Colonel George Pill is probably the most hated man in Australia.

If you believe the media, he's been called a coward.

A sociopath.

Someone who protected pedophile priests.

After four grueling days in Rome this week, you gave evidence the road commission into child sexual abuse and was grilled about what he knew about the pedophile priest first in the Diocese of Bella Rat and then in Melbourne.

Now, if you believe Cardinal Pill, he was lied to.

He was lied to by his bishop in Ballarat Rubble, Milk turns on by his archbishop in Melbourne.

Frank Little Hey knew nothing.

And when he did know something, I became archbishop himself of Milburn.

He took action well.

The Royal Commission seemed to think that story unbelievable.

Virtually called him a liar to his face and said his stories were implausible but just is implausible.

I think is probably Thea other side of the story and that is that we have the third most senior Catholic in the world in the Vatican, effectively the treasurer sitting there in the witness box for four days telling lies after lies after lies and before that, defending pedophiles as they wrote Children.

So which one of these implausible stories is true?

George Hill, Sociopathic liar or just Pill?

The person who reformed It was a tremendous scandal.

Well, we're about to let you decide for yourself by meeting Cardinal Pill.

But before we start, I need to point out two things because there's so much misinformation yet again.

Going out about this interview?

No, I'm not a friend of Cardinal Pell.

We met socially briefly on four occasions before it came to run.

Secondly, no conditions have been put on this interview, and what you will see is unedited, as you can tell.

And it's entirely up to you what you make of what is about to happen.

Come, Phil.

Thanks for your time.

Thank you.

The being hated like this.

He's being cold coward scum on high rotation.

But the mainstream media This is not just Twitter reviews have devastating.

Is that for you?

Very, very difficult on DDE.

Very upsetting on DDE.

Is it that way around it on dive steadily tried to put out what is the truth.

Now if I could go a little bit out of sequence one of the things that helped me in my meeting with the ballot victims.

Uh, despite the fact that I've left Ballarat over 30 years ago, they knew me a little bit.

The number of them help some of them.

I'd help their family members.

So they knew at first hand what I was really like a distinct from this evil insensitive stereotype that is being pushed.

I want to talk to you about that lighter because it was something about making that very strong very powerfully.

But first, there's not just being personal attacks.

The attacks on you has been the attacks on your church and for good reason.

I have to say your church right stands condemned and rightly for hiding pedophiles for the right off hundreds of Children for covering up for telling lies.

And now we have lives destroyed, families destroyed and the church's reputation destroyed.

Does it?

How do you feel about your church when you see this catastrophe in front of you?

Well, very, very sad, effective all for the survivors.

But said also, I mean often that a cz well as they person their personality for individuals suffering off from their fight is damaged if not destroyed.

What?

What We must be clear about, though in fairness is that it was 20 years ago.

We got into gear to deal with these things.

We set up towards healing.

We set up the Melbourne Response.

Now I'm very keen.

This is not for gotten because a lot of very good people have worked very hard for 20 years Thio to deal with these crimes.

People like Peter Callaghan, Father John ASHA, Michael Salmon and many others rather Julien MacDonald, Uh, year of cover up his past.

Well, substantially finished 20 years ago.

All right, well, let's introduce you into how this all came about.

Your father owned the pub in Ballarat.

You're born in Balleret.

I believe your father was a heavy right boxing champion from England.

Now he wasn't from England.

These are nosy.

He a box under the name of Bill because his mother didn't approve.

But he waas the leading contender for the everybody championship.

I think of the British Empire.

So he wasn't that bad.

Sure you're a man of the cloth takes such pride in the pugilist.

Well, I certainly d'oh!

I'm very much admire my dad.

Good on you.

See you then chose the church.

You were quite good at school.

You were a good sportsman to you.

I even made the seconds that you feel now.

The NFL.

Why did you decide to become a priest instead?

Reluctantly.

Because I thought God was calling me to do that.

And I couldn't shake off that conviction.

What did you want to do with it?

What would I want with it?

Did you want to do with this calling with you?

Well, that well, just have gotten to serve the people.

Okay?

You went to Oxford.

You studied in Rome as well.

And in Bala Rat, you came to Bella back to Bella at in 1973.

Do you have any?

Any idea that in Ballarat this was the actual epicenter with some of the worst pedophilia in the church was occurring with one school.

Is something like four pedophiles active pedophiles preying on Children.

Did you have any idea that this was such a plagued diocese?

No.

I was aware that a man called Monsignor day in 72 had been exposed as a pedophile.

But I had no idea that it was one of the worst centers of demonstrated.

No, no idea.

Beyond that, door.

Incredibly, you actually shared accommodation for a little while with one of the world.

In fact, the worst pedophile, Gerald Ridsdale.

So you both in the same Chris Petrie had reached that strike You as a seaman way will get heard.

10 months.

Unusual man.

I didn't warm to him, but by the same token way never clashed.

Um, he is capable.

People didn't complain to me about these manner as sometimes people would about other priests in.

They talk to priest friends and they didn't.

