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  • >>Male Presenter: Hi everyone. My name is Toma Shaun. I'm a User-Experience Researcher

  • and I'm very happy to introduce you to Guy Winch, a psychologist, who's gonna talk about

  • complaint psychology. If you really want his book, "The Squeaky Wheel," and you didn't

  • get it, please let the Authors at Google team know and we'll purchase books for you. Go

  • ahead.

  • >>Guy Winch: All right. Thank you. Am I on? Yes. Excellent. Alright.

  • So, welcome everyone and thanks for having me, Toma. Today, I'm going to tell you how

  • our complaining psychology affects our lives and our relationships.

  • Now, I know the topic of complaints is not one that elicits positive connotations for

  • most people, but I really hope to change that. Case in point, I want to tell you about the

  • day my book came out. Like most writers, I dreamed for years about the day I will be

  • able to see a book I wrote on the shelves of a bookstore.

  • So the day my book was published, I ran down to my local bookstore with my favorite pen

  • in hand, because my agent said, "Oh, they're going to ask you to sign books." So, I had

  • my pen. I ran up to the customer service desk where the customer service manager was standing

  • and said, "I’m Guy Winch and my book just came out."

  • And she said, "Winch. Oh. Let me see." And she looked it up and she goes, "Oh. Here it

  • is. The Squeaky Wheel. Complaining? Ooh, I hate people who complain. Ugh." And she turned

  • away.

  • [laughter]

  • I realized I won't be needing my pen. But I took comfort in the fact that if she hates

  • people who complain that much, she must really love her job as a customer service manager.

  • [laughter]

  • But I also understood how she felt. We complain more today than ever before in history. We

  • complain about everything from the weightiest global issues to the smallest details of our

  • daily lives.

  • We complain about the actions of our favorite television characters with the same immediacy

  • and passion as we do about the actions of our spouse or our friends. And yet, even our

  • best complainers, our kvetching prodigies, even the cream of our moaning crop rarely

  • get the results they want.

  • Today, we are all squeaky wheels, but we don't get the grease. We face daily frustrations

  • and irritations and we don't have a clue about how to address them effectively. Now, I can

  • see your faces and know what some of you are thinking but let me ask you this.

  • The last time your partner or your roommate or your colleague did something that really

  • annoyed you, did you say something to them about it? If you did, did you get the result

  • you wanted? The last time a sales person was rude to you in a store, did you speak to the

  • manager?

  • The last time the dish you ordered in a restaurant was not cooked properly, did you send it back?

  • Complaints are a much bigger factor in our life than we realize and not just because

  • we have so many of them, but mostly because of what happens to us psychologically when

  • we do.

  • The thing is the urge to complain triggers a powerful and negative psychological mindset

  • that impacts our feelings and our behaviors and dramatically affects our lives and our

  • relationships for the worse.

  • And we don't even realize that is happening. Now, when a psychologist tells you that the

  • mere urge to complain triggers powerful, hidden, destructive forces inside your mind, I understand

  • that can sound like pure theory.

  • [laughter]

  • So, the first topic I'll cover today is what the research tells us about complaining psychology.

  • I'll explain what this mindset does to us and what our complaining psychology is costing

  • us in various aspects of our lives.

  • Then, I'll tell you what you can do about it. I'll give you the recipe for preparing

  • a Complaint Sandwich and I'll tell you how to eat one as well. Google recently opened

  • a new call center. So, we'll talk about the challenges those folks might be facing and

  • we'll end with an inspiring story about extra-large brassieres and their occupants.

  • Hopefully by the end of today, I'll have changed your minds about complaints so you can see

  • them for the opportunities they truly are. But let's begin with the research. And here

  • we see the first gap between what we perceive we do and what we actually do.

  • Most people think they would speak up if they were on the losing end of a bad deal. If something

  • you purchased arrived in the wrong size, if it was broken, if it didn't do what it was

  • supposed to do, most of us think we would complain. And yet, study after study demonstrates

  • that when we are dissatisfied with certain purchases, 95% of us fail to complain to the

  • company in question, ninety-five percent. Only 5% of us speak up to the company. And

  • when we ask people why they haven't spoken up in these situations, this is what they

  • say. Here's how we justify why we don't complain. We believe complaining to the company will

  • require too much time and effort.

  • We believe the process of complaining will be too annoying and aggravating. We believe

  • that even if we did complain, we won't get a satisfying result. Now, these might seem

  • like compelling arguments except for one thing.

  • Those very same people will then relay the tale of consumer woe to an average of 16 friends

  • and acquaintances and getting re-aggravated every time they do it, expending incredible

  • time and effort in doing it and resolving nothing. So, do you see the paradox? We voice

  • our complaints to everyone except the people who can actually resolve them.

  • This same contradiction operates in every sphere of our lives. When we feel hurt or

  • annoyed or disappointed by something our partners or our friends or our family members did or

  • said, we usually don't voice complaints to them for all the same reasons.

  • We believe it will require hours of talking and discussion. We believe doing so will be

  • too aggravating because it will lead to an argument. And we believe that even if we tried

  • complaining to these people, it won't resolve the matter to our satisfaction. In other words,

  • we use the very same reasons to justify why we don't complain in our personal lives as

  • we do in our lives as consumers.

  • And here's the other similarity. Instead of complaining directly to our family members

  • or to our friends or our colleagues when we're upset with them, we complain about them to

  • our other family members, our other friends, and our other colleagues. I mean, let's be

  • honest.

  • Locker room acquaintances are more likely to hear what your spouse did to annoy you

  • than your actual spouse. Now sadly, all this effort in complaining to everyone doesn't

  • work. And what it does do is convince us that well, complaining doesn't work so why try?

  • And then the next time we're upset with something, we're even less likely to voice it to the

  • people who can fix it for us. This is a textbook example of a self-defeating prophecy and we

  • all do it. But perhaps the best illustration of how broken our complaining psychology truly

  • is, is the global phenomenon known as Complaints Choirs.

