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  • - In this video, I interview Jordan Harbinger,

  • who's interviewed over 700 people

  • and has over 200 million podcast downloads.

  • And we talk about his tips for how

  • to do better interviews, his advice

  • for leveling up your content,

  • and his tips for body language

  • so you can crush your on-camera presence comin' up.

  • (upbeat music)

  • - [Announcer] This video is brought to you

  • by LearnVideo.live, a free, one-hour,

  • online training on how to grow a highly influential

  • and profitable YouTube channel this year.

  • To get free access, just go to LearnVideo.live.

  • - Hey, what's up, guys, Sean here with video influencers,

  • help you build your influence, income and impact

  • with online video, and I'm super pumped

  • to be standing here today with Jordan Harbinger.

  • How's it going?

  • - Good, man, thanks for the opportunity.

  • - Pumped to have you on the show.

  • We're here at Social Media Marketing World in San Diego.

  • And we're gonna be talking

  • about how to level up your content,

  • and, really, actually, with some body language

  • things and also how to interview people better.

  • Jordan's done over 700 interviews.

  • He's actually had one of the longest-running

  • interview shows, over a decade, and over 200 million

  • downloads on his podcast.

  • So he knows a lot, and I'm pumped to be learning

  • from you today.

  • - Yeah, I'm excited to be here, man.

  • There's a lot of stuff I've learned through mistakes,

  • and I would love to share a lot of those mistakes.

  • - I'm pumped.

  • Well, let's talk about content first.

  • - Sure. - Because, you know, we've

  • all heard the phrase, content is king.

  • - Yes. - You're a content creator

  • yourself, but not all content is created equal.

  • Not every interview show is

  • created equal. - That's true.

  • - And you've learned a lot about content.

  • I was even listening to your show recently,

  • which is great, and we'll talk about that later.

  • But you were talking about also how much

  • effort you put into it.

  • So break down some of the things you think

  • that makes great standout content.

  • - Sure.

  • When I first started interviewing,

  • I thought, you know, I'm totally faking my way through this.

  • I'm entertaining a little bit.

  • I feel like I'm kinda smart, so I can wing it,

  • and I'm doing a really good job winging it.

  • But one time years ago, I read the book

  • for the guest and then I read another one

  • of his books, and I thought this is a really good writer.

  • I'm really enjoying this.

  • So I did an interview with him,

  • and he said, "Wow, this is one of the best

  • "interviews that I've done in years.

  • "Why did this take so long?"

  • And the answer, truthfully, was,

  • well, I didn't feel like I could

  • do a good interview, 'cause I never

  • read any of your stuff.

  • I didn't tell him that, but then I decided,

  • I thought, look, if I read all of the books

  • and I go through the Wikipedia and I've researched

  • the guest and I go through their bio

  • and then I look at other interviews that they've done,

  • I can do a better interview than anyone else

  • has done, because I outworked them.

  • 'Cause I used to think, uh, it's talent.

  • It's just working hard.

  • You gotta be funny or entertaining.

  • No, you can outwork people,

  • and then you can create something better.

  • The problem is, most of us, we don't really

  • want to outwork people.

  • We just kinda wanna put more content

  • out there, see what sticks to the wall,

  • and then rinse and repeat until we are internet famous.

  • - That's powerful.

  • So you just thought I'm gonna put more work into it.

  • - Yeah. - I'm not just gonna

  • wing this.

  • I'm gonna do my research.

  • I'm gonna go deep.

  • Well, that's awesome, but let's actually

  • take a step back because I want to get

  • your tips on interviews, but how did this

  • whole thing start for you?

  • What was your story of getting into interviews

  • and even getting to where you are today?

  • - Yeah, so I used to be an attorney,

  • and that was as exciting as it sounds.

  • And I knew that I wasn't,

  • speaking of outworking people,

  • I knew I wasn't the smartest guy at that law firm.

  • I was trying to outwork people,

  • but now I'm at Wall Street at a law firm,

  • everybody's working 20 hours a day.

  • I'm not outworking these people.

  • I'm not gonna make myself smarter fast enough

  • for my career to take off.

  • And then I thought, wait a minute.

  • If I don't have a competitive advantage,

  • probably gonna get fired.

  • And so I wanted to work from home

  • because I thought if I work from home,

  • they won't know that I don't belong here.

  • So one of the partners was never in the office,

  • and I thought, okay, I'm gonna ask this guy

  • how he got to work from home,

  • 'cause he's never in the office.

  • So I cornered him one day.

  • I was like, hey, Dave, how come you're

  • never in the office?

