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  • Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

    実はかなり迷いました

  • Look, I had second thoughts, really,

    皆さんのような元気な人達を前に

  • about whether I could talk about this

    こんな話をしてもいいものか

  • to such a vital and alive audience as you guys.

    グロリア・スタイネムの 言葉です

  • Then I remembered the quote from Gloria Steinem,

    グロリア・スタイネムの 言葉です

  • which goes,

    「真実は貴方を解放する

  • "The truth will set you free,

    しかし その前に まず貴方を怒らせるだろう」

  • but first it will piss you off." (Laughter)

    ということで(笑)

  • So -- (Laughter)

    それを念頭において お話しするのは

  • So with that in mind, I'm going to set about

    それを念頭において お話しするのは

  • trying to do those things here,

    21世紀の死です

  • and talk about dying in the 21st century.

    腹の立つ真実の一つ目は

  • Now the first thing that will piss you off, undoubtedly,

    私達はみんな21世紀中に

  • is that all of us are, in fact, going to die

    死ぬこと

  • in the 21st century.

    例外はありません

  • There will be no exceptions to that.

    調査によると8人に一人は

  • There are, apparently, about one in eight of you

    不死身だと思っていますが

  • who think you're immortal, on surveys, but --

    (笑)

  • (Laughter)

    残念ながら そういう訳には行きません

  • Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen.

    今から10分間 私が話す間にも

  • While I give this talk, in the next 10 minutes,

    1億もの細胞が死んでいき

  • a hundred million of my cells will die,

    今日中に2千の脳細胞が

  • and over the course of today, 2,000 of my brain cells

    死んでしまうので

  • will die and never come back,

    死の過程は早くから 始まると言えます

  • so you could argue that the dying process

    死の過程は早くから 始まると言えます

  • starts pretty early in the piece.

    21世紀の死について 2つ目は

  • Anyway, the second thing I want to say about dying in the

    死は不可避である上に

  • 21st century, apart from it's going to happen to everybody,

    やや悲惨な様相を 呈していることです

  • is it's shaping up to be a bit of a train wreck

    やや悲惨な様相を 呈していることです

  • for most of us,

    容赦ない軌道に乗っている 死の過程を

  • unless we do something to try and reclaim this process

    改善しなければならない

  • from the rather inexorable trajectory that it's currently on.

    それが真実です

  • So there you go. That's the truth.

    頭には来ますが

  • No doubt that will piss you off, and now let's see

    自由にはなれるでしょうか

  • whether we can set you free. I don't promise anything.

    集中治療が私の仕事です

  • Now, as you heard in the intro, I work in intensive care,

    集中治療の全盛期を経験しました

  • and I think I've kind of lived through the heyday

    色々なことがあって

  • of intensive care. It's been a ride, man.

    最高でした

  • This has been fantastic.

    モニターとか音の鳴る機械が

  • We have machines that go ping.

    たくさんある職場です

  • There's many of them up there.

    すごい技術のおかげで

  • And we have some wizard technology which I think

    私が働き始めてから

  • has worked really well, and over the course of the time

    オーストラリア男性の死亡率が

  • I've worked in intensive care, the death rate

    半減しました

  • for males in Australia has halved,

    集中治療の成果です

  • and intensive care has had something to do with that.

    さまざまな技術を駆使した

  • Certainly, a lot of the technologies that we use

    おかげでもあります

  • have got something to do with that.

    大変な成功を収めて

  • So we have had tremendous success, and we kind of

    すっかり浮かれてしまい

  • got caught up in our own success quite a bit,

    「救命」などという言葉を 使い始めてしまいました

  • and we started using expressions like "lifesaving."

    誤解を招いたことを

  • I really apologize to everybody for doing that,

    お詫びします

  • because obviously, we don't.

    私達がするのは延命で

  • What we do is prolong people's lives,

    死を先延ばしにし

  • and delay death,

    遠回りさせる事は出来ても

  • and redirect death, but we can't, strictly speaking,

    永続的な救命は できないのです

  • save lives on any sort of permanent basis.

    集中治療で働いていて

  • And what's really happened over the period of time

    目の当たりにしていることですが

  • that I've been working in intensive care is that

    70年代から90年代にかけて

  • the people whose lives we started saving back in the '70s,

    私達が命を救った人達は 21世紀になって

  • '80s, and '90s, are now coming to die in the 21st century

    当時とは違う 解決策のない病気で

  • of diseases that we no longer have the answers to

    死んでいこうとしています

  • in quite the way we did then.

