANGED?
I GET THIS QUESTION A LOT
OBVIOUSLY.
I ALWAYS ANSWER THE SAME WAY.
THERE'S A LOT MORE DISCUSSION
ABOUT IT NOW.
THEN THERE WAS THEN BURIED
DOMINIC.
THAT'S ONE HUGE DIFFERENCE.
ANOTHER DIFFERENCE AND I GUESS
I ATTRIBUTE THIS TO THE ROLE OF
THE INTERNET MAYBE IN THE WORLD
TODAY, THE DISCUSSION IS A LOT
LESS ACADEMIC.
THAN IT USED TO BE.
WHEN I FIRST STARTED, THERE
WASN'T AS MUCH.
I KNEW MOST OF THE PEOPLE
TALKING ABOUT IT AND MOST OF
THEM WERE EITHER PHILOSOPHERS
OR ECONOMISTS.
THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH THE WAY
THINGS LOOKED IN THE 90s OR
EARLY 2000'S.
IT'S STILL GOES ON.
BUT IT'S A LOT BROADER.
THAT USED TO BE.
THOSE ARE THE MAIN DIFFERENCES.
MUCH MORE DISCUSSION ABOUT IT
IS MUCH BROADER.
I GUESS ONE OTHER DIFFERENCE IS
TIED TO THE SECOND.
THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT MORE
ATTENTION TO THE AUTOMATION
ARGUMENTS ABOUT INCOME.
THERE SEEMS TO BE, AT LEAST IN
THE U.S., THERE SEEMS TO BE THE
ARGUMENT I HEAR MOST ABOUT.
RECENTLY IN THIS COUNTRY.
THE MAIN THREE DIFFERENCES ARE
THOSE.
FINALLY WE HAVE SAM HAMMETT WHO
IS A POLICY ANALYST AT EAST
CAMDEN CENTER.
SAM IS KNOWN IN THIS ROOM FOR
TALKING REGULARLY.
[AUDIO LOST]
>> Man: PERSONALLY PRIOR TO
WORKING AND POLITY WELFARE I
WORKED IN TECHNOLOGY POLICY.
THAT IS SORT OF MY
INTRODUCTION.
I DID A LOT OF WELFARE WORK
BACK IN CANADA.
A LOT OF PEOPLE GET INTO THE
AUTOMATION AND SAYING THIS IS A
RESPONSE TO ROBOTS TAKING JOBS.
I AM SORT OF IN REVERSE IN A
SENSE THAT SPEAKING TO THE
ISSUES OF INSTABILITY AND
THINGS LIKE THAT THAT CHRIS
BROUGHT UP, IF THOSE AREN'T
PROPERLY ADDRESSED WE WILL
NEVER GET TO THE STATE OF
ROBOTS TAKING OUR JOBS BECAUSE
THERE WILL BE A REACTION AND
BACKLASHES BEFORE THE TAKES
PLACE.
I FEEL LIKE THERE IS A SENSE TO
USE TECHNOLOGY POLICY BECAUSE
I'M TRIED TO ACCELERATE THE
TECHNOLOGY.
>> THE LAST PERSON WHO DESERVES
A FORMAL INTRODUCTION IS SHOLOM
WHO IS A POLITICAL THEORIST BY
TRADE ALSO WORKING IN THE BASIC
INCOME LAB.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOUR
BACKGROUND IS ANCIENT GREEK
POLITICAL THEORY RIGHT?
>> Man: WOULDN'T CALL IT MY
BACKGROUND BUT THAT IS THE
STUDY I AM IN.
I HOPE TO HAVE MORE TRAINING OF
THIS IN THE COMING YEARS.
BUT YES MY RESEARCH IS NOT
DIRECTLY ON BASIC INCOME.
DO YOU SEE ANY PARALLELS?
>> Man: I NEVER THOUGHT OF
THIS.
I DO SEE A NUMBER OF PARALLELS.
IF YOU THINK OF ANCIENT GREEK
TO SEE A NUMBER OF PERIODS
ESPECIALLY IN ATHENS AND SPARTA
WHERE YOU SEE THAT A LOT OF
ECONOMIC TENSIONS BETWEEN THE
POOR AND THE WEALTHY LEADS TO A
MAJOR SHIFT IN POLITICS.
SOME OF THESE REFORMS HAVE A
LOT TO DO WITH REDISTRIBUTION
OF PROPERTY.
I DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIFIC THING
IN MIND THAT IS BASIC INCOME.
[I NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS
MORE.
THAT IS INTERESTING.
>> NOW THAT WE KNOW WHO
EVERYONE IS, LET'S TURN TO
QUESTION ONE.
WHAT IS IT THAT WE DON'T KNOW
ABOUT BASIC INCOME THAT WE NEED
TO KNOW BOTH TO GET THE POLICY
RIGHT AND TO GET THE STRATEGY
RIGHT IF WE DECIDED WE NEED
MORE CASH PROGRAMS AND WANT TO
PURSUE THIS STRATEGY?
WHY DON'T WE GO DOWN THE LINE
START WITH SAM.
AND HAVE EACH OF YOU GIVE YOUR
TAKE.
>> WE CAN LEARN A LOT FROM
BASIC INCOME EXPERIENCE.
THERE'S A LOT THAT WE CAN'T
KNOW UNTIL WE HAVE SOMETHING.
IN ECONOMICS WE CALL IT GENERAL
EQUILIBRIUM EFFECTS.
WE HAVE A STUDY THAT LOOKS AT
NARROWLY WITHIN A COHORT IN
SEATTLE WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR
LABOR SUPPLY OR HOW THEY SPEND
THE MONEY.
BUT TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT WILL
AFFECT THE MACROECONOMY, YOU
CAN'T DO THAT IN A SUBSET OF A
CITY BECAUSE THE MONEY WILL
LEAK OUT.
IT'S NOT A SELF-CONTAINED
CURRENCY ZONE.
THERE'S A BUNCH OF STUFF WE
WILL NOT KNOW UNTIL WE DO IT.
AND STUFF IS SIGNIFICANT.
POTENTIALLY VERY SIGNIFICANT.
THAT'S ONE THING.
THE SECOND THING IS THE
DURABILITY OF THE PROGRAM.
IT'S ONE THING TO TEST THE
PROGRAM.
IT'S MERITS.
WE DON'T LIVE IN A TECHNOCRATIC
UTOPIA WHERE THE PHILOSOPHER
KINGS THE RIGHT POLICIES.
WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY AND HOW
THAT PLAYS OUT IS SECONDARY TO
ITS OPTIMAL OR WHAT THE STUDY
FINDS.
>> MICHAEL?
>> LOOKING AT THE THIS, A LOT
OF THE FOLKS WHO ADVOCATE BASIC
INCOME AND CERTAIN CLAIMS ABOUT
WHAT IT WOULD DO.
IF WE EVER GOT ONE.
IF THERE WAS SOME WAY AND THEIR
EXPERIMENTS, I THINK YOU ARE
RIGHT, IF THERE WAS SOMEWHERE
IN THE EXPERIMENTS TO FOCUS ON
THE CERTAIN QUESTIONS I WOULD
FOCUS ON THESE.
ONE QUESTION IS HOW WOULD A
BASIC INCOME AFFECT HOW
EMPLOYEES INTERACT?
I RAISE THAT BECAUSE ONE OF THE
CLAIMS THAT SUPPORTERS HAVE
MADE IS IT WOULD GIVE WORKERS
MORE BARGAINING POWER.
IT WOULD IMPROVE CONDITIONS AT
WORK.
WAGES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
PRESUMING THAT WOULD COME
THROUGH BY WAY OF INTERACTIONS
WITH EMPLOYEES AND IF THERE'S
SOME WAY WE CAN LOOK AT THAT I
WOULD FIND THAT INTERESTING.
THAT'S ONE DIRECTION.
ANOTHER QUESTION IS ALSO IN THE
WORK AREA.
THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT
THE IMPACT OF BASIC INCOME ON
LABOR SUPPLY AND WOULD IT
REDUCE IT.
THAT IS WARRANTED.
THAT MAKES SENSE.
BUT THE OTHER QUESTION I THINK
WOULD BE INTERESTING IS LET'S
SAY PEOPLE DO WORK LESS.
HOW DO THEY SPEND THEIR TIME?
IF THEY WORK LESS.
ANOTHER CLAIM I'VE HEARD IS
THAT A BASIC INCOME WOULD FREE
PEOPLE UP FROM HAVING TO WORK
AND THAT'S A LABOR SUPPLY
ISSUE.
BUT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT DO THINGS
THEY THINK IS PROBLEMATIC.
BUT THEY MIGHT BECOME MORE
SLICKLY INVOLVED.
THEY MIGHT TAKE CARE OF THEIR
KIDS MORE THAN I CAN NOW
BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING TOO
MUCH.
HOW WOULD PEOPLE SPEND THEIR
TIME IF THEY DID HAVE MORE
TIME?
WHAT WOULD THEY DO?
AND THE THIRD QUESTION INSPIRED
BY HAVING READ CHRIS'S BOOK
RECENTLY, HAS TO DO WITH HOW
DOES THE BROADER PUBLIC
UNDERSTAND THE WORK?
DO THEY THINK THAT WORK IS JUST
WAGE LABOR?
DO THEY THINK THERE ARE SOME
AREAS OF WORK THAT ARE NOT WAGE
LABOR?
HOW FAR WOULD THEY EXPAND THAT
DEFINITION?
WHAT CONSTITUTES WORK TO THE
GENERAL PUBLIC?
IF YOU READ CHRIS'S BOOK YOU
WILL KNOW THAT QUESTION IS
COMING FROM.
THERE'S MORE BUT THOSE ARE
THREE.
I'M TALKING TOO MUCH.
>> I THINK MY QUESTIONS ARE
VERY MUCH IN LINE WITH YOUR
QUESTIONS MICHAEL.
THESE ARE THINGS I'M PERSONALLY
CONCERNED WITH.
THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT WORK.
WHAT IS A MEANINGFUL LIFE.
THE FIRST QUESTION IS VERY MUCH
ATHE SAME.
WHAT WILL PEOPLE DO WHEN THEY
ARE GIVEN CASH?
YOU GIVE PEOPLE FREE CASH AND
THEY WILL JUST STOP WORKING.
THEY WILL BE LAZY.
I THINK THIS CONCEPTION IS
SOMETHING THAT COMES UP FROM
BARELY DEEPLY ENTRENCHED
IDEOLOGY.
A VERY WEIRD CONCEPTION OF
HUMAN BEINGS IS SOMETHING THAT
IS COMPLETELY SELFISH WHICH
MEANS WE HAVE TO BE VERY MUCH
CONCERNED WITH THE PROBLEM OF
FREE) I THINK ONE OF THE
BIGGEST QUESTIONS WE HAVE NOW
IS OUR PEOPLE REALLY LIKE THIS
OR IS THIS A SYSTEM THAT CAUSED
US TO ACT IN A CERTAIN WAY OR
TO REWARD CERTAIN ACTIONS.
I THINK THIS IS DEFINITELY ONE
OF THE BIGGEST QUESTIONS THAT I
HAVE IN MIND.
VERY MUCH RELATED TO THIS IS A
QUESTION OF WHAT ROLE SHOULD A
PAID LABOR HAVE IN THE
CONCEPTUAL LIFE.
CURRENTLY IT SEEMS THAT NOT
ONLY DO WE HAVE TO WORK IN
ORDER TO HAVE OUR BASIC KIND OF
NECESSITIES OF LIFE SUPPLIED
BUT WE ALSO ARE STRONGLY
CONNECTED TO HER SENSE OF SELF
IDENTITY AND SELF WORTH.
I THINK ONE OF THE GREATEST
QUESTIONS HERE IS IS THIS HOW
WE WANT TO THINK ABOUT WORK OR
SHOULD WE THINK ABOUT WORK AS
SOMETHING IS COMPLETELY LIMITED
TO PAID LABOR TEMPERATURES THIS
IS VERY MUCH IN LINE WITH WHAT
YOU JUST SAID.
GIVEN FREE CASH MAYBE PEOPLE
WOULD BE ABLE TO FULFILL A MUCH
BROADER POTENTIAL OF HUMAN
ACTIONS.
FINALLY THIS IS SOMETHING VERY
MUCH IN LINE WITH CHRIS'S
COMMENTS ON POWER AND
SELF-ACTUALIZATION.HIS IS
THE IDEA OF FREEDOM.
THE FREEDOM THAT WE AS A
SOCIETY WANT TO BE COMMITTED T
.
GIVEN THOSE IDEAS OF WORK AND
LABOR AND MEANINGFUL LIFE, WE
CAN MAYBE RETHINK OUR
CONCEPTION OF FREEDOM AND MOVE
TO IDEAS OF FREEDOM AS
EMPOWERMENT.
