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  • In your book, you share your stories,

  • you talk about your life, especially as mayor.

  • What I loved is, there's an anecdote

  • about you sitting at the desk for the first time,

  • "Wow, it's day one-- what do I do, where do I begin?"

  • -Yeah. -What would your day one be as president?

  • You know, Obama said, "I'm gonna go for health care,

  • I'm gonna shut down Guantánamo."

  • Trump said, "I'm here to build a wall."

  • Everyone has their idea of day one.

  • -None of them seem to achieve it, but... -(laughter)

  • everyone has their idea of day one.

  • What is your day one as president?

  • I think day one you launch a package of Democratic reforms

  • to strengthen our democracy.

  • Some things that I think we could achieve in the first year,

  • the kinds of things that were in H.R.1 that the House passed

  • but that's gonna go to the Senate and die there.

  • Making voter registration easier,

  • making it easier to get to the polls,

  • but also launching things that are gonna take years to achieve.

  • Launching a reform to the electoral college

  • based on the idea that you might say is simplistic,

  • that... you ought to give the presidency

  • -to whoever gets the most votes. -Right.

  • Um, launching a commission to dep-- propose measures

  • that would de-politicize the Supreme Court.

  • I mean, big, deep structural reforms that,

  • -uh, need to happen, right? -(cheering and applause)

  • Um... Not because I'm under any illusion

  • that they can get done in the first few days

  • or even in the first few years, some of these things.

  • But really to remind everybody

  • that one of the most elegant features

  • of our constitutional system is that it's designed

  • to be capable of self-healing and reform.

  • There have been periods when we've not been afraid

  • to have a number of structural reforms.

  • In the '60s and '70s you saw change to the voting age,

  • you saw the 25th Amendment.

  • Even though the ERA, sadly, didn't make it,

  • having that fight led to things like Title IX.

  • And then we've been in a drought of structural reforms.

  • Not much has changed.

  • And so when we do have a change to structures,

  • it's usually in a very cynical way.

  • So, for example, a lot's been made

  • of this idea of Supreme Court reform,

  • as though our side of the aisle are the only ones

  • who are talking about changing the Court.

  • Republicans changed the number of justices

  • on the Supreme Court.

  • They changed it to eight until they took power again,

  • and then they changed it back to nine.

  • I would like these kinds of changes to happen not in

  • an opportunistic shattering of norms

  • for one part to get their way,

  • but through a systematic set of structural reforms

  • that will make our democracy stronger

  • for the balance of my lifetime.

  • Because every other issue that's so urgent, from--

  • I think climate tops the list, but climate, income inequality,

  • education, gun reform, immigration-- you name it--

  • is gonna be very hard to deal with

  • if we still have such, uh,

  • such warping of our democratic system itself.

  • It's interesting that you have these ideas

  • that connect with-- obviously, Democratic voters--

  • but you have the challenge of selling some of these ideas

  • and the idea of your presidency

  • to people who may be in the middle or have voted for Trump.

  • And you know some of the people

  • who voted for Obama went on to vote for Trump.

  • People have shown that they can switch their affiliations.

  • -Yeah. -How do you sell some of those ideas

  • to somebody in the heartland?

  • If somebody's a Trump supporter, and you say to them,

  • the electoral college is something

  • that needs to be changed, how do you sell

  • that type of idea to somebody who feels like,

  • -or has been indoctrinated to believe, -Yeah.

  • -that those are their ideas? -Yeah.

  • I mean, some of it's just plain English.

  • Just saying like, "In a democracy, don't you think

  • "the way we ought to pick our president

  • is to give it to the person who gets the most votes?"

  • Um, some of it-- I mean, that shouldn't be...

  • That seems very simple.

  • -Yeah. -(laughter)

  • It's so simple that I don't trust it.

  • -Something's weird. -(laughs)

  • And, you know, what I've found--

  • 'cause we have a lot of people where I live who did that:

  • they voted for Obama and for Trump.

  • Many of them also voted for Mike Pence for governor

  • and me for mayor.

  • Uh, and one of the things that shows you

  • is that it's not all about ideology.

  • I think a lot of people want to know--

  • they may have values and ideas-- they also just want to know

  • what these ideas mean in their life.

  • And so part of that's when we're talking about our democracy,

  • that we're all better off in a better democracy, but also

  • when we're talking about something like health care.

  • Climate change is a great example where, I'm afraid still

  • that when we think about climate change

  • our mental imagery around it

  • is usually something from the Arctic, right?

  • It's a polar bear looking for a habitat,

  • it's a piece of ice falling off the ice sheet.

  • When I'm thinking about climate change,

  • I'm thinking about neighborhoods in South Bend,

  • in my Midwestern city,

  • devastated by two historic floods,

  • 1,000-year flood and a 500-year flood,

  • that happened less than two years apart.

  • So saying, "Look, this is a safety issue for you and me."

  • Not something that's just happening out there

  • in the atmosphere or out there in the Arctic,

  • but in our homes and our neighborhoods,

  • where Nebraska's under water, California's catching fire,

  • South Bend's at risk of greater floods.