  • This is the Chicago Choir. But all over the world people are gathering in town squares

  • and concert halls to sing their complaints to originally composed music, at times accompanied

  • by symphony orchestras. I wish I was kidding. I'm not. You can look them up on YouTube.

  • There are many of them with hundreds of thousands of page views. Now, here is, for example,

  • is St. Petersburg Complaints Choir in Russia. Here is the Tokyo Complaints Choir. Here is

  • the Cairo Complaints Choir, albeit before the uprising. I'm not sure they're singing

  • currently.

  • There are many, many others. Now, since this phenomenon was a Finnish invention, here's

  • the Helsinki Complaints Choir. The Helsinki Complaints Choir has two main complaints.

  • Their first complaint is that their trams, their public transportation systems smell

  • like urine.

  • And their second complaint is they don't get laid enough. Well, maybe they shouldn't take

  • the trams to their dates. Do you know what I'm saying?

  • [laughter]

  • Here's why this phenomenon is so tragic. Think of how many hours go into preparing the concepts

  • and the lyrics and the composing and the matching outfits. If the Helsinki Choir stood outside

  • their City Hall and sang to their politicians, "If you don't clean up our trams, we won't

  • vote for you," someone would clean their trams.

  • But they don't do that. None of the choirs do. They have this amazing platform and none

  • of the choirs use it to actually try and fix the things they're singing about. None of

  • them. So, they sing in Times Square and their concert halls and it's all very funny, but

  • nothing changes.

  • By the way, I recently mentioned the Helsinki Choir in a keynote address I gave a few weeks

  • ago because I thought if I mention one of the American choirs, there's the Chicago and

  • Philadelphia and Memphis and others I didn't wanna offend anyone in the audience.

  • So, I did Helsinki and the minute I finished my talk, a woman marches up to me and she

  • goes, "I'm from Helsinki."

  • [laughter]

  • So that's awkward. And then she says to me, "Helsinki is a great city. It's where they

  • made Angry Birds."

  • [laughter]

  • And I'm thinking, Angry Birds? That's the best she had? I mean, Helsinki is lovely.

  • It's got far more going for it than Angry Birds. But the thing about Angry Birds is

  • Angry Birds don't call each other up and go, "Can you believe what those pigs did? They

  • stole my eggs. I'm just fuming about it." They don't. Angry Birds take action.

  • [laughter]

  • They launch themselves at those pigs. Angry Birds in Helsinki get stuff done. Angry people?

  • Not so much. It's true. You don't see choir members launching themselves into the air.

  • You don't see the choir members smashing into the trams.

  • [laughter]

  • By the way, I should point out no actual choir members were hurt during the preparation of

  • these slides.

  • [laughter] The thing is the mindset we bring to complaining

  • situations is broken. We have a fundamental apprehension about complaining. We have a

  • deep-seated belief that we will not be heard.

  • We feel helpless and powerless about being able to get results and so we don't even try

  • to complain effectively. But because we have so many complaints, how we deal or rather,

  • not deal with them could have a real impact on our lives and the evidence for that is

  • all around us.

  • In terms of results, most of us have a shelf in our closet, or our garage, where we put

  • all the purchases that arrived in the wrong size or that were missing a crucial piece

  • that we were going to return, but we never quite got around to making the call. I call

  • it "the shelf of complaining shame," frankly.

  • But some people have clothing and programs and electronics and hundreds and thousands

  • of dollarsworth of products on that shelf. Most people have pet peeves, for example,

  • about their partners; things their loved ones do that drive them absolutely crazy.

  • Sexual behaviors that can be distracting or relationship habits that can be really hurtful

  • or personal habits that can be slightly revolting. Now, we don't know how to complain about this

  • stuff and the more important stuff. And the things is that those kinds of things can really

  • erode our feelings over time and hasten and bring about the end of our relationships.

  • In our communities, most of our neighbors are upset about the same things we are. They

  • also think there should be a traffic light on that corner. They also find it annoying

  • to arrive for a doctor's appointment on time and then spend over an hour in the waiting

  • room anyway.

  • They also get annoyed when the local grocery store doesn't take expired products off their

  • shelves. But no one speaks up about those things. And have you ever spoken up about

  • such things? We don't feel we can do anything about these situations, about these small

  • and not so small irritations when they happen.

  • But walking around feeling defeated and upset and powerless on a regular basis affects our

  • mood. And it affects our self-esteem. And it can even affect our mental health. But

  • if we knew how to complain effectively, if we had the tools, if we mastered the techniques

  • that could get us results, if we had confidence in our complaining ability, we could turn

  • all those problems around.

  • And doing so would improve our quality of lives in so many different ways. For example,

  • currently only 1% of our complaints reach company executives, reach the actual decision-makers

  • who can change things. So, that's why things don't change.

  • And if we complained more effectively and they knew about it, they would improve products.

  • They would improve services. They would improve their procedures. All things we would gain

  • from. Our relationships would become stronger and more satisfying and longer lasting.

  • We know from research that couples that are able to discuss a complaint productively have

  • much higher marital satisfaction and much longer marital longevity than couples who

  • do not. It's a really huge thing in relationships. Our communities would function more smoothly

  • and do better for us.

  • For example, I'm sure some of you know this, but when women spoke out about having to wait

  • twice as long for bathrooms than men in sporting arenas and concert halls, places like New

  • York City passed the Potty Parity Bill. Have you heard of it? Well, great. Some of you

  • have, most of them men for some reason.

  • [laughter]

  • But now, the new Mets Stadium and Yankee Stadium and new construction has twice as many stalls

  • for women than it does for men. Those things really affect our lives when we do them. Getting

  • results when we have complaints would make us feel empowered, assertive, and effective.

  • And all the books and the magazines that say "feel empowered," well, they're getting something

  • very wrong because personal empowerment is not about a feeling. It's about having actual

  • influence in your relationships, in your life. If you don't, but you just "feel" empowered,

  • you won't "feel" empowered for long, I assure you.

  • But voicing meaningful dissatisfactions when you have them, getting the people around you

  • to change what they're doing, or your community to change what you're doing, that's the definition

  • of personal empowerment. In other words, we have to stop managing our complaints in ways

  • that are emotionally harmful to us and use them as psychological tools that could make

  • us stronger.