  • You know, do you just work from home a lot,

  • thinking I'm gonna get the secret phrase

  • you tell the rest of the partners

  • so that you don't have to come to the office.

  • And he goes, "No, I'm bringing in deals.

  • "I'm creating relationships."

  • And then I thought well, if I can learn

  • to do that, I'll have a new competitive advantage,

  • so I decided to go out and practice body language

  • and psychology and all these books that

  • I was reading on networking.

  • And I started working on that stuff,

  • and I started teaching other people that stuff

  • because they were interested.

  • And then I was burning CDs.

  • This is how old this was.

  • Burning CDs, putting them in my pocket,

  • and when someone would go, hey, how come

  • you seem to know everybody at this bar?

  • Or how come you got this offer for this cool thing?

  • I would whip out one of my fancy burned CDs

  • and hand it to them.

  • Then one time, a friend of mine goes,

  • "Why don't you just put this up as a podcast?

  • "I heard this new thing about podcasting.

  • "You should try it."

  • I went to the iTunes store,

  • and there were 800 shows in there,

  • and I went, 800 shows, no one's ever gonna find this!

  • So I uploaded the first episode of the podcast,

  • really enjoyed it, started interviewing

  • people out of laziness.

  • I was creating my own content,

  • and then I went oh, this is hard.

  • Maybe if I interview somebody,

  • they'll do the work, and I can just

  • sit there and go cool, all right, amazing, right?

  • And so I started doing that,

  • and I did that for years.

  • And people were like this is really interesting content.

  • I realized I was the weakest link

  • because I was good at finding guests,

  • but I wasn't really doing anything special,

  • and the competition was heating up

  • with more and more shows.

  • So I started to outwork and work harder,

  • because that was the only thing I knew how to do.

  • I don't know how to get smarter that much faster

  • than the normal pace, but I do know how

  • to outwork people.

  • And I figured if that's my competitive advantage,

  • along with the relationships that I'm creating,

  • then I can put that into a really good show.

  • And that's what I've been doing for the last

  • 12 years, 11 years.

  • - Man, that's so powerful,

  • and as podcasting with the Art of Charm

  • and now the Jordan Harbinger Show,

  • you've interviewed over 700 people.

  • - Yes. - Let's talk about how

  • to do an interview show.

  • Obviously, we're doing one right now.

  • This is kinda meta.

  • - You're nailing it. - But there's many people

  • in our community that should be interviewing

  • guests, maybe already have interview shows.

  • What are some of the lessons that you've learned

  • and maybe some of the biggest mistakes

  • that people make when it comes to interviews?

  • - First things first, like I said,

  • it took me five or six years to realize

  • that I should know the guest's work,

  • never as well as they do, but damn close, right.

  • Read the freaking book, you know.

  • I know that sounds really simple,

  • but people are lazy.

  • They won't do that.

  • But here's the upside.

  • You don't have to have a PhD in whatever

  • they're teaching, you just have to know

  • it well enough to have an intelligent

  • conversation with them.

  • That will make you already better

  • than 95% of other content creators out there.

  • Then, once you read that, I've got a couple tricks

  • that I'll let you all in on on how

  • to get some inside info on a guest.

  • I go to Wikipedia.

  • Obviously, Wikipedia, wealth of knowledge,

  • that's not what I mean.

  • Go to the talk page.

  • Do you know what a talk page

  • is on Wikipedia? - I don't, actually.

  • - On Wikipedia, there's the article, right,

  • where it's like oh, Jordan Harbinger,

  • he's a lawyer, now he does a show.

  • Nobody cares.

  • It's like a two little bio.

  • There's a talk page, which is where the super geeky

  • Wikipedia people yell at each other

  • about what goes in the article.

  • And it's kind of all undercover,

  • and they're like delete this.

  • No, I heard this happened.

  • Where's the proof?

  • Oh, there isn't any.

  • Another guy's like I was there, it did happen.

  • It's not in the article, but you can get

  • these little bits of data that are just nowhere else.

  • - Yeah, that's awesome.

  • - And when you're reading the book

  • and things like that, if you can go

  • into the social media and look for the people

  • they thanked, search for the people they thanked.

  • And then search for that person's name together

  • and often you'll find some ancient video

  • on like MetaCrawler or whatever.

  • If that even still exists. - Sure, sure.

  • - Where it's like Gary Vaynerchuk,

  • and he's like 28, and he's being mentored

  • by some other random person.

  • No one has that bit of data.

  • You can write down what's in there,

  • and you can bring that up.

  • And once you trigger nostalgia in the guest,

  • they're gonna be blown away.

