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>>> WELCOME BACK AND WHAT WE
>>> WELCOME BACK AND WHAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE THE TOP STORY
THOUGHT WOULD BE THE TOP STORY OF THE DAY AND IN SOME WAYS IT
OF THE DAY AND IN SOME WAYS IT MAY HAVE HELPED DRIVE THE STOP
MAY HAVE HELPED DRIVE THE STOP STORY OF THE DAY.
STORY OF THE DAY. U.S. AMBASSADOR GORDON SONDLAND.
U.S. AMBASSADOR GORDON SONDLAND. DESPITE THE PRESIDENT URGING
DESPITE THE PRESIDENT URGING THEM, IN SOME WAYS BEGGING THEM
THEM, IN SOME WAYS BEGGING THEM NOT TO COOPERATE.
NOT TO COOPERATE. DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN PETER
DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN PETER WELCH IS ON THE INTELLIGENCE AND
WELCH IS ON THE INTELLIGENCE AND OVERSIGHT COMMITTEES.
OVERSIGHT COMMITTEES. HE'S BEEN IN THE ROOM FOR MUCH
HE'S BEEN IN THE ROOM FOR MUCH OF SONDLAND'S TESTIMONY TODAY.
OF SONDLAND'S TESTIMONY TODAY. AND JUST FROM THE LETTER, FROM
AND JUST FROM THE LETTER, FROM THE OPENING STATEMENT THAT
THE OPENING STATEMENT THAT THE -- THAT WAS MADE PUBLIC,
THE -- THAT WAS MADE PUBLIC, CONGRESSMAN WELCH, I WANT TO PUT
CONGRESSMAN WELCH, I WANT TO PUT UP WHAT HE SAID ABOUT HIS --
UP WHAT HE SAID ABOUT HIS -- ABOUT THE PHONE CONVERSATION
ABOUT THE PHONE CONVERSATION WITH THE PRESIDENT.
WITH THE PRESIDENT. AND START OUR QUESTIONING FROM
AND START OUR QUESTIONING FROM THERE.
THERE. I CALLED PRESIDENT TRUMP
I CALLED PRESIDENT TRUMP DIRECTLY.
DIRECTLY. I ASKED THE PRESIDENT WHAT DO
I ASKED THE PRESIDENT WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM UKRAINE?
YOU WANT FROM UKRAINE? THE PRESIDENT RESPONDED NOTHING.
THE PRESIDENT RESPONDED NOTHING. THERE IS NO QUID PRO QUO.
THERE IS NO QUID PRO QUO. THE PRESIDENT REPEATED NO QUID
THE PRESIDENT REPEATED NO QUID PRO QUO MULTIPLE TIMES.
PRO QUO MULTIPLE TIMES. THIS WAS A VERY SHORT CALL AND I
THIS WAS A VERY SHORT CALL AND I RECALL THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS IN
RECALL THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS IN A BAD MOOD.
A BAD MOOD. CONGRESSMAN WELCH, GORDON
CONGRESSMAN WELCH, GORDON SONDLAND TODAY, DID HE PAINT A
SONDLAND TODAY, DID HE PAINT A PICTURE OF THE PRESIDENT CALLING
PICTURE OF THE PRESIDENT CALLING THE SHOTS HERE ON UKRAINE?
THE SHOTS HERE ON UKRAINE? OR OF RUDY GIULIANI CALLING THE
OR OF RUDY GIULIANI CALLING THE SHOTS HERE ON UKRAINE?
SHOTS HERE ON UKRAINE? >> WELL, AS YOU KNOW, HIS
>> WELL, AS YOU KNOW, HIS TESTIMONY IS CONTINUING BUT HIS
TESTIMONY IS CONTINUING BUT HIS OPENING STATEMENT WHICH IS
OPENING STATEMENT WHICH IS PUBLIC MADE IT VERY, VERY CLEAR
PUBLIC MADE IT VERY, VERY CLEAR THAT GIULIANI WAS IN CHARGE OF
THAT GIULIANI WAS IN CHARGE OF THE REAL UKRAINE POLICY.
THE REAL UKRAINE POLICY. IN SOME WAYS, SONDLAND WAS A
IN SOME WAYS, SONDLAND WAS A PERFECT PERSON TO BE THE
PERFECT PERSON TO BE THE AMBASSADOR BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY
AMBASSADOR BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY HE WAS A HUGE CONTRIBUTOR.
HE WAS A HUGE CONTRIBUTOR. HE GOT HIMSELF AN
HE GOT HIMSELF AN AMBASSADORSHIP.
AMBASSADORSHIP. HE KNEW VERY LITTLE ABOUT
HE KNEW VERY LITTLE ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY.