  • It's like Popeye and spinach, really. I'm sure you all know Popeye the Sailor. He was

  • even a Google Doodle in December of 2009. Are you familiar with it? OK. So for those

  • who aren't up on their Depression cartoons, Popeye is a pipe-smoking sailor who gets strong

  • by eating spinach, mostly from a can.

  • So, that's disgusting. But really, the spinach. So, well complaints are like spinach. They

  • could make us all stronger if we use them correctly, but we don't. It's as if Popeye,

  • instead of eating the spinach, just stuffed it into his pipe, smoked it, and got emphysema

  • and then thought, "Oh, complaints are bad."

  • No. How we use them is bad. So let's discuss how to use complaints correctly: how to eat

  • the spinach rather than smoke it; how to complain effectively; how to get results and improve

  • our quality of life. Now, to be able to complain effectively, we have to master a fundamental

  • problem.

  • We have to get our complaint through the other person's defense mechanisms. Pause. Think

  • back to the last time you got home at night and your significant other turned to you and

  • said, "We have to talk." I'm assuming there went your mood for the evening because you

  • immediately felt defensive like you were going to be attacked.

  • That's how we feel about complaints like we're going to be attacked. And so, what it does

  • is it triggers the fight or flight responses when we even sniff a complaint coming our

  • way. We either want to raise the drawbridge, flood the moat, and release the crocodiles.

  • Or, we want to escape the situation as rapidly as possible. For our complaint to be effective,

  • we have to voice it in a way that's the least likely to trigger the other person's defenses,

  • or at least trigger them on their lowest possible setting. The problem is that our urge to complain

  • is at its all-time strongest when we are at our most annoyed.

  • But the angrier we sound, the more defensive the other person gets and the less able they

  • will be to take in our complaint. And there is our complaining predicament. Our defensiveness

  • and their anger means we'll get an ineffective result and someone ends up sleeping on the

  • couch.

  • Now, to illustrate these dynamics and the solutions to them, I'm gonna give you three

  • common examples of complaints I hear all the time, both in my office from patients and

  • from friends. I chose common ones that you should be able to relate to. I'm gonna read

  • you three scenarios and I want you to imagine yourself in these scenarios.

  • Here's scenario number one. You're waiting for your significant other at the movie theater.

  • You've been dying to see the new movie everyone is talking about, but you've already missed

  • the first ten minutes of the film because your honey, as usual, is late.

  • Now, let's randomly assign genders to these scenarios just for illustration purposes.

  • And let's just randomly say the significant other in this scenario is a woman. Just randomly.

  • Scenario two. Your significant other has been working around the clock and you finally have

  • a free night together to enjoy a romantic dinner.

  • But you haven't been able to complete one train of thought because every few seconds

  • your honey glances over at their Android or smartphone to check or respond to emails.

  • Now let's randomly say the significant other in this scenario is a man. Again, randomly.

  • And lastly, scenario three, you went through major trouble for your significant other's

  • birthday and you threw them a surprise party with all their friends. You wake up on your

  • birthday all excited to find a gift certificate on the kitchen counter with a Post-it saying,

  • "Happy Birthday Honey."

  • Now, this one I typically hear from both genders. Let's take a quick vote. Who says this significant

  • other is a woman in this one? Was an easy vote. And a man? OK. So.

  • [laughter]

  • Apparently men are really bad gift-givers. OK, so now we have our scenarios. Chronic

  • lateness, smartphone attached like a Siamese twin, and a birthday reciprocity failure.

  • Now, I'm gonna give you some quotes how actual people I know complain, this is their actual

  • complaint. These are quotes, what they said in these situations. Here's the lateness situation.

  • "About flipping time. The movie started ten minutes ago. I am sick and tired of you being

  • late all the time. I'm tired of it."

  • And as you know, I practice in New York. So yes, I did paraphrase one of those words.

  • [laughter]

  • Scenario two. The smartphone. "I swear if you don't put that bleeping phone away right

  • now I will break it into a thousand pieces and shove them down your throat." Yes. She's

  • a delicate flower, that one.

  • And scenario three, the gift. "You're giving me a gift certificate for my birthday? Are

  • you kidding me? You gave your five-year old nephew a gift certificate for his birthday

  • and you think he's a spoiled brat." So, you might have every right to feel furious or

  • frustrated or hurt in these situations.

  • The question is are those complaints effective? No. Does raising our voice or losing our temper

  • motivate the other person to take responsibility? No. Do curses and threats compel people to

  • think through their behavior, see the error of their ways, and vow to change?

  • No. If we want the other person to hear us, to respond, to change, we have to forego the

  • brief, albeit sweet satisfaction of telling them off, of scoring points, of winning the

  • argument, and go for the far deeper and longer-lasting satisfaction of getting a meaningful result.

  • Sad as it is we cannot do both. The only way to get the other person to hear us, to digest

  • what we're saying is to make our complaint as delicious as possible by using the complaint

  • sandwich. The complaint sandwich is a simple technique that makes any complaint more effective.

  • It involves sandwiching the meat, the actual complaint between two positive statements,

  • the bread. And that does three things. It prevents the complaint recipient from becoming

  • too defensive. It focuses the attention of the other person on our actual complaint,

  • as opposed to on our anger or our attitude.

  • And it increases the likelihood the complaint recipient will respond positively. Now, the

  • structure of the complaint sandwich has three elements. It's simple, but the details are

  • not. So, let's look at them. The first slice of bread, the positive statement, I call the

  • "ear opener."

  • And its purpose is to do just that, to keep the ears of the complaint recipient open to

  • our actual complaint to follow. But coming up with a positive statement in some of these

  • situations is trickier than it seems. When I do this in my office with some patients--let's

  • say there's a husband who's annoyed with his wife about something with the kids, and I

  • say, "Give it a try." And he goes, "That's no problem. Um, nice blouse."

  • [laughter]

  • No. No. Unless his complaint is about her clothing, no. So, and let's look at what the

  • ear openers would be for our three situations. Here is the lateness situation. "Honey, I

  • know you make an effort to be on time." Now, some of you might think, "She's always late.

