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  • CHLOE COMBI: Thank you very much for having me.

  • Yes, my name is Chloe Combi, and I'm

  • here today to talk to you about my book,

  • "Generation Z, Their Voices, Their Lives."

  • And to reiterate, it was a strange kind

  • of genesis, this book, because I'm not originally a writer.

  • I was a school teacher.

  • And I was a schoolteacher straight out of university,

  • and I taught in quite challenging

  • inner London schools.

  • And there, I started my own education charity

  • called Write Club, which got quite a lot of media attention.

  • And because of that, i started writing for newspapers,

  • sort of darkly humorous pieces about the realities of teaching

  • life.

  • And then from there, I started writing features

  • about, I guess, the grittier aspects of teen life,

  • so on grooming, and busing, and gangland

  • culture, and dog fighting.

  • And yes, those did get quite a lot of attention.

  • I think they were well timed as well.

  • And what became very clear was that there

  • was this real need for this window into teenage life.

  • So Generation Z was born.

  • And the concept, I suppose, was simple enough.

  • it was gonna take about 3 years to research and write it,

  • and I'd already kind of started.

  • And the aim was to interview 2,000 teenagers, which I hit.

  • So it's a big sample of teenagers.

  • And this isn't a book just about gritty teenagers.

  • It's from the most kind of normal teenage experience

  • to the most extreme, because you have to get the whole range.

  • And so I think it's a good insight

  • into who teenagers in the UK in the 21st century are.

  • So who are Generation Z?

  • Well, we're already talked a bit about this.

  • And actually, originally, and I wanted

  • to call this book Generation I. I

  • didn't want to call it Generation Z,

  • but we'll go back into that later.

  • And the small i, because I thought

  • the I for the narcissistic I, which

  • is a quality that this generation are accused

  • of a lot, the i, which obviously is

  • a sort of sly nod to Apple, which most teenagers are

  • completely enthralled with, I'm sure you know.

  • And obviously, i for information,

  • which is a real quality of everyday life

  • that we're all into.

  • But there was a fear that people would

  • assume that it was a book about technology,

  • and it's not at all, because I'm not a tech expert.

  • So many things.

  • So it became Generation Z.

  • And actually Generation Z was more of

  • understood as a sociological label than I realized.

  • Because we've all heard of Generation X.

  • That was a real thing, and there was books on Generation X.

  • But Generation Y, which I'm guessing most people in here

  • fall into, kind of fell through the cracks?

  • And they were sometimes called the millennial generation,

  • and sometimes called the post-baby boomer generation.

  • So on a very simple level, Generation Z

  • are the children of Generations Y and Generation X.

  • And some of them probably actually

  • have grandparents now who are Generation X, which

  • is a bit terrifying.

  • And for me, for my purposes, they were teenagers.

  • Everyone who I interviewed in this book

  • and who is in this book is between the ages of 13 to 19.

  • But for some people writing about Generation Z,

  • they widen that cohort a little bit,

  • and they're probably more 12 to 22 year-olds.

  • And currently there's a lot of scare pieces about how

  • the oldest of Generation Z are about to enter the workplace,

  • and ill-equipped they are, and how they can't talk properly,

  • and don't write properly, and they write in text speak,

  • and speak in text speak.

  • But for my purposes, they were teenagers.

  • On a much more complex level, they were as complex

  • as any big group of people.

  • They're as complicated, and as strange, and as multifaceted,

  • and as normal, and as likable, and a unlikable,

  • and as difficult to define as any other large group.

  • But there were themes, and they were coming up again,

  • and again, and again.

  • They became quite predictable, and they

  • formed the natural chapters of the book.

  • And not in any order, and I can't never

  • remember all of these, but they are sex, of course,

  • and body, of course, school, family, friendships

  • and relationships, crime, gender, class, race,

  • the future, and technology.

  • And technology particularly I wanted to focus on a bit,

  • obviously, considering this audience.

  • But also because it is interesting

  • for this generation, because this is the first generation--

  • this is the thing that differentiates this generation.

  • This is the first generation that have grown up

  • with the internet.

