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  • >> Thanks so much for coming. I'm here to introduce David Chang, as you

  • know, the chef of Momofuku, Ssam Bar, Ko, Bakery and Milk Bar.

  • And after the talk, we'll do a little Q and A.

  • And then, up in Hemispheres -- if you were lucky enough to get a book -- David will be

  • signing books. All right? Thanks so much for coming.

  • Here's David Chang.

  • >> [Clapping]

  • David Chang: Thanks. Good morning everyone. Very strange. Google last week, San Francisco.

  • Google, New York. And I never thought, again, cooking would

  • lead me to both Google campuses. [laughter] Very strange. And yeah, I got into

  • cooking. And how I got here is very, very strange and

  • surreal. I started to cook, because I did very poorly

  • in college, because I spent most of my time with doing extracurricular activities, and

  • not enough time in the classroom, which is why Google would never, ever hire me. [laughter]

  • And it was a real struggle to figure out what I wanted to do after college, and cooking

  • was one of the few things that I knew I enjoyed. And it was one profession that my father

  • -- I could have chosen to be a garbage man, he would have been more pleased with the decision

  • I made. [laughter] Because he spent his entire life -- he immigrated

  • to this country, and he spent his entire life working 30 years in the restaurant industry

  • so I would never work in the restaurant industry. And it's ironic.

  • And you know, he sent me to the best schools he could and all that stuff -- and I still

  • wound up being a cook. And I wanted to see how far I could take it.

  • That was it. It was one time -- I mean, I've had a lot

  • of discussions recently about like, Is there anything pure?

  • Is there anything honest in terms of a craft anymore?

  • And, at that time, it was like '99. You know, it was either dot com or banking

  • or whatnot. And I just felt that cooking was one of the

  • few things that I thought was honest -- that you could apply yourself, and you could get

  • better every day. And it was remarkable, because you could use

  • your hands. You could sort of act like a total buffoon,

  • but still -- there's this total chaos -- but it's under this umbrella of this sort

  • of French system of a brigade. And I don't know.

  • I felt like I found my call and that I could do this.

  • And then, you know, I was never the best cook in the kitchen.

  • I worked for some great chefs -- for Jean George, Tom Colicchio, Daniel Bleu, Das Caramelini.

  • And spent some time in Tokyo. But I got out of the game.

  • And I say the "game" -- I say "fine dining game" -- because we normally associate great

  • food with fine dining. And when I started cooking -- and it wasn't.

  • I can't say it's 20 years. It was like ten years ago, you know, food.

  • You had the Food Network, but 'food' and 'cooking' wasn't cool.

  • Like, if any of you guys are thinking about career-changing and going into cooking school,

  • like think twice. [laughter] Because it's a hard, hard business. It's not

  • glamorous. And, you know, TV has made it seem much more

  • cooler than it actually is. So, you know, going back, I don't know if

  • I'd actually be cooking in this world -- that is like, today's like food world, because

  • it's just getting crazier and crazier. And I've had to, you know, learn to deal with

  • it. I got into cooking so I wouldn't have to speak

  • in front of people. [laughter] And here I am, speaking in front of all these

  • people, and I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about. [laughter]

  • So I've always sort of been a weirdly competitive person.

  • I think it has to do, again, with golf -- and this was before it was super-cool to

  • play golf. And I had the typical Asian father who was

  • like, trying to make me, you know, pro. And then, I realized that -- I'll never forget,

  • I was trying to qualify for this tournament, and I played -- all I did was play golf 365

  • days a year. I was trying to qualify for this tournament

  • in Houston, and I was eleven. Tiger Woods was already on the brochure of

  • the event. It was called the 'Big I' in Houston.

  • And he had already won it two years in a row. And that's when I knew -- I was like, "Yeah,

  • this guy's a lot better than I will ever be, so."

  • I think it slowly coincided with me just burning out on golf.

  • But, you know, there's something interesting between golf and cooking -- at least for me

  • -- because, when you're playing golf -- and I hate golf now -- is that, it's against

  • you. It's just you and the golf course.

  • And the only competition is the scoreboard and your competitors.

  • So, I am always measuring myself against people. I wish I had that sort of competitive drive,

  • you know, during school. That would have been great.

  • But, in cooking, you sort of see who is the best cook in the kitchen.

  • This guy's a sous chef, and he got there from this point and this point.

  • And, you know, I was very quick to realize that I was not naturally gifted as a cook,

  • which was one of the things I loved about cooking.

  • You don't have to be a super-star to become a good cook or a great chef.

  • You just have to apply yourself. You have to be fully committed.

  • And when I sort of learned that -- I was learning this, and I had the great mentors.

  • Craft was very, very important to me. Because, when Craft opened up, we had Jonathan

  • Benno, Mark Kinura, Octor Nuag, James Tracy. All these guys -- I mean people that will

  • never make it in the press. Like, I have a friend, Mac Kern.

  • He's a chef in Madrid in his own restaurant. Everyone that opened up that restaurant is

  • the chef at their own restaurant now, which is very rare.

  • And they all took me under their wing and beat the crap out of me.

  • And that's how you learn. And I learned quickly too that these guys

  • were better than me. So every kitchen I ever went to, I was always

  • comparing myself to the best talent in the kitchen.

  • And I would be like, "Well, there's no way I'm going to be better than this person."