Hey, was a mystery man, I suppose we'd say subsequently, looking back, is there anything you say?

Well, I got from Is that for a Mr that aspect of his behavior?

I should have picked it up.

No, I once a celebrated mass after him And remember, his vestments were there and they were stopping with from some tension or something like that.

And I remember seeing that at the time, and I thought, Well, you know, he's a very tense man, that that's the only particular, um, characteristic that I can remember.

Did anyone come up to you?

And in all the years you were in Ballarat on say, you know that but Ridsdale that you shared a house with Watch out!

No Balleret 31 years ago.

There's a lot of water under the bridge after that.

But I didn't say that to me when I was in Ballarat.

After a few years, you're appointed is one of the consultants.

You were an up and coming young man.

You'd had well educated, smart, seen as a man of the future.

You were appointed one of the consultants of the bishop of Balleret, Ronald.

No cones.

It's beyond question.

It's it's admitted.

It's proven, not cones new.

But Ridsdale and other pedophile priests we're under his watch under his control, and he was moving them around and around and around assumes things got too hot.

One place we're moving somewhere else where they abused Children again.

Now you're sitting there is consultant and you're hearing that right?

Style is being moved again and again unusually often.

What did you ask about this?

Well, it wasn't as unusual as you might think, because in those days we had plenty of young priests and the practice Waas Thio Give them three years in a place and then move them on.

Now his record is not like that.

Uh, has obviously had either he was restless or in some sort of personality.

Um, problem.

That person in what people discuss this personality problem?

What were they calling it?

Well, no, they didn't die.

I can't recall any specific discussion like that.

Um, and I can't remember any specific discussion of a personality problem off grid style.

So there was one notorious thing of time.

Of course we reached that had to do a midnight flit from one place where it was essentially court.

Yes, with the boy on having abuse Children.

And this matter came before your consultants now around that that better never move.

They had to move.

What reason was given to your knowledge for him having to move so quickly abruptly at midnight?

Basically well, but I never knew anything about the consultants.

Never knew anything about a midnight flit from midnight on one occasion in the consult er's minute.

I don't have a very clear recollection of those makings at all about what was said.

One of those.

It said it was necessary to ship him.

Um, now, wait wasn't explained to us.

Uh, one of the consultants there has said that the bishop, it was for a reason because he was homosexual.

I can't remember that, but I don't disputed.

But that's, uh, that's certainly possible.

What's surprising to so many people about these?

These You've got a move and you don't ask, why is it being moved?

But you see, uh, hindsight, there's a big help.

We didn't have that then.

He was just one of a number of priests who came up with what he's moving pit off, huh?

And often would lease on a number of occasions.

One move was to the net, to the Catholic Enquiry Centre in Sydney will let imply some sort of a promotion.

It's no indication that, uh, there there were problems.

In retrospect, you you could be much much wiser.

Mm.

And here's another thing that has confused many people and admit to being confused himself.

Your cousin wasa machine, you in the church if he knew that something very awful was happening.

You sitting around this consultant's meetings of I don't know how many with seven, right?

About three people who knew that this guy was red hot Bishop sitting there knew he was a pedophile.

Andi, you're you don't even the drinkers at the Apollo Bay Hotel apparently knew on parents and teachers and nothing at all on DNO that meaning.

But some in three towns knew how come you didn't?

Because we were never told.

It's not just myself.

The other consultants are very clear on that.

We were I never told.

I'm not sure that even the Vicar general's were told about something other than what occurred during that period is Vicar General.

My cousin Hank was a notoriously monosyllabic Accept any change here once in a while.

Ah.

Hey, was, uh, closed on on these methods.

Um, I completely understand why people would think How can this be?

You've got three people that I'm meeting, maybe four.

That's not the major implausibility.

Yeah, What is so overwhelmingly implausible is that we've got probably the worst better file.

Uh, Australia active, and we've got a bishop or not.

Didn't just give him a second chance, but repeatedly refused to back.

Unless that's completely implausible.

And that's Theo.

Evidence is very clear way in.

The consultants them want told now, as I said, I lived Balleret 30 years ago, there was water to go under the bridge on after I left.

But the mission and one or two of these was sat on this very tightly.

And I think the reason for that is because if they mention to the consultants why it was happening, you would have provided enormous discussion people.

Well, you know what's going on.

Can we do this?

Is this appropriate?

What about the danger to people?

And and that didn't happen.

That's unanimous.

Unanimous testimony off the consultants.

So your critics would obviously say that you're the kind of guy that sits there in a meeting, knowing this bloke is abusing Children and ticking off you can get another time to do it again is that everybody knows.

May believes that.

I mean, I might be occasionally out spoken.

I might occasionally put my foot in it.

Ah, but anybody who knows me know would know that I wasn't going to be sitting there saying nothing if way we're aware of.

I was aware of that.

Now it's beyond dispute.

It's proven thing that Bishop Balcones, sitting there, knows all this.

Then hang moves.

These pedophiles knows it and hides it.

Have you got any explanation why he would do that?