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  • (Ray Comfort) You're an atheist?

  • I am definitely an atheist, yes.

  • (Ray Comfort) Why are you an atheist?

  • Why am I an atheist? Because there is no God.

  • Atheism assumes that you can disprove the existence of a God.

  • Agnostic is a more correct term, but I'm an atheist.

  • (Ray Comfort) Are you an atheist?

  • - Yeah. - I am an atheist, yeah.

  • - I am, yes. - I am.

  • (Ray Comfort) So you're not an atheist?

  • No, I'm not.

  • (Ray Comfort) So you're leaning that way because of evolution?

  • Yeah.

  • I don't believe in the, there's a guy in the sky

  • that lives in the sky.

  • - You believe in evolution? - Of course I do, yes.

  • (male narrator) "Live Science" says of Darwinian evolution:

  • "It can turn dinosaurs into birds, apes into humans

  • and amphibious mammals into whales."

  • What Darwin showed in his work on evolution

  • and natural selection is that we don't need to invoke

  • any supernatural force or power

  • to account for the development of life through time on earth.

  • The ongoing processes that are observable in today's world.

  • (Ray Comfort) Do you think it's a belief?

  • I think it's just fact.

  • I think more like facts.

  • There is too much evidence to ignore.

  • (Ray Comfort) Do you think it's a belief?

  • - No, it's science. - It's the way it happened.

  • It's logical.

  • You know, all the scientists pretty much agree with it.

  • It's more of a fact.

  • (Ray Comfort) When did you start to believe?

  • When I started to think for myself.

  • (Ray Comfort) When did you start believing?

  • When I took my first biology class.

  • It all started to make a lot of sense.

  • The teacher made it very easy to understand.

  • I generally trust the scientific community.

  • It makes more sense than any religion or anything.

  • The fossils they have found of all the cavemen,

  • the Homo sapiens, dinosaurs-- it shows clear evidence.

  • I believe in science.

  • (Ray Comfort) What's your major here at this university?

  • Biology.

  • - You're a biology major? - Yeah.

  • - You believe in evolution? - Yes.

  • - What's your major? - Geology.

  • - Chemistry. - Biochemistry.

  • Environmental science and policy.

  • I'm a physicist.

  • Biochemistry.

  • (Ray Comfort) Okay, do you believe in evolution?

  • Yes, I do.

  • - Do you believe in evolution? - Yes, I do.

  • - Of course. - Yes, I do.

  • I do believe in evolution.

  • - You believe in evolution? - Yes.

  • - Are you a strong believer? - Yes.

  • - Are you a strong believer? - Yep.

  • - Yes. - Yes.

  • Absolutely.

  • (narrator) A Scientific method is based on "the collection

  • of data through observation and experimentation." -Science Daily

  • (Ray Comfort) Could you give me some observable evidence

  • that evolution is true?

  • Something I don't have to receive by faith?

  • - Yeah. - Some observable evidence?

  • I mean, take a look at what happened 65 million years ago.

  • (Ray Comfort) Hang on, I can't, that's 65 million years ago.

  • I believe, yeah, millions of years.

  • (Ray Comfort) So that can't be observed.

  • We can trace the evolution through the fossil record.

  • (Ray Comfort) Could you be specific, just give me one?

  • Between 6 and 7 million years ago.

  • Hundreds of thousands to millions of years.

  • - So it's quite a long time. - Yes.

  • - Millions of years? - Yes.

  • (Ray Comfort) So it can't be observed?

  • Evolution is not testable over time.

  • (narrator) "We are condemned to live only for a few decades

  • and that's too slow, too small a time scale

  • to see evolution going on," Richard Dawkins.

  • "We see nothing of these slow changes in progress,

  • until the hand of time has marked the lapse of ages..."

  • Charles Darwin.

  • (Ray Comfort) You've got the canine kind: the coyote and the domestic dog;

  • and there's the feline kind: which is the cats,

  • the tiger, and the kitten; and you've got humankind.

  • So Darwin said there'd be a change of kinds

  • over many years,

  • so could you give me one example of observable evidence

  • of a change of kinds?

  • So for instance, the fossil record shows

  • the common ancestors of all carnivores,

  • that cats and dogs were once linked,

  • united by a common ancestor.

  • (Ray Comfort) How long ago?

  • This, I believe, was, like, 60 million years ago.

  • (Ray Comfort) I don't want something that I have to accept by faith.

  • I want it to be observable.

  • Observable evidence.

  • Well, I mean, if you're just asking me here on the street,

  • there's really not much I can tell you

  • in terms of observable evidence.

  • Like, we would have to really examine existing data

  • to draw conclusions of our own.

  • (Ray Comfort) We would have to have faith, then?

  • We would have to have some amount of faith.

  • (Ray Comfort) Can you think of any observable evidence

  • for Darwinian evolution,

  • where he said there'd be a change of kind?

  • (male) Like a monkey to a man, is that what you're talking about?

  • (Ray Comfort) Yeah, a change of kinds.

  • I don't really believe there's any proof for that yet.

  • Well, monkeys are the only ones

  • with the fifth digit like we have.

  • (Ray Comfort) Koalas have a fifth digit. Did you know that?

  • (female) I didn't know that.

  • (Ray Comfort) Do you think we're evolved from koalas?

  • No.

  • I went to, like, Washington, D.C.

  • I saw they had a whole exhibit just on the--

  • - In the Smithsonian? - Yeah, in the Smithsonian.