  • It's a really weird way of looking at things. But I'd learn as much as I could.

  • And, you know, someone asked me -- I was like, "What should I talk about?

  • I have no idea." He said like, "What about opening up the restaurant

  • -- the first restaurant?" Well, I had just got back from Japan, I think.

  • Part of the reason I came back from Japan was, my mom was battling cancer.

  • And I was having a hard time working at Cafe Bleu, and working for Andrew Carmellini, who's

  • now the chef at Locanda Verde, and who is probably one of the best chefs in America

  • and supremely, supremely talented. I was also just -- working in that kitchen,

  • I was like, "There's no way I'm going to be as good as Andrew.

  • Why am I cooking in fine dining? Why am I on the Upper East Side cooking for,

  • you know, the audience that I could care less about?"

  • I care about the food, so I want to have the challenge of fine dining.

  • I want to have the pressure of fine dining. But why does this have to be in the environment

  • of fine dining? Something I didn't really put together till,

  • just about now, so. I left, and all these things started to happen,

  • right? Friends that passed away.

  • I was just in this weird spot, where I was just like, "I should be working at a new restaurant."

  • And 2004 was one of the greatest years in New York City culinary history.

  • You had Per Se open up, Mas opened up. Little bit later, you had Crew and Blue Hill

  • Stone Barns. All tremendous restaurants. Hearth opened

  • up. So it was a strange time for someone like

  • myself, who had been cooking four-and-a-half -- almost five -- years to be like, "Yeah,

  • I'm going to open up a Noodle Bar." And everybody knew that I was crazy about

  • noodles. And I wanted to make ramen, you know.

  • I had a plan to go to Tokyo and learn how to make ramen.

  • But instead, I learned how to make all sorts of different things.

  • And that plan sort of fell flat on its face, but it was a blessing in disguise.

  • So the reason I opened up the noodle bar was, I just needed to prove to myself that I could

  • do -- I could open up a restaurant. At the time, I was just like -- it was a challenge.

  • It was something that I could sort of -- if I could open up a 600 square foot spot

  • on First Avenue on almost no budget, like $130,000 -- that was my only goal.

  • The reason there is no -- there's a minimalist, and everything is plywood is not because we

  • were trying to be artistic. We had no money. [laughter]

  • And there was other reasons why. It was about a test to myself.

  • And that was the first and only goal I ever had for Momofuku, which is again why I pinch

  • myself every day for everything that's ever happened.

  • Which is why I'm so hard on myself and our crew, because I feel very blessed to be in

  • the position that we're in. So that restaurant opened up, and we failed.

  • And we continue to fail. And those are two of the things that became

  • cornerstones of our restaurant -- at least sort of our mantra.

  • It's like, "You know, if you're going to mess up, mess up big. Or just fuck up, but own

  • up to it." And number two was, you know, be accountable

  • for your actions. No excuses, because no one's going to care.

  • No one cares if we're going to go out of business. So, you know, there were a lot of things going

  • on, and we were going to go out of business after six months/seven months.

  • So again, right place, right time. We're learning how to run a business.

  • I had a terrible business plan. I didn't know how to run a business.

  • I didn't know how to run the cash register. You know, the only one person that wanted

  • to work with me was Joaquin Baca, because all my friends at the time were working at

  • these restaurants that were opening up. So I felt very slighted.

  • And things started to change. One thing happened, and awards started happening.

  • We became busier and busier. And the food really took a change right around

  • springtime when the market came around, the green market.

  • And I think it tied in with the size of the space, which is what I'm trying to get back

  • into the mode of thinking and how we do things at the restaurant, creatively speaking.

  • And again, it's been a progression of accidents. And this is an accident.

  • I didn't plan to have this sort of philosophy of how we create something.

  • But the first noodle bar, which is now Ko. And even Ko has its limitations.

  • It's 600 square feet. It's the size of a one-car garage.

  • Nobody in their right mind would open up a restaurant in 600 square feet.

  • I don't know what the hell I was thinking. But that's one of the beautiful things when

  • you're young and dumb. You don't know.

  • And I told myself, "Well, if I go out of business, I have the rest of my life to get out of bankruptcy.

  • I don't have a kid to feed. I don't have a wife to take care of.

  • You know, let's go all in. Fuck it." So that's how -- we always get to this point

  • of like -- our backs are against the wall. And that's when sort of the adrenaline starts

  • pumping, and we start to make very bold, bold decisions.

  • It becomes more difficult when you become a larger organization.

  • But, you know, Noodle Bar 600 square feet originally very limited in menu, about five

  • food items, mise en place, our "mise en place" in French means like basically the stuff you

  • prep out in a kitchen. It wasn't more than ten or 12 items.

  • So it'd be like scallions, bamboo shoots, pork shoulder, pork butt.

  • And when you only have so many ingredients, like five things to work with, after a while,

  • you just look at the same ingredients day after day, and you're just like, you're not

  • really thinking. And then, all of a sudden, things started

  • to click. It'd be like, "Oh, what if we batted."

  • We just -- it was almost like a Rubix Cube. If we just change this with this, then we

  • have a new dish. Then, we kept on evolving every day, changing

  • and changing. And then, we created a foundation in terms

  • of what we wanted as a flavor profile. Then, the green market happened.

