its pleasure to welcome to the program having impose writer and author I love

rise of the warrior cop a radley Balko Radley welcome to the program

I'm a quarter tank I'm am so I Radley let's start we give us a little bit %uh

vay

a historical context when did the

the cop start to rise to becoming a a warrior

well I think it goes back

to the late sixties actually I turned experience in civil unrest

a.m. you US I in really the

precipitating incident was probably the watts riots 1965 in LA

I the headed the the in San

inspector at the LAPD I'm about to become is cheap daryl gates

I was in charge I'll LAPD's reaction to the rights and

he was alarms that I

because the department do we have an act that way of responding

axes kind so the emergency situation to read lives in the

risk I and active shooter is a riot

I'll hostage takings no emergency type situation

I came up with this idea I

to turn the military I military hat the no special forces I

schemes that I could respond quickly

%ah who are no be highly-trained specialized I

anchored years you would use overwhelming force too quickly

I defuse a violent situation on so we

put together this what this team any color they are

Joaquin and he I initially babe responsibility was interesting man

actually

I did not it's a great partner did not like the idea is that it tried to close

to art greeting the line between

I the tactical police and the military that week to decide

respect than the last I hear whether legal news he took over the gate

got the green light to go ahead with this idea after a couple

high-profile raid on one on the black panthers one on the

and the Liberation Army ever nationally televised

and I really can't have propelled this idea joaquim into the

popular culture and by the nineteen seventies pretty much every large city

in the country

I had one we the thing about

the seventies knowing that the early the first decade or so

what is that they were they were always reserved for the and emergency

situations where you're

you're using by one to defuse an alright already violent situation and your

saving lives better are your risk hospital in the nineteen eighties that

we started the

biking a converge with the drug war

and we started the a massive massive increase and E

uses why %uh mostly to serve warrant

on people suspected drug crime and

no hear you're using violence are you actually creating beilin

but there was none before you're not using violence to

you know de-escalate something you know and already violent situation

I and your YouTube what actually is an investigative tool

I'll know we force walking for use with people who know when the processor

committing crimes so there's no question about that ill

I but by in the 80's 90's &

not until today what is overwhelmingly used against people who

you're not only a haven't been convicted of any crime

I but has have you been charged and the police are still in the

evidence-gathering stated their investigation

and that's really where nope and most the

a my criticism in the book comes I it's not

an anti squat worker and by copyright even at look at the policies that really

a behind this shift from using

what emerges education use in a more proactively and and then

as an investigative cool in it seems to me to do that

the the Serta the the culture around

swat if if you if you can call it that

his sort have bled into the the police department I mean I remember in the

early eighties

I N in in my hometown Massachusetts

having some SWAT guy come to our classroom or something

and the a the the IDS what was just very it seem compartmentalized that it was a

very specific group of police

I who on the force who had access to the year

and had access to the training and it seems on some level that that that serve

comparte

the I don't wanna collar firewall but it

whatever it was it seems like that wall has sort of

maybe in some respects just disappeared totally

yeah and I think that's a larger story here that this culture of

I'll militarization as let out be on the swat teams

I and it really affected I a lot of police departments across the country

are more and more widespread way in I mean

you know it isn't just the paramilitary tactics but it's also a mindset

I'm along with the explosions a

the number use a SWAT teams we seen I

you know politicians that constantly told police officers at the fight more

surprising was on drugs and crime

on terrorism I and you know please allow to respond to switch from the

traditional police blues

what they call BTU's are battle dress uniforms

this know they've they've adopted more military look

I and yes you can see this in you know the

the the way that police officers approached their jobs I

if you take a copy for a min you know soldiers clothing and give them

soldiers weapons and in a minute soldiers tactic for men

and about on the street and tom is fighting a war

that's going to have I you know an impact on the way he approaches

jobs in the way because the job really interact with the community that he

serves

to tell us a little bit about what that impact is

when the the rubber meets the road because I i think that

I think that dynamic I love you know you start dressing someone like a

a member the paramilitary organization they're gonna start to feel like they're

a member of the paramilitary organization mean what are the

implications are that

in terms of policing get what I mean in addition to just that you know the

explosion in the number swat teams but I i think you know he's getting a lot of

I if you get a police discussion board online you know

to see a lot of fun iterations that the phrase

a base with Becca I'll do whatever have to do to get home safely at night

I any luck that is a a battlefield

mentality right I'm gonna do whatever I have to do to get home safe