  • They're gonna want to open up,

  • talk about it, because they want

  • to relive those emotions.

  • And they're doing it with you on your program.

  • Nobody's gonna dig that deep.

  • If you can out-prepare 90, 95% of the people,

  • you're gonna do a much, much better job.

  • - That's so powerful and very tactical.

  • Thank you for sharing that.

  • Speak to some of the mistakes.

  • You have done 700 interviews.

  • Those first couple, you were mentioning some things.

  • You put a lotta work in,

  • but what are some other things maybe,

  • who knows, interrupting?

  • I mean, what do people do that,

  • or what are some of the mistakes that you make

  • that you hear other interviewers maybe

  • just irks you too.

  • - Yeah, so early on in the interview game,

  • I wasn't trying to do any sort of internet business.

  • I wasn't trying to be like internet celebrity

  • Jordan Harbinger, right.

  • I didn't care.

  • So the interviews were okay.

  • I was a beginner, but they were okay.

  • Then I went, oh, I need to brand myself.

  • I need to brand myself as an expert.

  • So instead of creating my own content,

  • which is what you're supposed to freakin'

  • do if you want to brand yourself as an expert,

  • what I was doing was going

  • oh, that's interesting, Sean.

  • Let me talk about myself for like 20 minutes

  • in the middle of this interview.

  • And I started getting feedback from listeners

  • that went Jordan, you're here every week.

  • We hear you.

  • Let the guest talk.

  • That's why they're there.

  • At first, my ego resisted that,

  • and I was like, it's my show.

  • I'm gonna talk about whatever I want,

  • and if that subject is me, so be it.

  • And then you see people go, cool, I'm gonna go

  • somewhere else where the guest gets to talk.

  • That's a hard lesson to learn.

  • A few years of doing that,

  • or a few months of doing that, if you're smarter than me,

  • which many people are, should teach you that lesson.

  • But later on, when you realize look, I am here every week,

  • if I'm gonna throw in an anecdote,

  • make it good for the audience.

  • So my rubric or measure now is

  • I'm an advocate for the audience.

  • I'm not trying to be friends with the guest.

  • I'm not trying to get them to like me.

  • I'm not trying to make myself look good.

  • That will either happen over time

  • or it won't, but if you advocate for the guest,

  • you are their eyes, their ears,

  • you're asking the questions for them,

  • you're making sure they get value,

  • practical exercises, et cetera,

  • which I want practicals in every episode,

  • takeaways they can use.

  • If you're thinking about that,

  • you'll do a good interview.

  • If you're thinking about how to look good

  • or be cool or be friends with the guest,

  • you're gonna blow it because you're gonna

  • be thinking about what's good for you

  • or what's good for the guest

  • instead of what's good for the audience.

  • - Woo, some fire tips right there.

  • After doing all these interviews,

  • especially as it relates to,

  • especially building your influence and persuasion

  • and charm and things like that,

  • one of the things that our audience is doing,

  • of course it's on video, and they're trying

  • to come across, of course persuasively.

  • They want to have confidence.

  • They want to project, you know,

  • the presence they want to deliver,

  • but when you get in front of a camera,

  • it's intimidating.

  • - Of course.

  • - What are some of your tips when it comes

  • to body language and really having authority

  • and just being yourself but being your best self on camera.

  • - Yeah, so this took me a long time to learn.

  • In fact, even still, when I get a new mic,

  • I'm always like oh, hello there.

  • The nerves do creep in.

  • That's gonna happen.

  • That's gonna be normal for you.

  • Unless you are an expert video personality,

  • you're gonna have these issues,

  • whether or not you're just audio or even video.

  • So what I like to do is give people

  • the following drill.

  • This is called the doorway drill.

  • The reason this is powerful is because

  • if I'm trying to micromanage my body language,

  • I'm like oh, okay, gotta look relaxed right now.

  • Everybody relax.

  • - I'm not sure what to do with my hands.

  • - Good point, yeah. - It does not work.

  • So you have to relegate and delegate your body

  • language to the sort of subconscious level

  • so it happens automatically,

  • because otherwise, you go, all right,

  • I look good.

  • I'm standing up straight.

  • I look confident.

  • And then you go to a networking event

  • or something like that and suddenly

  • you just go back into computer-all-day mode.

  • And that's a problem.

  • You can't micromanage your body language.

  • It just doesn't work.

  • It's really hard to monitor that

  • and also be present in a conversation.

  • So every time you walk through a doorway,

  • in your own house, in your office,

  • whatever you do the most, straighten up,

  • so shoulders back, chin up, chest up.

