字幕表 動画を再生する
Hi there. I'm Hasan. I'm an artist.
翻訳: SHIGERU MASUKAWA 校正: Takahiro Shimpo
And usually when I tell people I'm an artist,
僕はハサン
they just look at me and say, "Do you paint?"
アーティストです するとよく聞かれるのが
or "What kind of medium do you work in?"
「画家さんですか?」とか
Well most of my work that I work with
「どの芸術領域ですか?」とか
is really a little bit about methodologies of working
僕の作品のほとんどは
rather than actually a specific discipline
ある決まった方法や手法ではなく
or a specific technique.
作品への取り組み方それ自体-
So what I'm really interested in is creative problem solving.
ですので
And I had a little bit of a problem a few years ago.
想像力を発揮した問題解決が好きです
So let me show you a little of that.
ちょっと前に ある問題が発生しました
So it started over here.
それをご紹介します
And this is the Detroit airport in June 19th of 2002.
すべてはここから始まりました
I was flying back to the U.S. from an exhibition overseas.
デトロイト空港 2002年6月19日
And as I was coming back,
国外の展示会から
well I was taken by the FBI, met by an FBI agent,
アメリカに戻ったところで
and went into a little room
FBIに出迎えられました
and he asked me all sorts of questions --
小さな部屋に通され
"Where were you? What were you doing? Who were you talking with?
あれこれ尋問されました-
Why were you there? Who pays for your trips?" --
「どこで何してんだ?」「誰と話してたんだ?」
all these little details.
「誰が旅費を払ったんだ?」-
And then literally just out of nowhere,
細々したことです
the guy asks me, "Where were you September 12th?"
すると 突然 聞かれました
And when most of us get asked, "Where were you September 12th?"
「9月12日はどこにいたんだ?」
or any date for that fact,
多くの人はこう聞かれれば
it's like, "I don't exactly remember, but I can look it up for you."
どんな日だって
So I pulled out my little PDA,
「ちょっと調べてみます」となるでしょう
and I said, "Okay, let's look up my appointments for September 12th."
PDAを確認して言いました
I had September 12th -- from 10:00 a.m. to 10:30 a.m., I paid my storage bill.
「9月12日の予定は...」
From 10:30 a.m. to 12:00 p.m., I met with Judith who was one of my graduate students at the time.
10:30 am 倉庫代を払って
From 12:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m., I taught my intro class,
10:30 am - 12:00 p.m. ジュディスと会い
3:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m., I taught my advanced class.
12:00 p.m. - 3:00 p.m. 教室でクラス
"Where were you the 11th?" "Where were you the 10th?"
3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. 上級クラス
"Where were you the 29th? the 30th?"
「じゃあ11日は?」「あと10日は?」
"Where were you October 5th?"
「29日は?」「30日は?」
We read about six months of my calendar.
「10月5日は?」
And I don't think he was expecting me to have such detailed records
半年分のカレンダーを読み上げました
of what I did.
FBIもこんなに詳細な記録があるとは
But good thing I did,
思ってなかったでしょう
because I don't look good in orange.
記録があってよかった
(Laughter)
金髪頭じゃ
So he asked me --
よく見られないですから
(Applause)
そして-
"So this storage unit that you paid the rent on,
(拍手)
what did you have in it?"
「倉庫代を支払ったと-
This was in Tampa, Florida,
何が入ってるんだ?」
so I was like, "Winter clothes that I have no use for in Florida.
倉庫はフロリダのタンパにあります
Furniture that I can't fit in my ratty apartment.
「フロリダには不要な冬服とか
Just assorted garage sale junk,
部屋に入りきらない家具
because I'm a pack rat."
そういったガラクタです
And he looks at me really confused and says, "No explosives?"
よく旅行するもんで」
(Laughter)
FBIは困惑した表情で 「爆弾はないのか?」
I was like, "No, no. I'm pretty certain there were no explosives.
(笑)
And if there were, I would have remembered that one."