  • And then, asparagus and ram started coming into the restaurant, which are the first signs

  • of spring. Rams are such a cliche in New York, but you

  • know what? Every spring, I get excited, because it's

  • the first thing, and they're so damn tasty. And it's the one thing that we have over the

  • West Coast. We have rams.

  • And, you know, so that added a new variable and food started to change and you become

  • very, very -- we were forced to be creative, because we had no other option.

  • Necessity is the mother of all invention they say.

  • And you really feel it when your accountant is like, "You're going to go out of business

  • in a month, unless you change certain things." And you don't want to let people down.

  • And for like, the first six months, I remember reporters or whoever -- journalists -- would

  • ask me like where I worked before. I wouldn't tell them, because I didn't want

  • to embarrass the people that I work for. I didn't want to embarrass Mark Kinura, I

  • didn't want to embarrass Tom Colicchio. I didn't want to embarrass Jonathan Benno.

  • So I just told them, "Please don't mention where I worked."

  • And then, all of a sudden, it just became a life of its own.

  • And that's how Noodle Bar started. Nobody wanted to work with us.

  • And then, that really defined and paved the way and, you know, created the foundation

  • for how we did things in the future -- which is basically, make mistakes, grow organically.

  • You know? I say to the new Noodle Bar now -- I always

  • tell them, "If we serve fish and chips." Or like recently, I think we just served tamales

  • last night. And if we serve -- say, we become a tamale

  • restaurant, and that's all we serve. And it's two years.

  • I'll be very happy, because it means that we took this weird, organic twist and turn

  • and, How come Momofuku Noodle Bar's only serving tamales?

  • 'Cause it's weird, right? [laughter] But I would be very excited, because that

  • means everybody was involved in this process, and then, it evolved every day.

  • We didn't have this sort of game plan that, "You had to do this. You had to do that."

  • We didn't have a mission statement, you know? So that's been very difficult to sort of keep

  • this creative process of limiting your colors. And I found that, a lot of the chefs that

  • I admire around the world -- probably number one right now is this guy Rene Redzepi _______

  • Copenhagen. He's worked at El Vie.

  • He's worked at French Laundry. He's incredibly young, you know?

  • His restaurants rank third in the world -- from restaurant to restaurant magazine --

  • and it deserves to be so. So, if you're ever in Copenhagen, check out

  • Noma. It's really, really amazing.

  • But he's pretty much set off what he can cook with in terms of like, a hundred-kilometer

  • radius. And it's really interesting, because this

  • guy can cook anything he wants to. And it dawned on me how smart it was.

  • In the spring and summertime, he's preparing for the wintertime.

  • He has the ability to use -- to cook with, you know -- I could use a Crayola crayon box,

  • 128 or whatever they come in -- He's chosen to really just cook with five colors.

  • And it's really amazing to see somebody push the culinary envelope with the most basic

  • of things. And there's some real genius behind that.

  • And when you put a ceiling on yourself, I find that that's when our best dishes come

  • about. When -- you know, right now, we're opening

  • a place in Midtown. And a lot of times, when we are -- and this

  • is another example. The chef that's going to be there -- I'm not

  • going to be the chef. I'm now into delegating.

  • Tien Ho's going to be the executive chef. We've been experiencing problems, because

  • we took over the space. Because the kitchen in Midtown -- a place

  • called Ma Peche, which hopefully is going to open soon -- is huge.

  • It's enormous. I've never seen a kitchen this size.

  • I mean, our places are tiny. This place is -- we don't have.

  • We fight for storage -- this place, we can store stuff anywhere, and New York storage

  • is at a premium. It took a while -- and again, it happened

  • at Noodle Bar too. When we moved Noodle Bar, and when we went

  • to Ma Peche, we had a kitchen that had every toy possible.

  • And we just fucked it up, because we didn't know what to do.

  • We got lazy. You get lazy when you have all these perks,

  • when you have a full range. You have all these equipment that works.

  • When you have nothing, you're just a little bit hungrier than the person that has everything.

  • And that's something that has really influenced our cooking, and is probably one of the things

  • -- one of the sort of guiding principles in the restaurant that I'm trying to make

  • sure that everyone understands. Like the hungriest guy in the room -- the

  • guy with nothing to lose -- is the most dangerous person.

  • And that's the type of attitude we want. And you know, you don't have to be the best

  • cook in the world, but we want people with the high level of integrity that are willing

  • to just do whatever it takes. And it's much more difficult to find these

  • days. So, it's weird. You know, the creative process of cooking,

  • making dishes -- it's less about being in it and more about sort of being in the editing

  • role. Somebody told me this way back when.

  • And I was like, "I'm never going to get to that point."

  • And if I do get to that point, I wouldn't want to be that guy.

  • I'm that guy now. And you know, I want to get back into the

  • kitchen. I want to -- I keep on saying things like

  • that, but now, it's like a big organism. There was one person, and then there's two

  • people. Now, we have what -- over 300 employees.

  • So, I have to decide what's best for -- not just myself -- but for everyone.

  • Could I spend all my time in the kitchen just doing R and D?

  • Yes, I'd love to do that. Do I want to speak to the public all the time?

  • Not particularly. Do I want to do a book tour? Not really, but

  • if -- I'll do whatever it takes for the greater good of the restaurant.