FREEDOM TO DO THINGS.
FREEDOM TO ACT.
FREEDOM TO CREATE YOUR OWN
IDENTITY AND OWN SENSE OF SELF
THAT IS OUTSIDE OF WHAT WE NOW
VALUE AS SOMETHING THAT IS
MEANINGFUL.
>> THANK YOU.
FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AS A
PHILOSOPHER FROM COLUMBUS, I
THINK ONE OF THE MAIN QUESTIONS
PERTAINING TO THE EMPIRICAL
RECESSION BASIC INCOME.
I THINK OFTEN WE HAVE IMPORTANT
INTERESTING THE DISPUTES AMONG
PEOPLE WHO DISCUSS UBI
PERSPECTIVE.
IT REFLECTS SETTING UP
EXPERIMENTS AND WE MIGHT SEE
THESE DISPUTES AS OPPORTUNITIES
FOR DESIGNING FUTURE
EXPERIMENTS.
TRANSFER PILOT PROGRAMS THAT
COULD ADDRESS THESE COMPLEX AND
MAYBE YIELD MORE RESULTS.
OR SOLUTIONS.
MORE COMPLETELY I WOULD HOPE TO
SEE SOME EXAMPLES.
WHEN I STARTED RESEARCHING, UBI
FROM THE PHYSICAL PERSPECTIVE I
STARTED WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS
MOST OF INTEREST TO ME WHICH
WAS CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND HOW
UBI CAN HOPEFULLY FAR BETTER
THE JUSTICE AND HOW IT CAN
CONTRIBUTE THE WAY WE THINK AND
VALUE OUR WORK.
WHICH IS MOSTLY WHAT WOMEN DO
AS OPPOSED TO MEN WITHIN THE
HOUSEHOLD.
TO GIVE YOU CONTEXT AS PEOPLE
KNOW, WOMEN OFTEN DO MUCH MORE
DOMESTIC WORK FOR CHILDREN OF
THE ELDERLY THAN MEN.
OFTEN SOMETIMES THEY DO THIS
BECAUSE IT IS THEIR PREFERENCE.
FOR EXAMPLE BECAUSE MEN WANT
THEM TO BECOME HOUSE HUSBAND IN
THE LABOR MARKET FAVORS MEN.
AN MEN'S LIFESTYLE.
KNYOUR SECOND QUESTION
WHETHER THE UPI CAN LIFT THEIR
SOCIAL VALUE AND THE APPEARANCE
OF CARE WORK AND CONSEQUENTLY
WHETHER CARE WORK CAN
CONTRIBUTE TO A BETTER OR MORE
FAIR DIVISION OF CARE WORK
AMONG THE GENDERS WITHIN THE
HOUSEHOLD.
I THINK WHY THERE HAS BEEN THE
THEORISTS AND PHILOSOPHERS IS
THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY AND THE POWER TO
EMPOWER WOMEN ECONOMICALLY
WITHIN THE HOUSEHOLD AND ALSO
IMPROVE OUR PERCEPTION OF CARE
WORK.
DIFFERENT THINKERS ARGUE
AGAINST WHETHER IT WILL
CONTRIBUTE TO THE DIVISION OF
CARE WORK WITHIN A HOUSEHOLD.
THE UNIVERSAL CARETAKER MODEL.
OR WILL UBI PRODUCTION
INCENTIVIZE WOMEN IN THE CARE
WORK.
[ DISCERNIBLE ] WITH
EXPERIMENTS OF THOSE WE FOCUS
ON PRINT IMPORTANT TO USE THIS
INTERESTS CONFLICT
PHILOSOPHICALLY TO INFORM AND
THINKING HOW THE DESIGN WILL
WORK SHIFT THE FOCUS OR TAKE
INTO ACCOUNT THIS QUESTION AND
BE ABLE TO SEE.
THANKS.
>> THERE'S A LONG LIST OF
QUESTIONS.
A LOT OF THINGS TO ANSWER.
REALISTICALLY A LOT OF THESE
QUESTIONS ARE THINGS WE CAN TRY
TO STUDY NOT CONCLUSIVELY BUT
WITH LOCALIZED TRIALS.
ONTARIO IS STILL ONGOING.
THE TRAILS ARE STILL ONGOING.
MICHAEL AS SOME OF YOU WHO HAS
WATCHED THIS LITERATURE EVOLVE
FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS OR SO AND
ALSO SOMEONE WHO SPECIALIZES IN
RESEARCH METHODS AS AN ACADEMIC
AND WHO IS VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT
WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T CONCLUDE
FROM THESE THINGS, WHAT WOULD
YOU EXPECT SOMEWHERE IN THE
NEXT FEW YEARS FROM THE STUDIES
AND WHAT SHOULD WE USE FOR A
MORE CIRCUMSPECT IF UNREALISTIC
EXPECTATIONS?
>> Man: THERE'S A PHILOSOPHER
WHOSE NAME IS NANCY CARTWRIGHT.
SHE HAS A SLOGAN SHE TALKS
ABOUT EVIDENCE-BASED POLICY AND
THINGS LIKE THAT.
THE SLOGAN IS IF YOU DO
EVIDENCE-BASED POLICY AND YOU
DO EXPERIMENTAL CONTROL
TRAVELING WHAT YOU USUALLY
LEARN IS SOMETHING WORKS
SOMEWHERE.
IT WORKS SOMEWHERE.
AGAIN THE TRAIL IS THE GOLD
STANDARD FOR THE BRONZE
STANDARD.
I THINK ABOUT HER A LOT AND I
READ ABOUT THE BASIC INCOME
STUDY SPRING THERE ARE SOME
DONE IN FINLAND.
SOME ARE DONE IN INDIA.
THERE ARE SOME IN CALIFORNIA.
I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE ALL
STARTING THE SAME THING.
SOME MIGHT BE CALLED
EXPERIMENTS IN THE ACADEMIC
LITERATURE.
THERE ARE STUDIES ALL OVER THE
PLACE VASTLY DIFFERENT
ENVIRONMENTS.
I GUESS THE CAUTION WOULD BE,
IT SEEMS OBVIOUS, AS I READ
ABOUT SOME OF THE REPORTS OF
THE STUDIES, IT DOESN'T SEEM
LIKE IT IS OBVIOUS TO PEOPLE
THAT ARE READING ABOUT THEM IS
THAT YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO
LEARN ALL THAT MUCH ABOUT WHAT
WOULD HAPPEN IN THE U.S. FOR
BASIC INCOME IN INDIA.
