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  • These young people,

  • what do they feel is the downside

  • of having Beijing in charge?

  • It makes us -

  • It doesn’t make us stronger.

  • I mean the people.

  • It makes us in the fringe

  • of the game of power.

  • Hi, welcome to China Uncensored,

  • I’m your host Chris Chappell.

  • I’m here in Macau,

  • China’s other Special Administrative Region.

  • Like neighboring Hong Kong,

  • Macau is supposed to be run under China’s

  • One Country, Two Systems policy.

  • And like with Hong Kong,

  • the one country thing is definitely true,

  • but the two systems partless so.

  • But unlike in Hong Kong,

  • the democratic movement here in Macau

  • is small.

  • Most people seem content

  • to let the Communist Party have its way

  • in exchange for economic prosperity.

  • You know that draconian anti-subversion law,

  • Article 23,

  • that half a million Hong Kongers protested against in 2003?

  • Well, in Macau,

  • it was passed in 2009

  • without much fuss.

  • Dissidents here,

  • perhaps even more so than in Hong Kong,

  • are fighting an uphill battle against the status quo.

  • So naturally,

  • I just had to come here and talk with someone

  • who shares my passion for uphill battles

  • against the status quo.

  • I sat down with Scott Chiang,

  • President of the New Macau Association,

  • a major pro-democracy NGO in Macau.

  • Thanks for joining me, Scott.

  • Why don’t you tell us about

  • the New Macau Association.

  • Well, it’s been one of the, uh,

  • People says it’s a flagship democratic association

  • in Macau.

  • I don’t know.

  • Weve been here since the early 90s.

  • It’s founded by a bunch of

  • very passionate people

  • who care about the future of Macau

  • because it’s just before the handover

  • and it’s just after what happened in ’89

  • in Tainanmen Square.

  • And people genuinely concerned about our future

  • under Chinese rule.

  • Younger generation - I’m part of it -

  • emerges in the recent years,

  • and we want to make democrats - true democrats -

  • survive in Macau in the coming generations.

  • So this organization has been around for a long time.

  • How have you seen the situation in Macau change

  • since the handover in 1999?

  • Macau has been in ruins in my childhood.

  • The 90s is not one of our brightest hours.

  • So the expectation was low in the time of handover.

  • This is in contrast to what happened in Hong Kong.

  • And soon after that,

  • we have the opening up of the casino industry.

  • And that, adding up with the lot people, tourists,

  • coming from mainland China,

  • gave us what is called the Golden Decade.

  • Well now we have the GDP exceeding

  • many developed countries.

  • And yes, that set a lot of people very satisfied.

  • And that also denied a lot of chance that we actually had

  • to fight for our own rights

  • because people said, “Oh,

  • were having a good time,

  • so why don’t we shut up,

  • and enjoy it while it lasts?”

  • So people feel things are better now,

  • under Communist rule?

  • Naturally.

  • And when they acknowledged

  • the good times come from mainland tourists,

  • and they will think again, when they try to criticize

  • China or the local government, even -

  • because they know they have the endorsement of Beijing,

  • and they know that Macau’s fate,

  • in their mind,

  • is in the hands of the privileged -

  • not in themselves.

  • I have to say that, sadly,

  • that’s the truth about many local people.

  • The younger generation are feeling

  • more strongly and strongly and strongly that

  • they need to have a say in what goes on in their town.

  • So I still see hope in that.

  • These young people,

  • what do they feel is the downside

  • of having Beijing in charge?

  • It makes us -

  • It doesn’t make us stronger.

  • I mean the people.

  • It makes us in the fringe

  • of the game of power.

  • That is one of the things

  • we want to fight against.

  • To change people’s minds and show them,

  • no, when you fight it,

  • you may stand a chance.

  • But if you just sit home and wait,

  • nothing will happen.

  • So how does the political situation in Macau

  • compare to Hong Kong?

  • Macau has a very robust apolitical tradition,

  • so to say,

  • because not that people are not talking about politics.

  • They do,

  • and they may know more than you might suspect.