  • How is that something he can say?"

  • Well, people who are always late are actually trying to be on time. They're constantly rushed

  • and trying. They're trying to be on time. They're just horrible at it. So, we can say

  • you made an effort. Terrible, but you made an effort. So, here's the second scenario--the

  • phone.

  • "Babe, I know how hard it is to have a job where they expect you to respond to emails

  • after hour," because most people that have that job would rather not so we can easily

  • say that. And in the gift scenario, "I know I'm not easy to shop for, especially on birthdays

  • and holidays." And really, most adults aren't easy to shop for because if we want something,

  • we get it for ourselves.

  • So, it's not, we can always say that. I think that's an easy one. Now, the meat of the complaint

  • sandwich is our actual complaint. And here, the idea, the meat should be lean. We don't

  • want to marinate our meat in sarcasm or anger. That doesn't do any good.

  • And, we wanna stick to only one specific incident. Now, yes. It's terribly tempting to point

  • out all the other times the person was late. All the dinners that were ruined because of

  • the smartphone. Every birthday and holiday in which the gifts were inappropriate, starting

  • with the Christmas debacle of 2003.

  • But it's not useful. All that does is overwhelm the other person and then they get defensive

  • and they stop listening because they're busy planning their rebuttal. That's what theyre

  • doing. And they're busy thinking of a counterattack and they're busy wondering why they're with

  • us in the first place.

  • And do we realize our face looks funny when we get that angry. So it's not useful.

  • [laughter]

  • So let's look at what the meats would be for our complaint situations. Here's the lateness

  • situation. "Waiting for you made me really tense and irritable because I don't know how

  • late you'll be. I can't just switch these feelings off when you arrive so then I can't

  • enjoy what we're doing."

  • And here you'll notice it's all "I" statements. It's about explaining to the other person,

  • "Here's what goes wrong for me." Not, "You're late," or "You're inconsiderate." Here's what

  • happens. The second scenario is the phones. "Unfortunately, it's impossible for me to

  • relax, have a conversation and enjoy your company when you're checking your phone every

  • few minutes. It's just too disruptive."

  • Again, these are "I" statements. And in the third, "A gift card doesn't require much thought

  • or effort, so regardless of what's in it or where it's from, it just feels impersonal

  • and disappointing." So it's a complaint, but it's an explanation as well. The last slice

  • of bread is a positive statement I call the "digestive."

  • And that is that spoon full of sugar that helps the medicine go down. It also provides

  • incentive for the other person to respond positively because it should make it appear

  • to them what they can do to rectify the situation.

  • When we get a complaint and we know, "Oh, we can do this and things will be better,”

  • it's so much easier to just do this than when somebody's just really upset and we're not

  • sure what we can do about it. So, and when people ask me for complaining advice, I say,

  • "Well, what's the scenario?"

  • And they tell me. And I say, "Well, what is it you want to achieve?" And they always look

  • at me and they go, "Uhhh." They're not sure. And the idea is, think it through because

  • once you know what you actually want to achieve, it'll really help to direct you in terms of

  • how you complain, to whom you complain.

  • It's very useful. Let's look at the digesters for our scenarios. Here's the lateness one.

  • "If you could promise to be on time when you know something is important to me, I'll promise

  • to really appreciate it because I'll know it took a huge effort." Now, it's hard to

  • get the late person to be on time.

  • But that works so much better than the threats and the anger. That motivates them to at least

  • to trying. The second scenario with the phones. "If we agreed to turn off our phones when

  • we're having dinner or talking about something important it would allow me to enjoy our time

  • together so much more."

  • And some people say to me, "Well I can't just be off for an hour. I work for this investment

  • bank or whatever." And I say, "Fine. Take five minutes in the middle of the dinner.

  • Turn the phone on. Check. Respond and turn it off again, but spend 55 minutes with the

  • other person."

  • And the last scenario is, there we go. "I know you worry about getting me the wrong

  • thing but I promise if it's obvious you put thought into a gift, I'll always be pleased."

  • Which is a nice way to say it.

  • Now, when I work with couples and they start using the complaint sandwich with one another,

  • all of their arguments get easier because the minute they see somebody racking their

  • brain and starting with this ear opener thing, the other person starts smiling and says,

  • "Oh, you're gonna serve me a complaint sandwich."

  • And there's much less tension and then they're actually discussing things. It's really useful.

  • It's like shorthand for "Let's not argue, but" And it's really great. Now, complaining

  • in a relationship is a two-way street. So I also want to tell you how to eat a complaint

  • sandwich, or really how to respond to a complaint whether it's served to you as a sandwich or

  • not.

  • When it comes to being on the receiving end of a complaint, one of the most common mistakes

  • people make and by people I mean men is to interrupt the other person with an explanation

  • or a solution or an apology before they've finished speaking. Familiar, is it?

  • It should be. Now, all that does is frustrate the other person more because from their perspective,

  • until they've finished telling you why they're upset, any solution or any apology you make,

  • doesn't seem authentic 'cause you don't yet know what you're apologizing for.

  • So, principle number one. Do not interrupt the initial complaint, however long it takes.

  • If I can do that with my mother, you can do that with other people because she goes on

  • forever.

  • [laughter]

  • The other thing is verify you understand exactly why the other person is upset. One of the

  • most common things that happen is that one person is complaining about X and the other

  • person is complaining about Y.

  • And so, they're actually not talking about exactly the same thing. And then they both

  • feel unheard and they start to repeat themselves. I'm sure you've had these arguments. You're

  • saying the same thing. They're saying the same thing. You can script their next response.

  • You're going around and around. Nothing really is happening, but you keep at it for some

  • reason. That happens because you're not exactly talking about the same thing. For example,

  • in the birthday gift scenario, if the person just said, "I'm really annoyed about the gift."

  • Then you might think, "Oh, because I left it on the counter and didn't give it to her

  • in person." Or, "because there wasn't a card." Or because "maybe that wasn't the right store."