  • And so, there are younger cooks out there. And that's one of the things we realized,

  • or I realized, "If someone's better at something, instead of trying to be well, very competitive

  • about it, I'm just going to be like, 'Well, you are better at it, maybe I can learn something,

  • run with it.'" And that's what we try to do at our restaurant

  • and stuff. So the book we wrote with Peter -- who is

  • running to get markers, or maybe he's back -- but Meehan was working in the New York

  • Times, and I had no idea that he -- well, that's another story, but.

  • We capture basically, from Day One of opening Noodle Bar 2004 to March 2008.

  • Regrettably, we don't have Milk Bar, because we just -- we needed to get the book into

  • the publisher. And Christina Tosi is going to work on her

  • own book, which is great. But it also documented -- like the menu at

  • Ko that's in the book is totally different now.

  • We're changing. We're constantly changing.

  • And that's what I sort of tell people at our restaurants that are making the menus, that

  • are cooking the food, you know, "People, we're over-hyped."

  • I mean, it's on every blog. I know it. I hate it.

  • I hate the fact that people come in expecting to have like, a really good meal.

  • [laughter] We want them to have a great meal, but that's

  • the challenge that is on us now. It's like, "Well, we have to live up to the

  • hype." And there's no better feeling than proving

  • someone wrong -- at least, for me it's. So when people enter our doors, whether it

  • be Noodle Bar, Ko, or Ssam Bar or Milk Bar being like, they want to come in hating this

  • place. I think we all know what this is like --

  • whether it's the football team, a band, an author, or whatever.

  • Something that gets hyped up so much where you're like -- it's almost like human nature

  • now. You just want to hate it.

  • It's our goal to make you feel wrong -- to make you feel that you leave the place being

  • like, "I'm glad I spent my money there. That was worth everything that people have

  • been talking about." And that's one of the things too.

  • So, out of that first restaurant came a lot of the core principles from how we run our

  • business today. And, you know, it was probably -- one of the

  • most important things is, I'm never happy with the status quo.

  • If you're just meeting expectations, you're failing.

  • And I want us to constantly be changing, which is why like, if Noodle Bar turned into a tamale

  • shop, I'd be very happy. That means we're tinkering every day -- we're

  • messing around with something. So yeah, it's been a crazy trip.

  • And the reason we wrote the book, quite honestly -- besides publishers asking us -- was, I

  • always have this fear that everything's going to fall apart; everything is going to end.

  • And I really thought, at that time we were writing the book, that we wouldn't be around

  • in a month or a year. Because there's so many variables; there's

  • so many things going on. And the economy was bad.

  • I was just like, "Well, this has been such a crazy ride, we might as well get talking

  • about this." So, that's why the book is written the way

  • it is. And I think Peter Meehan did a great job.

  • And we had an amazing photographer in Gabriele Stabile, which was impossible.

  • Imagine going to Clarkson Potter, a division of Random House known for doing Martha Stewart

  • cookbooks and Food Network cookbooks and retail them.

  • Yeah, they gave us a list of photographers they wanted to use, and we gave them our list.

  • Richard won, and he's never shot food before in his life, but he's a photo journalist that

  • had done stories of war, poverty, and famine. [Laughter] His portfolio wasn't necessarily

  • the thing that cookbook publishers go giddy about, but I think Gabriele did a great job

  • and it's a real testament to him and everyone in the entire crew, so.

  • If you like the book, it's because of the people that were behind it and the team effort.

  • I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the team that are cooking at the restaurants right

  • now. So I'm incredibly lucky to be here and to

  • be talking to you all. This is very, again -- surreal.

  • This whole thing is very surreal. So, enough of me rambling on.

  • I think we'll go to Q and A. Don't give me tough questions.

  • Your colleagues on the West Coast gave me tough, tough questions.

  • [laughter]

  • Q I have one for you. I was curious -- there was this point, you

  • said, when you were about to go out of business, right?

  • And you had a month of budget left, right? I'm curious like, What made the switch from

  • the the failure that you felt you had for six months and then, you know, the success

  • that kept you going after that? You know, in that month time, when you were

  • just about to fail, what was the switch? Was it just the constant, hard work you poured

  • into it in the six month? It was just kind of like a slow accumulation

  • to some sort of crescendo? Or was it, you think, a stroke of luck that

  • kept you going that month? Or was it some like, act of desperation you

  • managed to pull out of thin air that you said, when you were backed into the corner?

  • Like, what was that?

  • A We really pulled it on over our ass -- that's what I would say.

  • I think it's all of the above. It was the right timing -- right place, right

  • time. Our restaurant? Right place, right time.

  • When we opened up our stuff ten years ago, we wouldn't be here.

  • Yeah, it was all those things. It was an act of desperation, and it was the

  • right timing; it was the season. I think one of the big factors in that change

  • -- that happened for the better -- was, we started to learn how to run the business,

  • you know? I didn't have to ask questions about the cash

  • register. And we learned that like -- we were an all

  • cash business for the first six months. And then, we were like, "Wait a second. We

  • should take credit cards." [laughter] It's like, 'duh'. You know?

  • Little things that you don't think about. Because like, credit cards -- people are going

  • to spend more money, you know? For whatever reason, there's only a handful

  • of institutions that are all cash businesses and they do well at it.