OR VICE VERSA.
THE CAUTION WOULD BE EVEN IF A
UBI WORKS, YOU LEARNED IT
WORKED SOMEWHERE IN A CERTAIN
CONTEXT.
YOU MIGHT GET DIFFERENT
RESULTS.
DON'T THINK WE KNOW ENOUGH IN
SOCIAL SCIENCE TO ALWAYS KNOW
WHY YOU MIGHT GET THE
DIFFERENCES IN DIFFERENT
CONTEXTS.
WE KNOW THERE ARE DIFFERENCES,
DIFFERENT RESULTS BUT WE DON'T
ALWAYS KNOW WHY.
I DON'T THINK WE UNDERSTAND
HUMAN BEHAVIOR THAT WELL EVEN
THOUGH WE CLAIM TO BE
SCIENTISTS.
>> AS PART OF YOUR WORK AT THE
STANFORD LAB I UNDERSTAND YOU
HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TRACK THIS
EXPERIENCE OF TRYING TO
ORGANIZE THE DATABASE OF WHAT
WE KNOW.
WHAT YOU LEARN FROM THAT
PROCESS AND DOES THAT SURPRISE
YOU LOOKING THROUGH THAT
ASPECTS?
>> UNFORTUNATELY I'M NOT THE
RIGHT QUESTION TO ASK THIS
PERSON BECAUSE I'M DEALING
MAINLY WITH NORMATIVE ASPECTS.
HOWEVER I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE
WORK WE ARE DOING IN THE BASIC
INCOME LAB ON THE EXPERIMENTAL
ASPECT OF THINGS.
I WOULD SAY THAT I AM SHOCKED
BY THE NEED TO HAVE A REALLY
STRONG RIGOROUS RESEARCH DESIGN
THAT WILL ALLOW US TO
GENERALIZE SOME OF THE
CONCLUSIONS.
ONE OF THE THINGS I AM
STRUGGLING AND THIS IS VERY
MUCH IN LINE WITH WHAT MICHAEL
JUST SAID, IS THAT OUR ABILITY
TO GENERALIZE FROM AN
EXPERIMENT DONE IN THE RURAL
PART OF INDIA TO POSTINDUSTRIAL
SOCIETIES SUCH AS THE U.S.
MIGHT BE VERY LIMITED.
THE NEEDS ARE EXTREMELY
DIFFERENT THE STRUGGLES PEOPLE
ARE DEALING WITH ARE EXTREMELY
DIFFERENT.
PEOPLE THERE WOULD BUILD A ROOF
OVER THEIR HOUSE.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS QUITE
DIFFERENT FROM THE STRUGGLES
PEOPLE ARE DEALING WITH HERE IN
THE U.S. I GUESS THE MAIN THING
I HAVE LEARNED HERE IS I FEEL
LIKE THE NEED FOR A CAREFULLY
CONSTRUCTED DESIGN THAT WILL
ALLOW US TO GENERALIZE OUR
RESULTS AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO
UNDERSTAND AS MUCH AS WE CAN
ABOUT BASIC INCOME.
OLGA, A SUMP AND WHO IS A
PHILOSOPHER, WHEN YOU ARE
THINKING ABOUT THESE THEORIES
IN THESE DEBATES, BASIC INCOME
FOR MOTHERS AND OTHER KINDS OF
CARETAKERS OR LIBERATING
PEOPLE, WHAT IS THE ROLE IN
RESEARCH AND YOU ARE FINDING?
HOW DOES THAT SORT OF HELP YOU
OR NOT HELP YOU EVALUATE THESE
THEORIES?
>> Woman: AS I SAID BEFORE I
THINK THE RESEARCH IS A KEY
PART OF THE WHOLE DEVICE.
WHEN THINGS LIKE THESE HAPPEN,
IS IT GOING TO BE ABOUT WHAT'S
IMPORTANT IN LIFE AND WHAT WE
CAN DO.
[INDISCERNIBLE] I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT TO SEE THE HOLISTIC
PICTURE.
AND DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR
THESE PEOPLE TO SEE THE
HOLISTIC PICTURE AND DIFFERENT
ANGLES TO PREPARE REGARDING
POVERTY AND DEVELOPMENT.
>> SAM IN YOUR DAY-TO-DAY WORK,
I IMAGINE YOU ARE REFERRING
BACK TO RESEARCH A LOT TRIED TO
FIGURE OUT WHICH POLICY BASED
ON WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE
INTERVENTIONS.
WHAT DID YOU FIND USEFUL AS
KINDS OF RESEARCH AND SOCIAL
SCIENTIFIC CONTRIBUTIONS IN
TRYING TO APPLY WORK WHEN DOING
POLICYMAKING?
>> Man: I THINK IT REALLY
DEPENDS ON THE POLICY AND THE
AUDIENCE.
FOR INSTANCE, I DID A LOT OF
WORK ON THE CHILD TAX CREDIT
AND BEFORE THAT GENERAL
ADVOCACY ON CHILD ALLOWANCES.
THEY HAVE A LONG PEDIGREE OF
CONSERVATIVE CIRCLES.
CHILD TAX CREDITS, CAN'T
UNIVERSAL ACROSS THE WORLD.
IN IRELAND THEY HAVE FAMILY
ALLOWANCES THAT ARE DRIVEN BY
CONSERVATIVE PARTIES.
THE IRONY IS THAT THE
REPUBLICANS ARE ALSO THE ONES
THAT REFORMED CASH TO SINGLE
MOTHERS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
IT REALLY DEPENDS ON
EVERYTHING.
IF YOU TALK ABOUT CHILD
ALLOWANCES IN THE CONTEXT ABOUT
THIS IS A PROFAMILY INITIATIVE
WHEN PARENTS HAVE FINANCIAL
SECURITY THEY ARE LESS LIKELY
TO HAVE AN ABORTION FOR
EXAMPLE.
BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THEY
WILL HAVE INCOMES TO RAISE HER
CHILD.THESE ARE THINGS, A LOT
OF CONVENTIONAL, IF YOU'RE
WILLING TO REACH FOR IT YOU CAN
CHANGE A LOT OF MINDS.
THE OTHER THING IS THAT THERE
IS DYNAMICS WITHIN THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY'S
PRO-BUSINESS.
IN A SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE WING.
SO THIS PLAY OUT WITH TAX
REFORM.
TO GREATLY EXPAND THE REFUND
ABILITY OF THE CHILD TAX
CREDITS TO GET MORE FOR
FAMILIES A TRANSFER.
