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  • >> Sreenivasan: THIS WEEK,

  • FACEBOOK BANNED SEVERAL HIGH

  • PROFILE ACCOUNTS THAT IT SAYS

  • ENGAGE IN VIOLENCE AND HATE,

  • INCLUDING WHITE SUPREMACISTS,

  • NATION OF ISLAM LEADER LOUIS

  • FARRAKHAN, AND A NUMBER OF

  • RIGHT-WING COMMENTATORS

  • INCLUDING ALEX JONES.

  • IN THE WAKE OF LIVE-STREAMED

  • ATTACKS AND PUBLISHED THREATS,

  • THERE ARE NEW CALLS FOR SOCIAL

  • MEDIA COMPANIES TO DO MORE TO

  • BLOCK EXTREMISM AND HATE.

  • AT FACEBOOK, THOUSANDS OF REAL

  • PEOPLE KNOWN AS MODERATORS ARE

  • THE FRONTLINES OF THIS BATTLE,

  • LOOKING AND LISTENING TO SOME

  • HORRIFIC MATERIAL.

  • I RECENTLY SPOKE WITH CASEY

  • NEWTON, SILICON VALLEY EDITOR

  • FOR "THE VERGE," WHO REPORTED ON

  • THE TOLL THIS CONTENT IS TAKING

  • ON FACEBOOK MODERATORS.

  • THIS IS NOT JUST IN THE CONTEXT

  • OF THE NEW ZEALAND ATTACKS.

  • THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS

  • STRUCTURALLY BUILT IN SO THAT

  • BASICALLY THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO

  • SEE THINGS ON FACEBOOK SO THAT

  • THE REST OF US DON'T HAVE TO,

  • RIGHT?

  • >> ANYTIME YOU SEE SOMETHING ON

  • FACEBOOK THAT YOU DON'T LIKE,

  • YOU CAN CLICK A BUTTON TO REPORT

  • IT.

  • AND IF YOU DO THAT, A HUMAN

  • BEING WILL LOOK AT IT AND

  • DETERMINE WHETHER IT VIOLATES

  • FACEBOOK'S COMMUNITY STANDARDS

  • OR NOT.

  • A LOT OF THE STUFF THEY SEE IS

  • BENIGN, BUT A LOT OF IT IS

  • REALLY SHOCKING AND DISTURBING,

  • AND SOME OF THAT CAN HAVE A

  • LONG-TERM TOLL ON THEIR LIVES.

  • >> Sreenivasan: SO, WHAT KIND OF

  • THINGS... WITHOUT GETTING TOO

  • GRAPHIC, WHAT KIND OF THINGS ARE

  • FACEBOOK MODERATORS LOOKING AT

  • PRETTY MUCH ALL DAY?

  • IT'S SHIFT WORK.

  • >> THAT'S RIGHT.

  • I MEAN, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT

  • FOLKS HAVE DESCRIBED TO ME WOULD

  • INCLUDE VIOLENCE FROM DRUG

  • CARTELS, MIGHT INCLUDE TERRORIST

  • CONTENT FROM ISIS, CHILD

  • EXPLOITATION, AND, YOU KNOW,

  • SORT OF EVERY FLAVOR OF VIOLENCE

  • THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE.

  • >> Sreenivasan: AND SO, THEY ARE

  • EXPECTED TO DO WHAT?

  • AND AT WHAT PACE AND WHAT SPEED

  • DO THEY LOOK AT THIS STUFF AND

  • DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH IT?

  • >> YEAH.

  • SO, THEIR GOAL FOR IMAGES IS TO

  • REMOVE THOSE WITHIN ABOUT 15

  • SECONDS.

  • AND WITH VIDEOS, IT'S ABOUT 30

  • SECONDS.

  • AND OVER THE COURSE OF THE DAY,

  • THEY MIGHT BE ASKED TO MAKE 300

  • DECISIONS, SOMETIMES EVEN 400

  • DECISIONS.

  • AND ONE OF THE REASONS THAT'S

  • VERY DIFFICULT IS BECAUSE THE

  • POLICY CHANGES ALMOST EVERY DAY

  • AS MODERATORS GET NEW GUIDANCE

  • ABOUT WHICH POSTS WILL AND WILL

  • NOT BE ALLOWED TO STAY UP.