「爆弾なんてありませんよ
And he's still a little confused,
あったら しっかり覚えてますって」
but I think that anyone who talks to me for more than a couple of minutes
まだ困惑してるようでした
realizes I'm not exactly a terrorist threat.
誰でも僕と数分話せば
And so we're sitting there,
テロリストじゃないって分かります
and eventually after about an hour, hour and a half of just going back and forth,
こうして一時間半程経って
he says, "Okay, I have enough information here.
話がいったりきたりした後
I'm going to pass this onto the Tampa office. They're the ones who initiated this.
ついに 「よろしい
They'll follow up with you, and we'll take care of it."
この情報をタンパ支局に送る
I was like, "Great."
そこが君を担当する」
So I got home and the phone rings,
「分かりました」
and a man introduced himself.
家に帰ると 電話が鳴り
Basically this is the FBI offices in Tampa
現地のFBIからの電話でした
where I spent six months of my life --
こちらがFBIのタンパオフィス
back and forth, not six months continuously.
6ヶ月程過ごした場所です-
By the way, you folks know that in the United States,
ずっとではなく 出たり入ったりで
you can't take photographs of federal buildings,
ところで アメリカでは
but Google can do it for you.
政府の建物で写真はNGって知ってました?
So to the folks from Google, thank you.
グーグルでは公開されてます
(Applause)
どうもありがとう
So I spent a lot of time in this building.
(拍手)
Questions like:
ここで長い時間過ごしました
"Have you ever witnessed or participated in any act
尋問内容は
that may be detrimental to the United States or a foreign nation?"
「今まで アメリカもしくは諸外国を
And you also have to consider the state of mind you're in
害するような行為を目撃ないし参加したことは?」
when you're doing this.
こういう場合 自分の心の動きも
You're basically face-to-face with someone
よく考えないと
that essentially decides life or death.
面と向かって質問され
Or questions such as -- actually, during the polygraph,
しかも生死を決める問題ですから
which was how it finally ended after nine consecutive of them --
ウソ発見器 これを
one of the polygraph questions was ...
9回も受け続けましたが-
well the first one was, "Is your name Hasan?" "Yes."
聞かれた内容はと言うと
"Are we in Florida?" "Yes." "Is today Tuesday?" "Yes."
まずは「君はハサンか?」 「はい」
Because you have to base it on a yes or no.
「フロリダ在住か?」 「はい」 「今日は火曜か?」 「はい」
Then, of course, the next question is:
「はい」 か 「いいえ」で答えるわけです
"Do you belong to any groups that wish to harm the United States?"
お次はもちろん
I work at a university.
「アメリカに害をもたらす組織に属していたか?」
(Laughter)
大学で教えてます
So I was like, "Maybe you want to ask some of my colleagues that directly."
(笑)
But they said, "Okay, aside from what we had discussed,
「大学の同僚に直接聞いてもらうといいかも」
do you belong to any groups that wish to harm the United States?"
「それは後にして アメリカに
I was like, "No."
害をもたらす組織に属していたか?」
So at the end of six months of this
「いいえ」
and nine consecutive polygraphs,
こうして 半年後
they said, "Hey, everything's fine."
9回に及ぶウソ発見器の後
I was like, "I know. That's what I've been trying to tell you guys all along.
「問題ないようだ」
I know everything's fine."
「そりゃそうでしょ
So they're looking at me really odd.
ずっとそう言ってますって」
And it's like, "Guys, I travel a lot."
FBIは困った顔してました
This is with the FBI.
「僕 出張が多いんですよね」
And I was like, "All we need is Alaska not to get the last memo,
相手はFBIです
and here we go all over again."
「必要なのは行き先であって 手がかりをもとに
And there was a sincere concern there.
延々と尋問することじゃない」
And he was like, "You know, if you get into trouble,
切実な問題なんです
give us a call -- we'll take care of it."
「何か問題が起こったら 連絡をくれ
So ever since then, before I would go anywhere, I would call the FBI.
対応するから」
I would tell them, "Hey guys, this is where I'm going. This is my flight.