  • They've grown up with social media.

  • They've grown up with mobile phones,

  • and they've never known a world without those things.

  • The rest of it's probably can remember a world when

  • we didn't have those things, but this generation has never

  • known world without them, and it's massively

  • influenced who they are, and how they've evolved,

  • and how they think.

  • And on the way, I actually met a few kids,

  • several who spring to mind, and I'm

  • gonna read you a very short piece, who

  • didn't realize that the internet used to not exist.

  • And they actually thought I was pulling their leg,

  • and they had to go and google this fact, which obviously

  • in ironic in and of itself.

  • And I'm going to read you a very short piece from the book.

  • Now this is a trigger warning.

  • There's swearing.

  • And if you do end up reading this book,

  • there's lots of swearing, and there's

  • lots of quite grim stuff in it.

  • There's lots of really funny and happy stuff as well,

  • but there is swearing.

  • And I'm not going to give you the whole description,

  • but these are three boys, and basically

  • them describing their relationship every day

  • with technology.

  • And these three boys have never read a book,

  • except "Holes" by Louis Sachar, because they were made to,

  • and "Romeo and Juliette," because they

  • were made to at school.

  • And they figured that they probably

  • accrued individually, probably about $250 a week

  • online in some way, like gaming and so on.

  • And these are three different boys.

  • One's called Raj, one's called Abdi, and one's called Jouad,

  • Do you know what I found out the other day?

  • That the internet used to not exist.

  • I didn't know that, and my mind was all like, the fuck.

  • And this is the next one.

  • You're such a fool.

  • Of course it didn't used to exist.

  • Mobile phones used to not exist.

  • That's jokes, man.

  • Can you imagine no mobile phones?

  • How would you even talk to people?

  • With your mouth, you dickhead.

  • But no, man.

  • The world would be so shit without all the stuff we have.

  • The teachers are all negative about it

  • and say it's sucking our brains up, but that's bullshit.

  • I was gaming with this sick guy in Columbia the other day.

  • He told me the shit about Colombia

  • that I didn't know from geography lessons.

  • That's educational.

  • And he told me he gangbanged my mum and sisters as well.

  • But that's just gaming, isn't it?

  • You cuss each other to the max.

  • It's psychological banter, isn't it?

  • You want them to get all pissed off with you so that they lose.

  • And it goes on.

  • So that leads on to my next question, which

  • is do teenage boys and girls engage with and get treated

  • by the internet differently?

  • well, that piece obviously referenced gaming quite a lot.

  • And I'm not gonna go into gaming today, because I don't game,

  • and I don't really know enough about the logistics

  • and the politics of it to really go into in detail.

  • What I do know is that it's a real red button

  • topic at the moment, particularly

  • to do with gender, because there's

  • this whole thing about how it's a traditionally male thing,

  • and more and more girls want to game.

  • But thumbs up to teenage boys.

  • I will say that I met very few who seemed

  • to have a problem with that.

  • They were very inclusive about the idea.

  • And that seems to be more of an issue

  • that a few gray men seem to have a problem with,

  • and I'll let you make of that what you will.

  • Both genders are, as I'm sure you know,

  • hugely, hugely, hugely in social media.

  • But that relationship's evolving and changing really,

  • really quickly.

  • And I guess what you would describe

  • as the granddaddy of social media, which would be Facebook,

  • is in its death throes with teenagers.

  • They're completely out.

  • They leaving by the hundreds of thousands every day.

  • And for the reason, and I quote, it's

  • because there's too many old people on there.

  • Their parents and their grandparents are now on there,

  • and 16 year-olds don't want to hang out with their parents

  • and grandparents in real life, and they certainly

  • don't online.

  • I don't think teenagers ever really embraced

  • Twitter that much.

  • I think it's much more of a middle class adult thing.

  • I think that middle class adults love to go on Twitter

  • and either show off or get offended by things.

  • I think that kids like Twitter for stalking people,

  • but other than that, they don't really

  • talk about in any kind of passionate way.