  • WE SHOULD ALSO SAY THAT THEY ARE

  • EVALUATED BASED ON THEIR

  • ACCURACY.

  • SO, IF THEY TAKE SOMETHING DOWN

  • AND THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO,

  • THAT'S A BLACK MARK ON THEIR

  • RECORD.

  • AND IF THEY HAVE JUST A FEW OF

  • THOSE OVER A WEEK-LONG PERIOD,

  • THEY CAN BE FIRED.

  • >> Sreenivasan: SO, IS THERE A

  • FINE LINE ON WHAT IS AND WHAT IS

  • NOT ALLOWED ON FACEBOOK AS A

  • PLATFORM?

  • >> ABSOLUTELY.

  • IF YOU JUST READ THROUGH THE

  • GUIDELINES ON NUDITY, FOR

  • EXAMPLE-- SOMETHING THAT YOU

  • MIGHT THINK WOULD BE RELATIVELY

  • EASY TO DEFINE WHAT WOULD AND

  • WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED-- IT'S

  • ACTUALLY INCREDIBLY DETAILED.

  • IT'S A VERY LONG SECTION OF THE

  • GUIDELINES, AND IT GOES INTO

  • BREATHTAKING DETAIL ABOUT

  • EXACTLY WHICH BODY PARTS AND HOW

  • MUCH OF WHICH BODY PARTS CAN BE

  • DEPICTED IN A PHOTO OR VIDEO.

  • AND THEN, OF COURSE, THERE ARE

  • DOZENS OF OTHER CATEGORIES THAT

  • MODERATORS NEED TO FAMILIARIZE

  • THEMSELVES WITH AND THEN NEVER

  • MAKE A MISTAKE.

  • >> Sreenivasan: IN THAT CASE,

  • YOU CAN TECHNICALLY SEE WHAT'S

  • HAPPENING.

  • SOMETIMES IT'S AUDIO, AS WELL.

  • I MEAN, IS THERE... IS THERE A

  • LINE WHAT YOU CAN HEAR, WHAT YOU

  • CAN SEE, WHAT'S IMPLIED, AND

  • THEN WHAT'S FREEDOM OF SPEECH?

  • >> EXACTLY.

  • WELL, YOU KNOW, SO, WHAT YOU'RE

  • GETTING AT IS THAT WE'RE ASKING

  • THESE FOLKS TO MAKE JUDGMENT

  • CALLS, RIGHT?

  • IF YOU ACCEPT THAT MUCH OF OUR

  • POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS NOW TAKE

  • PLACE ON SOCIAL NETWORKS, THEN

  • THE FOLKS WHO ARE MODERATING

  • THIS CONTENT ARE ESSENTIALLY

  • FIRST RESPONDERS.

  • THEY'RE ON THE FRONT LINES, AND

  • WE'VE ENTRUSTED THEM WITH THESE

  • REALLY FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS OF

  • SAFETY AND SECURITY.

  • AND WHILE WE'VE GIVEN THEM

  • VOLUMINOUS GUIDELINES FROM WHICH

  • TO APPLY THE POLICY, THE TRUTH

  • IS THAT SOME OF THESE ARE ALWAYS

  • GOING TO BE JUDGMENT CALLS.

  • I HAD MODERATORS TELL ME ABOUT

  • CASES WHERE THEY WOULD BE TOLD

  • TO TAKE A POST DOWN, AND THEY

  • WOULD DO THAT AND THEN LATER

  • THEY WOULD BE TOLD, "OH, NO, NO,

  • LEAVE IT BACK UP."

  • AND THEN, HOURS LATER, TAKE IT

  • BACK DOWN AGAIN.

  • IT'S THAT KIND OF INTRICATE OF A

  • DECISION-MAKING PROCESS.

  • IT'S VERY FAST, IT'S VERY FLUID,

  • AND FOLKS JUST CHANGE THEIR

  • MINDS.

  • SO, IT'S INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT

  • WORK THAT, OF COURSE, IS ALSO

  • VERY LOW PAID.