FOREIGN POLICY. SO HE ACTUALLY THOUGHT HE WAS
SO HE ACTUALLY THOUGHT HE WAS DOING THE PRESIDENT'S WORK ON
DOING THE PRESIDENT'S WORK ON UKRAINE AND IT WAS ONLY AFTER
UKRAINE AND IT WAS ONLY AFTER THE FACT WHEN HE READ ABOUT THE
THE FACT WHEN HE READ ABOUT THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE CALL AND HE
TRANSCRIPT OF THE CALL AND HE SAW SOME OF THOSE TEXTS THAT HE
SAW SOME OF THOSE TEXTS THAT HE REALIZED THAT WHAT REALLY RUDY
REALIZED THAT WHAT REALLY RUDY GIULIANI WAS DOING, WHO HE KNEW
GIULIANI WAS DOING, WHO HE KNEW WAS IN CHARGE, WAS NOT THE
WAS IN CHARGE, WAS NOT THE FOREIGN POLICY THAT HE THOUGHT
FOREIGN POLICY THAT HE THOUGHT HE WAS PURSUING WAS ABOUT.
HE WAS PURSUING WAS ABOUT. >> CONGRESSMAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE
>> CONGRESSMAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU THINK GORDON SONDLAND WAS
YOU THINK GORDON SONDLAND WAS DUPED BY THE PRESIDENT AND
DUPED BY THE PRESIDENT AND GIULIANI.
GIULIANI. >> HE WAS.
>> HE WAS. >> YOU THINK HE WAS DUPED.
>> YOU THINK HE WAS DUPED. YEAH.
YEAH. >> HE WAS THRILLED TO BE AN
>> HE WAS THRILLED TO BE AN AMBASSADOR.
AMBASSADOR. YOU KNOW, HE MADE HUGE
YOU KNOW, HE MADE HUGE CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE TRUMP
CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THERE IS A HISTORY
CAMPAIGN AND THERE IS A HISTORY IN THIS COUNTRY, REPUBLICANS AND
IN THIS COUNTRY, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, OF PAYING OFF SOME
DEMOCRATS, OF PAYING OFF SOME CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTORS WITH AN
CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTORS WITH AN AMBASSADORSHIP.
AMBASSADORSHIP. SO HE HAD THE BEST OF
SO HE HAD THE BEST OF INTENTIONS.
INTENTIONS. I DON'T DOUBT THAT WHATSOEVER.
I DON'T DOUBT THAT WHATSOEVER. BUT HE, UNLIKE SOME OF THE
BUT HE, UNLIKE SOME OF THE OTHERS, KNEW HOW FOREIGN POLICY
OTHERS, KNEW HOW FOREIGN POLICY WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK.
WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK. SO THEY HAD A KIND OF SKEPTICISM
SO THEY HAD A KIND OF SKEPTICISM THAT HE WASN'T ABLE TO BRING TO
THAT HE WASN'T ABLE TO BRING TO THE JOB.
THE JOB. SO HE WAS THRILLED TO BE ON THE
SO HE WAS THRILLED TO BE ON THE SCENE.
SCENE. HE THOUGHT HE WAS DOING WHAT HE
HE THOUGHT HE WAS DOING WHAT HE COULD TO ADVANCE AMERICA'S
COULD TO ADVANCE AMERICA'S INTEREST.
INTEREST. BUT WHAT HE DID KNOW WAS THAT IT
BUT WHAT HE DID KNOW WAS THAT IT WAS GIULIANI WHO HAD TO CALL THE
WAS GIULIANI WHO HAD TO CALL THE FINAL SHOTS, NOT HIM.
FINAL SHOTS, NOT HIM. >> WHAT WE LEARNED FROM MICK
>> WHAT WE LEARNED FROM MICK MULVANEY TODAY WHERE HE ADMITTED
MULVANEY TODAY WHERE HE ADMITTED TO AT LEAST ONE PART OF THE QUID
TO AT LEAST ONE PART OF THE QUID PRO QUO AND THAT THEY WERE
PRO QUO AND THAT THEY WERE ASKING FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO
ASKING FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE SERVER CONSPIRACY.
THE SERVER CONSPIRACY. IS THAT REAL-TIME DEVELOPMENT
IS THAT REAL-TIME DEVELOPMENT HAD AN IMPACT ON THE QUESTIONING
HAD AN IMPACT ON THE QUESTIONING OF MR. SONDLAND?