    人の死に方に 大きな変化が

  • So what's happening now is there's been a big shift

    起きているのです

  • in the way that people die,

    現在の死因の多くは

  • and most of what they're dying of now isn't as amenable

    80年代や90年代のように

  • to what we can do as what it used to be like

    治療が可能なものではありません

  • when I was doing this in the '80s and '90s.

    この対応に追われていて

  • So we kind of got a bit caught up with this,

    いま何が起こっているのか

  • and we haven't really squared with you guys about

    きちんと説明していませんでした

  • what's really happening now, and it's about time we did.

    90年代後半にこの人に出会って

  • I kind of woke up to this bit in the late '90s

    目が覚めました

  • when I met this guy.

    彼の名前は ジム・スミスといいます

  • This guy is called Jim, Jim Smith, and he looked like this.

    細い方が彼の手です

  • I was called down to the ward to see him.

    彼の様子を見るよう

  • His is the little hand.

    呼吸科医に

  • I was called down to the ward to see him

    呼ばれました

  • by a respiratory physician.

    「肺炎に罹った患者がいる

  • He said, "Look, there's a guy down here.

    「肺炎に罹った患者がいる

  • He's got pneumonia,

    集中治療が必要だ

  • and he looks like he needs intensive care.

    娘さんは あらゆる手を

  • His daughter's here and she wants everything possible

    尽くしてくれと言っている」

  • to be done."

    私達には聞き慣れた言葉です

  • Which is a familiar phrase to us.

    病室に様子を見に行くと

  • So I go down to the ward and see Jim,

    皮膚が透けて

  • and his skin his translucent like this.

    骨が見えるほどです

  • You can see his bones through the skin.

    やせ細って

  • He's very, very thin,

    重度の肺炎に罹っていました

  • and he is, indeed, very sick with pneumonia,

    話は無理なので

  • and he's too sick to talk to me,

    娘のキャスリーンに向かって こう聞きました

  • so I talk to his daughter Kathleen, and I say to her,

    「こういう状況になった時

  • "Did you and Jim ever talk about

    どうしたいのか

  • what you would want done

    話し合ったことは?」

  • if he ended up in this kind of situation?"

    彼女は私を見て 「ある訳ないでしょう!」

  • And she looked at me and said, "No, of course not!"

    「落ち着かせなきゃ」と思いました

  • I thought, "Okay. Take this steady."

    しばらくして 彼女はこう言いました

  • And I got talking to her, and after a while, she said to me,

    「まだ先のことだと思ってた」

  • "You know, we always thought there'd be time."

    ジムは94歳でした (笑)

  • Jim was 94. (Laughter)

    それで気づきました 何かが欠けている

  • And I realized that something wasn't happening here.

    あるはずの

  • There wasn't this dialogue going on

    対話が持たれていない

  • that I imagined was happening.

    そこで調査を始めて

  • So a group of us started doing survey work,

    ニューカッスル周辺の

  • and we looked at four and a half thousand nursing home

    養護施設に住む 4,500人に当たりました

  • residents in Newcastle, in the Newcastle area,

    心停止の際のプランがあるのは

  • and discovered that only one in a hundred of them

    100人のうち1人だけでした

  • had a plan about what to do when their hearts stopped beating.

    100人中1人ですよ

  • One in a hundred.

    重体になった際 どうするか考えている人は

  • And only one in 500 of them had plan about what to do

    500人中たったの1人だけ

  • if they became seriously ill.

    この対話は社会全般では

  • And I realized, of course, this dialogue

    全くなされていない と気がつきました

  • is definitely not occurring in the public at large.

    現職は救急医療です

  • Now, I work in acute care.

    ジョン・ハンター病院です

  • This is John Hunter Hospital.

    我々の病院ではこんなはずではないと

  • And I thought, surely, we do better than that.

    同僚のリサ・ショウと一緒に

  • So a colleague of mine from nursing called Lisa Shaw and I

    何百もの診療記録を

  • went through hundreds and hundreds of sets of notes

    調べました

  • in the medical records department

    受けている治療が効かず

  • looking at whether there was any sign at all

    死ぬ可能性がある場合

  • that anybody had had any conversation about

    患者の希望を話し合ったような

  • what might happen to them if the treatment they were

    会話の記録を探しましたが

  • receiving was unsuccessful to the point that they would die.

    医師や患者が始めた記録の どこにも

  • And we didn't find a single record of any preference

    目標や治療や成果についての

  • about goals, treatments or outcomes from any

    希望は一つも 書いてありませんでした

  • of the sets of notes initiated by a doctor or by a patient.