  • >> Sreenivasan: NOW, THESE ARE

  • JUST A FEW THOUSAND PEOPLE IN

  • ONE LOCATION OR ANOTHER, BUT

  • THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY GOING OUT

  • AND SEEING ALL THE PAGES THAT

  • EXIST ON FACEBOOK.

  • THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE.

  • SO, THERE'S, WHAT, AN ALGORITHM

  • THAT'S KIND OF SORTING IT

  • THROUGH AND THEN KIND OF PUTTING

  • IT UP ON A SILVER PLATTER TO

  • THEM?

  • >> THAT'S RIGHT.

  • SO, IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU

  • DON'T LIKE ON FACEBOOK, YOU CAN

  • CLICK A BUTTON TO REPORT IT, AND

  • ALL OF THAT GOES INTO A BIG

  • QUEUE.

  • AND THEN, THAT GETS SERVED UP TO

  • THESE MODERATORS, OFTEN IN NO

  • PARTICULAR ORDER.

  • SO, THEY SIT DOWN AT THEIR DESK,

  • THEY CLICK A BUTTON THAT SAYS

  • "RESUME REVIEWING" INSIDE A

  • CUSTOM PIECE OF SOFTWARE THAT

  • FACEBOOK HAS, AND THEN THEY JUST

  • START SEEING THIS MASS OF POSTS.

  • AND SOME OF THEM WILL BE VERY

  • SIMPLE BULLYING, SOME OF THEM

  • WILL BE VERY BENIGN, AND THEN

  • SOME OF THEM WILL BE INCREDIBLY

  • DISTURBING.

  • >> Sreenivasan: TELL ME A LITTLE

  • BIT ABOUT THE KIND OF RIPPLE

  • EFFECTS AND THE CONSEQUENCES

  • OF... I MEAN, YOU TALKED TO A

  • LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE FOR THIS

  • STORY, SOME WITH THE BLESSING

  • OF THE EMPLOYER AND THEN QUITE A

  • FEW WHO SPOKE TO YOU ON KIND OF

  • THE CONDITION OF ANONYMITY.

  • >> THAT'S RIGHT.

  • AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT

  • FACEBOOK REQUIRES ALL OF THESE

  • FOLKS TO SIGN A NONDISCLOSURE

  • AGREEMENT.

  • THAT HAS SOME BENEFITS.

  • IT DISCOURAGES THEM FROM TALKING

  • ABOUT PERSONAL INFORMATION OF

  • FACEBOOK USERS, AND IT ALSO

  • PROTECTS THEIR SAFETY.

  • FACEBOOK, YOU KNOW, IF FOLKS

  • KNEW THAT THEY WERE MODERATING

  • CONTENT FOR FACEBOOK-- MAYBE

  • FACEBOOK REMOVED ONE OF THEIR

  • POSTS-- YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT

  • THAT COULD LEAD TO SOME... SOME

  • PRETTY UGLY CONFRONTATION.

  • SO, THOSE N.D.A.s HAVE A

  • POSITIVE SIDE TO THEM, BUT THEY

  • ALSO HAVE A NEGATIVE SIDE WHICH

  • IS THAT A LOT OF THE FOLKS THAT

  • I SPOKE WITH SAID THEY DIDN'T

  • EVEN FEEL COMFORTABLE TALKING

  • ABOUT THEIR WORK WITH THEIR...

  • THEIR PARTNERS, THEIR SPOUSES,

  • THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS, THEIR

  • CLOSE FRIENDS BECAUSE THEY WERE

  • WORRIED THAT THEY WOULD BE HELD

  • LEGALLY LIABLE FOR VIOLATING

  • THIS N.D.A.

  • AND WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE KIND

  • OF CONTENT THAT THEY'RE LOOKING

  • AT AND HOW DEPRESSING AND

  • UPSETTING SOME OF THAT CONTENT

  • IS, THAT CAN PUT SOME OF THEM

  • INTO A VERY DARK PLACE, RIGHT,

  • WHERE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY

  • CAN'T... THEY DON'T HAVE ANYONE

  • THAT THEY CAN TALK TO.

  • SO, I TALKED TO A NUMBER OF

  • FOLKS WHO TOLD ME THAT THEY HAD

  • DEVELOPED SYMPTOMS THAT CLOSELY

  • RESEMBLE POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS

  • DISORDER.

