Name: 喜びの原則 - マチュー・リカール、ツァイトガイスト・ヨーロッパ2013 (The Pleasure Principle - Matthieu Ricard, Zeitgeist Europe 2013)
Uploaded: 2021-01-14T04:46:25.000Z
Duration: 17 min 53 s
Description: VoiceTubeの動画で発音を聞きながら英語表現を覚えよう！学べる英語：

様態の副詞

>>Dan Ariely: I want to start with the question of what can we learn from Buddhism and your

own experience about happiness? How do we become.

>>Matthieu Ricard:Well, I was thinking about when the panel started with pleasure, the

relationship between the two. You know, people speak of magic moments. Walking in the snow

and under the stars with a wonderful person. But sometimes this is magic moment, there's

nothing I can do about it, but when you think about why was it magic? At that time, it was

a sense of having no inner conflicts, of feeling a bit spacious with the universe, with a loved

one, this kind of peace. So it's not that magic. You can understand why it happened.

So could we consider that as something like a way of being that we could cultivate as

a skill? Now, to come back to pleasure, you come back

from this walk in the snow and under the stars and you take a wonderful hot shower. It's

bliss. Pleasure. Now, you stay 24 hours in that hot shower,

it's not so interesting. So pleasure is very much dependent upon time,

circumstances. It's something that uses itself as we consume it. And if it's -- on top of

that you add craving or grasping, then somehow it dims the feeling of deep satisfaction.

Actually, you can enjoy something pleasurably, and in the brain build up the wanting circuit

which is different, and at the end you may experience something that you want without

feeling pleasure. That's called addiction. So in a way --

>>Dan Ariely: Just a moment there. So you're trying to separate happiness from pleasure

and you say pleasure is much more temporary and --

>>Matthieu Ricard: Well, pleasure, you look for pleasurable sensations. And so those are

very vulnerable, let's say, to outer circumstances. And basically if you are keeping on trying

to renew that all the time, and this is the recipe for happiness, it looks more like a

recipe for exhaustion than happiness. So let's take happiness now as a way of being.

So a way of being that is not just happiness on its own but a cluster of human qualities.

It is inner peace, inner strength, inner freedom. It is loving kindness, compassion, friendship,

resilience, inner courage. And those are things that the more you experience them, rather

than pleasure, the more actually they get deeper and stronger because it builds up something.

So in the end you end up with inner resources to deal with the fundamentals of life, no

matter what happens, that is the opposite of pleasure.

So it builds a platform in life on which you come back. After winning the lottery, you

come up, you even go below. If it's a drama, you also come back to that platform, but you

raise that platform as a skill. So now it's also something that give you a

sense of confidence that you can go through the ups and downs of life, so, therefore,

you feel less vulnerable, you feel less threatened, you feel less protective, so you also naturally

will open more to others. So that element, I think especially the notion of loving kindness,

altruism, compassion, benevolence, those are key components to generating happiness. And

it's not necessarily pleasant. We were talking yesterday while we were taking

a walk that can it be compatible with sadness? So if it's pleasure, no way. But you see an

injustice, a massacre, it's incredibly sad. But you can keep the sense of courage, of

determination to change that, of compassion, of sense of direction in life, and so you

will treat that in the best possible way, in a constructive way. You won't fall into

despair. So it's compatible with what I call a way

of being, which is flourishing and well-being, even though it's very unpleasant.

So in that sense, it is different. >>Dan Ariely: Yeah. Sorry, I want to find

out how you do this because it's interesting -- I mean, it sounds promising. So here's

my kind of big struggle with pleasure. There is an analysis of people who have been climbing

mountains. And when you read these stories about mountain climbing, they look -- they

seem like stories of pure misery. You would think it's elation? No. First of all, it's

very dangerous, but it's frostbite and hard to breathe and hard to walk and injuries and

so on. And from these descriptions you say somebody just did that, and they got to the

top. They will say this was the biggest mistake of their lives, they'll go down and never

do it again, and from there just try to get simple pleasures out of life rather than this

horrific experience. Nevertheless, people finish climbing big mountains,

the Himalayas and they go back and do the same thing again. And it's the kind of pleasure

that looks to me like it's not captured day-to-day thinking. It's a pleasure that comes from

achievement, and it's a pleasure that comes from competition. It's a pleasure that comes

from overcoming challenges. It's a pleasure that comes from pain and misery in some interesting

-- >>Matthieu Ricard: You know the idea of flow.

>>Dan Ariely: Yeah. >>Matthieu Ricard: It is not so much the competition.

I think flow is something that you are fully engaged in. You forget yourself. It's just

challenging enough that you have to put the best of yourself and not too much that you

panic. So it's not boring and not stressing. So flow can be achieved through mountain climbing

or a surgeon or an artist. It could be achieved also through medication. It's flow without

action. So a continuous stream of experience which

has a quality, a sense of flourishing, that time takes another value. When I sit in my

hermitage, some people say it must be so boring sitting months alone in the hermitage. Don't

you feel lonely? Doesn't the time seem long? >>Dan Ariely: You must have access to Paul's

movies when you sit there. >>Matthieu Ricard: Right. But I find the time

so rewarding. Just before lunch break, 15 minutes, it's like a stream of melted gold.

I have this 15 minutes to just go deeper and trying to generate compassion and all that.

So it is a kind of inner flow. So I think, really, it's the quality of experience

that will determine over the long time how you go about that.

>>Dan Ariely: So you have been called the happiest man in the world, I think.

>>Matthieu Ricard: Sorry. I have made so many disclaimers about that.

>>Dan Ariely: I don't think you said it. >>Matthieu Ricard: Forget about that.

>>Dan Ariely: Somebody said it. Clearly you're very happy.

>>Matthieu Ricard: Not too bad. >>Dan Ariely: Not too bad.

[ Laughter ] >>Dan Ariely: So we've tried to kind of think

about what kind of things we do wrong and how can we do it better. Spending money, being

happy, what kind of things our intuitions are generally not correct. And from your experience,

what kind of things actually are making people become happier and more satisfied?

>>Matthieu Ricard: Typically, you know, the lottery is studied very much. The comment,

people say, "Oh, of course he's happy. I would be happy."

And then you hear of people who have everything to be happy. They are beautiful, they are

famous, they have a lot of money and they are very depressed. "Oh, what's wrong with

this guy? If I had that, I would be very happy." I think it's too much. Of course we need to

improve the outer conditions. No question. Especially there's still 1.5 billion people

living in abject poverty. There's conflict. There are mothers who cannot feed their children.

No question that we should improve outer condition in this world.

This being said, especially when we have what we need, if we keep on placing all our hopes

and fear in the outer world, we are in for a big disappointment because precisely, we

when we get it, we say so what? We expected something wonderful and it is just ordinary.

So we vastly underestimate the importance of inner conditions. We deal with our mind

from morning to evening. That's the ultimate experience of whatever we do. Whether you

get a Ferrari or something else, it's your mind that is going to translate that into

happiness or misery. And that mind can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Depends

how it works. So at least if we could pay some attention

of how to deal with the mind, how to deal with emotions, how to recognize that aggressivity,

hatred, jealousy arrogance, craving will just destroy your happiness and physically make