  • And the more we can make it concrete like that,

  • the more it's not only politically effective,

  • but I also think philosophically better.

  • Because if we can't explain or validate a policy,

  • in terms of how it's gonna make

  • -our everyday personal lives actually better, -Right.

  • then why are we even out here?

  • Let me-Let me ask you about the Mike Pence

  • versus Pete Buttigieg.

  • Um, it seems like it started out of nowhere for many people.

  • You know, it seemed Mayor Pete came out--

  • that's you, by the way-- came out and, um, and said,

  • "Um, you know, if Mike Pence has a problem with me,

  • he should take it up with my creator."

  • And this has turned into a conversation

  • in and around religion in America.

  • You have an interesting idea,

  • and that is that for a long time,

  • -people on the right have claimed religion. -Right.

  • But you believe that there's a religious left

  • and religion as a whole

  • is something that people can be interpreting differently.

  • -Right. -How-how do you sell that message,

  • and do you believe that on the left,

  • religion is as strong as it is on the right?

  • I think it absolutely can be.

  • I think there's a great tradition of the religious left

  • that's not getting enough attention.

  • I mean, you look at the civil rights movement,

  • which is certainly a product

  • of the religious left in some senses.

  • You look at the work that's going on right now,

  • uh, in order to help lift up the conditions

  • from immigrants at the border

  • to poor people across this country.

  • Um, and what I think it signals to us

  • is we've got to do away with this idea

  • that the only way you can think about the implications

  • of religion and politics is from a right-wing perspective.

  • I'm careful when I talk about this,

  • because anybody in the political space,

  • I think, has an obligation to be there

  • -for people of any religion and of no religion. -Mm-hmm.

  • But I also can't miss the fact that when I'm in church

  • and I'm hearing about scripture

  • about, uh, taking care of the least among us

  • and humbling yourself and visiting the prisoner

  • -and taking care of the stranger... -Right.

  • ...uh, and-and lifting up the poor,

  • that has some political implications.

  • And they are radically different

  • from the behavior of-of, uh, conservatives

  • who present themselves as religious.

  • That's just one of the-the conversations

  • that has followed you on the trail recently.

  • It's been you and, uh, and Mike Pence.

  • Um, more recently, you've been thrust into the news

  • in and around issues regarding voters who are black.

  • -Mmm. -You know, people have said,

  • "Mayor Pete, it feels like you have a blind spot

  • when it comes to black voters in America."

  • You know, uh, whether it be the fact that in South Bend

  • when South Bend's economy rose up,

  • black people didn't rise up as much.

  • You know, they stayed in poverty.

  • Um, you know, you've had issues in and around conversations

  • around the black police chief.

  • What do you think you're gonna do,

  • or how are you going to appeal to black voters

  • and-and connect with them?

  • Because, I mean, everyone has an area where they're strongest

  • -when they're running for president. -Yeah.

  • Um, today you met with Reverend Al Sharpton.

  • Did you garner any knowledge,

  • or-or is there any idea that you will change

  • in how you communicate with black voters specifically?

  • Well, I think a lot of it's the importance of outreach.

  • So, there are people who will find their way to you,

  • and those are your core supporters.

  • And then there are the people who will never hear from you

  • unless you reach out to them.

  • And it's one of the reasons why we're in South Carolina,

  • for example, in a couple of days,

  • and we'll really be proactively making sure we're engaging,

  • uh, whether through the faith community or in other ways

  • -with black voters and black neighborhoods. -Mm-hmm.

  • This was important for me back home, too.

  • Not everybody knows that South Bend

  • is a racially diverse city.

  • We're about 40, 45% nonwhite.

  • And I prided myself on-on winning reelection

  • -in minority districts as well as whiter districts. -Right.

  • But that happened through a lot of lessons learned the hard way.

  • As you mentioned, we had some very painful issues,

  • especially in my first days and months as mayor,

  • around race and policing, uh, around neighborhoods.

  • We have a lot of racial inequality in our city.

  • Not because we want to,

  • uh, but it's shown me that good intentions are not enough.

  • You have to have intention around your policies,

  • and we're working on everything back in South Bend

  • from black entrepreneurship

  • to investing in historically disinvested neighborhoods.

  • I think the same thing has to happen at the national level.

  • Look, these racial inequities didn't just happen.

  • They're not an accident. They're, in many cases,

  • the consequence of racist policies,

  • which means we have to have not just nonracist policies

  • but anti-racist policies if we're ever going to see

  • these things equalize in our lifetime.

  • Uh, and I may not be able to convince

  • every voter out there to be for me,

  • but at the very least, I need to make sure

  • that every voter out there knows that I'm for them.

  • (cheering and applause)

  • It's...

  • it's interesting that you say that

  • and you-you've commented so much on policies and ideas

  • that you would have for the nation,

  • because, recently, you know, you took flak,

  • I think, it was at the CNN town hall,

  • where, you know, uh, it was Anderson Cooper who said to you,

  • "Hey, um, you're one of the only or one of the few candidates

  • who does not have any policy on their website."

