- [Joni] People were very protective of me,

overly so, I mean, I was in the industry

for a long time before I had any idea

of what drugs people were doing, you know.

I just said, "Jeez, he's looking awful skinny.

"Why? Doesn't he have an appetite?"

You know, I was very, very sheltered

when I first entered into it.

I was young for my age, not as naive

as they expected, but you know,

I don't know why I seem to bring that out in people.

That's Miss Puss.

- [Joe] Hi, Miss Puss.

- [Joni] She's saying hello.

(light guitar music plays)

- [Joni] You know, I like my freedom,

I like to do my own grocery shopping.

People do recognize you.

They are kind of shocked.

Some people like it, it makes them feel at ease,

you know, it confirms their hopes

that you are, in fact, similar to them, you know.

Some people can't stand it.

One time, I sat down, we had good tickets

on the floor at some rock concert

and we moved in, we got there late,

and the fellow sitting next to me said,

"You can't sit here."

I said, "Why not? I've got tickets."

"But you're Joni Mitchell."

I said, "So?"

He said, "Well you shouldn't be sitting there.

"You should be backstage or you should be up in that box."

He was very annoyed.

Some people are upset to see you doing ordinary things.

Those people, if they were a celebrity,

they would have an entourage, you know.

If you see yourself as a kingly type,

then you need serfs and your army and someone around you.

(light guitar music plays)

- [Joni] I like to move around.

I travel, I've driven across country by myself.

When I felt, you know, people were nosing me out,

well I moved on, I used traveling names,

wigs if necessary.

I didn't think I had much of a following in the South,

I thought I was anonymous down there,

so I kept to the South but I found

that in certain pockets that I was quite recognizable

and I just hit a wig store.

(light guitar music plays)

- [Joni] At that time, I was pretty much

a Good Time Charlie, I was a bad student

in the school system.

I failed the 12th grade.

I had done my book reports from classic comics.

- [Joe] Oh really?

- [Joni] I was anti-intellectual to the nth.

Basically, I liked to dance and paint and that was about it

and as far as serious discussions went,

at that time, most of them were overtly

pseudo-intellectual and boring, you know,

like to see teenagers sitting around

solving the problems of the world,

I thought, "All things considered, I'd rather be dancing."

(light guitar music plays)

- [Joni] I liked playing in small clubs.

I really liked holding the attention of 30 or 40 people.

I'd never liked the roar of the big crowd.

I didn't like the sound of people gasping

at the mere mention of my name.

It horrified me.

It also, for a lot of reasons,

because I knew people were fickle

and I knew that they were buying an illusion,

I didn't want there to be such a gulf

between who I presented and who I was.

As Geffen pointed out, he said,

"You're the only star I ever met

"that wanted to be ordinary."

You know, I never really wanted to be a star.

I didn't like entering a room with all eyes on me.

I still don't really like the attention of a birthday party.

I prefer Christmas, you know,

which is everybody's holiday.

You know, it's just my nature.

I don't like to be that zeroed in on like en masse.

Over the years, I've adjusted to it.

Now, I'm the other way around.

You can give me 400,000 hostile people

and I won't even break sweat

but if you give me 200 adoring people,

my mouth will dry up.

I don't know how to sell out.

If I tried to sell out, I don't think I could.

By that, I mean to make an attempt

to make a commercial record.

I just make 'em and I think,

"If I was a kid, I would like this song."

You know, so you have to have a certain amount

of grab-ability initially and then something

that wears well that you'll love for years to come.

That's what anything fine is.

It's recognized in painting, it's not recognized.

I'm just working in a toss away industry, you know.

I'm a fine artist working in a commercial arena, you know,

so that's my cross to bear.

("Both Sides Now" by Joni Mitchell)

- [Joni] I have lost my credibility as a hit maker

because of these side excursions

into other branches of music,

by not being consistent, consistency seems to be

all important. - [Joe] Do you regret it?

Oh, I would do the same thing in a minute.

Are you kidding?

Oh, I don't, no, I have no regret.

- [Joe] Have you accepted the fact that you don't sell more?

I mean, is it, does it make you angry?

- [Joni] What I'm telling you is

no, it doesn't make me angry.

It makes me curious why.

(light guitar music plays)

- [Joe] Do you ever get periods where nothing comes,

I mean, when you're writing?

Are there dry periods there

or are you prolific enough to keep writing?

- [Joni] Musically, I would never run dry.

Any time I sit down to an instrument, I could write a song.

You know, I try not to steal from myself,

but the modalities create similarities, you know.

Musically, I don't think I'd ever dry up.

I trust my musical invention.

Lyrics are hard.

(light guitar music plays)