  • (Ray Comfort) I went to that. It's just like some stuffed dummies,

  • like standing around a fire.

  • I know that everyone talks about the missing link

  • for humans and whatnot.

  • I believe that there are connections that are out there

  • that we haven't found yet.

  • I'm going to trust what those experts did,

  • those experts came up with.

  • I have a strong trust in evolutionary ideas

  • based on the evidence presented.

  • (Ray Comfort) Can you think of any observable evidence

  • for Darwinian evolution, a change of kinds?

  • I haven't seen it myself,

  • but I believe what the textbooks tell me about it, so.

  • (Ray Comfort) You've got faith in the experts?

  • I have faith in the experts, yeah.

  • I guess similar to how religious people have faith

  • that God actually exists, I have faith in the experts

  • knowing what they're talking about.

  • (Ray Comfort) The scientific method is it must be observable and repeatable,

  • so could you give me one piece of observable evidence

  • for Darwinian evolution?

  • Okay, I would point to-- there's one great example

  • is look at the genetics of the stickleback.

  • (Ray Comfort) What's that?

  • So stickleback fish are a very interesting collection

  • of species that were recently isolated

  • after the end of the Ice Age.

  • (Ray Comfort) What have they become?

  • They're various species of sticklebacks.

  • (Ray Comfort) They stayed as fish?

  • Well, of course.

  • (Ray Comfort) Can you think of any observable evidence

  • where there was a change of kinds?

  • Fish.

  • Human beings are still fish.

  • (Ray Comfort) Human beings are fish?

  • Why, yes, of course they are.

  • (Ray Comfort) How long did that take?

  • Couple billions of years, millions.

  • - Couple millions? - Yep.

  • - How is that observable? - It's not.

  • We came out of the ground as a mammal,

  • and one mammal created--

  • (Ray Comfort) Come out of the ground?

  • Didn't we come out of the sea?

  • Huh? Well, initially in the beginning,

  • we came out of the ground and the sea.

  • After the great destruction of the--

  • (Ray Comfort) So did we have lungs or gills when we came out of the sea?

  • You want to know something?

  • Those that were in the sea I guess had gills,

  • and those that were on land had lungs.

  • (Ray Comfort) But if we came out of the sea, we had gills in the sea?

  • You want to know something?

  • Who knows that we came out of the sea or we came out of--

  • we evolved from mammals?

  • - So you don't know? - Huh? Of course I don't know.

  • I'm accepting that they did their science correctly.

  • (Ray Comfort) Could you give me an example of Darwinian evolution,

  • not adaptation or speciation, but a change of kinds?

  • [laughing]

  • These are changes of kinds.

  • (Ray Comfort) They're still fish.

  • They're distinctly different fish.

  • We have thousands of examples.

  • (Ray Comfort) Can you give me one?

  • - I can give you thousands. - Just one.

  • For instance,

  • I would say look at Lenski's experiments in bacteria, then.

  • (Ray Comfort) So what have the bacteria become?

  • The bacteria are still bacteria, of course.

  • (Ray Comfort) So that's not Darwinian evolution.

  • That's not a change of kinds, is it?

  • It is a change in the genetic makeup of the bacteria.

  • (Ray Comfort) But they're still bacteria.

  • So what have the bacteria become?

  • A new kind of bacteria.

  • (Ray Comfort) It's still bacteria. There's no change of kinds.

  • To summarize, the observable evidence that you give me

  • for Darwinian evolution is bacteria becoming bacteria.

  • No, it is bacteria acquiring new metabolic capabilities.

  • (Ray Comfort) You said before that there was lots of evidence for evolution.

  • I just want one observable evidence

  • for Darwinian evolution. Just one.

  • But I gave you some. You don't want--

  • (Ray Comfort) Not some. I want one.

  • Wait, you don't want that.

  • (Ray Comfort) I want one. Yes, I do.

  • I'm pleading with people.

  • You asked me to tell you-- you asked me to tell you

  • when I've watched one species evolve into another.

  • Isn't that right?

  • (Ray Comfort) No, one kind into another.

  • There's 14 different definitions of species,

  • so I want a change of kind.

  • When you're talking about kinds or change in families,

  • you're actually talking about macroevolution.

  • You're talking about changes on the level that separates,

  • say, cats from dogs.

  • (Ray Comfort) So could you give me any examples of Darwinian evolution?

  • Well, when you say examples of that,

  • then you have to sort of look at it over a longer time frame.

  • It has nothing to do with faith.

  • Faith is something that I have to--unseen,

  • I have to believe it.

  • (Ray Comfort) That's it, unseen.

  • Look, do you believe evolution?

  • Of course I do.

  • (Ray Comfort) Are you a believer in evolution?

  • Yes, I am.

  • (Ray Comfort) When did you start to believe evolution?

  • I started to believe evolution

  • when I started to think for myself.

  • (Ray Comfort) Is evolution a belief?

  • Evolu-- well, you know something?

  • Evolution is a thought process.

  • It's this coming-to-terms

  • and checking out all the alternatives.

  • Like, taking a looking at the religion, man-made religions.

  • (Ray Comfort) Let me ask you again. Is evolution a belief?

  • No, evolution is-- well, yeah.

  • In a word, yeah, I could say it could be a belief.

  • When you say change of kinds,

  • do you mean the evolution of one species

  • from another or to another?

  • Yes, we have that in action, actually, in the Galapagos.

  • (Ray Comfort) Could you give me one instance?

  • Yes, we have an example from a group of birds

  • called Darwin's finches.