  • Or, "maybe I exceeded the budget we had agreed on." You can come up with five different scenarios

  • of why they might be upset.

  • So one thing I suggest is when the other person's upset, verify you understand exactly what

  • it's about. You can say, "I just want to understand to make sure I understand exactly why you're

  • upset. Is it this?" And by the way, that sentence alone, relationship gold.

  • Trust me. It really reassures the other person you're trying to understand. So, do that.

  • And the last thing is acknowledge the other person's feelings. You might not feel it's

  • your fault. You might feel that they're in the wrong. But it doesn't cost you anything

  • to just acknowledge how they feel.

  • You're not taking responsibility by doing that. You're not ceding any ground. You can

  • certainly say, "Honey, I can imagine how furious you were that I was 30 minutes late to a movie

  • you wanted to see so badly." And then say, "But your email said 8 o'clock, not 7:30."

  • So understanding their feelings and conveying that doesn't cost you anything. Being on the

  • receiving end of complaints is not easy for anyone. But it is perhaps hardest of all for

  • call center representatives, the people who answer the phone when we call a customer service,

  • or a technical support, or a sales hotline because they get yelled at for a living.

  • Now, Google began offering free phone support for its AdWords customers in North America,

  • I think in April. And I haven't spoken to any of those people, but their jobs are anything

  • like those in other call centers, then they're dealing with a huge amount of customer hostility.

  • How much? Studies show that call center representatives can deal with an average of ten hostile calls

  • a day. And I want to be clear what I mean when I say hostile. We're talking curses,

  • yelling, put-downs, insults, ridicule, personal threats and even death threats.

  • Truly. Now think about it a moment. I mean really ask yourselves have you ever called

  • a customer hotline and raised your voice? Most of us have. And you might be nice people.

  • Think about the not-nice people who do it. Now, we wouldn't speak that way to anyone

  • else in our lives, but when it comes to call center employees, it's open season.

  • And part of the reason is because of the systems that some companies, not all, but some companies

  • put in place, really annoying systems. It starts with the automated menus. They ask

  • for your account number, your social security number, your date of birth.

  • They want to know your mother's maiden name, the name of your first pet, the serial number

  • of the washing machine that's at the bottom of the machine, but it's bolted to your basement

  • floor. Then you finally get through to a recording who tells you, without a shred of irony, that

  • your time is really valuable to the company who's very busy wasting it.

  • [laughter]

  • And then you finally get to a live person and they have a foreign accent. Isn't that

  • annoying? OK. So, and that person then just proceeds to ask you all the same questions

  • all over again, while mispronouncing your name. Now, my name is simple.

  • Guy and Winch. It's one syllable apiece. And yet, here's some of the things that I get.

  • "How can I help you Mr. Wank?"

  • [laughter]

  • "Yes, Mr. Witch." And my favorite "Let me bring up your account Mr. Wench. Can I call

  • you Gay?"

  • [laughter]

  • So, we were annoyed before we even called. Let alone after that obstacle course, the

  • things is many companies have things in place which they call "planned inconvenience."

  • And their idea is to make it that difficult for customers to get through, so customers

  • will drop out. Here's the genius. They then have to hire fewer call center representatives

  • and great, they're saving money. Except that when people actually do get through, they

  • have so much more anger and hostility which they unleash on those call center representatives

  • that the call center representatives can't take it.

  • And they end up leaving after a few months or a year. Call center work is one of the

  • most stressful jobs that there are and it has one of the highest drop-out rates of any

  • industry. People just can't take it. It affects their mental health. It affects their physical

  • health.

  • And so, they leave. And what happens then is those companies might have saved money

  • on the reps, but now they have to invest money in hiring new people, in training new people,

  • and then guess what? Those new people are less experienced so they don't know what they're

  • doing.

  • So they get even angrier, so they leave even sooner. And on and on the vicious cycle goes.

  • Nobody wins. Now, while our anger might be justified, the people we're calling are entry

  • level employees with limited authority. And civility and respect will illicit far more

  • help and effort on their part than yelling and cursing.

  • I sometimes, when I'm really annoyed, will say, "I'm glad to speak with you. I'm sorry

  • if I sound annoyed, I'm just really frustrated and I hope you can help me, but it's really

  • not at you so please don't take it personally." And that disclaimer alone? They go, "Oh, great."

  • And they're much happier about it. The things is, what do companies do to help call center

  • employees manage the stress? They tell them in their brief week or so of training, "Ooh,

  • we're gonna give you techniques to manage stress. Here's technique number one. You can

  • ask the customer to stop yelling."

  • [laughter]

  • Glad we went for that one. "And here's another technique," they say. "Write down the number

  • of curses because most customers only have seven juicy curses in them." I mean, that's

  • like saying to a boxer, "Let your opponent keep hitting you in the face because eventually

  • they'll get exhausted."

  • [laughter]

  • In other words, most companies do very, very little to help their call center employees.

  • The problem is the companies don't understand complaining psychology. If they taught complaining

  • psychology to call center reps, it would help them because A, they would understand where

  • the customers are coming from and it would help them know how exactly to diffuse the

  • anger.

  • But companies, even the executives, don't understand. They don't understand that complaints

  • are like gold to them. Companies spend tens of thousands of dollars on focus groups. And

  • complaints are free focus groups.

  • They're telling you about problems with your products, or your procedures, or your services,

  • which you can just fix and avoid other problems and avoid customers complaining or leaving

  • or spreading bad word about you. But they don't do it. The tragedy of our complaining

  • psychology is that most people know so little about it, everyone loses.

  • Our relationships suffer because we don't know how to voice our satisfactions without

  • starting an argument. Our self-esteem suffers because we feel powerless to get results.

  • Call center employees suffer. Customers lose and companies lose.

  • The good news is we can start turning that around right now and make a difference in

  • our own lives and our own communities, because there are only three things required to have

  • an impact for you, for anyone. We need complaining savvy, which now you have a little bit of,

  • persistence and a belief that your complaint is right.

  • Sometimes, only a few people can make a difference in a community and sometimes it only takes

  • one person. And just to illustrate that point of how much of a difference one person can

  • make, I'm going to tell you about Beckie Williams and her extra-large brassiere.