  • The three things that they're really into,

  • the mainstream stuff, there's lots of underground stuff,

  • but the three big ones they're into at the moment

  • are Snapchat, Instagram, and YouTube.

  • Now YouTube I'm not gonna talk about too

  • much, because it almost deserves a talk unto itself.

  • Because the YouTubers are the teen-appointed new rock

  • stars and royalty.

  • They are huge, and these are completely teen-led trends.

  • Like, beyond the ages of 19, probably PewDiePie

  • means absolutely nothing to you, but they

  • are like these little gods to millions and millions

  • of teenagers.

  • And what's interesting is this is not industry or adult-led.

  • This is entirely teen-led, which goes

  • to show that they have quite a lot of autonomy and power

  • on the internet.

  • But the one I wanted to talk about today

  • was actually Instagram, because there I

  • think there is a really interesting gender

  • political paradigm that comes up.

  • Male vanity is a thing, and it's a growing thing,

  • and there's lots of issues about boys and their body image.

  • But if you look at the Instagram page

  • of the average teenage boy, it revolves

  • around stuff or action.

  • Stuff being cool, if they're a bit older,

  • cool cars, cool headphones, cool shades, school threads.

  • And or it revolves around action,

  • so like, on holiday surfing with their mates,

  • or on the side of a mountain with their hands

  • in the air at sunset.

  • Or if they're a bit younger, maybe

  • like looning around a classroom with their friends,

  • and making those kinds of signs.

  • Girls Instagram page revolve around the self.

  • And by the self, I mean the selfie self-- very stylized,

  • very sexualized, the duck face.

  • Now it's the fish face, which duck face is very 2015

  • and we're nearly 2016.

  • Lots and lots of pouting, and lots of focus on body,

  • in a very kind of sexualized way.

  • And when I was writing the book, the girls, lots of girls,

  • told me about selfie parties.

  • And selfie parties, ostensibly, I guess,

  • are like slumber parties.

  • Butt the whole idea is you get together, sit

  • around each other's houses, and rather than watch

  • a movie or talk about boys, you doll each other up,

  • take hundreds or thousands of selfies,

  • manipulate them, face tune them, although you

  • don't admit to that, and then put them on Instagram.

  • And there's a competitive element

  • as to who gets the most likes or the most comments.

  • And obviously, the holy grail of those comments come from boys.

  • And I think that that's pushing both genders

  • into roles I think a lot of them are really uncomfortable with.

  • Girls become the exhibitionists on trial,

  • and boys become the voyeurs and the judges.

  • And lots of them have said to me, I don't like this.

  • And what a shame in 2015, where most adults, probably

  • with the exception of like Donald Trump,

  • have decided that beauty pageants are really naff,

  • that teenagers are in this endless online beauty pageant.

  • And you can say, yeah, yeah, yeah, they don't have to do it.

  • But I think the teenagers, social media, and Instagram,

  • is kind of like the tree falling in the woods.

  • If they're not on it, they feel like they don't exist.

  • And what really interested me was

  • one of the undisputed queens of Instagram, Kylie Jenner, who

  • millions of them follow, and unless you've

  • lived under a rock, a happy rock, for the last five years,

  • you know that Kylie Jenner is the half-sister

  • of Kim Kardashian, who originally became famous,

  • ostensibly, because her mum put her sex tape on the internet.

  • Her mum did that.

  • And I Kylie Jenner has sort of become the next generation.

  • And it was her 18th a few weeks ago.

  • And there was wall-to-wall, endless, global, breathless

  • coverage of this-- what she wore,

  • what her mouth looked like, what was

  • on her feet, what was around her neck, what her boyfriend looked

  • like.

  • I mean, every possible thing.

  • On the very same day, a very different 18-year-old,

  • Nobel Peace Prize winner, Taliban-botherer,

  • and pretty awesome person, Malala Yousafzai,

  • opened a school for girls who hadn't been receiving

  • an education, and that received minimal coverage,

  • particularly in comparisons to Kylie Jenner's 18th birthday.