  • But they fail to connect what is in the news

  • and what they need to do to change it.

  • They may be very openly criticizing Obama.

  • They may have a strong opinion against Trump.

  • But they wouldn’t be the same open and vocal,

  • criticizing personnel when it comes to local politics.

  • Yes, they may complain in local cafes

  • about this and that,

  • the traffic, housing price

  • But when you say,

  • Hey, why don’t we do something change that?”

  • They say, “Nah, it doesn’t work.

  • I’ve been around more than you - longer than you.

  • And I know they don’t work.”

  • That is the general sentiment,

  • at least for the older generations.

  • And that sentiment shaped the fate of Macau

  • for the last decades.

  • How about the younger generation?

  • The younger generation?

  • We are more

  • We are better educated.

  • And many of my friends,

  • when they have the chance to go abroad,

  • and get a job there,

  • they choose not to go back

  • because they know Macau is not suitable for them

  • or for their offspring.

  • But for those who return,

  • I believe there is hope in them because

  • when they had the chance,

  • and they choose to return to their hometown,

  • I expect more from them when it comes to,

  • you know,

  • changing the place for the better.

  • So how has the implementation of Article 23 in 2009

  • changed Macau?

  • Well, may I disappoint you in saying, “business as usual?”

  • Sometimes even we didn’t realize,

  • oh, it’s already here

  • for quite some years.

  • Yeah, the thing is, when you talk to people saying,

  • Oh, this law is bad because it

  • diminished civil liberty,

  • it gives the administration too much power,

  • it makes criminal charges against, you know,

  • freedom of speech -“

  • And people say, “what are you afraid of,

  • if youre not going to overthrow Beijing?”

  • Nonetheless, it is harmful to civil society.

  • But pretty much nobody listened,

  • unlike in Hong Kong.

  • So do you think Macau still has

  • the One Country, Two System policy?

  • In the first part, I’m pretty confident.

  • And I understand you were recently interviewed by police

  • after a protest earlier this year.

  • Which interview do you mean?

  • How many?

  • Are you concerned for your safety?

  • I lost count, actually.

  • Am I safe in this room?

  • Should I be seen with you?

  • Well, you film it.

  • I guess that’s true.

  • I shouldve thought about that.

  • No, as I told you,

  • we were relatively safe,

  • or not worried by those up there

  • because we are weak

  • in comparison to our counterparts in Hong Kong.

  • We do not constitute a critical minority in the house

  • of legislation.

  • And we don’t mobilize as much as those in Hong Kong.

  • And how do you feel about that perceived weakness?

  • It is not justperceived.”

  • It is backed by hard fact.

  • And that is both a blessing and curse, right?

  • Being weak is not a good thing,

  • but then it kinda protected you from a lot of attacks.

  • And oftentimes we think to ourselves,

  • Have we been doing the utmost that we can do?”

  • We are pretty much the leading democrats in Macau.

  • There’s not much competition there.

  • Is it because we are doing good enough,

  • or is it because it’s not a very attractive

  • career path?

  • Then we have to remind ourselves that we have to

  • do better than we have been.

  • Being weak can be a motivation.

  • What is your hope for the future of Macau?

  • Well as I told you,

  • the younger generation has a lot of potential.

  • Information is easier to obtain now.

  • It’s harder to keep your people blind and deaf

  • from what’s happening outside.

  • And what’s happening in Hong Kong and Taiwan has been a

  • very, very, very visual alarm

  • for people in Macau.

  • Some people will take that as an alert,

  • sayingwe shall not move to that direction.

  • Macau is no place for extremists.”

  • But then younger generation will see opportunities,

  • saying we may not need to do the same thing,

  • but we can, nonetheless, take things into our own hands

  • instead of putting it up to somebody else.

  • Well thank you again.

  • That was Scott Chiang,

  • president of the New Macau Association.

  • Thank you - thank you.

These young people,

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民主主義のための戦いを、もう一つの中国で。マカオ|中国無修正版 (The Fight for Democracy in the OTHER China: Macau | China Uncensored)

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    蔡政霖 に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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