  • Ms. Williams' story began in the fall of 2007, when as a 25-year old copywriter for children's

  • books in England, she was shopping for brassieres in Marks and Spencer, which I don't know if

  • you know, it's one of the largest retailers in all of England. And she noticed something

  • strange.

  • Bras that were sized double D and larger, had a two pound surcharge. That's three dollars

  • and change. And being in the larger category herself, she was a little annoyed by the pricing

  • discrepancy so she got home and dashed off a letter to Marks and Spencer saying, "Why

  • am I paying more for my bras?"

  • And they wrote back saying, "Well, it's to defray the costs of extra material the extra-large

  • bras require." And she thought, "Well, my blouses have extra material and I don't pay

  • more for those." So that didn't make sense to her. So she wrote back to Marks and Spencer

  • to point out all the flaws in their logic and didn't hear from them.

  • Marks and Spencer didn't respond. So, she was discussing this issue with some of her

  • busty friends as she calls them when she realized she doesn't like complaining without doing

  • something. So she decided she's going to do something. So she started a Facebook group

  • to petition Marks and Spencer about their pricing discrepancy.

  • And she called the group "Busts for Justice." Busts for Justice immediately swelled with

  • over 100 new members. So much so that a journalist in London saw the group and decided to write

  • a small story about it in a London newspaper in which Beckie Williams appeared outside

  • Marks and Spencer’s with one of her brassieres.

  • In the week following that national exposure, the Busts for Justice Facebook group ballooned

  • to huge proportions with over eight thousand new participants. And we're counting people,

  • by the way, as participants, who all started writing the company and Marks and Spencer

  • thought we'll issue a statement.

  • And what their statement said was, "Very few companies make those kinds of extra-large

  • brassieres. Those ladies should be grateful. We're not willing to jiggle our price one

  • bit." Which was slightly short-sighted on their part. So the discussion boards, when

  • that happened on Busts for Justice, teemed with activity and Marks and Spencer realized

  • "oops."

  • So they called Beckie Williams up for a meeting in which they said to her, "We're gonna discuss

  • pricing options with our manufacturers in China." Great. But then, the recession of

  • 2008 hit. And in Great Britain as well. And Marks and Spencer said, "Well, in this economic

  • climate there's nothing we can do."

  • And they stopped returning her calls. Now, you might think, "Well, what more can she

  • do, this 25-year old?" Right? But Beckie Williams had complaining savvy and she had persistence

  • and she really believed she was right. So here's what she did. In May of 2009, she went

  • out and bought one share of Marks and Spencer stock for roughly five dollars.

  • And then she called the journalist that put the story in the London paper and told her

  • that she and some of her busty friends will be attending the annual stockholders meeting

  • of Marks and Spencer in July where they will personally confront in person the Chair of

  • the company about their discriminatory pricing policies.

  • And the journalist knew a good story when she heard it and by the next morning, Beckie

  • Williams was on her way to London to tape a segment in a very popular breakfast television

  • show in which she described the upcoming confrontation. Forty-eight hours later, Marks and Spencer

  • folded.

  • They not only agreed to price all bras equally, they actually issued an apology to Beckie

  • Williams and her Facebook group. Now, being a British company, they absolutely had to

  • insert the obligatory pun. So, their apology was "We Boobed!"

  • [laughter]

  • But finally taking advantage of the amazing marketing opportunity that had been staring

  • them in the face all along, they announced a one-week bra sale to usher in this new era

  • of bra size equality.

  • Beckie Williams started out by writing a letter about a biased pricing policy and ending up

  • creating change on a national level that affected tens of thousands of women. And what's remarkable

  • is she did all of it without lawyers, without financing, without candlelit marches.

  • She only used three things we all have: complaining savvy, assistance, and a belief she was right.

  • Complaints can be powerful things. If we use them correctly, they can truly be our spinach.

  • They can get us results when we have been wronged. They can get our relationships back

  • on track when they've derailed.

  • They can improve our communities and they can help us feel stronger and better about

  • ourselves. Complaints can help companies serve their customers better by improving their

  • products and their services and becoming more profitable by doing that. Life presents us

  • with challenges and dissatisfactions every single day.

  • The next time you find yourself venting to someone who can't fix the problem instead

  • of to someone who can, remember that the door to your own psychological revolution could

  • start with that very complaint. If instead of just squeaking, you squeak effectively.

  • Thank you very much.

  • [applause]

  • So I think we're doing a Q&A. I'll take the As.

  • [laughter] Any Qs?

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #1: I have a question. Thank you very much for your talk. First of

  • all, did you take an actor class somewhere, sometime?

  • >>Guy Winch: I'm sorry?

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #1: Did you take an actor class sometime?

  • >>Guy Winch: A what class? A lecture class?

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #1: Actor.

  • >>Guy Winch: Actor class. No. I did not. Why? I'm sorry. No.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #1: That's OK. The second question is--

  • [laughter]

  • I think the--. You haven't so like really described the fundamental problem behind the

  • lack of complaining is that people afraid to confront other people. And those 5% who

  • do complain, they don't afraid to confront other people in general. So how can people

  • like raise their ability to confront others?

  • >>Guy Winch: OK. That's a very good question, but there are two aspects there. First of

  • all, many of our complaints are not gonna be in-person confrontations. We can write

  • letters. That's not very confrontative.

  • But the whole idea, for example, of the complaint sandwich is that it doesn't feel like a confrontation

  • when you do it that way. It doesn't feel like it to you, as a complainer, and it doesn't

  • feel like it to the other person. It feels much more like a pleasant transaction.

  • The whole idea of the confrontation is that we wait and then we bring so much anger to

  • the complaining situation because of our psychology that it turns into a confrontation. But my

  • point is exactly that's the wrong approach. We should just voice things. Do it pleasantly.

  • Start positively. And it feels much less like a confrontation and much easier for most of

  • us to do because most of us don't enjoy confrontations. That's a great question. Thank you.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #1: OK. Thank you.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #2: Hello.

