She could be one of them.

It's not a van Cartier and Yankee who is a communications and marketing director for McKinney schools.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Like to be here yesterday to see with the right home.

Yes, I communications management in cause and marketing.

As you said, Yes, And I'm not a gender expert, but I'm on expert at being a woman.

Like all of us were just being our experiences and meeting each other from that it's true.

I mean, that position is no easy to hold.

Like what War talks about some of this on the context of being a woman.

I'm so tell us maybe how your journey has been and maybe any challenges that you did face getting to the position you're in.

Well, it wasn't a straight for Johnny for sure, e.

I am also a mother being a woman, and at an early age that so my first job was in the banking industry and I was also studying.

Yes, and I remember tryingto balance all that.

It was not at all easy.

I am.

And at some point I had to make some difficult decisions because I was thinking, What next?

What next?

Also for my for my daughter and I left the country went into journalism because I study international relations on Guy was teaching as well, and then I built up from the gained experience.

It was it was very difficult sometimes, like dropping your child at the kindergarten very early, picking them late, feeling empty.

But eventually the night I moved back and got into a project in communications and slowly built built it up from there long here on such an amazing journey that you had right there here.

I always love it when women win.

So what motivated you to start up?

Marketing, Communication?

Marketing?

Yeah.

Sometimes you'll find that all your experience and reach you towards a certain path, but is not usually so well defined.

At the beginning, you might find yourself still trying to figure it out, so it's just that I'm a mystery.

Telemaco nectar.

I connect ideas and connect people in unusual Do it in the background, really not at the front like this so and all that kind of then led me to the to the Korean Communications.

I set up the communications department from scratch and then it and built it from there s So what are some of the highs and lows of having like holding a position in such a prestigious like institute?

The highs off course is because it's an education.

And my passion has always been in development areas having studying international relations.

So it's saying that progress in education and again taking it back to women as women, these always the things that will notice that no offense meant really.

You know, I'm so when you're when you're dealing with Children, you'll always being out those things like we need to support this.

We need to look at Children with dyslexia on dhe.

I guess the privileges for me to be able to bring those agendas to the table and tow, you know, to get them accustomed passed right, so you're in education, and yesterday our guests, I'm shared the story.

It's a story which we know about the girl who teacher made fun of her for soiling herself once she was a demonstration, and she ended up committing suicide.

Now we maybe I don't know.

I deliver everyone in society.

There's no hold educators on a particular level because I mean, those are the people who are entrusted with Children.

My Georgie, off the time.

Aside from being a parent, what are the kind of values which you're in selling?

Especially from like the experience off the girl child, in the schools or in education?

Sorry to be able to have a safer place for girls.

Yeah, so it's It's really about creating that awareness, so doing the mentorship.

And then we have something called which I'll be happy for other schools to implemented.

They haven't protection offices, okay?

And we have counselors, both female and male.

And so we always communicate to the girls that, in case of any situation, he is a safe space for you, and you can come and speak to this person.

And and then there's a procedure how we're looking to eat.

And then, of course, we don't live out the mill teachers, and that's again going back to women issues.

And actually, it's not women issues.

It's issues affecting women because it's everyone's issue.

Women and girls, right?

So again educating them.

Your class teacher, Your meal.

How do you handle such a situation?

Taking them through that training and mentorship.

And, um yes, that was on that aspect of what is International Women's Day for you.

And are you gonna be celebrating and women in your life?

Yes.

Um so for me, Okay, Fast.

Why'd Wise International Women's Day such a big deal?

That's because what is universal is male and which is female finish.

And so we have this one day to really just make a noise about it, celebrate ourselves celebrating, acknowledge the women that we are in the great human have also paved the path for us like one Gary my high on the rest.

And it's also a day for us, too, because people are listening.

So that's the day we have to talk about the information we know using data, using facts so that it's not just what they say were complaining, right?

We have the facts, and this is really the situation.

Rina's women to push their agenda on Gwen, do you?

Where do you think we are?

Like this is just a general question.

Just your opinion.

Do you think we're in a place where it's like, you know, with 50% of the way, are we 60% of the way?

Just a number As far as how far we're going to create this, you know, equity between the sexes.

Well, you know, it's no way are getting ahead, right?

But it's very slow.

I would say we are at outside.

I could say we're at 50%.

Yeah, yeah, But when we look at the Kenyan labor force, almost 50% are women, right?

And that sounds great.

But at the same time, when we look at say, now, we go to senior positions, go fatty for center women now from 30% 5% are in CEO sitting on boards, only 5% meaning the rest is then underneath 95%.

So, yeah, you see now and then again, so were celebrating women who are in the labor force.

But again, what kind of rules are they holding?

We'll find it's more household kind of jobs and not yeah, not the jobs that we need to be seeing women in here.