  • AND THEN, IN ANOTHER SORT OF

  • STRANGE TWIST, A LOT OF THE

  • MODERATORS I SPOKE WITH SAID

  • THAT THE MORE THAT THEY REVIEWED

  • CONTENT ABOUT SORT OF FRINGE

  • CONSPIRACY THEORIES, THE MORE

  • THEY THEMSELVES CAME TO BELIEVE

  • IT.

  • AND SO, A LOT OF THE MODERATORS

  • I'VE SPOKEN WITH NOW BELIEVE IN

  • SOME OF THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES

  • THAT THEY'D BEEN ASKED TO

  • MODERATE.

  • >> Sreenivasan: YOU KNOW, THIS

  • IS YOU... THERE'S A PARAGRAPH

  • FROM YOUR STORY I WANT TO QUOTE:

  • "THE MODERATORS TOLD ME IT'S A

  • PLACE WHERE THE CONSPIRACY

  • VIDEOS AND MEMES THEY SEE EACH

  • DAY GRADUALLY LEAD THEM TO

  • EMBRACE FRINGE VIEWS.

  • ONE AUDITOR WALKS THE FLOOR

  • PROMOTING THE IDEA THAT THE

  • EARTH IS FLAT.

  • A FORMER EMPLOYEE TOLD ME HE HAS

  • BEGUN TO QUESTION CERTAIN

  • ASPECTS OF THE HOLOCAUST.

  • ANOTHER FORMER EMPLOYEE WHO TOLD

  • ME HE HAS MAPPED EVERY ESCAPE

  • ROUTE OUT OF HIS HOUSE AND

  • SLEEPS WITH A GUN AT HIS SIDE,

  • SAID, 'I NO LONGER BELIEVE 9/11

  • WAS A TERRORIST ATTACK,' AND

  • THIS IS A RESULT OF THE JOB THAT

  • THEY'RE DOING EVERY DAY."

  • >> YEAH.

  • YEAH, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

  • I MEAN, AND CERTAINLY FOR ME AS

  • A REPORTER, YOU KNOW, AND WE

  • SHOULD SAY THERE'S BEEN SOME

  • GREAT REPORTING ABOUT CONTENT

  • MODERATORS IN THE PAST AND A

  • VARIETY OF OTHER OUTLETS.

  • A LOT OF IT IS LINKED IN MY

  • PIECE.

  • BUT THAT PASSAGE THAT YOU READ

  • CONTAINED SOME OF THE STUFF THAT

  • SURPRISED ME THE MOST IN MY

  • REPORTING.

  • IT WAS SOME STUFF THAT I DON'T

  • THINK HAS REALLY BEEN EXPLORED

  • BEFORE.

  • AND THAT'S THE LONG-TERM EFFECT

  • THAT THIS WORK CAN HAVE ON

  • FOLKS.

  • AND, YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND THAT

  • MANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT I'VE

  • SPOKE WITH ONLY DO THIS JOB FOR

  • ABOUT A YEAR.

  • THAT'S ABOUT AS LONG AS THEY CAN

  • HANDLE IT.

  • NOT ALL OF THEM MAKE IT THAT

  • LONG.

  • OTHER FOLKS GET FIRED DURING

  • TRAINING, FOR EXAMPLE.

  • AND SO, YOU MIGHT DO THIS JOB

  • FOR, YOU KNOW, EIGHT WEEKS, TEN

  • WEEKS, 12 WEEKS, MAKING $15 AN

  • HOUR.

  • YOU GET FIRED OR YOU LEAVE

  • BECAUSE IT'S TOO UPSETTING, AND

  • YOU'RE GOING TO THEN HAVE

  • LASTING PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA,

  • WHICH, OF COURSE, FACEBOOK IS

  • NOT GOING TO PAY FOR YOU TO GO

  • GET TREATMENT FOR THAT.

  • >> Sreenivasan: YEAH.

  • I WAS GOING TO SAY, LET'S JUST

  • CLARIFY HERE.

  • THE COMPANY THAT YOU WENT AND

  • PROFILED, THIS IS NOT FACEBOOK

  • ITSELF.