  • >>Guy Winch: Hi.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #2: Do you have any recommendations on how to change the way people

  • complain to you that aren't someone like your partner that you can work constructively with?

  • >>Guy Winch: Yes.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #2: So like strangers on the street in New York, for example, that

  • seem to want to put their anger and frustration onto me? For example.

  • [laughter]

  • >>Guy Winch: I don't know what you're doing to the people when you're walking down the

  • street.

  • [laughter]

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #2: Do you want a better example?

  • >>Guy Winch: Well, the strangers in the street in New York just specifically, it might be

  • better to just keep walking. But--

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #2: So, I’ll give you an example. So, I was hiking a few weekends

  • ago and stopped at a restaurant after my hike with my friend to have a beer and whatever,

  • or a snack, and we were stretching on the porch--

  • >>Guy Winch: Mm-hmm.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #2: by our table while we were waiting for our food. And then

  • sat down when our food arrived and had a pleasant meal. And when we left, the guy sitting next

  • to us said under his breath, but loud enough so we could hear it, "Thank God they're leaving."

  • And, "Get a gym next time." I just kept walking, but this seems to happen to me all the time

  • for some reason. I don't know why.

  • [laughter]

  • And I can't really exactly go back to him and say, "Hey, can you give that to me in

  • a complaint sandwich next time?"

  • [laughter]

  • >>Guy Winch: Well, no. But look. First of all, I'm not sure where else you're stretching.

  • But other than that, but here's what you can say. I mean, I would turn to the person and

  • say, "You know if that really bothered you all you had to do was say something." In other

  • words, I'm really--.

  • Since I wrote my book, I've become horribly annoying because I will actually, no, it's

  • true. I will actually educate people about when they complain to me I'll give them pointers.

  • Like,--

  • [FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #2 laughs]

  • "Oh, you know what? Your anger was OK, but here's what you should really try."

  • [laughter]

  • And they're like, "What?" And I'm like, "You see, you started by telling me that I'm a

  • douchebag, but--

  • [laughter]

  • if in fact you started with a 'why' and then gave me the douchebag, I would've listened

  • more." I mean, so it's very annoying, but I'll go it.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #2: OK. That's really helpful. Thank you.

  • >>Guy Winch: Any other stretchers?

  • [laughter]

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #3: Don't you agree that there's just a certain segment of the

  • population that just complains for no reason? They don't want results. It's just a way of

  • whining or attention grabbing and what are your thoughts on that?

  • >>Guy Winch: Absolutely. There are chronic complainers. I talk about them in my book.

  • I didn't really have time to address them here. But there are chronic complainers. They're

  • not a majority, but there are people who really dissatisfied with everything.

  • It has much more to do with how they perceive the world because they don't see themselves

  • as complaining. They just see their lives as very bleak and they're responding to it

  • accurately. But they don't want to hear solutions. They don't want to be cheered up. They just

  • want to be validated like, "Yes, things are so terrible for you."

  • [laughter]

  • That's what makes them happy. If you try and tell them things are not so terrible, they're

  • not gonna be happy. But if you go, "Oh, that's just terrible," you'll see the [sighs], they're

  • just so pleased.

  • [laughter]

  • And maybe you know those people. And the thing is yes, some people, and they're gonna complain.

  • It's gonna be very, very hard to change them but there aren't that many of them. But they

  • usually, there's one or two around everywhere. And once you know it you can just steer clear

  • by just going, "Oh yes, that's terrible." And keep walking and get into trying to, "No,

  • but it's really not that bad." 'Cause that just, they'll tell you why it is and it'll

  • just go on forever. But yes, there are people like that.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #4: Hey. This actually happened like last week. So, I was in a taxi

  • and I, that was like very early in the morning and I asked the taxi driver to take me to

  • a place. And he charged me like extensively strong.

  • So I asked him to take me to a certain place and then I changed the direction and I told

  • him to go to another place and then he just doubled the price.

  • >>Guy Winch: What do you mean? There was a price on the meter and he just doubled it?

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #4: No, it's not on the meter. He initially told me it was like

  • 30 dollars or something and then later he said 65. So, and then I tried arguing with

  • him and then he started yelling at me. So that was a position where I just couldn't

  • help but then budge to him saying that, "OK, whatever be it, I'll just pay it and leave."

  • And ever since that night, I've complained to three other people after that about the

  • same situation. There was no other goal but to complain about it, so how would you deal

  • with such situation?

  • >>Guy Winch: Look. I'll tell you what I would do in that situation, but New York cabs is

  • just another book, isn't it? But I would just say to him, "Look, I can give you the extra

  • money you want and I'll be writing a letter to the TLC with all your information. Or,

  • I can give you the money we agreed upon in the first place plus a nice tip. It's your

  • choice. You tell me what you want."

  • I think that's the best you can do in those kinds of scenarios. Do you know what the TLC

  • is? It's the Taxi and Limousine Commission. There's usually a number posted in cabs and

  • livery cabs that you can. They have a number for complaints. I never called it. I don't

  • know how responsive they are. But yes, I would offer the option.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #4: Yeah, so I was basically considering that option but then

  • I just didn't go ahead and do it.

  • >>Guy Winch: But I think if you had, for example, you would've felt better about it.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #4: Yeah. Yeah.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #5: Hi. So, I'm one of these people that never complains at restaurants,

  • right? And I think and I've been thinking about it while you've been talking and sending

  • your food back is a huge hassle and it disrupts your meal.

  • You don't really want to do that. I don't wanna be perceived as saying, "Hey, how about

  • a round of free drinks?" Or, "Give me something." And I'm trying to think of what the second

  • slice of bread is in a sandwich if I were to say, "Excuse me, everything is really great,

  • but my steak is slightly underdone and I don't quite know what I want from you. I just want

  • you to know that I'm unhappy."

  • [laughter]

  • So I wonder what your recommendation is for that second slice of bread.

  • >>Guy Winch: You need to figure out what you want. I mean, and this is what I was saying

  • because when you don't, A you do get stuck and B, if you don't know, what's the manager

  • gonna do? I mean multiple choice? Do you want him to have to guess?