    これは問題だと

  • So we started to realize

    やっと気づきました

  • that we had a problem,

    問題は更に深刻です というのも

  • and the problem is more serious because of this.

    誰でも死ぬ事は知っていますが

  • What we know is that obviously we are all going to die,

    死に方も大切だからです

  • but how we die is actually really important,

    本人だけでなく  先立たれた人達の

  • obviously not just to us, but also to how that

    人生にも影響するからです

  • features in the lives of all the people who live on afterwards.

    残された人達の心に

  • How we die lives on in the minds of everybody

    死に様が生き続けるのです

  • who survives us, and

    死による 家族のストレスは甚大で

  • the stress created in families by dying is enormous,

    集中治療室で死ぬ場合のストレスは

  • and in fact you get seven times as much stress by dying

    他で死ぬ場合の7倍です

  • in intensive care as by dying just about anywhere else,

    選べるなら 集中治療室では

  • so dying in intensive care is not your top option

    死なない方がいい

  • if you've got a choice.

    ところが残念ながら

  • And, if that wasn't bad enough, of course,

    集中治療室で死ぬ人は 急速に増えていて

  • all of this is rapidly progressing towards the fact that

    10人に一人は集中治療室で

  • many of you, in fact, about one in 10 of you at this point,

    死ぬことになりそうです

  • will die in intensive care.

    アメリカでは

  • In the U.S., it's one in five.

    5人に一人 マイアミは5人に3人

  • In Miami, it's three out of five people die in intensive care.

    そういう勢いです

  • So this is the sort of momentum

    これが現状です

  • that we've got at the moment.

    その理由はこれです

  • The reason why this is all happening is due to this,

    説明しましょう

  • and I do have to take you through what this is about.

    4つの死に方です

  • These are the four ways to go.

    誰もがこの一つで死にます

  • So one of these will happen to all of us.

    よくご存知なのは

  • The ones you may know most about are the ones

    その重要性が 過去のものとなりつつある

  • that are becoming increasingly of historical interest:

    突然死でしょう

  • sudden death.

    ここにいる位の人数だと

  • It's quite likely in an audience this size

    突然死する人はいません

  • this won't happen to anybody here.

    突然死は稀になりました

  • Sudden death has become very rare.

    悲劇のヒロインのような死は

  • The death of Little Nell and Cordelia and all that sort of stuff

    もう起きません

  • just doesn't happen anymore.

    この末期疾患の

  • The dying process of those with terminal illness

    死に方は

  • that we've just seen

    若い人に多く

  • occurs to younger people.

    80歳以上では少ないです

  • By the time you've reached 80, this is unlikely to happen to you.

    80歳以上で癌で死ぬのは 10人に一人だけ

  • Only one in 10 people who are over 80 will die of cancer.

    大幅に増加している 死因はこちらです

  • The big growth industry are these.

    臓器不全で死ぬ人が増えています

  • What you die of is increasing organ failure,

    呼吸器 心臓 腎臓など

  • with your respiratory, cardiac, renal,

    臓器の機能が止まったら

  • whatever organs packing up. Each of these

    救急病院に入院です

  • would be an admission to an acute care hospital,

    そして もう十分だと言われるまで

  • at the end of which, or at some point during which,

    治療を続けます

  • somebody says, enough is enough, and we stop.

    そして これが最大の成長分野

  • And this one's the biggest growth industry of all,

    今日お集まりの10人中6人は

  • and at least six out of 10 of the people in this room

    これが理由で死にます

  • will die in this form, which is

    衰弱がひどくなることに伴う

  • the dwindling of capacity

    身体能力の衰えです

  • with increasing frailty,

    衰えは老化において 避けられませんが

  • and frailty's an inevitable part of aging,

    だんだん衰弱することが

  • and increasing frailty is in fact the main thing

    現代人の主な死因です

  • that people die of now,

    残念ながら晩年は

  • and the last few years, or the last year of your life

    かなりの障害をもって 過ごすことになります

  • is spent with a great deal of disability, unfortunately.

    楽しんでます?(笑)

  • Enjoying it so far? (Laughs)

    (笑)

  • (Laughter)

    悲劇の預言者みたいな気分だ

  • Sorry, I just feel such a, I feel such a Cassandra here.

    (笑)

  • (Laughter)

    明るい話をしましょう

  • What can I say that's positive? What's positive is

    衰弱するほど高齢まで

  • that this is happening at very great age, now.

    長生きする人が多いということです

  • We are all, most of us, living to reach this point.