  • THIS IS BASICALLY LIKE A

  • SUBCONTRACTOR, RIGHT?

  • SO, FACEBOOK WRITES A CHECK TO

  • THESE FOLKS, AND THESE FOLKS ARE

  • AT A SEPARATE COMPANY

  • ALTOGETHER.

  • >> THAT'S RIGHT.

  • SO, FACEBOOK AND OTHER TECH

  • PLATFORMS USE THIS KIND OF CALL

  • CENTER MODEL OF CONTENT

  • MODERATION.

  • SO, THERE'S A LARGE HANDFUL OF

  • COMPANIES AROUND THE WORLD, AND

  • THEIR PRIMARY EXPERTISE IS JUST

  • IN FINDING PEOPLE AND QUICKLY

  • PLUGGING THEM INTO THE SYSTEM.

  • SO, THE ONE THAT I SPOKE WITH

  • WAS A COMPANY CALLED COGNIZANT

  • WHICH HAS A BUNCH OF SITES.

  • THERE'S ANOTHER ONE CALLED

  • JENPACK.

  • THERE'S ANOTHER ONE CALLED

  • ACCENTURE, AND THEY ALL WORK IN

  • BASICALLY THE SAME WAY.

  • FACEBOOK WRITES THEM A BIG

  • CHECK, SAYS, "WE NEED A CERTAIN

  • NUMBER OF PEOPLE TO HELP US

  • MODERATE ALL OF THE CONTENT

  • THAT'S GETTING REPORTED."

  • AND THEN, IT'S UP TO THOSE

  • COMPANIES TO GO OUT AND KIND OF

  • SET THINGS UP.

  • BUT WE KNOW FACEBOOK WILL TELL

  • YOU IT'S VERY PRESCRIPTIVE ABOUT

  • HOW THOSE SHOPS ARE SET UP.

  • THEY WANT THEM TO LOOK A CERTAIN

  • WAY.

  • THEY WANT EMPLOYEES TO HAVE

  • CERTAIN ACCESS TO MENTAL HEALTH

  • CARE RESOURCES WHILE THEY WORK

  • THERE, FOR EXAMPLE.

  • SO, FACEBOOK WORKS VERY, VERY

  • CLOSELY WITH THESE COMPANIES.

  • AND, YOU KNOW, IN MY VIEW, THESE

  • MODERATORS ARE FACEBOOK

  • EMPLOYEES IN EVERYTHING BUT, YOU

  • KNOW, NAME BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,

  • THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT

  • THEY'RE WORKING ON.

  • THEY ONLY HAVE THESE JOBS

  • BECAUSE FACEBOOK EXISTS.

  • >> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.

  • THERE'S ANOTHER GRAPH, AND I'M

  • GOING TO POINT OUT: "IT'S A

  • PLACE WHERE, IN STARK CONTRAST

  • TO THE PERKS LAVISHED ON

  • FACEBOOK EMPLOYEES, TEAM LEADERS

  • MICROMANAGE CONTENT MODERATORS--

  • EVERY BATHROOM AND PRAYER

  • BREAK-- WHERE EMPLOYEES

  • DESPERATE FOR A DOPAMINE RUSH

  • AMID THE MISERY HAVE BEEN FOUND

  • HAVING SEX INSIDE STAIRWELLS AND

  • A ROOM RESERVED FOR LACTATING

  • MOTHERS, WHERE PEOPLE DEVELOP

  • SEVERE ANXIETY WHILE STILL IN

  • TRAINING AND CONTINUE TO

  • STRUGGLE WITH TRAUMA SYMPTOMS

  • LONG AFTER THEY LEAVE AND WHERE

  • THE COUNSELING THE COGNIZANT

  • OFFERS THEM ENDS THE MOMENT

  • THEY QUIT OR ARE SIMPLY LET GO."

  • I MEAN, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE

  • TALKING ABOUT LONG-TERM

  • CONSEQUENCES, THE IDEA THAT YOU

  • WOULD NO LONGER HAVE ACCESS TO

  • THE COUNSELOR OR A GROUP OF

  • COUNSELORS THAT MIGHT HELP YOU

  • WITH THE VERY THING THAT YOU'VE

  • SUFFERED THROUGH THE JOB THE DAY

  • AFTER YOU LEAVE THAT JOB.