  • Because people know beforehand, "I have to go into this restaurant with a huge wad of

  • cash" -- like Lugers -- "or I'm screwed." Nobody knew who the hell we were, and we expected

  • them to pay cash. So people would be like, "You don't take credit

  • cards?" So that was -- little things like that, so.

  • It would be like a hundred little things like that, that see?

  • We did not know how to run a business. I'm not joking.

  • And it was like, "Oh, yeah. We take credit cards."

  • And all of a sudden, booze sales went up, and people were buying more food.

  • And I was -- we weren't messing it up -- a drawer at the end of the night, because

  • everything was all computerized and nice. But, the dream of opening up that restaurant

  • was to keep it simple, like a Mom-and-Pop store.

  • In a Mom-and-Pop store, I guess you can do that.

  • But we were understaffed, and we finally -- and another reason why is, we started to

  • get help. People started to work for us.

  • We had a very high turn-over rate the first year, so.

  • >> [pause]

  • Q Hi. Thanks for coming. I live down the block from Ssam Bar and Milk

  • and Honey. So thanks for the extra five pounds. [laughter]

  • And noticed recently at Ssam Bar that there's been like, a lot more cocktails on the menu,

  • and they're really good. Is that an area that you guys are thinking

  • about expanding? Have you ever thought about going into the

  • bar business?

  • David Chang: Yeah, I think about going into the bar business all the time.

  • I think that's every -- if you talk to most cooks and you ask them like, "What do you

  • want to open up?" They'll tell you, "A pub" or "A bar" or "Sandwich

  • shop", something that's just like very easy. Not that it's easy -- that's the problem.

  • Nothing's easy. We had a liquor permit, and we got a hard

  • liquor license finally. And again, it just sort of happened.

  • My friend, Don Kim -- who worked at PDT -- was available, and we were like, "Let's go."

  • He's very talented, and I was just like -- we sort of create the, you know, "How big

  • the sandbox is." And you can do whatever it is, as long as

  • you don't play outside that sandbox. Then you won't get in trouble.

  • So, we have a cocktail program, and it's working. So yeah. Opening up a bar would be a lot of

  • fun. Bars make money. Restaurants don't.

  • Q Hi. I also live like, right across the street from Ssam Bar.

  • So thanks. It's delicious. Can you talk -- just for as long as you want

  • -- about how you make like, pork buns so good? [laughter]

  • How do you make the pork so soft, and fat taste good, and the bun part is in it?

  • It's just the whole thing.

  • David Chang: Well, one of the things -- we'll talk about pork.

  • And you know everyone's like, "Oh, you became this pork guy."

  • Well, no. We open a ramen shop and ramen is pork-based.

  • And it wasn't my intention to have all this pork.

  • But pork, for a lot of people, has traditionally been commodity raised, not pork, in confinement.

  • And you know, the other white meat. Pork's not supposed to be white meat.

  • It's not, at all. So, I liken it to drinking tang vs. freshly

  • squeezed orange juice -- that much of a difference. So if anything, if our pork buns are delicious,

  • it's because of the pork we're using. And all we're doing is cooking it very slowly

  • -- slow roast. And you know, you could put that same pork

  • in between some Wonder bread, and you'll have a tasty sandwich.

  • So I think a lot of it has to do with the product we're using.

  • >> [pause]

  • Q Hi. I too live in the neighborhood. I live between Noodle Bar and the Ssam.

  • So it's like wonderful choice. My question's about the huge awesome photo

  • of the band that you have. What's up with that?

  • It's like the first thing I noticed when I walked into the noodle bar.

  • Can you talk about that?

  • David Chang: Yeah, it's very large. At the noodle bar, we have this big photo

  • of the band from the -- it's on the inside cover of the big pink from the band -- they

  • used to tour Dillon. And if you're not familiar with them -- one

  • of my favorite bands of all time. And for whatever reason, I was like, "I love

  • that photo. I'm going to find a way to get that." And

  • yeah. I'm not concerned with the interior or anything

  • else or all these other things going on, but I was like, "We have to get this photo."

  • So if you notice, out of all these restaurants, we have a big John McEnroe at Ssam Bar.

  • Totally random. I do love John McEnroe. But besides that, it's just totally random,

  • and it's funny. I mean, you go to restaurants and you see

  • pictures, you know, that are totally everything random and then arbitrary too, like, "Great.

  • You have a picture of an apple on the wall. What the hell's that? You're in a restaurant.

  • Why not just put something random?" So that's why.

  • And the band, for me though, was much more of a team effort.

  • That was the first time we actually put something on the wall that had some type of significant

  • -- or symbolic meaning or metaphor. Because everyone in that band could play every

  • instrument, and they edited the process. Every every song got ripped part.

  • And that's what made them so very successful. And it took a long time working with Elliott

  • Landy, the photographer who's in Woodstock -- very, very long time -- took about a year

  • to get that photo right. So.

  • Q [inaudible]

  • David Chang: No, no, no. He didn't care about it.

  • Elliott Landy, he's a very successful photographer. He just -- he was more concerned about his

  • photo being -- making sure we weren't going to sully his reputation, so.

  • Q So I live in Brooklyn, no where near any of your restaurants, but I did check out the

  • Ko and I had --

  • David Chang: Glad you could get in.

  • Q Yes, I got in. And it was definitely a culinary adventure.

  • So right around like probably the seventh or eighth course, I wasn't sure I was going

  • to make it to however many there was, like 13 or something like that.