    昔は違いました

  • You know, historically, we didn't do that.

    長生きすれば

  • This is what happens to you

    こういう死に方になるのです

  • when you live to be a great age,

    延びるのは老年期だけで

  • and unfortunately, increasing longevity does mean

    若年期は増えません

  • more old age, not more youth.

    残念な事ですが(笑)

  • I'm sorry to say that. (Laughter)

    私たち病院などの関係者は

  • What we did, anyway, look, what we did,

    死についての問題を

  • we didn't just take this lying down

    見過ごしませんでした

  • at John Hunter Hospital and elsewhere.

    不測の事態の備えに

  • We've started a whole series of projects

    もっと関わってもらおうと

  • to try and look about whether we could, in fact, involve

    一連のプロジェクトを 始めました

  • people much more in the way that things happen to them.

    もちろん

  • But we realized, of course, that we are dealing

    文化上の問題も承知でした

  • with cultural issues,

    クリムトの絵です

  • and this is, I love this Klimt painting,

    よく見ると 本質的なことが

  • because the more you look at it, the more you kind of get

    描かれています つまり―

  • the whole issue that's going on here,

    生と死は はっきり分かれるということ

  • which is clearly the separation of death from the living,

    そして恐怖

  • and the fearLike, if you actually look,

    目を開けた

  • there's one woman there

    女性がいます

  • who has her eyes open.

    死神は彼女を

  • She's the one he's looking at,

    狙っています 見えますか?

  • and [she's] the one he's coming for. Can you see that?

    彼女は怯えている

  • She looks terrified.

    素晴らしい絵です

  • It's an amazing picture.

    ともかく文化上の理由で

  • Anyway, we had a major cultural issue.

    人は死の話を聞きたがらない

  • Clearly, people didn't want us to talk about death,

    そう予想しました

  • or, we thought that.

    そこで政府と公共医療機関から

  • So with loads of funding from the Federal Government

    予算をもらい

  • and the local Health Service, we introduced a thing

    我々の病院で 事前ケア計画を導入しました

  • at John Hunter called Respecting Patient Choices.

    研修を受けた数百人が

  • We trained hundreds of people to go to the wards

    病棟を訪ね 患者たちに死の話をして

  • and talk to people about the fact that they would die,

    終末期の希望を聞きました

  • and what would they prefer under those circumstances.

    患者も家族も大変喜びました

  • They loved it. The families and the patients, they loved it.

    98%がこれを 普通の診療として

  • Ninety-eight percent of people really thought

    あるべき形と

  • this just should have been normal practice,

    思ってくれました

  • and that this is how things should work.

    伝えられた希望は

  • And when they expressed wishes,

    全て叶いました

  • all of those wishes came true, as it were.

    実現できたのです

  • We were able to make that happen for them.

    しかし予算が底をつき

  • But then, when the funding ran out,

    半年後に確認したら

  • we went back to look six months later,

    打ち切りになっていました

  • and everybody had stopped again,

    誰もこの対話をしなくなり

  • and nobody was having these conversations anymore.

    とても残念なことでした

  • So that was really kind of heartbreaking for us,

    うまくいくと思ったのに

  • because we thought this was going to really take off.

    死を嫌う文化の問題は 根強かったんです

  • The cultural issue had reasserted itself.

    本題です

  • So here's the pitch:

    ICU行きの高速に 乗ってもいいのか

  • I think it's important that we don't just get on this freeway

    真剣に考えることが

  • to ICU without thinking hard about whether or not

    とても大切です

  • that's where we all want to end up,

    老い衰えるほど

  • particularly as we become older and increasingly frail

    ICUで出来る事は少ないのです

  • and ICU has less and less and less to offer us.

    その道を望まない

  • There has to be a little side road

    人達のための 横道がないといけません

  • off there for people who don't want to go on that track.

    将来に関して 私には

  • And I have one small idea,

    小さいアイデアと 大きなアイデアがあります

  • and one big idea about what could happen.

    小さい方は

  • And this is the small idea.

    ジェイソンの提案のように

  • The small idea is, let's all of us

    ローテクな方法で 参加しましょう

  • engage more with this in the way that Jason has illustrated.

    こういう会話を

  • Why can't we have these kinds of conversations

    お年寄りや

  • with our own elders

    死が近い人と持ちましょう

  • and people who might be approaching this?

    できる事が2つ

  • There are a couple of things you can do.

    1つ目はシンプルで

  • One of them is, you can,

    誰でもできる 失敗のない問いかけです

  • just ask this simple question. This question never fails.