  • The thing is in restaurants, here's the thing. If something bothers you to the extent that

  • you might not go back to that restaurant, you're losing out and restaurant is losing

  • out. So why I believe in sending things back in certain restaurants, not at McDonalds.

  • I don't like the fries.

  • [laughter]

  • But in restaurants, why I believe that's important is because they will do something for you

  • because they want you to come back. And if that's gonna allow you to come back then I

  • think you should do it.

  • Now, usually when you return something they expedite the order. They don't make you wait

  • the other, unless you want another well done steak, it might take a while. But I think

  • it's important to give the restaurant an opportunity to rectify the situation. And then, your digestive

  • would be 'because I really like this restaurant and I come here a lot and I'd like to keep

  • coming here" for example. But you do have to figure out what you want. Unfortunately.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #6: So, you spoke a lot about how to deal with like companies

  • and complaining or specifically in like, interpersonal relationships and maybe this falls into the

  • interpersonal relationships category, but when, do have any special advice for the co-worker

  • scenario?

  • This may be different than someone you're romantically involved with or a company or

  • something.

  • >>Guy Winch: I don't want to put you on the spot, but is there a specific complaint you're

  • thinking?

  • [laughter]

  • By the way, are your colleagues?

  • [laughter]

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #6: Well, I mean, so actually it's really convenient 'cause the

  • guy that I used to complain a lot about to my wife, instead of to him, has actually quit.

  • >>Guy Winch: Excellent.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #6: Yeah, it's perfect.

  • [laughter]

  • >>Guy Winch: Does he get YouTube? I don't know. All right.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #6: So, but at any rate, it was just essentially like a low performance,

  • low quality of work and just feeling like no matter how many times we would talk about

  • how things could be better or different, they weren't.

  • >>Guy Winch: How did that impact you?

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #6: Well, because it made more work for me or--.

  • >>Guy Winch: OK. I understand.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #6: Or stuff like that.

  • >>Guy Winch: So look. So I do actually think it's important. I mean at work when you're

  • complaining in parallel, when you're complaining to colleagues or co-workers, I think it's

  • important to voice it. And you can say like, "I really think you're making a big effort

  • here or I really enjoy sharing the office with you," or whatever the opener would be,

  • "I really feel that in some cases you're not doing enough and I'm carrying a little bit

  • more of the load. So, I'm wondering if we can discuss how to take our next project and

  • give you a bigger slice of it to even it out a little bit." Something like that.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #6: OK. So still just another sandwich.

  • >>Guy Winch: It's always a sandwich.

  • >>MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #6: All right. Cool.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #7: Hi. Thank you for your talk. It's been entertaining. I wanted

  • to ask if you have any advice about choosing your complaining battles. So if my husband

  • says I complain about too many things, it then falls on deaf ears, even if it's in a

  • complaint sandwich.

  • Is there, do you have some advice about what to complain about?

  • >>Guy Winch: Yes. That's a really, really important question so I'm really glad you

  • asked it. We really have to think this through in our relationships because you want, in

  • general, 80% of what you say to your husband to be either neutral or positive and 20% to

  • be either directives or complaints.

  • Directives are the "honey come to dinner." Or complaints. No, I mean that's part of the

  • thing. So you can't have it be too negative. Even if they're actually doing things which

  • warrant 50% complaining, you really have to choose. You want the overall tone of your

  • communications to be as positive as possible.

  • So, A, you have to choose and prioritize and B, you have to order them so that they're

  • not too many coming at him at once. You wanna sit down and him take one complaint seriously,

  • fix that, and then voice another serious complaint after that rather than just fire them off

  • when you get home and then he just turns off and he's not listening to them anymore.

  • So, yes it's really important to prioritize. The ones which are most emotionally meaningful

  • to you are the ones I would start with, but one. And make the general tone of your dialogue

  • with him sound more positive before you do that and then he'll be more opening to listen

  • about your complaint, especially if you use the sandwich.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #7: So, a follow-up to that is I've noticed in some communications

  • with my husband, and I'm sure other people are familiar with this, that when someone

  • complains about something the other person says, "Well, you do that." So there's sort

  • of complaining back.

  • >>Guy Winch: First of all, when you try the sandwich you'll find that happens much, much

  • less. Secondly, you can say, "That's a great point. Since I'm the one that raised the thing

  • I wanted to discuss, let's separate those two discussions. Let's have this one first

  • and I promise you I'll sit through the other one when we're done with this one.

  • But let's do one thing at a time." OK.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #7: Thank you.

  • >>Guy Winch: You're welcome.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #8: Hi. Thank you for your talk. I just have a question regarding

  • other people eating the complaint sandwich. Unfortunately, there are often people in your

  • lives that don't like eating any sort of complaint sandwich, or any sort of feedback.

  • >>Guy Winch: Mm-hmm.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #8: And sometimes they're just difficult people and you have

  • to interact with them. How can you soften or make them more accepting of a complaint

  • sandwich when they are difficult people for example?

  • >>Guy Winch: Well, in my book I get into this a little bit because in certain scenarios

  • you have to really fluff up that bread more than in others. And so it could be that someone's

  • difficult and they're resistant.

  • That first slice of bread needs to be extra fluffy. And it could be that you need to explain

  • things in the meat section much, much more so they understand it. But essentially, yes.

  • Some people are just going to be very defensive, not many, but if you really work those elements

  • of the sandwich correctly, and in the examples I gave, the bread was very, it was half a

  • sentence, a sentence.

  • You can beef that up to three or four sentences of a preamble and then put the meat in then

  • add another three or four sentences in the digestive and that will make it much easier

  • for the other person to take in. It's not a guarantee. Some people just won't, but you're

  • best likelihood is to make the bread more extensive on either end.

  • >>FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER #8: Thank you.

  • >>Guy Winch: All right. Thank you very much everyone. I appreciate it.

  • [applause]

>>Male Presenter: Hi everyone. My name is Toma Shaun. I'm a User-Experience Researcher

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ガイ・ウィンチ|グーグルでの講演 (Guy Winch | Talks at Google)

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    River に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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