  • So what made you kind of go with that many courses and kind of the concept behind that?

  • David Chang: So Noodle Bar -- transformation. So Noodle Bar was 600 square feet.

  • We did 27 seats, and we would do 300 covers a day.

  • So that's like about turn and a half on an average day.

  • It just wore out. The only way -- we had the lease when we moved

  • into Noodle Bar, the only way we could keep this restaurant -- keep it as a restaurant

  • -- was to do fewer covers. And that number was 12.

  • So it allowed us to do multiple course tastings. So that's why we did dinners ten courses and

  • lunch, you know, was only one seating. So we could do 17 courses.

  • Which I think -- it's a lot, but if you go to a lot of these like, recently I had like

  • a seven-and-a-half course dinner and it was 47 courses.

  • And, you know, we can't do that. But we thought that 17 was about the right

  • number and ten was about the right number for dinner.

  • And it also has to do with the timing. Dinner, we have to turn the tables once.

  • So that's the reason why. It was a certain price point and we can't

  • just do three courses, so. Hopefully you had a good time.

  • Q Hi. I have two questions actually. One is, how much cooking do you actually still

  • do? And the second question is not for me.

  • I am not vegetarian. I never wish to be vegetarian, but I do have

  • friends who are. And we --

  • David Chang: I'm sorry.

  • Q No, it's really hard.

  • David Chang: I'm sorry, because it's a pain in the ass for friends organizing.

  • Q So this is the thing, right? When you talk about the Ssam dinner, it was

  • six meat-eaters. And the title of the e-mail I think was actually

  • "meat feast." We now have a meat club where we have picked

  • another restaurant to go to, to eat more meat. But -- not that I wish to exclude my vegetarian

  • friends -- but I was just interested to know what your thoughts on vegetarianism were.

  • And I know there are probably vegans and vegetarians like staring dagger eyes at me right now.

  • But also if you had any intention of having something else that was more vegetarian.

  • For me, I know that like, even Noodle Bar is not recommended for vegetarians.

  • It actually says that on some of the menus, which I think is kind of cute.

  • David Chang: What was the first part of the question you asked?

  • Q The first question was, How much cooking do you do?

  • And the second question was, How much do you hate vegetarians? [laughter]

  • David Chang: Right now, I'm not cooking that much.

  • And I don't like working behind the line at the restaurants that are all open.

  • I thought Ko would be the last project I would work on.

  • But it got a little too intimate, and I don't want to yell at the guests.

  • I've done that before when we first opened up, because I get a little too 'into' it.

  • And for health reasons too, I get a little too 'into' it.

  • My stress level gets a little too high. And, for many reasons, I'm spending less time

  • physically cooking, but hopefully that's going to be -- in a few months I'm going to be able

  • to channel that energy into a different way. But right now, I'm doing the book tour.

  • And you know, I keep my hands in the kitchen, but not as much.

  • In terms of the -- not as much as I'd like. That's a whole -- we could spend all day talking

  • about my problems with that. But in terms of vegetarians, I have nothing

  • against them. And the reason why we don't serve vegetarians

  • -- or have vegetarian friendly menus -- is because we're New York City.

  • There's thousands of restaurants. So, you don't go to a Sushi Yasuda, or Masa

  • and ask for a vegetarian menu. You don't go to Peter Lugers and ask for tempeh.

  • You don't go to, you know, I'm just, Why do we have to cater to everybody?

  • [laughter] Seriously. Like, Why do we have to cater to everybody?

  • I mean, it's not like we don't love vegetables. I love vegetables. I love cooking with vegetables.

  • But it just sort of became one of those things. Why do we have to create an extra menu?

  • That's sort of how it happened, and I have nothing against vegetarians and vegans.

  • I mean, a lot of my friends from college are vegetarians now.

  • And I just think it's ironic that, you know, they're not going to eat something on the

  • menu that's maybe local. I was at a wedding, and I got in a big fight

  • with all my friends -- with one of them. And it was a local lobster, it was local vegetables

  • and local everything. But, no, no -- all the protein was local,

  • but all the vegetables were from all around the universe.

  • But he wouldn't eat something that was caught within a hundred yards.

  • And he was like, "It's all about protecting the environment. Being green."

  • And all this stuff -- which I'm all for, but I'm like, "Dude, your entire plate is carrots

  • from Chile, asparagus from Peru, and I think you're doing more harm by not."

  • He's like, "Well, I don't want to hurt a centian thing."

  • But I was like, "Well, if you're not supporting your local farmers or your local -- just people

  • that are making food locally, I think that makes more sense."

  • So if you're going to be a vegetarian, eat what's within, you know, walking distance

  • or driving distance. So I could go -- again, that's a whole another

  • topic, sorry.

  • Q Hi, David. I'm a big fan of your food. I've not had a chance to try your Ko restaurant,

  • because the website appears to always be blocked off with reservations.

  • I was wondering if maybe there's another like, secret way to get a reservation?

  • [laughter] Or if there's a coupon book?

  • David Chang: I figured you guys could just crack into our computer system.

  • [laughter] Yeah. I'm surprised that it hasn't happened.

  • Really, it's not that complicated. [laughter] Whoever made it, it's not that complicated.

  • And no, there aren't any secrets. It's, you know, try later in the afternoon,

  • and try on Sundays and weekends and holidays. You know, it's 12 seats.