  • So you can see why teenage girls and teenage boys

  • are assimilating this message that it's not

  • how brave you are, or how clever you are,

  • or how innovative you are, all those things.

  • It's basically if you've got hot tits and ass.

  • And that's what we're reducing girls to via Instagram.

  • Which leads me to my next question.

  • I hope.

  • Is technology and social media turning all teenage

  • into bullies and victims?

  • Well, that's really a question, and 2014,

  • 35% of all 11 to 17 year-olds had

  • said that they'd been cyberbullied,

  • and I think that's growing.

  • That's doubled on last year, so I'd

  • be interested to see the figures for this year and next.

  • Now, I guess that's a question we could ask of all ourselves.

  • And I know you probably know better than anyone

  • that the big criticism of the internet

  • is how lawless and unregulated it is,

  • and how people do things that they

  • wouldn't do in ordinary life.

  • And this absolutely applies to teenagers.

  • The hot crucible that the internet already is,

  • when you add teenagers to that mix,

  • it becomes a nuclear reactor, because teenagers

  • are very vulnerable, but they're also

  • liable to do very stupid things.

  • If you go into any school in any part of the country,

  • no matter how good the school is,

  • and you say the word cyberbullying

  • to the head teacher or teacher, they

  • will make hair tearing motions.

  • Cyberbullying is an enormous problem.

  • In fact, it probably is the biggest past all our problem

  • currently in schools.

  • And the reason is very simple, that bullying has been

  • an age old problem in schools.

  • Hands up if you were ever bullied at school.

  • OK, what cyberbullying has done is taken bullying out

  • of the classroom, out of the playground,

  • out of the bus stop, and it has placed it in a 24 hour a day,

  • seven days a week, 365 days a year, potential.

  • Kids can be bullied at 2:00 in the morning

  • from their bedrooms.

  • Kids can be bullied whilst they're

  • on summer holiday with their parents.

  • And kids are really creative, and they're really mean.

  • I've seen fake Twitter pages being set up.

  • I've seen Facebook hate groups being set up.

  • I've seen them hack into each of these emails,

  • and put them online for other people to see.

  • And that's with my own eyes.

  • And if you wanted to ask what the wicked stepmother

  • of this kind of cyberbullying is, particularly

  • from the head teachers point of view, it would be and sexting.

  • Does anyone know what sexting is?

  • OK, just in case you don't, sexting

  • is a sexually explicit text with a nude or semi-nude photograph.

  • Now, as you can imagine, these are wildly popular with kids.

  • If you get a group of kids in a room,

  • probably from the age of 15 plus,

  • I'd say probably 75% of them have either sent a sext,

  • received a sext or been privy to a sext.

  • And this is a really, really, really huge problem,

  • because at any one time in a school,

  • you've potentially got live with the ability

  • to go viral pictures of underage kids floating around.

  • And I've seen and heard of actual-- if you think about it,

  • the ethics behind it, if a 14 year-old sends another 14

  • year-old a nude picture of themselves,

  • theoretically, they're in possession of child porn.

  • And the schools every week are having to bring police in,

  • and there's been arrests, and in all sorts, things

  • that won't make the press, because obviously

  • it's the kind of thing that they're not

  • going to be particularly transparent about.

  • I think this leads to the next thing.

  • This sexting thing is being fueled

  • hugely by another red button of the internet, which is,

  • is the internet turning all teenagers

  • into wannabe porn stars, pornographers, and sex mad?

  • Well, I would say to this, no, no, and no.

  • And the reason being is because teenagers, not

  • this generation, but all teenagers,

  • are already fairly sex mad.

  • A lot of porn watching, which is being done in huge amounts,

  • a lot of porn watching is because kids can.

  • It's because it's there.

  • And I don't believe that any teenager who found, say, a porn

  • mag in a bush in the '70s, '80s, or '90s was like, nah, dude.

  • I'm gonna wait till 2015 to look at this.

  • To be a teenager is to be curious

  • about sex and pornography.

  • But does that mean that I don't think that porn is a problem?

  • No, I don't.

  • And here's why.