  • IT'S NOT LIKE THE PROBLEM STOPS.

  • >> YEAH.

  • THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

  • AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I HOPE

  • WE CAN CONTINUE PAYING MORE

  • ATTENTION TO IN THE MONTHS

  • AHEAD.

  • YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT

  • OTHER FOLKS WHO HAVE THIS KIND

  • OF JOB, OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE IN

  • FIRST RESPONDER ROLES-- A POLICE

  • OFFICER, A FIREFIGHTER, A SOCIAL

  • WORKER-- IN MANY CASES, WE THINK

  • THAT THOSE JOBS ARE SO IMPORTANT

  • THAT WE ALL COLLECTIVELY PAY FOR

  • THEM AS TAXPAYERS, AND WE GIVE

  • THEM PENSIONS BECAUSE WE

  • ACKNOWLEDGE THE SACRIFICES THAT

  • THEY HAVE MADE SO THAT WE CAN

  • HAVE A SAFE AND FREE SOCIETY.

  • AND I THINK THAT THE TIME HAS

  • COME FOR US TO SHIFT OUR

  • PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT THESE

  • PLATFORMS ARE AND ON THE VALUE

  • OF THE WORK THAT THESE FOLKS ARE

  • DOING BECAUSE, AGAIN, IF YOU

  • TAKE CONTENT MODERATION OFF OF

  • ANY SOCIAL NETWORK-- WHETHER

  • IT'S FACEBOOK, YOUTUBE, TWITTER,

  • REDDIT-- THOSE PLACES QUICKLY

  • BECOME TOTALLY UNUSABLE.

  • THEY'RE OVERRUN BY TROLLS.

  • YOU AND I WOULD NEVER WANT TO

  • SPEND ANY TIME THERE.

  • AND SO, BECAUSE OF THE WORK THAT

  • THESE FOLKS ARE DOING AND

  • BECAUSE OF THE REALLY DISTURBING

  • STUFF THAT THEY ARE SUBJECTED TO

  • AND WORK THROUGH, THEY... THEY

  • CREATE A SAFER WORLD FOR THE

  • REST OF US.

  • AND YET, THEY CAN BE FIRED FOR

  • BASICALLY ANYTHING, AND THEN

  • THEY NEVER GET ANY HELP FROM THE

  • COMPANY THAT PUT THEM INTO THAT

  • POSITION.

  • SO, I DO THINK THAT THAT IS RIPE

  • FOR RETHINKING.

  • >> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.

  • A COUPLE OF COMMENTS THAT ARE

  • COMING IN.

  • LAMANTIA RON SAYS, "SPEECH IS

  • FREE, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE

  • MONITORED.

  • THANK YOU, FELLOW MODERATORS."

  • YOU KNOW, TONY CASADO ASKS,

  • "WHAT DO YOU THINK THE HIGHER-

  • UPS COULD DO BETTER?"

  • DECENT QUESTION.

  • >> YEAH.

  • SO, I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S TWO

  • THINGS THAT THEY COULD DO

  • BASICALLY OVERNIGHT THAT WOULD

  • BE GREAT.

  • THE FIRST THING THEY COULD DO IS

  • PAY THESE MODERATORS MORE.

  • SO, THE AVERAGE CONTENT

  • MODERATOR IN PHOENIX WHERE I

  • WROTE MAKES $15 AN HOUR.

  • THAT'S ABOUT $28,800 A YEAR.

  • WHEN YOU LOOK AT OTHER PEOPLE

  • AND FIRST RESPONDER ROLES LIKE A

  • FIREFIGHTER OR A POLICE OFFICER,

  • IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR US TO PAY

  • THEM ABOUT $60,000 A YEAR.

  • I THINK THAT WOULD CREATE

  • ENORMOUS BENEFITS IN THE LIVES

  • OF ALL THE FOLKS THAT ARE DOING

  • THIS WORK, AND IT WOULD ACTUALLY

  • ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WORK AS HIGH-

  • SKILLED LABOR, YOU KNOW, WHICH

  • IT REALLY IS.

  • SO, I WOULD START BY PAYING

  • THESE FOLKS MORE MONEY.