  • I mean, you're already doin' it.

  • You're good, you're good, right.

  • - Okay. - And you don't have

  • to do this.

  • Don't do the Superman. - Sure, sure.

  • - You'll look like a weirdo.

  • - Just stand up straight. - Exactly.

  • - Get the hunch back up.

  • - Get the hunch back, and put a smile on your face.

  • It always helps.

  • It'll look a little plastic at first,

  • but you'll get used to it

  • as it becomes your default.

  • Now, the problem is, I can tell you

  • to do that every time you walk through a doorway,

  • and then you're gonna walk through a doorway

  • in two seconds and forget all about it.

  • And you're never gonna build the habit.

  • So get those little Post-It Notes, the tiny ones,

  • the green ones or the purple ones or whatever.

  • You don't have to write anything on them.

  • Put them up at eye level

  • in the doorframe at home, at work, in the office.

  • What that'll do is it'll pattern interrupt you.

  • So when you walk through the doorway,

  • you go why is there a?

  • Oh, right, there's a Post-It Note there.

  • - And you're gonna, yeah. - Oh, okay, right.

  • It's there because I need to straighten up.

  • So every time you walk through the doorway,

  • you're building that subconscious habit.

  • Then, when you do walk into Starbucks,

  • your next meeting, the boardroom,

  • some networking event, your body language,

  • by default, is upright, positive and confident.

  • And then you don't have to think about it.

  • Now, not only does that help you

  • become a little bit more confident,

  • it causes other people to treat you

  • in a different way than they would normally.

  • So if people are treating you in a different way,

  • that informs how you think about yourself,

  • which, of course, is a virtuous cycle

  • that lets you relax a little bit more,

  • be more positive, open and confident,

  • and then it's constantly reinforcing it.

  • Eventually, you can tear the Post-It Notes down

  • because you've essentially had a core

  • identity level shift. - Complete change.

  • - From freakin' Post-It Notes, man.

  • - That's super powerful, and then, of course,

  • that's gonna change your presence on camera.

  • That could definitely move the needle.

  • Man, that's a great tip.

  • Well, Jordan, are you ready for the lightning round?

  • - I am.

  • - Choo choo.

  • - Boom.

  • - Boom.

  • - Or slice maybe would've been better.

  • - Slice and dice. - That was not a boom.

  • That was not a boom motion.

  • (electronic beep)

  • - Coffee or tea?

  • - Coffee.

  • - Cat or dog?

  • - Cat.

  • - NYC or LA?

  • - NYC.

  • - Last song you had on repeat.

  • - Oh, God.

  • This is gonna be embarrassing.

  • It was probably, ugh, it was that stupid Friday song.

  • And I had it on repeat for a reason

  • that nobody cares about right now.

  • Friday, Friday

  • Gettin' down on Friday

  • Down on Friday

  • - All right, okay.

  • If you could only have one item

  • that you could grab or get in during a zombie apocalypse,

  • what would it be?

  • What would your go-to item or weapon be?

  • - I would say a machete.

  • - That's it?

  • - I like it up close and personal, man.

  • - You know what I'm saying?

  • - Yeah.

  • - If you look back and you think about maybe

  • a past failure or mistake that you made

  • that led to your future success,

  • what would that be?

  • And do you have maybe a favorite failure?

  • - Yeah.

  • When I started the Art of Charm a long time ago,

  • I let people get away with little things

  • that I thought oh, eventually we'll fix

  • this because we'll make more money

  • or we'll improve this or we'll work

  • this out together.

  • But instead of handling the problem

  • in the moment, I just kinda pushed it off

  • and thought later this will be something we can fix.

  • And those rifts grew so big

  • that eventually it was kind of like

  • you leave the cap off the toothpaste

  • and somebody's gettin' stabbed.

  • Handle problems early.

  • Make sure that you nip 'em in the bud

  • because they will get worse.

  • Money's not gonna fix it,

  • a bigger presence, a bigger audience

  • is not gonna fix it, scaling up

  • is not gonna fix it.

  • Handle it early.

  • One of the reasons I split from the Art of Charm

  • and started the Jordan Harbinger Show

  • was because all of these little problems

  • grew for so freaking long that by the time

  • the last straw broke the camel's back,

  • there was just no way it was gonna get repaired.

  • - Favorite quote or maybe a phrase

  • that you think about often.

  • - Leave everything better than you found it.

  • - Love it.

  • No-miss morning ritual.

  • - Oh, man.

  • No-miss morning ritual?

  • I go for a walk for like an hour every morning.

  • It gets the blood flowing.