IMMEDIATELY THERE WERE
COALITION LETTERS FROM
AMERICANS FOR TAX REFORM AND
OTHER GROUPS IN THE WALL STREET
JOURNAL CREATING EDITORIAL
SAYING THIS WAS A GROWTH
KILLING MEASURE.
THOSE ARE ALL THINGS TO BE
SENSITIVE TO.
BUT ALSO CREATES AN OPPORTUNITY
TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE.
WHAT ISSUES, AND EJECTING NEW
IDEAS.
THE OTHER FRAMING ON CONTESTING
WEEKLY IS TALKING ABOUT THE
STUDY OF FREE RADICAL.
SOCIAL IS NOT ANTITHETICAL TO
THE MARKET, ACTUALLY COMPATIBLE
TO THE MARKET IF THE MARKET
WERE BETTER.
EASY ADJUSTMENT COSTS AND
TRADE.
THEY REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD WE
WILL BAIL OUT GENERAL MOTORS
BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A PUBLIC
PENSION THAT'S TIED UP WITH
YOUR EMPLOYER.
STUFF LIKE THAT CAN MAKE THE
PERSON IN THE MARKET STOP AND
SCRATCH THEIR HEAD.
THERE ARE THINGS I HAD A LOT OF
SUCCESS REACHING TO.
THE CONVENTIONAL POVERTY SPACE
IS A LITTLE BIT MORE ANGELICAL
IN A LOT OF WAYS.
THEY HAVE CERTAIN TALKING
POINTS THEY WANT TO USE.
AND ONCE THEY DON'T WANT TO
USE.
CERTAINLY BEING FLEXIBLE WITH
YOUR LANGUAGE IS REALLY USEFUL
WHEN YOU ARE TALKING TO
REPUBLICANS.
[LAUGHTER]
>> THERE'S AN INCREDIBLE
ANTIDOTE IN THE BOOK AMERICAN
DREAM ABOUT THE REFORM ACT OF
THE 90s WHICH IS A GREAT BOOK
IF ANYONE HASN'T READ IT.
JIM TALENT COMPOSED A BILL WITH
DAN THROUGH MEDICAID AND CASH
ASSISTANCE FOR ANY WOMAN WHO
WAS A CHILD BEFORE SHE'S 21.
KING RICHARD WAS INTERESTED IN
IT A NATURAL LIFE VETOED IT
BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT THAT
WOULD DO TO THE ABORTION RATES.
THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPLICATED
SECTIONS HERE.
YOU BROUGHT UP CHILD ALLOWANCES
AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD WAY
FOR US TO TRANSITION TO
THINKING ABOUT SPECIFIC
DESIGNS.
BUSINESS TALK IS VERY USEFUL IN
LAYING OUT A BUDGET FOR MODELS
HERE.
I KNOW YOU SEE CHILD ALLOWANCES
AS THE UNIVERSAL CASH MEASURE
THAT BELONGS IN THE SAME
CONVERSATION AS BASIC INCOME AS
A BASIC INCOME FOR KIDS.
GO, I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU VIEW
THE AND HOW YOU SEE IS THERE
LIMITED MEASURES THE BASIC
INCOME THAT DOESN'T COVER
EVERYONE INCLUDING ADULTS IN
THE COUNTRY?
IS THIS A USEFUL BUILDING
BLOCK?
IS IT A DISTRACTION?
>> I GUESS I WOULD BE WHAT YOU
MIGHT CALL UBI ACTIVISTS.
WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS I WANT
TO BE CAREFUL.
IN PRINCIPLE I MAY UBI REALIST.
I THINK IT SHOULD BE UNIVERSAL.
I THINK THE AMOUNT SHOULD BE AS
HIGH AS IT IS SUSTAINABLE.
I THINK IT SHOULD NOT BE
CONDITIONAL.
THUS MY STANCE IN PRINCIPLE.
BUT I'M NOT A POLITICIAN.
I'M NOT A REPUBLICAN.
I'M NOT PART OF THE DEMOCRATS.
IF I WERE DOING THOSE THINGS I
MIGHT THINK DIFFERENTLY BUT I'M
AN ACADEMIC.
I HAVE THE LUXURY OF BEING
PIERCED.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR SOME
PEOPLE TO BE PIERCED.
ANOTHER ANALOGY I USE.
I IMAGINE MAY BE 1850
SOMETHING, WE MIGHT HAVE HAD A
DISCUSSION ABOUT SLAVERY.
SOME FOLKS MIGHT OF SAID YOU
KNOW, GIVEN THE CURRENT U.S.
CULTURE, THERE'S NO WAY FOLKS
WOULD GET RID OF SLAVES.
WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
WHAT WE SHOULD FOCUS ON IS
TRYING TO GET LAWS PASSED THAT
WOULD FORCE SLAVEOWNERS TO
TREAT THEM BETTER.
MAYBE NOT BEAT THEM AS MUCH.
MAYBE NOT WORK TOO LONG IN THE
DAY.
I DON'T KNOW.
IMAGINE TRYING TO MAKE SLAVE
MORE HUMANE.
THAT'S THE IDEA RIGHT?
THAT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN AN
UNREASONABLE POSITION TO TAKE.
RIGHT?
BUT I THINK BETTER THAN SOME
PEOPLE SAYING NO.
SLAVERY IS WRONG.
PEOPLE SHOULD BE FREE.
IT WOULD NOT BE THE BEST
ANALOGY BUT IT WORKS FOR ME.
I DO UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S
POSSIBLE THAT THERE ARE
POLICIES THAT CAN BE STEPPED
OVER.
THERE'S A GOAL AND AGAIN THE
ALLOWANCE IS IN THE RIGHT
DIRECTION.
IT'S A PROPOSAL RIGHT.
A FAIR SHOT.
I UNDERSTAND POLITICS BUT I'M
NOT DOING THAT.
IT'S NOT ME.
>> WE ARE GLAD YOU STAND YOUR
GROUND.
[LAUGHTER]
>> OLGA I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR
PERSPECTIVE ON THIS.
I THINK SOMEBODY WHO COMES OUT
OF D.C. MUCH LIKE SAM IS AN
IMPLICIT CONSEQUENTIALISM
POLICYMAKERS IN D.C. THINK.
THESE ARE STEPS FOR THE THING I
WANT.
WE SHOULD JUST.
[INDISCERNIBLE] I'M CURIOUS AS
PEOPLE WHO THINK VERY HARD
ABOUT THESE QUESTIONS.