その後 外出の度 FBIに連絡しました
Northwest flight seven coming into Seattle
電話して「これからこの飛行機に乗ります-
on March 12th" or whatever.
ノースウェストのシアトル行き
A couple weeks later, I'd call again, let them know.
3月12日」とかなんとか
It wasn't that I had to, but I chose to.
数週間後 また電話して連絡
Just wanted to say, "Hey guys.
義務じゃなく そうすることにしました
Don't want to make it look like I'm making any sudden moves."
「FBIのみなさん
(Laughter)
怪しいことはありませんよ ほらね」
"I don't want you guys to think that I'm about to flee.
(笑)
Just letting you know. Heads up."
「逃亡する気なんてありませんから
And so I just kept doing this over and over and over.
こうして連絡してるわけです」
And then the phone calls turned into emails,
こうして何度も連絡して
and the emails got longer and longer and longer ...
そのうち電話がメールになり
with pictures,
そしてメールはどんどん長くなり
with travel tips.
写真もつけて
Then I'd make websites.
旅のヒントもおまけに
And then I built this over here. Let me go back to it over here.
こうしてサイトを立ち上げました
So I actually designed this back in 2003.
始まりはというと
So this kind of tracks me at any given moment.
スタートは2003年
I wrote some code for my mobile phone.
いつでも僕の居場所が分かります
Basically, what I decided is okay guys, you want to watch me, that's cool.
携帯用のプログラムを作りました
But I'll watch myself. It's okay.
FBIが僕を監視したいなら むしろ
You don't have to waste your energy or your resources.
自分で監視してやるってことです
And I'll help you out.
ムダな経費を使わないよう
So in the process, I start thinking, well what else might they know about me?
お助けします
Well they probably have all my flight records,
他にFBIは何が知りたいだろ?
so I decided to put all my flight records from birth online.
飛行機の便名は知りたいでしょうから
So you can see, Delta 1252
生まれてからこれまでの便名を公開しました
going from Kansas City to Atlanta.
ほら デルタ1252便
And then you see, these are some of the meals that I've been fed on the planes.
カンザスからアトランタ行き
This was on Delta 719
こちらは機内食です
going from JFK to San Francisco.
デルタ719便
See that? They won't let me on a plane with that,
JFKからサンフランシスコ行き
but they'll give it to me on the plane.
これを僕に渡しちゃいけません
(Laughter)
でも 出されちゃうんですよね
These are the airports that I hang out in,
(笑)
because I like airports.
こちらは空港の写真です
That's Kennedy airport, May 19th, Tuesday.
空港はお気に入りの場所
This is in Warsaw.
ケネディ空港 5月19日(火)
Singapore. You can see, they're kind of empty.
ワルシャワ空港
These images are shot really anonymously
シンガポール空港 ガラガラですね
to the point where it could be anyone.
こうした写真は
But if you can cross-reference this with the other data,
匿名で撮られました
then you're basically replaying the roll of the FBI agent
こうしたデータで裏づけがとれるわけです
and putting it all together.
FBIの仕事を代りにやって
And when you're in a situation
情報をまとめられます
where you have to justify every moment of your existence,
こういった状況では
you're put in the situation where you react in a very different manner.
いつ何時でも 裏づけが必要になり
At the time that this was going on,
普段とは違う行動様式になります
the last thing on my mind was "art project."
こうしたことが芸術作品に繋がるなんて
I was certainly not thinking, hey, I got new work here.
思ってもみませんでした
But after going through this, after realizing, well what just happened?
新しい仕事みっけ なんてね
And after piecing together this, this and this,
こうした中で一体何が起こったのか?
this way of actually trying to figure out what happened for myself
情報を繋いでいくと...
eventually evolved into this,
僕に起こった事が明らかになり
and it actually became this project.
発展を続けて
So these are the stores that I shop in -- some of them --
芸術作品になったわけです
because they need to know.
これらは買い物したお店です
This is me buying some duck flavored paste
FBIは必要としてますから
at the Ranch 99 in Daly City
こちらはスープの素
on Sunday, November 15th.