  • AND THEN, I THINK IT'S TIME TO

  • TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THE

  • WORKING CONDITIONS IN THESE

  • JOBS.

  • YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT

  • I JUST COULDN'T GET OVER ABOUT

  • THIS STORY IS THAT THESE

  • MODERATORS HAVE TO CLICK A

  • BROWSER EXTENSION EVERY TIME

  • THEY WANT TO USE THE BATHROOM.

  • THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE

  • THEIR DESK WITHOUT TELLING

  • SOMEONE WHY.

  • I SORT OF THINK THAT IF A

  • FACEBOOK EXECUTIVE HAD TO LIVE

  • UNDER THAT SYSTEM FOR JUST ONE

  • DAY, THAT SYSTEM WOULD BE OVER

  • THAT DAY.

  • AND I THINK THEY COULD SORT OF

  • EXTEND THE SAME FREEDOMS THAT

  • THEY ENJOY DURING THEIR WORKDAY

  • TO THEIR COLLEAGUES WHO ARE

  • DOING THIS... THIS WORK.

  • SO, GIVE THEM A LITTLE BIT MORE

  • AGENCY, A LITTLE BIT MORE

  • FREEDOM.

  • TREAT THEM LIKE THE HIGH-SKILLED

  • LABORERS THAT THEY ARE.

  • >> Sreenivasan: ANOTHER COMMENT

  • THAT CAME IN IS THAT THERE'S

  • NO... THIS IS FROM ANNE DEVRIES:

  • "THERE'S NO NEED FOR FREEDOM OF

  • SPEECH IN A PRIVATELY-OWNED

  • COMPANY.

  • FACEBOOK NEEDS TO TAKE STEPS TO

  • REMOVE HATE USERS."

  • THAT'S A PRETTY BIG IDEA, BUT

  • IT'S REALLY, REALLY HARD TO

  • INSTITUTE, I IMAGINE, ON A SCALE

  • AS BIG AS FACEBOOK?

  • >> YEAH, I MEAN, AMERICAN SOCIAL

  • NETWORKS TEND TO BE FOUNDED ON

  • THE IDEA THAT THEY SHOULD

  • MAXIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF SPEECH

  • THAT IS ALLOWED ON THE PLATFORM,

  • RIGHT?

  • AND THAT VERY MUCH COMES OUT OF

  • OUR VALUES AS AMERICANS.

  • WE BELIEVE IN THE FIRST

  • AMENDMENT, WE BELIEVE IN

  • RIGOROUS POLITICAL DEBATES.

  • AND I THINK IN A WORLD WHERE

  • MUCH OF OUR DISCUSSION AROUND

  • POLITICS HAS MOVED ONLINE, IT'S

  • IMPORTANT TO PROTECT A LOT OF

  • SPEECH, INCLUDING SPEECH FROM

  • PEOPLE THAT WE TOTALLY DISAGREE

  • WITH OR MAYBE WE THINK ARE EVEN

  • ACTING IN BAD FAITH.

  • BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE ARE

  • LINES TO BE DRAWN.

  • THE TRICKY PART IS THAT IT'S

  • HARD TO GET ALL OF US TO AGREE

  • ON THEM.

  • SO, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY TO THE

  • VIEWER'S COMMENT THAT FACEBOOK

  • HAS NO RIGHT TO... NO OBLIGATION

  • TO ALLOW ALL OF US TO HAVE FREE

  • SPEECH, SHE IS RIGHT.

  • IT IS A PRIVATE CORPORATION.

  • IT COULD SORT OF DRAW THE LINES

  • WHEREVER IT WANTS TO.

  • BUT I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE

  • CAUTIOUS THERE BECAUSE FACEBOOK

  • HAS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF POWER

  • AND, YOU KNOW, A WORLD IN WHICH

  • IT DECIDES WHICH ARE THE CORRECT

  • OPINIONS AND WHICH ARE THE

  • INCORRECT OPINIONS AND PERMITS

  • ONLY THE FORMER ON THE SITE,

  • THAT STARTS TO FEEL LIKE A

  • PRETTY DYSTOPIAN WORLD, AT LEAST

  • TO ME.

  • >> Sreenivasan: YEAH.

