presidents from the beginning all the way through almost up to the present. And said,

rate them on this psychopathic scale. And they did and right at the top was Teddy Roosevelt.

Then FDR, then JFK. Bill Clinton was right up there. People really low on the -- way

low in psychopathy like Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, George Bush Sr., very low psychopathy.

George Bush's son is kind of in the middle.

So anyway there's this group that are very high, group low. The thing is is that if you

look at what people consider leadership -- who am I gonna follow -- they pick the people

at the top. They're picking and voting for and enjoying the psychopathic traits because

those are the people that you think are the ones who can lead you. And, in fact, these

are -- you know, psychopaths are known for really being world champ liars -- pathological

liars. Even for the hell of it, right. And so if you look at people at the top of the

presidential list they did, in fact, lie. But the thing is they lied for us. They lied

to protect us. And people for some reason don't seem to mind psychopathic behavior when

it's done on their behalf. It's like the person who wants to get the best deal. They want

the money manager that's gonna -- if they're gonna cheat, cheat for me. Make me money.

If you're gonna lie, lie and save me, save us.

And so a lot of the behavior of leaders like that who have these are such that people will

say they don't like it but they vote for it over and over and over again. So it must be

something very essential in us. They're not thinking I want to vote for a psychopath but

they like those traits and those traits are strongly associated with psychopathy.

You would also think people would say well Hitler and all those Nazi leaders must have

been psychopaths. And yet the analysis by many, many psychiatrists over the years -- Hitler

does not come up as a psychopath and none of those Nazis do at all. They're all family

men. They're all very smart and they thought they were doing their job.

And that's why Hannah Arendt when she talked about this she didn't call it psychopathy

but she -- the way she analyzed it is that people will get into a position and they're

just little pieces of a bigger organization. That organization is evil, right. It's the

banality of evil is what she called it. But each individual's role is sort of hidden.

And so people with those tendencies can be not fully psychopathic but they will do things

that within an organization will get them what they want. So they helped the launch

and it's a fulcrum for general psychopathy, let's say, in a culture country. So that's

a little bit different. But the individual ones -- there's a study that just came out

on Mafia in Sicily. So they took imprisoned Mafia -- now these were not the very top guys

but kind of the middle management of the Mafia. And all of them tested lower in psychopathy

than the average person. No psychopathy. But you would think that Nazis, Mafia is psychopathy.

It's not.

See there's kind of a misunderstanding of what it is. And there are really very few

psychopathic killers. And there's very few of the ones you would see in a film or TV.

Extremely rare people. But they are working with you and they, you know, in any organization

that has more than about 35 people there's gonna be somebody in there that's really a

psychopath but they put themselves there and they're usually in a spot where they can lord

it over people just below them and get what they want and use a manipulation and some

intimidation. And they can use it to get sex. They can use it to get money, to manipulate

and steal whatever it is or just to create a world that they own. And that would be another

part of this. There are -- there's a kind of psychopathy that they're not getting anything

for. There's no sex, drugs, money or anything like that. But they are creating a world that

they bring you into. And they control you. But most of them don't do any of these really

fully criminal nasty violent things at all because they don't want to go to jail. They

don't want to get caught. They like their life. They really like their life.