  • Sometimes I'll make a phone call

  • or listen to an audio book,

  • and, even if it's freezing, you know

  • you're gettin' your 10,000 steps in,

  • and then you don't feel like crap during the day.

  • - Yeah, I love that.

  • Favorite or bingeable Netflix show that you love?

  • - Uh, shoot.

  • Game of Thrones is not on Netflix,

  • but it should be.

  • - There you go.

  • That's a good one.

  • And then, finally, what is one book

  • that you recommend every influencer watching should read?

  • - I love the, well, this is cliche,

  • but screw it, How to Win Friends and Influence People.

  • Look, that thing was written in like 1938.

  • The principles are still solid.

  • Forget all the examples are about like

  • typewriter salesmen, go read that book

  • and realize that that was the beginning

  • of people going hey, you can learn to sort

  • of change your personality in a way

  • that will make you more effective.

  • And when you get to the root of that,

  • tehre's been very little that's been

  • iterated on since then in a useful way.

  • That was kinda the oh gee, you can change

  • yourself for the better book.

  • Well, maybe not the oh gee, depending

  • on which sort of faith you follow, but that was

  • one of the ones I picked.

  • - Awesome.

  • Well, Jordan, thank you so much

  • for being a part of the show.

  • What do you have going on?

  • And of course we're gonna link everything

  • up in the description below,

  • but where can people find you,

  • and what are you up to?

  • - Sure.

  • I'm at JordanHarbinger.com, but I do

  • the Jordan Harbinger Show.

  • It's a podcast that I am growing

  • out of 11 years of experience.

  • I interview everybody from CIA agents

  • to teach you how to read people,

  • body language, et cetera, all the way

  • to persuasion from hostage negotiators,

  • Larry King-type talk show hosts

  • and a little bit of a deep dive

  • into how I'm recovering from a business split

  • that I never thought I'd go through.

  • So there's a lot of really brutal honesty

  • that includes insight.

  • And I think that hopefully that's really

  • useful for people, especially in this line of work.

  • - Absolutely, and, actually, I'm a listener myself,

  • so I highly recommend the show.

  • Definitely jump on iTunes or wherever

  • you get your podcasts and subscribe

  • because I believe, you know, we want

  • to help you build your influence

  • here on this channel, and that is a great

  • show to check out.

  • Jordan, as an entrepreneur, you've definitely

  • been up, you've gone through some ups and downs.

  • You were mentioning even currently.

  • That's just the reality for any of us,

  • whether we're just starting.

  • There those times when we grind,

  • and this stuff is hard. - It is hard.

  • - And it can be discouraging.

  • Can you just share some final maybe

  • encouragement for our community

  • and any parting wisdom for those that

  • are influencers and entrepreneurs

  • to just keep going?

  • - Definitely.

  • When we look at other people doing

  • their thing on the internet like you,

  • me, whatever, one of the reasons I think

  • that recent episodes of the Jordan Harbinger Show

  • were powerful was because I shared

  • a lot of mistakes and failures.

  • Not in the way where it's like oh,

  • 10 years ago I made this little mistake,

  • and now I'm rich and famous.

  • No, that's not what I'm doing.

  • I'm doing it in real time.

  • And the reason that that's worked out really well

  • is because I think that we often compare

  • our blooper reel, personally, to other

  • people's highlight reel.

  • It's easy to go, oh, this person

  • on Instagram, they're doing all this cool stuff.

  • I'm never gonna get there.

  • But what you don't see is they had

  • the flu last week.

  • They blew their latest product launch.

  • They're not talkin' about that

  • because it's not good for business.

  • So when you look at other people's businesses,

  • realize you're getting a curated feed.

  • I know that we know this consciously,

  • but we gotta realize your blooper reel,

  • what's going on up here most of the time,

  • do not compare that to what other people

  • are putting out there as a business advertisement.

  • And when you realize that everybody has

  • a blooper reel, you're gonna start

  • to feel a little bit better

  • about actually making mistakes and having

  • real failures that you will later learn from.

  • - I love that.

  • My man, - Thank you.

  • - Appreciate you.

  • Influencers, subscribe if you're not subscribed.

  • If you want to check out another video

  • in our social media series, just click or tap

  • the screen over there or another video

  • from video influencers.

  • Until next time, remember on this channel,

  • we'll help you build your influence,

  • income and impact with online video.

  • Keep crushing it, and we will talk soon.

- In this video, I interview Jordan Harbinger,

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ジョーダン・ハービンジャーとプロのように人にインタビューする方法 (How to Interview People like a Pro with Jordan Harbinger)

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    James に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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