  • If teenagers were watching the kind of porn films

  • that maybe they made in the '70s,

  • with big bushes and big moustaches,

  • like refrigerator operators, that would be one thing.

  • But they're not.

  • A huge commission study into pornography

  • that was made recently revealed that 80%,

  • and I'd say that's probably modest, 80% of pornography

  • now contains some extent of violence and sexual violence.

  • So kids are watching porn films with depicted rape,

  • depicted gang-rape, S&M, beatings, slapping around,

  • and all manner of sex acts.

  • And I've done a lot of writing on this,

  • so I've had to do my research.

  • And of course that is impacting on how they see each other

  • and how they see sex.

  • And I'm gonna go out on a limb here

  • and say yes, there are some teenage girls who

  • watch pornography, but the vast, vast majority

  • of teenage consumption of pornography

  • has been done by boys.

  • And I promise you they are somewhere between watching it

  • quite regularly to mainlining the stuff.

  • And it's having an impact.

  • It's manifesting behaviorally, certainly.

  • In this country, we have a problem with consent,

  • and not just with teenagers, but particularly with teenagers.

  • There is confusion over what no means,

  • when people can say no, what date rape means,

  • what rape means.

  • And I do believe that is being slightly led

  • by porn, because in porn, there is no such thing as no,

  • and there's very, very few boundaries.

  • And another very quick reading that I wanted to do for you

  • today, which was from a boy who I spoke to, I spoke to a lot

  • over the last couple of years, who's

  • actually being treated for I guess

  • you could say a porn addiction.

  • I remember the first time I saw porn.

  • I was probably about six.

  • I went to a primary school that was attached to a high school,

  • and there was always old kids most giving us shit.

  • But some were OK.

  • This bunch of lads were like, look at this.

  • Look at this.

  • And it was a porn film.

  • I don't know what it was exactly,

  • by I remember being really interested in it,

  • and knowing it was probably bad, but in a good way.

  • I'd say I was about nine, and a lot of the boys at school

  • were either interested in seeing porn,

  • or had been watching it a bit.

  • You'd have to be pretty clueless not to be aware of it.

  • I didn't get a mobile phone until I

  • was 11, when the obsession really started, because it

  • was so easy to access.

  • But I'd definitely seen a lot before then.

  • A lot of my mates have mobile phones,

  • and after football, we'd sometimes

  • watch a bit on John's phone, who had

  • this wicked phone with a really good screen even then.

  • We'd all cuss each other, saying you've got an erection,

  • you pervert.

  • And we would deny it, but it's porn.

  • What else is gonna happen?

  • So he was kind of exposed to porn at the age of nine.

  • And I don't think that's unusual at all.

  • In fact, I know it's not, because I've done a lot of work

  • in primary schools.

  • So a bit bleak, but before I move

  • on to the last couple of things, sex talk is rather 1997.

  • I think in education we need to perhaps bring

  • in a porn talk, and porn education,

  • and about how it doesn't replicate real life.

  • But with things like cyberbullying, and sexting,

  • and what happens, potentially, if you put a picture up online,

  • I think that maybe companies like this, and educators,

  • and politicians, perhaps need to get together and really

  • clarify the dangers and the pitfalls of the internet,

  • and put them there for everyone to see every time you

  • go online, because I think lots of kids

  • are really, really running into trouble.

  • I know lots of kids are really running into trouble,

  • because they do things on the internet without thinking,

  • without realizing.

  • So not a completely different topic,

  • but a slightly different topic, because I know Rob

  • was really curious about this one.

  • This is a country with a class obsession,

  • and it's a country with a class problem.

  • There are far too many kids who are falling through the cracks,

  • and neglected.

  • And I think with this particular government, that's increasing.

  • But that can almost have a technological slant

  • which I think almost pertains to you guys.

  • If you think about a middle class kid, or a middle class

  • and upwards, a kid who's reasonably privileged and well

  • looked after, they're gonna have lots of access to technology.

  • They almost always have a smartphone.

  • They might well have a laptop or a personal computer

  • in their bedroom.

  • They might have a tablet that was

  • given to them by the school, or given to them by their parents.