ARE THERE COMPROMISES THAT ARE
WORSE THAN NOT DOING ANYTHING?
HOW DO YOU EVALUATE
COMPROMISES?
ARE THERE VERSIONS OF THIS THAT
SACRIFICE ENTIRELY THE GOODS WE
ARE TRYING TO PURSUE?
SIMPLE QUESTIONS LIKE THAT.
>> Woman: THIS IS IDEAL.
[ OLGA ANSWERING QUESTION ]
>> I THINK THIS IS A GREAT
QUESTION TO ASK TO THE
THEORISTS.
ESPECIALLY FOR ME THE
THEORISTS.
I'M USED TO THESE QUESTIONS.
I THINK FROM A PHILOSOPHICAL
STANDPOINT THERE ARE TWO THINGS
I FIND HARD TO COMPROMISE ON.
THE POLICY DEPENDS ON THESE TWO
ASPECTS.
FOR EXAMPLE I GET THAT WE ARE
TRYING TO CREATE SOME SORT OF
NEW FORM OF CITIZENSHIP.
WE ARE TRYING TO REMOVE FORMS
OF SEMA OF WHAT BEING POOR
MEANS.
I'M AFRAID REMOVING THESE
ASPECTS ARE LESS APPEALING.
MY BIGGEST CONCERN OR
COMPROMISE AT THIS POINT IS
THIS SPRING I'M AFRAID RIGHT
NOW THERE ARE A LOT OF HOPES ON
BASIC INCOME AND MOREOVER THERE
ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE HOPING FOR
SOMETHING NEW.
FOR SOMETHING ELSE.
MY FEAR IS THAT SINCE THERE IS
SO MUCH HOPE ON THE INCOME, AND
A SMALLER MEASURE THAN THE
PROFESSIONALS VERSION, IF IT
MEANS THAT BASIC INCOME WILL
SIMPLY NOT SUCCEED, IT WILL
GIVE A LOT OF AMMUNITION FOR
PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST BASIC
INCOME.
I GUESS THE BIG QUESTION IS
WILL WE COMPROMISE AND IF THE
RESULTS ARE NOT AS GOOD AS THEY
CAN BE OR WILL THEY BE
IMPROVEMENTS?
WILL IT MEAN PEOPLE WILL
CONFORM MORE EASILY?
THAT'S MY PERSONAL CONCERN.
>> AND THINKING ABOUT ALL THIS
AS WELL, I WOULD BE REMISS NOT
MENTIONING THE DISCUSSION
THAT'S OPEN UP THE NDC WITH
SANDERS AMONG OTHERS, FOR A
LONG TIME IF YOU HUNG OUT
IMPORTS OF ECONOMICS FOR THE
PAST 20 YEARS THERE ARE TWO BIG
IDEAS TRANSFORMED.
THERE IS BASIC INCOME AND THERE
IS GUARANTEED JOBS.
WE NOW HAVE A BILL IN THE U.S.
SENATE THAT WOULD CREATE
GUARANTEED JOBS WHICH IS A
POINT SORT OF THE TRADITIONAL
$10,000 A YEAR.
IT SEEMS TO HAVE A LOT OF
MOMENTUM.
I KNOW YOU MICHAEL HAVE WRITTEN
ABOUT THE IDEA OF THE RIGHT TO
WORK.
I'M CURIOUS TO EVERYONE AND WE
CAN START WITH MICHAEL, IS THIS
A RIVAL TO UBI?
IS THIS TWO GREAT TASTES THAT
TASTE GREAT TOGETHER?
[LAUGHTER]
>> Man: IDEALLY I AM FOR THE
RIGHT TO INCOME.
[INDISCERNIBLE] JIMMY IT'S A
SECONDARY RIGHT.
[ MICHAEL ANSWERING QUESTION ]
>> SAM?
INDISCERNIBLE
[LAUGHTER]
>> Man: ONE THINGS I SAY IS IF
YOU MOVE REPUBLICANS ON MATTERS
OF PRINCIPLE YOU MOVE DEMOCRATS
ON MATTERS OF STRATEGIC
AMBITION.
RIGHT?
THE DEBATE AROUND UBI THE
CENTER OF BUDGET POLICIES,
GREENSTEIN WROTE AN ARTICLE
SAYING HE SHOULD NOT DO THIS
BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENT
PROGRAMS.
YOU DON'T WANT TO RISK
REVERSING IT.
YOU SEE A SIMILAR THING
THROUGHOUT THE WEIGHT DEMOCRATS
INCORPORATED ABOUT POLICY WHERE
THEY WILL END UP COMPROMISING
WORK REQUIREMENTS OR
CONDITIONALITY TO GET
SOMETHING.
[ SAM RESPONDING ] LOOK AT JOB
GUARANTEES THROUGH THAT LENS.
I WORRY THAT IT IS ESSENTIALLY
A REPUBLICAN STYLE WORKFARE
PROGRAM JUST SCALED UP
MASSIVELY.
AND THAT DOESN'T REALLY EXCITE
ME.
ONE THING I DO WORRY ABOUT IS
HAVING BEEN IN D.C. FOR THREE
YEARS AND SEEING HOW BOTH
PARTIES WORK.
REPUBLICANS HAVE AN IDEOLOGY.
THEN THEY PLAN THAT IDEOLOGY.
DEMOCRATS START WITH THE
POLLING.
AND I TAKE THAT AS THEIR
IDEOLOGY.
I SEE THAT AGAIN AND AGAIN.
IN THIS CASE IT IS A TRUISM IF
YOU ASK PEOPLE IF THEY WANT
JOBS IT PULLS REALLY WELL.
THE JOBS GUARANTEED TO PULL OFF
THE CHARTS.
IT'S THE EXACT SAME POLLING
QUESTIONS THE REPUBLICANS USED
TO JUSTIFY WORK REQUIREMENTS.
I'D RATHER FIND THE BEST
POLICY.
I SEE THIS AS PART OF A BIGGER
TREND FOR BETTER OR WORSE, THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS BECOMING
PARTY OF COLLEGE-EDUCATED.
AS MUCH AS THEY LOOK BACK TO
THE PARTY OF FDR, MAYBE THIS IS
VERY RARE FOR THEM TO LEAP TO
CREATING UNIVERSAL PROGRAM.
[INDISCERNIBLE] I SEE THE JOB
GUARANTEE AS POTENTIALLY A WAY
TO SEEMS TO BE FITTING BUT AT
THE END OF THE DAY IS EXACTLY
WHAT YOU WOULD PREDICT FROM AN
URBAN ELITE.