  • We're very lucky that we're still busy and people want to eat there, so.

  • Yeah, I try. It's totally ridiculous process. [laughter]

  • I was like, I have the patience of a five-year-old. There's no -- I was just like no.

  • I can't even do it, so.

  • Q Hi, I was really interested to hear you talk about the craft of making food, working

  • with your hands. And I've never cooked professionally, but

  • the two times I've cooked either a lot of food in a row or for a lot of people, it was

  • -- one time was for a group that was consistent. So we were making the food, but I think what

  • we created was really like the love of the continued experience and the repeat meals

  • with the same group. And the other was because we're putting as

  • much energy into the food, but I didn't feel like we were getting the same thing back,

  • because the people tasting -- or the people evaluating it -- kept changing.

  • So, for you, is it the craft of making meal or is it the craft of building a restaurant

  • or somewhere in between?

  • David Chang: It's all of the above, and it's also, you know, tasting, you know, making

  • something with your hands and like, taking the carrot and transforming a raw carrot into

  • like carrot paper. That's a lot of work, and that's something

  • -- you can see that -- that's one thing about cooking, where you can see the process from

  • 'raw' to 'finished' in one day. Or, if not one day, you had the pleasure of

  • say, making duck prosciutto or ham, for instance. I'll never forget like, when I made my first

  • prosciutto. Did it come out great? No.

  • But it was like nine months. And it was just like waiting, waiting, waiting.

  • And you break down the hog, and you do it. And that process is wonderful and beautiful.

  • That's sort of what I call 'craft,' so.

  • Q Thanks for coming. How do you -- one of the things you were talking

  • about was hunger and success and I guess, wondering how you guys reconcile success and

  • continued pursuit of success and growth -- more restaurants, cookbooks, etc -- with

  • trying to artificially or actually instill the hunger that is required to take all the

  • risks and do cool stuff, you know? I mean, I guess it's more -- it's not just

  • a lesson for cooking; it could be said of places like Google.

  • You know, how to raise a child, any of that stuff.

  • So I'm just kind of interested in your take on, "Now, you've made it, how do you keep

  • yourself and your folks honest?"

  • David Chang: Well, by never thinking that we've made it.

  • Don't believe that you ever made it. I'm weirdly paranoid like that.

  • If you start resting on your laurels, you're screwed basically.

  • Don't believe the hype. Don't believe anything. You have to be your harshest critic, and you

  • have to be constantly improving, so. It's very hard to do.

  • And telling you right now, I'm having a hard time trying to make sure that is happening.

  • And I think that's -- I guess that's something that every company has to struggle with, so

  • I'm figuring that out myself.

  • Q Thanks.

  • David Chang: Thanks.

  • Q Just another question about the reservation system [laughter] I've actually haven't had

  • any problems. I've been to Ko twice already. [laughter]

  • Anyways. I was just curious, What was the intent when

  • you decided to come up with your reservation system?

  • And do you actually think that it's worked out and done what you wanted it to do?

  • This is something you wanted to do again in the future with another restaurant?

  • David Chang: Well, we have -- we did it because it's 12 seats.

  • And we hire an employee to answer the phone. That's what? -- 35 minimum, $40,000 a year.

  • Why? For 12 seats. And then, it would just become sort of a club

  • for like, friends. And it would just be process.

  • I get bogged down at least 30 minutes of my day, "Hey Dave, can you get me a table?" You

  • know, these are friends that you have to do it.

  • And I wanted this place and the cooks and chefs that work there to be free from anything

  • other than just focusing on the food. And if they were free from the B.S. of trying

  • to get reservations for friends, then that was one big step that I could take off their

  • plate. One big pile of shit they didn't have to deal

  • with. And yeah, it's -- has it worked out perfectly?

  • No. But it's worked out in the sense that we wanted

  • to create a fair and equal place where anyone could eat.

  • It sucks when chefs come into town or friends come into town, and they can't plan -- of

  • course we want people to eat there, but it's 12 seats and we didn't.

  • I wanted it independent, because I also didn't want to get clobbered with like, "Hey, Dave,

  • can you get me a seat?" I'm like, "Sorry, man, I can't. It's independent

  • of me." So, people don't believe me, but that's just

  • the way it is. And yes, it sort of worked.

  • We've applied it to our Bo Ssam reservations, our fried chicken, and who knows what's going

  • to happen, so. That's again, it's one of the those things

  • that was sort of 'on a lark' and it just happened. And again, the primary reason was, "Why the

  • hell do we need one person answering the phone for 12 seats?

  • Can we find an easier way?" So that was how it came about.

  • Q Thanks.

  • Q Hi there. I also had a question about the reservation system.

  • No, really. I was wondering if you could talk a bit about your inspiration.

  • You cook some very unusual dishes, and I was wondering where you get inspired to make those?

  • David Chang: Usually in an altered state. [laughter]

  • No, a lot of the times, it's eating at another restaurant or just -- a lot of times just

  • messing around with food. That's what I was saying, it's hard to create

  • food when you're not physically touching it. I thought I could be, you know, theoretically

  • -- or just like messing around with food in my head, but for me, I've learned that

  • I have to be touching with food. I have to be the one making mistakes.

  • So, that's one of the reasons why it's been very difficult transition for me to not be

  • handling food and making recipes and stuff like that.