  • And they'll do things, all the things that we just discussed.

  • They'll watch films.

  • They'll watch movies.

  • They'll upload photographs, or chat to their friends,

  • and they'll do schoolwork.

  • Kids who come from much less privileged backgrounds,

  • I'd say if anything that their access to technology

  • and how they use it is more important to them.

  • Kids who don't have families and don't

  • have parents who keep tabs and look after them,

  • they form alternative family structures that

  • revolve around their peers.

  • And technology, and particularly mobile phone technology

  • is an absolutely essential and intrinsic part of that.

  • It's how, basically, they look after each other.

  • There is an endless where are you?

  • What you doing?

  • Are you safe?

  • Are the feds about?

  • Are there enemy foe around?

  • And so on.

  • And doing this book, writing this book,

  • I spent a lot of time with kids, what's called on road.

  • And I never used street parlance because I sound idiotic,

  • but on road, basically, is street parlance

  • for on the road.

  • And people assume that that means a child or a teenager

  • is in a gang that's affiliated to criminal activity.

  • And actually, it can mean that, but it doesn't necessarily.

  • It often just means that a kid is on the road,

  • because the road is more safe than the home

  • that they come from.

  • And that can be mostly for really upsetting reasons.

  • Bad step-parents, bad parents, drug abuse, prostitution,

  • getting knocked around, or just getting kicked out.

  • So there's countless kids on road,

  • whether they're full time or part time.

  • But to go back to the more organized gangs,

  • there's much, much, much scaremongering

  • about whether they're utilizing technology to organize crime,

  • and utilizing technology to threaten each other,

  • and using technology to recruit.

  • And the answer to that is, hell yes.

  • Absolutely they are.

  • They're using technology very, very, very cleverly,

  • and very smartly.

  • And it's very, very simple as to why.

  • 20 years ago, anyone on the street affiliated to crime

  • had to rely on what was going on and to understand

  • what was going on through word of mouth,

  • through face-to-face confrontation,

  • through graffiti, through the colors that they wore.

  • But now particularly with mobile phones and social media,

  • this internalized endless newspaper

  • as to street news, beefs.

  • But also any organized crime that you've heard of, probably

  • in the last 8 to 10 years, so if you think about the 2011 riots,

  • if you heard about that big thing

  • that kicked off in Walthamstow between two rival girl gangs

  • last week, organized gang-rapes, organized robberies, organized

  • movements against the police, or what they call the feds,

  • they absolutely will have had some element of technology

  • driving it, and probably quite a lot.

  • So it's definitely not just a middle class

  • concern, the internet.

  • So on a slightly more uplifting note,

  • will technology save the future for young people?

  • Loads of scaremongery articles, as I'm sure

  • you know from adults about how technology,

  • in particular the internet, is gonna

  • signal the end of civilization.

  • All newspapers will become Buzzfeed.

  • All television shows will be fronted

  • by AI versions of Davina McCall and Stephen Fry.

  • And all shops will be manned by robots.

  • Teenagers don't see technology like that at all.

  • They don't see it as the destruction of the future.

  • They see it as the creation of their future.

  • And they're very, very, very innovative,

  • and very creative on the internet.

  • They vie, and they vlog, they blog, they YouTube,

  • they create websites.

  • I do a Sunday show with a lad who's 17.

  • He started an internet radio show in his bedroom age 12.

  • Now age 17, he's sometimes pushing seven figures

  • of listeners, and he's courted by all these CEOs

  • and brands of the world.

  • And so that's just a good example.

  • But I think what the problem is there's

  • too much interface with institutions

  • that children, that teenagers, are caught up in that are too

  • wrapped up with the path.

  • And the best I can think of, to finish this off today,

  • is education.

  • And when I was teaching I lost count of the number of times

  • that I asked a kid to go read something from the book,

  • or read a book, and they would whinge and complain or not

  • do it.

  • And then as soon as you gave them a screen, and said

  • go and read this on a screen, whether it

  • was a laptop, or a computer, whatever,

  • they go away and happily do it.