So the question should be asking is why Why on I like this example off the Friday night, for example.

OK, so you say you're your own woman in a senior position.

No managerial position and it's Friday.

What's your What?

What will happen after work?

What?

What would you do?

Like a bomb menacing a position in like a corporate situation, right?

It's Friday evening.

What's your plan going?

I mean, do they turn up on senior position?

I really don't have the time I gonna work.

So if you want me in your position, I'd probably work harder to go our life.

I'm probably just a director.

Probably move my level.

Something at work harder later.

Staying late in the night and work harder.

Yes.

Okay.

That's one thing that would happen.

And by the time you're that level, most women have families, right?

Yeah.

Yes.

So you're going to go on and you're not going to go home.

You're going faster.

Go to the grocery store because you need to buy the milk.

You need to buy the bread and then go home.

Sought out.

Dina, do whatever you need to do.

Okay.

Now it's evening.

It's supposed to be time to relax.

And there you are again thinking about that.

She put the German 100 days.

And that's that's the reality for most women.

But then looking at it a cycle because of end of the day, these first we have to educate our men.

And I don't I don't entirely blame them because these biases become so subconscious that even men and women women except those biases as the truth or just the way things should be.

Yeah.

You see, So, um, so what was?

I think so, Yes.

So now you're a woman.

You have that kind of a workload, right?

You have someone to assist you.

Okay, maybe you're in a managerial position position.

You can afford that.

Help?

Yeah.

And then the person you have hired to assist you with your household duties, what does it mean for them?

Because now you're working late, right?

So she's also working late.

Yeah.

Maybe she's at your house Monday to Friday.

She has Children when we should see them.

Exactly.

So it's a cycle, and we have to think of it at every step of the way.

Us as women, right?

How are we breaking that cycle?

So what are we doing?

A and that's that's That's the most difficult course I bade me, but it's not.

It's such impossible.

Like it's impossible.

Everyone can do something.

And I hold women who have the positions that they can use to influence this account more accountable because for examples, okay, I'll give my example of attended senior management meetings with my daughter, and we've had singing when you mentioned dinners which is there, and she'll do her homework and all that.

And that's what we have to demonstrate that this is an important part of my life.

I want to be here.

But this is also important.

And if my for example, my daughter's with me, then it means that my house assistant can also go maybe with her Children.

Oh, and it's this simple, everyday things that we can do and off course, the Remember that the other 95% of government right, and they can see this and they will with time they get to understand it.

But me, as women have to didn't want strict it.

I get it is definitely like Okay, I was just gonna ask you as a woman, like, how do you balance, you know, your career and life you've given us giving us one example.

But even with that being said, like, can you see men like especially in Africa, like same Kenya.

Specifically, can you see men doing house chores and cleaning?

And should we hold them like, accountable for maybe taking on those roles?

Yeah, we should hold them accountable, but in on How can I say not in our way that we're blaming them or saying You need to do this and it's like, Hey, I'm having a really tough week and I need you to step in and that's agree.

How are we going to do this?

Let it be a conversation.

And then again, for the men you're contaminated to each other is not to creature stigma around it, because research has shown that men the stigma around men doing housework like, Oh, you shot.

Yeah.

So that's why it's everyone's issue.

Yeah, When you said about bringing your kids to work, I thought of a lot of maybe places abroad where they gave women the options off, maybe working at home as well, im so that it can be a bit easier or having like, breast feeding station so that you know you can feel like you're still being a present mom thinking, yes, things like that.

But how far are we go in Kenya to get into places like that?

Because number one, there's a lot of women who are even an influence, who tend to have the attitude that, you know, shin up.

You're supposed to figure it out yourself.

And if they that much natural position that there's not someone who are making the decisions, then those decisions are coming down.

And I don't think they mean to make those decisions from a place off trying to stifle women.

I feel like they're just trying to be part off.

They don't want to be the problem when they get there.

You see what I mean?

So I mean, how are we gonna be able to move forward in Kenya with that being the message?

Yeah.

So, um, I don't know how controversial I can get, but you kind of table, This is a given take in.

That's a difficult position you have raised.

So these kind of can I say waiting for 13 generally should kind of clear Theo younger one now needs because now we have the information.

We have the statistics we have education, we have the digital.

We have the digital spaces, like for working remotely and women like me cause I'm relatively young.

Yeah, are the ones now who can really implement this.

So it's just waiting them out.

Let me just say that I do have a very supportive husband.

That is, he will do the dishes even when I'm sick.

You're taking off everything.

He'll buy food.

He'll actually go grocery shopping for us.

But I think because of the stigma, the men are afraid to put it out there.

That I'm actually doing this.

Do you think that What do you think that can change?

The this notion that men, I'm gonna do it.

But Miss Julie, can Isay.

Julie can What can you probably don't like?