OF MR. SONDLAND? >> I'M NOT SURE IT WOULD HAVE
>> I'M NOT SURE IT WOULD HAVE MUCH AN IMPACT ON SONDLAND
MUCH AN IMPACT ON SONDLAND BECAUSE HE'S REALLY CONFIRMING
BECAUSE HE'S REALLY CONFIRMING WHAT WE KNOW.
WHAT WE KNOW. THAT THERE WAS THIS OFF THE
THAT THERE WAS THIS OFF THE BOOKS FORM
BOOKS FORM BOOKS FOREIGN POLICY THROUGH
BOOKS FOREIGN POLICY THROUGH GIULIANI.
GIULIANI. I THINK WHAT IS SIGNIFICANT
I THINK WHAT IS SIGNIFICANT ABOUT MULVANEY IS THE EXPLOSIVE
ABOUT MULVANEY IS THE EXPLOSIVE NATURE OF WHAT HE SAID.
NATURE OF WHAT HE SAID. ESSENTIALLY, TODAY, AND IT WILL
ESSENTIALLY, TODAY, AND IT WILL BE REMEMBERED, THE WHITE HOUSE
BE REMEMBERED, THE WHITE HOUSE WENT FROM WE DIDN'T DO IT TO SO
WENT FROM WE DIDN'T DO IT TO SO WHAT IF WE DID?
WHAT IF WE DID? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
IT? THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHERE THEY
THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHERE THEY ARE NOW.
ARE NOW. AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT WITH HIS
AND WHAT THE PRESIDENT WITH HIS ADMISSION THROUGH MULVANEY IS
ADMISSION THROUGH MULVANEY IS TRYING TO DO IS SAY THIS IS WHAT
TRYING TO DO IS SAY THIS IS WHAT EVERYBODY DOES.
EVERYBODY DOES. BUT WHAT'S DIFFERENT IS, SURE,
BUT WHAT'S DIFFERENT IS, SURE, THERE'S NEGOTIATION IN FOREIGN
THERE'S NEGOTIATION IN FOREIGN POLICY.
POLICY. BUT THE GOAL IS THE NATIONAL
BUT THE GOAL IS THE NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST OF THIS
SECURITY INTEREST OF THIS COUNTRY, NOT THE
COUNTRY, NOT THE PERSONAL/POLITICAL INTEREST OF
PERSONAL/POLITICAL INTEREST OF THE PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENS TO BE
THE PRESIDENT WHO HAPPENS TO BE OCCUPYING THE OVAL OFFICE.
OCCUPYING THE OVAL OFFICE. SO IT IS VERY, VERY SERIOUS AND
SO IT IS VERY, VERY SERIOUS AND IT'S GOING TO BE A REAL
IT'S GOING TO BE A REAL CHALLENGE I THINK TO MY
CHALLENGE I THINK TO MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES BECAUSE
REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT THE ADMISSION OF
YOU'VE GOT THE ADMISSION OF USING THE OFFICE OF THE
USING THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY IN A WAY THAT SUB
PRESIDENCY IN A WAY THAT SUB SUBVERTS NATIONAL SECURITY
SUBVERTS NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST TO ADVANCE YOUR OWN
INTEREST TO ADVANCE YOUR OWN CAMPAIGN.
CAMPAIGN. >> HOW HAS SONDLAND BEEN TREATED
>> HOW HAS SONDLAND BEEN TREATED BY THE COMMITTEE?
BY THE COMMITTEE? DO YOU FEEL LIKE HE'S BEEN
DO YOU FEEL LIKE HE'S BEEN FORTHCOMING?
FORTHCOMING? YOU SOUND VERY EMPATHETIC TO HIM
YOU SOUND VERY EMPATHETIC TO HIM A BIT.
A BIT. WHEN DO YOU FEEL LIKE HE KNEW HE
WHEN DO YOU FEEL LIKE HE KNEW HE WAS BEING USED?
WAS BEING USED? >> I'M NOT SURE BECAUSE HE SAID
>> I'M NOT SURE BECAUSE HE SAID IN HIS OPENING STATEMENT, AS YOU
IN HIS OPENING STATEMENT, AS YOU KNOW, THAT IT WAS ALL AFTER THE
KNOW, THAT IT WAS ALL AFTER THE FACT IS WHEN THAT PUBLICATION,
FACT IS WHEN THAT PUBLICATION, THE PHONE CALL CAME OUT.
THE PHONE CALL CAME OUT. IT'S WHEN THOSE TEXTS CAME OUT.
IT'S WHEN THOSE TEXTS CAME OUT. SO IT WAS LIKE TOO OBVIOUS FOR
SO IT WAS LIKE TOO OBVIOUS FOR HIM TO IGNORE.