  • I need to work with food. I just can't think about food.

  • I can write about food. I can think about food, or I can do it, but

  • the glue that puts it all together is, for me, touching the food and working with food,

  • so. That's just my process.

  • Everyone has their own unique way. That's mine.

  • I have to take a shotgun approach at food and just see what sticks on the wall, so.

  • Q So I actually do have a question about the reservation system.

  • Is it actually true that your parents couldn't even get a reservation?

  • David Chang: Well, they had their chance to come with their friends and family.

  • They couldn't make it. [laughter] And I felt that -- and I still feel this way

  • very strongly that -- if I show favoritism, then it just undermines the reservation system

  • and it undermines what we're trying to do to all of our managers and the people that

  • work at our restaurants. I never want to be in a position where we

  • take from our employees. And I feel that, you know, just because we

  • set this reservation system, I want to keep my word and say like, "Yeah."

  • So they did have to wait a year. My sister wound up getting them a reservation.

  • Did I feel like a jerk? Yes. But again, it was the lesser of two evils

  • for me. It was like, "I would rather have them do

  • it the right way, than to go out and." Then, I'd have to do it for everybody, so.

  • That's why. So it is true. So I am a jerk. [laughter]

  • Q Just a question about your recommendations for other restaurants you love in the city.

  • Particularly cheap eats.

  • David Chang: I love -- it's a well-known fact, I love All Grand Schezwan Internationals.

  • You have one on 23rd and Nineth Avenue, I believe, and Chinatown.

  • Cheap eats, though, I usually stick to Chinese food, not that it's cheap, but I don't know.

  • If I had my choice, I'd really like us to have the Mission from San Francisco in New

  • York City somehow. That would be great cheap eats.

  • Q Great, thanks. Another idea?

  • David Chang: Yeah, working on it.

  • Q Last week, there was a massive Twitter that went around your, I guess, documentary on

  • like, vbs.tv?

  • David Chang: Yeah.

  • Q It was truly amazing, and I loved the cameo of Gary Vaynerchuk at the end of it.

  • Is that part of a bigger documentary that you're doing, or was it just this one little

  • clip?

  • David Chang: It was one random thing, yes. That's a one shot deal. And yes.

  • That basically documents the state of how drunk I am throughout the night, so. [laughter]

  • Q I hope somebody in Mountain View asks this, but when are you going to open up something in San Francisco?

  • David Chang: Probably not. Not that I don't want -- I love San Francisco.

  • [laughter] It's funny how things become these like, lightning-rod

  • things that like, that could be now on a blog or something and like I get, "Dave trashes

  • San Francisco again" blah blah blah. [laughter] Such bullshit.

  • I wouldn't do it, because I think that it's very difficult to operate a business in San

  • Francisco. I think it's wonderful that all restaurants

  • have to provide health insurance for their employees.

  • I think it's great. And I think it's great that, you know, it's

  • mandatory. What I don't think is great is that you have

  • to pay minimum wage to servers that are anywhere from 9.50 to 10.50 an hour.

  • They're bringing home, you know, on a 30-hour work week maybe sixty, seventy thousand dollars.

  • I think that's unfair to do that, but you know there's a lot of bureaucracy in San Francisco

  • that I find to be -- I just couldn't open up a restaurant -- in San Francisco proper.

  • I think it's -- there's just too much red tape and I would never.

  • That's probably the main reason why. So, and you know, I think they don't really

  • want New York chefs coming to San Francisco. They're very territorial.

  • Q [inaudible]

  • David Chang: [laughter] Well, I never say 'never', but right now, I don't see any plans.

  • But if you ever see me on Dancing with the Stars, then you'll probably see me in San

  • Francisco. [laughter] Which I hope will never happen.

  • >> I think we have time for one more question.

  • David Chang: Sure.

  • Q Talking about opening new restaurants, and obviously, the new restaurant coming in Midtown

  • soon -- Are you afraid that you're going to get to the point where you just have the Momofuku

  • name attached to something without really being able to get as involved?

  • Is that something that concerns you? Is it more of a collective more than just

  • about you, or? You know how do you see all that?

  • David Chang: It is something that I -- well, the question is like, how do I deal with the

  • Momofuku brand as we grow and my involvement with it.

  • And a lot of it is collective, you know. We're making people owners, and I want my

  • involvement to be less and less. And, as we grow, I can't be at every restaurant

  • cooking behind every stove. And you know, Marco Pierre White said it best.

  • That's why he called bullshit on it all. He's like, "I'm not."

  • He would rather quit as a chef and just be a restaurant owner, than say he's a chef at

  • like, five restaurants. And that's why at Midtown, I'm not saying

  • I'm the chef there. I'm not. Tien Ho is exactly the chef there. I'm just

  • his friend helping out. You know Tien should have had a restaurant

  • a few years ago. Now, he has his opportunity and he's got a

  • real deal and he's going to be the chef owner there, so.

  • That's how we're going to, I think, approach the future as a group.

  • It's not a singular effort, and it's only going to make our group stronger I think,

  • so. Thank you very much guys.

  • >> [Clapping]

>> Thanks so much for coming. I'm here to introduce David Chang, as you

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デビッド・チャン:「桃福」|Googleのシェフたち (David Chang: "Momofuku" | Chefs at Google)

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    Ethan Wu に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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