I that is not not a far cry from protected protect and serve or

keep the peace I'm there is a

the police officers are are told every day that their job is

I you know extremely dangerous and and getting more dangerous impact

I noted certainly important research job in mind the journalist but

did the job does not mean not that usually not in the top 15 or 20 most

dangerous jobs in the country

I in a vacuum it a cup car accident I

the odds are they results are being killed murdered on the job about the

same as

I being murdered by living and most large cities in the US

I'll so you know this isn't the no

I I diminish the fact that some police officers accident on the job

the problem with this is that your the job last year also been a pressure that

I'll acid say your with officers substance or 1960

I into the comment is it up with others every day that

I you know their job is extremely dangerous in every interaction with the

president could be their last

I you encourage them to start seeing citizen

as blacks and every citizen as a potential threat and person who

you know mate people the one who prevent them from going home at night

and that really fosters a a are

you know an antagonistic relationship again between cops in

in the community I'm you see this with

other stop snitching movement that kinda bubbled up in a number city

and you know what do you think that movement and I understand people who

find it

you know repugnant the idea that people will cooperate with police even

in a murder investigation for example com you don't understand

gonna behind it and it's pretty remarkable that there are entire

no communities in this country where a residential community

I your could be more than they fear the people the police are supposed to be

protecting them from

and I think we need to look at you know why that is the know you can blame it on

the pop culture if you want but

I not think there is something more and a fundamentalist a connection that is it

goes back to

again this shit and releasing them be seen in the last generation or so

so was it i mean i i know that

you really focus on on the drug war

as being sort of the the catalyst or I should say the

maybe the fuel that the that was added to the sort of a fire that had bedded

begun in terms of creating swat teams

I just outlined for us sort of how that other drug war evolved in

what up what laws that came in

that sorta followed I guess on a parallel track or maybe

I am a one that should have drove

this the this change in police culture

yet you know the good word

again in the next administration and when he declared war on drugs

I'll by you know the address what but what phenomenon was basically

trip being born same time but is it a bit easier to transfer repair love one

another throughout the nineteen

seventy I nixon you know did have out is like no not grade

I but it was applied to you

I corner out across basic up to our

you know I in street clothes or and no contorted

uniform is once wattenberg in the israeli early on

it was really going the reagan administration every the be used for

our team for drug raid take often other couple reasons for that one is

a Iranian really kinda blurred the line between police and military

know by the National Guard to start writing the drug war at one point even

tried to bring active-duty troops and start conducting searches and making

arrests

I'm I will one few bad idea accident at didn't

become policy I do in nineteen eighties but know he created these joint we

joint task force's that I encourage cooperation between the military and

police

in domestically of the drug interdiction efforts I

and then certainly make I military equipment available we

apartment across the country and the you know this is a policy that continued

ever since then

what we've seen is literally millions of people

agreement that was designed for use on a battlefield I

has been given to you domestic release for use on American streets and

American neighborhoods and against American citizen you were talking paying

and our personnel carriers and helicopters & Gun

bayonet I and you know this is I

this has been going on for you know 30 five years now there's never really been

any

no public debate over public discussion about whether it's appropriate

are building the that reagan began has continued ever sent to be created the

inside federal anti-drug grant and you know we have a history in this country

of

a determining criminal justice law enforcement power

Libya the local official side they now decide what laws are

could be a priority in I didn't know enforce laws in a way to reflect

community standards and

community values and any expectation and I

really be unacceptable we saw during reagan & again a container centers

are more heavily federal influence on

in I in local policing and pick the weather gonna sit through this grant

I'm and even tho governments are taking you free money available to police

department

Arbor catches you know our are rules are

a requirement that you nor is get this money your record and more drug police

they were

or the score these grants are only going to go a

toward drug policing ok you it makes every drug rafter complicated how much

a I minimal corneal ulcer drugs in order to get these grand

now no drug we can become a much higher priority so you got other

year that you got for free I this artist walking

million people lucky man reserved for in wafer wanna be

emergency type situation but you know that at quite interpreted for

I or you could certainly use walking out on drug raids now

and there's all this money that comes with that and and I just watching Black

Star generate revenue for the police department

up to what a difficult decision after logically second the

missus really happy she's walking object to be routinely use

I to serve drug weren't our search warrants in drug cases