  • And they wouldn't complain, and it would be

  • a completely different thing.

  • Hard, hard fact is we have a big reading

  • problem in this country, huge reading problem,

  • and it's gonna affect the future of our country.

  • There's too many kids and teenagers who are illiterate.

  • there are far too many who are below the level of literacy

  • that they should be, and I'd say probably 85%

  • if not more kids don't read enough, particularly

  • when you compare them to other countries and the kind

  • of reading levels that they're doing.

  • And I think if we don't do something about this,

  • we are heading for a problem, because there's

  • no way to sugarcoat it.

  • Reading is essential for academic and intellectual

  • development, both as an individual and as a country.

  • I think the remedy might be technology.

  • I think schools might be too beholden to this idea

  • that reading has to happen in an armchair in a corner

  • in a big tome of Dickens.

  • And they have to embrace that this is how kids want to read.

  • I did a lot of work for Wellington College

  • under Sir Anthony Seldon, who's a real educational progressive.

  • Six years ago, he got rid of 75% of the books in their library,

  • and replaced them with screens and instructive forms

  • of reading, and they went on to have unparalleled

  • academic success year-on-year.

  • Now, Wellington College is an incredibly wealthy institution,

  • and state schools don't have that kind

  • of equipment or money.

  • I'm a huge fan of the state system, but it is buckling.

  • It is buckling under a weight, and it's

  • heading for serious problems.

  • This is a government that is tearing apart the state

  • education system piece by piece, and it's

  • in desperate need of help.

  • Year-on-year, classroom sizes increase.

  • So you'll have in one classroom sometimes 35 kids.

  • And within that class size, you can have kids

  • with an ability range from serious learning difficulties

  • to genius.

  • So not every child in there is gonna

  • have the learning that they need.

  • Some kids really work well with one-on-one.

  • Some kids work really well in groups.

  • Some kids love rote learning.

  • Some kids love doing project learning.

  • So all the kids in the state system I spoke to pretty much

  • told me that the internet has become their primary source

  • of top-up learning, because they simply cannot facilitate this,

  • the kind of learning that every child needs.

  • And I think this needs to be embraced.

  • I think there needs to be a collaboration between perhaps

  • companies like this and all the many like them,

  • even though they're not as good, in education,

  • because I think the state system is in dire need of help.

  • So more online learning resources.

  • We're not reading enough.

  • Kids don't have access to books, so

  • what about a heavily promoted teen marketed

  • online library service?

  • A talk like this probably will primarily be watched by adults.

  • What about a teen channel, where you have something like,

  • how to write the perfect essay, what

  • the hell Hamlet's all about, the night before a GCSE maths exam?

  • What about an online live cramming session

  • with mathematician?

  • The night before an English one, an online cramming session

  • with a writer?

  • So many, many possibilities.

  • No pressure here, and this is the point I'm gonna finish on.

  • For teenagers in particular, the internet

  • is so much more than time and space.

  • It's where they learn, where they're entertained,

  • where they're looking for a guide to the future,

  • and maybe it needs to be filled with more spaces

  • to innovate, and to learn, and to inspire,

  • because companies like this have become

  • some of the most powerful in the world,

  • and all I would say is, with great power comes

  • great responsibility.

  • And I wanted to leave it with a final note

  • from Annabel, who's 15, who said that if I woke up one

  • day and found the internet and Google wasn't there,

  • I'd probably just straight up die.

  • So Thank you.

  • [APPLAUSE]

  • FEMALE SPEAKER: So we have 20 minutes for questions

  • and one microphone here.

  • Chloe, please repeat the question.

  • CHLOE COMBI: Yes.

  • Hello.

  • AUDIENCE: I know you said that you'd rather

  • have a whole session on YouTube, but it

  • would be really great to also understand, just

  • highlight what you think teens relationship is to YouTube.

  • CHLOE COMBI: To YouTube?

  • God, I mean, it would be better to get a teenager in here.

  • It's unbelievably passionate.