    「重体で意思伝達が できなくなったら

  • "In the event that you became too sick to speak for yourself,

    誰に代弁してほしいですか?」

  • who would you like to speak for you?"

    大事な質問です

  • That's a really important question to ask people,

    誰に代弁を頼むかという決定権を

  • because giving people the control over who that is

    本人が持つことで 結果が違ってきますからね

  • produces an amazing outcome.

    2つ目は

  • The second thing you can say is,

    「何が大切か

  • "Have you spoken to that person

    私達にも伝わるよう

  • about the things that are important to you

    代弁者の方に 言い残してありますか?」

  • so that we've got a better idea of what it is we can do?"

    それが小さいアイデアです

  • So that's the little idea.

    大きい方は

  • The big idea, I think, is more political.

    皆で力を合わせて

  • I think we have to get onto this.

    「死を占拠」するべきです

  • I suggested we should have Occupy Death.

    (笑)

  • (Laughter)

    妻は「あーはいはい

  • My wife said, "Yeah, right, sit-ins in the mortuary.

    死体安置所で座り込みね」(笑)

  • Yeah, yeah. Sure." (Laughter)

    そうは行きませんでしたが

  • So that one didn't really run,

    ピンと来ました

  • but I was very struck by this.

    実は 私はヒッピーです

  • Now, I'm an aging hippie.

    この歳ではそう見えないでしょうが

  • I don't know, I don't think I look like that anymore, but

    うちの子達は 80年代に 当時話題だった

  • I had, two of my kids were born at home in the '80s

    自宅出産で生まれました ベビーブーマー世代なので

  • when home birth was a big thing, and we baby boomers

    何でも自分主導でやりたくて

  • are used to taking charge of the situation,

    あの頃の「誕生」を 「死」に置き換えるわけです

  • so if you just replace all these words of birth,

    「平和 愛 自然死」 なんていいと思います

  • I like "Peace, Love, Natural Death" as an option.

    現行の医療重視の

  • I do think we have to get political

    モデルからプロセスを

  • and start to reclaim this process from

    取り戻すべきです

  • the medicalized model in which it's going.

    安楽死肯定に聞こえるが

  • Now, listen, that sounds like a pitch for euthanasia.

    はっきり言います

  • I want to make it absolutely crystal clear to you all,

    安楽死は大嫌いです

  • I hate euthanasia. I think it's a sideshow.

    実際大した問題でもないと

  • I don't think euthanasia matters.

    思っています

  • I actually think that,

    医師のほう助による

  • in places like Oregon,

    自殺ができる オレゴン州でも

  • where you can have physician-assisted suicide,

    毒を摂取するのは

  • you take a poisonous dose of stuff,

    0.5%の人だけです

  • only half a percent of people ever do that.

    99.5%は それを望まなかった

  • I'm more interested in what happens to the 99.5 percent

    私はそちらに興味があります

  • of people who don't want to do that.

    人は死にたくないが

  • I think most people don't want to be dead,

    自分の死の過程は

  • but I do think most people want to have some control

    自分でコントロールしたい

  • over how their dying process proceeds.

    安楽死には反対です

  • So I'm an opponent of euthanasia,

    本人に決定権を戻すべきです

  • but I do think we have to give people back some control.

    そうすることで 安楽死を廃止するのです

  • It deprives euthanasia of its oxygen supply.

    安楽死が必要だという考えを

  • I think we should be looking at stopping

    安楽死が必要だという考えを

  • the want for euthanasia,

    なくすべきです 違法か合法かは問題ではありません

  • not for making it illegal or legal or worrying about it at all.

    学生の時に出会った シシリー・ソンダース博士の

  • This is a quote from Dame Cicely Saunders,

    言葉です

  • whom I met when I was a medical student.

    ホスピス活動創始者です

  • She founded the hospice movement.

    「貴方は貴方ゆえ大切なのです

  • And she said, "You matter because you are,

    貴方の人生の 最後の瞬間まで大切です」

  • and you matter to the last moment of your life."

    このメッセージを

  • And I firmly believe that

    推進すべきと 固く信じています

  • that's the message that we have to carry forward.

    ありがとう(拍手)

  • Thank you. (Applause)

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

実はかなり迷いました

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A2 初級 日本語 TED 治療 死に 死ぬ 集中 患者

TED】ピーター・ソール死について語ろう(ピーター・ソール:死について語ろう (【TED】Peter Saul: Let's talk about dying (Peter Saul: Let's talk about dying))

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    Ji-Jheng He に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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