  • ALL RIGHT.

  • JOHN BOYLE ALSO MENTIONED

  • FACEBOOK COULD EASILY AFFORD TO

  • PAY A LIVING WAGE AND GOOD

  • BENEFITS.

  • AND AGAIN, THIS IS A

  • SUBCONTRACTOR THAT IS PROFILED

  • IN THIS STORY.

  • ANDY ADAMS MENTIONS, "SHUT DOWN

  • FACEBOOK AND SLOWLY REBOOT WITH

  • A DELAYED TIME FOR POSTS TO

  • APPEAR.

  • JUST IN THE WAKE OF THE NEW

  • ZEALAND SHOOTINGS, WE SAW AT

  • LEAST IN A "WASHINGTON POST"

  • PIECE ABOUT YOUTUBE, THAT AT

  • SOME POINT THEY WERE JUST SO

  • OVERWHELMED THAT THEY JUST SAID,

  • "LET'S TAKE THE HUMANS OUT OF

  • THE MIX AND LET THE ALGORITHM DO

  • THE WORK.

  • AND IF WE ERR ON THE SIDE OF

  • CENSORING TOO MUCH RIGHT NOW,

  • THAT'S OKAY.

  • WE'LL TRY TO FIX IT IN THE

  • COMING DAYS."

  • >> YEAH, I MEAN, I DO THINK THAT

  • PLATFORMS MIGHT CONSIDER TAKING

  • MORE HEAVY-HANDED ACTIONS IN THE

  • WAKE OF THESE CALAMITIES.

  • WE NOW KNOW THAT THERE IS A

  • PRETTY FAMILIAR PLAYBOOK THAT

  • THESE TROLLS RUN WHENEVER THERE

  • IS A MASS SHOOTING OR ANOTHER

  • DISASTER.

  • THEY WILL, YOU KNOW, RE-UPLOAD

  • THOUSANDS OF COPIES OF THE

  • ORIGINAL CRIME IF THERE WAS

  • FOOTAGE TAKEN, THEY WILL MAKE

  • VIDEOS SAYING THAT THE WHOLE

  • THING NEVER HAPPENED AND IT'S

  • ALL A BIG HOAX.

  • AND SO, I DO THINK THAT THERE

  • ARE STEPS WHERE THESE COMPANIES

  • COULD TAKE REALLY HEAVY-HANDED

  • ACTION, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS TO

  • PROHIBIT UPLOADING FOR A COUPLE

  • OF HOURS OR SOMETHING.

  • NOW, THIS GETS REALLY DIFFICULT

  • AT THE SCALE OF, LIKE, A

  • YOUTUBE.

  • YOU'RE GOING TO AFFECT A LOT OF

  • REALLY WELL-MEANING PEOPLE WHO

  • ARE MAYBE, YOU KNOW, JUST TRYING

  • TO MAKE A LIVING UPLOADING THEIR

  • OWN VIDEOS.

  • SO, YOU KNOW, THAT STUFF GETS

  • PRETTY TRICKY.

  • BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GET DOWN

  • INTO THE NITTY GRITTY DETAILS,

  • THERE ARE WAYS TO DO IT.

  • FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, WHEN

  • PEOPLE UPLOAD THESE TERRIBLE

  • VIDEOS OVER AND OVER AGAIN,

  • OFTEN THEY'RE DOING IT FROM

  • BRAND NEW ACCOUNTS THAT DON'T

  • HAVE ANY VERIFIED CONTACT

  • INFORMATION.

  • SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IN THE

  • AFTERMATH OF THESE CALAMITIES,

  • PLATFORMS COULD JUST RESTRICT

  • UPLOADS TO ACCOUNTS THAT ARE

  • SOMEWHAT LESS ESTABLISHED.

  • >> Sreenivasan: ALL RIGHT.

  • CASEY NEWTON, SILICON VALLEY

  • EDITOR OF "THE VERGE," THANKS SO

  • MUCH FOR JOINING US.

  • >> MY PLEASURE.

>> Sreenivasan: THIS WEEK,

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Facebookのモデレーターがヘイトスピーチや暴力と戦う (Facebook moderators battle hate speech and violence)

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    Yi-Jen Chang に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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