  • And then your response was, "Well, I don't--

  • I don't want to inundate people with the minutiae of policy."

  • Uh, what does-- what does that mean, per se?

  • And-and, you know, does that mean you don't trust

  • that people will be able to handle the ideas of policy?

  • Or do you think that policy is not as important

  • -as people think it is? -So, I think every candidate

  • has an obligation to present the details of our policy.

  • I've sought to do that in-in kind of Q&A format,

  • but I recognize that we'll want to continue doing that

  • in written format, whether it's things

  • that we'll be adding to the website

  • or things that we'll be putting out

  • in policy addresses on specific issues.

  • What I'm getting at when I say this though

  • is that we need to make sure we don't get trapped

  • at the level of policy design

  • without also talking at a higher level

  • about the values that motivate our policies

  • and at a ground level about what those policies mean.

  • -So... -Give me an idea of what that means.

  • Well, so, for example, on education, uh,

  • you know, I believe some very technical things need to happen.

  • Like, um, you know, right now,

  • when you get, uh, student loan debt forgiven

  • on income-based repayment, uh, that's-that's taxable,

  • and I don't think it should be. We'd be better off

  • if it weren't. Stuff like that. Technical but meaningful.

  • Um, but the-the biggest thing we need to do around education

  • is have a secretary of education

  • who believes in public education.

  • -So... -(cheering and applause)

  • So you're saying focus more on the values...

  • -So I want to make sure that we start -Right. Okay.

  • at the broad strokes so that people--

  • when we get into the more technical stuff-- and we will--

  • um, that it's understood where that's coming from

  • and how it all fits together,

  • instead of just presenting all the technicalities

  • and expecting people to be able to kind of guess

  • -or derive what our values must be -Mm-hmm.

  • by looking at all these bullet points in our white papers.

  • It's not that I'm against having the white papers.

  • It's that I want to make sure that we lead with our values,

  • so people can put the papers in context.

  • When you speak to voters

  • who are concerned about your experience or lack thereof,

  • you know, you-you hear echoes within the Democratic Party

  • or whether it's centrists who say,

  • "You know, this Mayor Pete guy's great.

  • "He talks a good game, but, I mean,

  • "does he have the experience of Joe Biden?

  • "Does he have the experience of Kamala Harris or Corey Booker?

  • He-he doesn't, and I'm worried about that lack of experience."

  • -How do you respond to that? -I actually think

  • experience is one of the best reasons to vote for me.

  • I know that sounds a little cheeky at my age,

  • but the experience of being a mayor,

  • I think, of a city of any size

  • but especially in the strong mayor system we have in Indiana,

  • -where there's no city manager, for example, -Mm-hmm.

  • uh, you are dealing with these issues

  • up close and personal every day,

  • whether it's homelessness or poverty or race and policing.

  • You're not debating them in a committee.

  • You are-- you are having to manage them.

  • I mean, one minute, we could be dealing

  • with an economic development puzzle about incentives

  • for somebody who's saying they're gonna add jobs.

  • And the next minute, we're having a Parks and Recreation

  • controversy over moving a duck pond.

  • Um, and-and then that's when you get the call

  • -that there's been a racially... -Did you move the duck pond?

  • -Uh, we're working on it. Yeah. Yeah. -Uh-huh.

  • It's-it's a long story, but it's-it's got to move.

  • -The ducks-- the ducks will be better off. Um... -(laughter)

  • But, um... but just when you're having a good laugh about that

  • is when the phone call comes in about a racially explosive

  • officer-involved shooting,

  • where you don't even have all the facts.

  • And you got to figure out what to say on television

  • -to try to hold the community together. -Mm-hmm.

  • What you learn is that the job has not just a policy element,

  • um, not just a management element

  • but also this-this intangible part,

  • the moral part of just calling people to their highest values.

  • It's actually probably the thing

  • we're most grievously missing right now in the White House,

  • and we really need it. It really matters.

  • (cheering and applause)

  • Look,

  • one thing I've always enjoyed about you, from the beginning,

  • is, uh, you're not afraid to jump into, uh,

  • the sticky side of a conversation.

  • And, uh, I've always appreciated your ability to take a step back

  • and go, like, "Oh, yeah, maybe I could change that or evolve."

  • The book is fascinating.

  • Your campaign is proving to be as fascinating.

  • Thank you so much for joining us on the show.

  • -Thanks for having me out. -Really had a great time

  • with you.

  • The memoir, Shortest Way Home, is available now.

  • Mayor Pete Buttigieg, everybody. We'll be right back.

In your book, you share your stories,

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ピート・ブッタギギ - 選挙人投票所を改革するのはなぜ急進的ではないのか|ザ・デイリーショー (Pete Buttigieg - Why It’s Not Radical to Reform the Electoral College | The Daily Show)

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    林宜悉 に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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