ダリーのランチ99にて
At Coreana Supermarket
11月15日(日)のこと
buying my kimchi because I like kimchi.
コリアナスーパーでは
And I bought some crabs too right around there,
好物のキムチをお買い物
and some chitlins at the Safeway in Emoryville.
その近所でカニも買いました
And laundry too. Laundry detergent at West Oakland --
チタリンを少々 エモリービルにて
East Oakland, sorry.
洗剤を西...失礼
And then my pickled jellyfish
東オークランドで
at the Hong Kong Supermarket on Route 18 in East Brunswick.
塩漬けのクラゲ
Now if you go to my bank records,
東ブランズウィックの香港のスーパーで
it'll actually show something from there,
僕の銀行からも
so you know that, on May 9th,
いろいろ情報が出てきます
that I bought $14.79 in fuel from Safeway Vallejo.
5月9日
So not only that I'm giving this information here and there,
$14.79でガソリンを入れました
but now there's a third party,
ただ情報を垂れ流してるだけでなく
an independent third party, my bank,
こうすると第三者が
that's verifying that, yes indeed, I was there at this time.
独立した第三者 例えば銀行が
So there's points, and these points are actually being cross-referenced.
照合できるわけです
And there's a verification taking place.
こうして相互に照合します
Sometimes they're really small purchases.
記録の中には
So 34 cents foreign transaction fee.
ほんと些細なものもあります
All of these are extracted directly from my bank accounts,
34セント 送金料
and everything pops up right away.
僕の銀行口座から直接情報が提供されます
Sometimes there's a lot of information.
タイムリーに出るんです
This is exactly where my old apartment in San Francisco was.
時には膨大な情報の時も
And then sometimes you get this.
ここはかつての僕のサンフランシスコの住まい
Sometimes you just get this, just an empty hallway in Salt Lake City,
こういう情報も
January 22nd.
ソルトレイクの誰もいないホールとか
And I can tell you exactly who I was with, where I was,
1月22日
because this is what I had to do with the FBI.
どこで誰といたかも正確に
I had to tell them every little detail of everything.
FBIに報告しなきゃいけません
I spend a lot of time on the road.
全てを包み隠さず
This is a parking lot in Elko, Nevada
車での移動もよくします
off of Route 80
ネバダ エルコのパーキング
at 8:01 p.m. on August 19th.
ルート80外れの
I spend a lot of time in gas stations too -- empty train stations.
8月19日 8:01p.m.
So there's multiple databases.
ガソリンスタンドや誰もいない駅にもよくいきます
And there's thousands and thousands and thousands of images.
こうして膨大な写真の
There's actually 46,000 images right now on my site,
データベースが作り上げられました
and the FBI has seen all of them --
現在 46,000枚もの写真が格納されてます
at least I trust they've seen all of them.
FBIは全部に目を通してる-
And then sometimes you don't get much information at all,
まあ そう願いたいもんですが
you just get this empty bed.
時にはなんの役にも立たない情報もあります
And sometimes you get a lot of text information and no visual information.
空っぽのベッドとか
So you get something like this.
写真無しの単なる文字情報の時もあります
This, by the way, is the location of my favorite sandwich shop in California --
例えばこんな感じ
Vietnamese sandwich.
カリフォルニアにあるお気に入りのサンドウィッチのお店の住所
So there's different categorizations
ベトナム風サンドウィッチですよ
of meals eaten outside
外食のデータにもいくつかの
empty train stations, empty gas stations.
カテゴリーがあります
These are some of the meals that I've been cooking at home.
誰もいない駅とガソリンスタンド
So how do you know these are meals eaten at home?
家で食事した時のデータもあります
Well the same plate shows up a whole bunch of times.
さて なぜ家での食事と分かるでしょう?
So again, you have to do some detective work here.
何度も同じお皿が登場するからです
So sometimes the databases get so specific.
ちょっと推理を働かせなきゃいけません
These are all tacos eaten in Mexico City
たまにデータが細かすぎることもあります
near a train station
こちらはメキシコシティーで食べたタコス
on July fifth to July sixth.