HIM TO IGNORE. BUT I GOT THE SENSE -- HE WAS
BUT I GOT THE SENSE -- HE WAS TREATED VERY NICELY BY THE
TREATED VERY NICELY BY THE REPUBLICANS AND BY THE
REPUBLICANS AND BY THE DEMOCRATS.
DEMOCRATS. YOU KNOW, HE'S NOT THE ARCHITECT
YOU KNOW, HE'S NOT THE ARCHITECT OF THIS.
OF THIS. HE WAS ON THE PERIPHERY OF IT.
HE WAS ON THE PERIPHERY OF IT. EVEN THOUGH HE WAS IN ON THESE
EVEN THOUGH HE WAS IN ON THESE MEETINGS, HE JUST DIDN'T
MEETINGS, HE JUST DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THE REAL MEETING
UNDERSTAND THAT THE REAL MEETING WAS IN THE ROOM NEXT DOOR.
WAS IN THE ROOM NEXT DOOR. >> HOW DO YOU GUYS PLAN TO GET
>> HOW DO YOU GUYS PLAN TO GET THE WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF,
THE WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF, ACTING OR OTHERWISE, TO TESTIFY?
ACTING OR OTHERWISE, TO TESTIFY? BECAUSE I'M GUESSING YOU'RE
BECAUSE I'M GUESSING YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO HEAR FROM MR.
GOING TO WANT TO HEAR FROM MR. MULVANEY NOW AND HE'S GOING TO
MULVANEY NOW AND HE'S GOING TO HAVE THAT POWERFUL EXECUTIVE
HAVE THAT POWERFUL EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE ARGUMENT TO MAKE.
PRIVILEGE ARGUMENT TO MAKE. HOW IS THAT GOING TO WORK?
HOW IS THAT GOING TO WORK? >> YOU KNOW, AS A PRACTICAL
>> YOU KNOW, AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, I THINK IF HE ASSERTS --
MATTER, I THINK IF HE ASSERTS -- IF THE PRESIDENT ASSERTS
IF THE PRESIDENT ASSERTS EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE, IT'S GOING
EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE, IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH TO OVERCOME.
TO BE TOUGH TO OVERCOME. BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST TAKE
BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST TAKE WHAT IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
WHAT IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN. THE PRESIDENT'S RELEASE OF THE
THE PRESIDENT'S RELEASE OF THE TRANSCRIPT OF HIS CALL WITH THE
TRANSCRIPT OF HIS CALL WITH THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE.
PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE. MR. MULVANEY'S PRESS CONFERENCE
MR. MULVANEY'S PRESS CONFERENCE TODAY WHERE HE BASICALLY SAYS,
TODAY WHERE HE BASICALLY SAYS, SO WHAT?
SO WHAT? WE DID IT.
WE DID IT. THAT'S WHAT YOU DO.
THAT'S WHAT YOU DO. WELL, THAT'S NOT TRUE.
WELL, THAT'S NOT TRUE. THIS IS ILLEGAL CONDUCT THAT
THIS IS ILLEGAL CONDUCT THAT THEY ARE CONDONING.
THEY ARE CONDONING. SO DO WE REALLY NEED HIM TO SAY
SO DO WE REALLY NEED HIM TO SAY MORE THAN WHAT HE'S ALREADY SAID
MORE THAN WHAT HE'S ALREADY SAID PUBLICLY AND TO THE WHOLE
PUBLICLY AND TO THE WHOLE COUNTRY?
COUNTRY? >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. WELL, THAT'S A QUESTION SOME
WELL, THAT'S A QUESTION SOME PEOPLE ARE ASKING.
PEOPLE ARE ASKING. HOW MUCH MORE TIME DO YOU NEED
HOW MUCH MORE TIME DO YOU NEED TO INVESTIGATE BEFORE YOU START
TO INVESTIGATE BEFORE YOU START WRITING YOUR ARTICLES?
WRITING YOUR ARTICLES? >> WELL, THAT'S -- THERE IS A
>> WELL, THAT'S -- THERE IS A QUESTION THE COMMITTEE'S GOING
QUESTION THE COMMITTEE'S GOING TO HAVE TO ANSWER.
TO HAVE TO ANSWER. BUT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO DO
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO DO THE BEST WE CAN TO BE THOROUGH
THE BEST WE CAN TO BE THOROUGH BUT NOT DILATORY.
BUT NOT DILATORY. AND THAT'S WHAT CHAIRMAN SCHIFF
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Sondland Testimony: Clear That Giuliani Was In Charge Of The Real Ukraine Policy | MTP Daily | MSNBC

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ssh90204 2019 年 10 月 26 日 に公開
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