[LAUGHTER]
>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT
SPARTANS HAD TO RUN A LOT.
HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT THESE
QUESTIONS?
>> CAN YOU REPHRASE THE
QUESTION?
[LAUGHTER]
>> DOES IT TROUBLE YOU THE IDEA
OF BENEFITS TO WORK IN THIS WAY
WOULD YOU THINK THERE IS A
PLACE FOR IT TO WORK IN HIS
DISCUSSION?
>> I THINK ON ONE HAND THERE IS
A GREAT APPEAL ESPECIALLY IN
THESE TIMES IN ORDER TO HAVE
THE NECESSITIES OF LIFE YOU
HAVE TO HAVE A JOB.
ON THE OTHER HAND I'M AFRAID
IT'S PUTTING A BAND-AID IN THE
SENSE THAT WE WILL NOT SOLVE
THE DEEP PROBLEMS OF OUR
SOCIETY.
ESPECIALLY ONE THING IT LACKS
IS THE ABILITY TO MOVE FORWARD.
VERY LIMITED UNDERSTANDING OF
WHAT EQUAL LIFE IS AND WHAT THE
ROLE IS PLAYED.
MY CONCERN IS THAT INSTEAD OF
TRYING TO FIND A SOLUTION WHERE
WE ARE LOOKING FOR NEW
OPPORTUNITIES, WE WILL JUST GET
LABOR THAN IS CURRENTLY PRINTED
THAT'S MY ANSWER.
>> LAST ONE.
>>.
[ OLGA RESPONDED TO QUESTION ]
[ INAUDIBLE ]
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH TIME
WE EVER QUESTIONS THAT I WOULD
LIKE TO OPEN THE FLOOR IF THERE
ARE PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO PITCH
IN.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE
MICROPHONES TO GO AROUND.
[INAUDIBLE ] [ AUDIENCE MEMBER
ASKING QUESTION]
>> ONE THING I HEARD IS ÃWHAT
IS $6400 FOR EVERY CHILD?
$5400 FOR CHILDREN UNDER THE
AGE OF 17.
IT PLANS TO $35,000.
IT REACHES 95 PERCENT IN
HOUSEHOLDS.
[INDISCERNIBLE]
>> HOW MUCH IS THAT U.S.?
[LAUGHTER]
>> 4800 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
NEARLY $5000 PER CHILD IS A
LOT.
FULLY REFUNDABLE.
THAT EXPANSION WAS IN 2015.
[INDISCERNIBLE]
>> I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'RE
EXACTLY RIGHT.
[INDISCERNIBLE] DEPENDENT ON
HOW BIG THE UBI MINIMUM IS.
THE UBI IS BIG ENOUGH TO CROSS
OVER AND EMPLOYERS HAVE TO
RAISE WAGES TO BRING THEM BACK.
AND THEY MIGHT TRANSFER INTO
HIGHER COSTS.
THAT'S MY WORRY.
NO ONE HAS BROUGHT UP ON A
NATIONAL LEVEL.
THAT HASN'T WORKED.
THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM.
>> WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE
QUESTION AND I HAVE NO WAY TO
ENFORCE THIS.
|
>> FIRST OF ALL
CONGRATULATIONS.
[ AUDIENCE MEMBER ASKING
QUESTION ]
>> LETS HER ROAM THE OTHER END
THIS TIME.
OLGA, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS
ON THIS IN A WAY THAT IS
TROUBLESOME?
>> THERE WAS A LOT OF THINKING
THERE.
THE IDEA OF A THREAT TO THE
STATE THAT IT UNDERMINES
DEMOCRACY.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?
>>.
[ OLGA RESPONDING ]
>> WHAT I MOSTLY STUDIED WAS AN
ISSUE.
ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS
TODAY IS THAT WE ARE COMPLETELY
UNABLE TO IMAGINE ANYTHING THAT
IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THINGS
ARE.
EVEN IF THINGS ARE BETTER THAN
THEY ARE RIGHT NOW.
[ JUGUEST ANSWERING QUESTION ]
>>.
[ GUEST ANSWERING QUESTION ]
>> I WOULDN'T STAY UP AT NIGHT
WORRYING THAT UBI IS GOING TO
BE SUCCESSFUL REPEALING THE
EXISTENT.
YOU SEE THIS IN ALL KINDS OF
AREA OF REFORM IN THE U.S.
THERE'S A BUNCH OF PROPOSALS TO
CONSOLIDATE XYZ TO PAY FOR A
BUT YOU END UP GETTING A AND
HAVING XYZ STILL BECAUSE IT IS
MULTIPLYING.
THERE ARE SOME CASES WHEN I
WOULD FAVOR |
[INDISCERNIBLE] REPLACING THAT
WITH A BIGGER UNIVERSAL
PROGRAM.
KIDS WOULD BE TREATED THE SAME.
THERE ARE CASES WHEN IT IS
GOOD.
THERE'S A CONSERVATIVE VIEW
THAT IS ALL THE STATE DOES IS
REDISTRIBUTE.
TAKE THE HAVES AND GIVE TO THEY
HAVE-NOTS. THAT'S REALLY A
WRONG PICTURE.
SOCIAL INSURANCE IS A WAY WE
PULLED THE RISK AND NOT
STRICTLY TRANSFERRING.
HE WOULD GET RID OF FIRE
INSURANCE AND THEFT INSURANCE
AND CAR INSURANCE AND
COLLAPSING INTO ONE THING.
SOME PEOPLE HAVE OUR HOUSE
BROKEN INTO THE HOUSE BURNED
DOWN.
THERE INSURANCE PROGRAMS THAT
CAN BE CONSOLIDATED.
I THINK THAT'S A CONCEPTUAL AIR
ERROR.
>>.
[ PERSON ASKING QUESTION ]
>> CHRIS WROTE HIS BOOK AND
TOUCH THAT ON THE OVERALL LEVEL
OF THE GRANT.
TOUCHED ON A CERTAIN INCOME
LEVEL.
ON TOP OF THAT WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT A UBI AS WELL AS A JOB
GUARANTEE.
I DEFINITELY CANNOT MAKE THE
NUMBERS WORK ON THAT.
AS PART OF THE NEXT GENERATION
RESEARCH LET ME ASK YOU TO
QUESTION SPRING ONE, AS PART OF
MY GENERATION THINKING ABOUT
THE PROCESS AND WHAT IT MEANS
THAT WE ARE HAVING A
CONVERSATION ABOUT THE NEED OF
THIS NOW, HOW DO YOU THINK
ABOUT THESE TRADE-OFFS?
SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAVE TO
HAPPEN.
WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
EXPERIMENTS.
WHAT DO WE THINK ABOUT GRADUATE
STUDENTS WHO WILL NOT BE ABLE
TO DO AN RCT ON BASIC INCOME.
WHAT IS THE CONTRIBUTION THEY
CAN MAKE TRYING TO CONNECT?
>> DYLAN FEEL FREE TO WEIGH IN.
[LAUGHTER]
>>.
[ MAN ANSWERING ]
>>.
[ GUEST ANSWERING QUESTION ]
>> HOW CAN I UTILIZE THEM.
THIS IS SOMETHING I CARE DEEPLY
ABOUT.
THE BIG QUESTION IS WHAT DOES
UBI MEAN FOR US?
WHAT ROLE DOES IT PLAY?
WHEN I TALKED TO MY FRIENDS IN
OTHER DEPARTMENTS I TRY TO SEE
HOW OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK CAN BE
RELATED TO THE QUESTIONS WE
CARE ABOUT AND HOW WE MIGHT BE
ABLE TO HELP.
>>.
[ OLGA ANSWERING QUESTION ]
>> MICHAEL, WHAT WOULD YOU TELL
YOUR GRADUATE STUDENTS?
[INDISCERNIBLE]
[LAUGHTER]
>> I WILL TRY TO ANSWER BOTH
QUESTIONS AT THE SAME TIME.
[ MICHAEL ANSWERING QUESTION]
>> HOW CAN GRAD STUDENTS WORK
ON THIS IF THEY DON'T HAVE $10
MILLION?
THERE'S A TON OF BOOKS TO POP
IN MY HEAD.
THERE'S A FEW THAT USE
DIFFERENT KIND OF PERSONALITY
TESTS.
ANYONE IN ANY CAMPUS CAN BRING
A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF
UNDERGRADS TO DO A PERSONALITY
STUDY ON.
YOU CAN LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT
HOW PEOPLE THINK.
THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE.
IT'S A MULTIFACETED ISSUE.
WE ARE NOT GOING TO ALL HAVE
PAPERS THAT ARE DECADES IN THE
MAKING.
YOU CAN TAKE A PIECE OF THIS
ISSUE FROM ALL AROUND.
>> ONE PAPER I FOUND WAS USEFUL
WAS FROM JUST PETER'S.
AND ELIZABETH RHODES.
WE WERE LOOKING AT INCOME TAX.
LIKE SECTION 8, FOOD STAMPS,
FTC.
IT'S NOT THE SORT OF A CPL
ESTIMATE BUT IT'S A VERY USEFUL
NUMBER AND A USEFUL SENSE OF
SKILL.
[INDISCERNIBLE]
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WORK
OR DIFFER FROM COUNTRY TO
COUNTRY.
[INDISCERNIBLE] IF YOU LOOK AT
THE DETAILS OF HIS PLAN PLAN
WAS TO REVISE THE REVENUES TO
THE MINIMUM POLICY OF FRANCE TO
SLIGHTLY REDUCE THE WORK
REQUIREMENTS.
DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT
THAT?
>> THERE'S A TON OF COUNTRIES
AND SYSTEMS.
[LAUGHTER]
[ MAN ANSWERING QUESTION ]
>> THAT'S A WAY OF ESSENTIALLY
STABILIZING PEOPLE'S INCOMES
THROUGH UPS AND DOWNS.
THE OTHER THING I WANT TO POINT
OUT IS THE BASIC INCOME POLICY
TO KEEP IT TEMPORARY.
THAT WILL UPSET PURISTS.
IF YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE
FOOD STAMPS.
WHICH IS A QUASI-CASH SUPPORT.
THE PERSON WHO USES FOOD STAMPS
IS A PROGRAM FOR 10 MONTHS.
THE EITHER AVERAGE OR CUT BACK
OR SOMETHING PUT THEM UNDER THE
INCOME THRESHOLD AND THEY ARE
SUDDENLY ELIGIBLE.
THEY WILL STAY IN THE PROGRAM
PERMANENTLY.
[INDISCERNIBLE] IF YOU GO TO
THE HOSPITAL THE AVERAGE PERSON
IN THE HOSPITAL IS ON BEDREST
BUT ACTUALLY IF YOU LOOK AT THE
GLOBAL POPULATION THE AVERAGE
PERSON IS THEREFORE A DOCTOR'S
VISIT.
THEWHAT I AM GETTING AT HERE
IS YOU CAN HAVE A PROGRAM
WITHIN A 10 YEAR SPAN YOU GET
TO ACCESS INCOME AS YOU HAVE
WANTED IT.
AND YOU LOOK AT THE FREQUENCY
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IF YOU HAD A LIFE EVENT THAT
WAS A BIG INCOME SHOCK AND
INCOME DISABILITY TO ACT IS THE
UNIVERSAL INCOME THAT DOES NOT
HAVE ANY RESTRICTIONS ON HOW
YOU USE THE MONEY.
THAT'S AN OPTION I HAVE NOT
SEEN EXPLORED ENOUGH.
>> TO BE CLEAR FOOD STAMPS
DOESN'T KICK YOU OFF IF YOU
DON'T QUALIFY AFTER 10 MONTHS.
MOST PEOPLE RECOVER
ECONOMICALLY.
>> EXACTLY.
>> AT THIS TIME THANK YOU VERY
MUCH TO DYLAN AND THE
PANELISTS.
[APPLAUSE]
APPARENTLY THE CONSTRUCTION
GUYS KNOCK OFF AT 3:30 P.M. SO
I APOLOGIZE FOR THE PREVIOUS
INTERRUPTIONS.
THANK YOU FOR WORKING THROUGH
IT.T THIS TIME WE WILL TAKE
A 10 MINUTE BREAK.
WE HAVE REFRESHMENTS IN THE
BACK OF THE ROOM TO HYDRATE
YOURSELF.
RESTAURANTS ARE OUT THE DOOR TO
YOUR RIGHT.
WHEN YOU RETURN WE HAVE THE
PARTICIPANTS ASSEMBLE AT 6:00.
ROUNDTABLE IS IN THE BACK FOR
THE NEXT SESSION.
PLEASE RECONVENE AT ABOUT 4:35
PM IN THE SMALL GROUP TABLES
BEHIND US.
THANK YOU.
[APPLAUSE]
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