駅の近所のお店
At 11:39 a.m. was this one.
7月5日から6日までの間
At 1:56 p.m. was this one. At 4:59 p.m. was this one.
11:39 a.m.はこちら
So I time-stamp my life every few moments.
1:56 p.m.はこちら 4:59 p.m.はこちら
Every few moments I shoot the image.
人生の全ての瞬間を記録したわけです
Now it's all done on my iPhone,
事ある毎に写真を撮る
and it all goes straight up to my server,
今では全部iPhoneでやってます
and my server does all the backend work
直接サーバーに繋がってます
and categorizes things and puts everything together.
後はサーバーが全部やってくれます
They need to know where I'm doing my business,
分類してくれて 整理してくれます
because they want to know about my business.
FBIは僕がどこで何してるかしらなきゃならない
So on December 4th, I went here.
だって何をしてるか知りたいのだから
And on Sunday, June 14th at 2009 --
なので 12月4日 こちらにいました
this was actually about two o'clock in the afternoon
2009年6月14日 日曜日-
in Skowhegan, Maine -- this was my apartment there.
この時は午後2時でした
So what you're basically seeing here
メイン州のかつての自宅
is all bits and pieces and all this information.
ご覧いただいたのは
If you go to my site, there's tons of things.
情報のほんの一部分です
And really, it's not the most user-friendly interface.
サイトにはもっと情報があります
It's actually quite user-unfriendly.
ユーザーに優しい情報と言えません
And one of the reasons, also being part of the user-unfriendliness,
むしろ厳しいと言っていいかも
is that everything is there,
ユーザーに厳しい理由の一つは
but you have to really work through it.
全てがそこにある ことです
So by me putting all this information out there,
それらをなんとか整理しなくちゃならない
what I'm basically telling you is I'm telling you everything.
こうして情報を全部公開することで
But in this barrage of noise
僕の全てを公開してることになります
that I'm putting out,
一方で こうした
I actually live an incredibly anonymous and private life.
情報の洪水のおかげで
And you know very little about me actually.
実際にはかなりプライベートを守っていることになります
And really so I've come to the conclusion
僕のことについて何も分からない
that the way you protect your privacy,
僕が得た結論は
particularly in an era where everything is cataloged
プライバシーを守るには
and everything is archived and everything is recorded,
特に現代のように情報が整理され
there's no need to delete information anymore.
蓄積され そして記録される時代には
So what do you do when everything is out there?
情報を規制する必要なんて無いということです
Well you have to take control over it.
情報が全て公開されているとしたら?
And if I give you this information directly,
うまく整理しなくちゃなりません
it's a very different type of identity
こうした情報を直接与えることで
than if you were to try to go through and try to get bits and pieces.
小出しに出された情報から
The other thing that's also interesting that's going on here
推測される人物像とは異なる像が浮かびます
is the fact that intelligence agencies --
もう一つ興味深いのは
and it doesn't matter who they are --
諜報機関-
they all operate in an industry
どんな組織でもいいんですが-
where their commodity is information,
この業界では情報が
or restricted access to information.
情報 または限定された情報が
And the reason their information has any value
商品となっています
is, well, because no one else has access to it.
彼らの情報に価値があるのは
And by me cutting out the middle man
誰もその情報にアクセスできないからです
and giving it straight to you,
僕が仲介をなくして
the information that the FBI has has no value,
直接情報を公開することで
so thus devaluing their currency.
FBIの情報はその価値を失います
And I understand that, on an individual level,
商品価値が落ちるわけです
it's purely symbolic.
個人でのこうした活動は
But if 300 million people in the U.S.
パフォーマンスに過ぎません
started doing this,
でも もし3億人ものアメリカ人が
we would have to redesign the entire intelligence system
はじめたとしたら
from the ground up.
諜報のシステムを一から
Because it just wouldn't work if everybody was sharing everything.
作り直さないとなりません
And we're getting to that.
だって みんなが情報を持っていたら 成り立たない業界ですから
When I first started this project,
しかも 今 そうなりつつあります
people were looking at me and saying,
このプロジェクトを始めた頃
"Why would you want to tell everybody what you're doing, where you're at?
みんなが言いました
Why are you posting these photos?"
「なんで自分の居場所を公開するようなことをするんだい?
This was an age before people were Tweeting everywhere
写真なんか掲載しちゃって?」
and 750 million people
ツイッターが登場する前の話です
were posting status messages
7億5千万もの人々が
or poking people.
メッセージを掲載して
So in a way, I'm glad that I'm completely obsolete.
連絡し合う前
I'm still doing this project, but it is obsolete,
ある意味 これが時代遅れになってよかった
because you're all doing it.
プロジェクトは継続中ですが もはや時代遅れ
This is something that we all are doing on a daily basis,
だってみんながやってるんですから
whether we're aware of it or not.
みんなが日常やってることです
So we're creating our own archives and so on.
気づいてか気づかずか
And you know, some of my friends have always said,
各々が自分のアーカイブを築きあげています
"Hey, you're just paranoid. Why are you doing this?
友達が言ってました
Because no one's really watching.
「なあ おかしいんじゃないか? こんなことして
No one's really going to bother you."
誰も見ていないさ それに
So one of the things that I do
誰も気にしちゃいないし」
is I actually look through my server logs very carefully.
サーバーのアクセスログを
Because it's about surveillance.
注意深くみていくと-
I'm watching who's watching me.
だって監視なんだから
And I came up with these.
誰が僕を監視してるか 監視しないと
So these are some of my sample logs.
これができました
And just little bits and pieces, and you can see some of the things there.
こちらはログのサンプルです
And I cleaned up the list a little bit so you can see.
いくつかご覧いただきましょう
So you can see that the Homeland Security likes to come by --
見やすいように少し整理しました
Department of Homeland Security.
国土安全保障の方々も-
You can see the National Security Agency likes to come by.
国土安全保障省
I actually moved very close to them. I live right down the street from them now.
国家安全保障局の面々も
Central Intelligence Agency.
実は近所に住んでるんです 通りを挟んだ直ぐ側に
Executive Office of the President.
CIA
Not really sure why they show up, but they do.
大統領府
I think they kind of like to look at art.
なんでアクセスしたんですかね
And I'm glad that we have patrons of the arts in these fields.
アートが好きなのかも?
So thank you very much. I appreciate it.
こういう業界にパトロンができそうで良かった!
(Applause)
どうもありがとう
Bruno Giussani: Hasan, just curious.
(拍手)
You said, "Now everything automatically goes from my iPhone,"
ハサン 聞きたいんだが
but actually you do take the pictures and put on information.
iPhoneから自動で全てのデータを送られるというけど
So how many hours of the day does that take?
写真を撮ったり 情報を書き込んだりしてるわけだろ
HE: Almost none.
一日あたりどのくらい時間がかかるもんだい?
It's no different
ほとんどゼロ
than sending a text.
メールを
It's no different than checking an email.
送ったり
It's one of those things, we got by just fine before we had to do any of those.
読んだりするのと変わらないよ
So it's just become another day.
もう慣れちゃったからね
I mean, when we update a status message,
生活の一部といった感じです
we don't really think about how long that's going to take.
まあ情報をアップデートする時
So it's really just a matter of my phone clicking a couple of clicks,
所要時間なんて考えません
send, and then it's done.
だって ちょっと電話でトントンってタップして
And everything's automated at the other end.
送って ハイ終わり
BG: On the day you are in a place where there is no coverage, the FBI gets crazy?
あとは全部向こうでやってくれるんだ
HE: Well it goes to the last point that I was at.
飛行中は連絡とれないだろ?FBIは焦らないかな?
So it holds onto the very last point.
まあ 最後に居たところは分かるから
So if I'm on a 12-hour flight,
少なくてもどこから居なくなったかは分かる
you'll see the last airport that I departed from.
なので12時間のフライトなら
BG: Hasan, thank you very much. (HE: Thank you.)
出発地点の空港が分かるってわけです
(Applause)
ハサン どうもありがとう