  • I mean, YouTube as I'm sure you know, YouTubers, they

  • have a particular slant, like they do wacky songs,

  • or advice on life, or makeup tutorials.

  • And that's what is it is, and kids just eat this up.

  • They [INAUDIBLE] and follow them in their millions.

  • And all I think it is, and again,

  • it reiterates the point I was making,

  • they see these people as like the cool brother and sister

  • they never had.

  • And I think that's just the relationship

  • they've developed with them.

  • But if you look at their subscribers on YouTube

  • and the amount of followers they have on Twitter and things

  • like that, it ranges between like, from 500,000

  • to 20 million.

  • It's extraordinary.

  • And actually, you probably will get them,

  • because the publishing industry has really caught on to this,

  • and everything in the Amazon top 100 at the moment

  • pretty much is books by YouTubers.

  • So it's this real cash cow.

  • But I'm not a teenager, and I have

  • talked to so many girls and boys about this,

  • and inevitably girls are [SHRIEKS] about these things,

  • perhaps more than boys are.

  • I think they are the next One Direction.

  • I think they're the new boy bands and boy [INAUDIBLE].

  • But also, I think it's because it is a big thing for males

  • and females.

  • So I think it is very much a sibling relationship,

  • and they have that very intimate feeling

  • like they were in a gang or a family if that makes sense.

  • FEMALE SPEAKER: We have a question in the back.

  • Sorry, we only have one microphone.

  • AUDIENCE: Hi, thanks so much for that.

  • I'm a mum with a one-year-old, and frankly, I

  • find it terrifying.

  • CHLOE COMBI: Sorry!

  • AUDIENCE: Really terrifying, but I

  • imagine you spoke to a broad selection of Generation Zers,

  • and their relationships with technology.

  • Were there any indicators of differentiators between those

  • who had healthy relationships with technology, where

  • it didn't impact on their ability

  • to socially effective person.

  • Could you share that?

  • CHLOE COMBI: Healthy relationships, I

  • think it's like anything.

  • I think I'm gonna sound really old here, but I'm not a parent.

  • I don't have children yet, but if and when I do,

  • I think what you really need to make clear are perhaps

  • two or three things.

  • The number one, I think that you need

  • to make absolutely clear that the internet is not

  • the real world, that everything on the internet to some extent

  • is airbrushed and commodified, and sold and packaged

  • in a particular way.

  • And I think a lot teenagers forget that,

  • and they buy into this Instagram fantasy.

  • So that communication to your kids

  • that the internet and whatever they're looking at isn't real.

  • And also that insistence.

  • And I know the kids, the teenagers who

  • I did speak to you who I know and felt

  • like they had really healthy relationships,

  • the ones that still exist outside the screen

  • still go out with their friends, go to the cinema, do stuff,

  • have this actually life outside of technology.

  • And I think the ones where I looked at them,

  • and I thought, this is a little bit toxic, unhealthy

  • where they're just completely living

  • in this internalized screen world

  • and they spend all their time online

  • and socialize online, and just have

  • no separation between technology and the real world.

  • And I think that's possibly what we're heading

  • for more, and more, and more.

  • People don't meat in bars anymore.

  • They meet on Tinder, and that's a really good example.

  • But I think that's gonna to be more and more extreme

  • as this generation goes on.

  • But just try and get them reading, and socializing,

  • and talking, and interacting in this time and space.

  • AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] it's a follow-up question, how

  • do you think we can do that?

  • How can we improve the situation [INAUDIBLE] life 10 years on,

  • not just the social aspect, but also the cyberbullying?

  • How do you think we can make a possible impact

  • and change their lives?

  • CHLOE COMBI: So do you mean their lives,

  • or the internet itself, or a bit of both?

  • AUDIENCE: A bit of both.

  • CHLOE COMBI: It's really hard, isn't it?

  • Because for lots of kids, how does go to the Scouts,

  • or be a girl guide, or go and be a champion swimmer,

  • or go and volunteer, or mow an old lady's lawn?f and I think

  • that it can be quite hard to sell reality when virtual

  • reality, to some kids, is so much more appealing.

  • But I think, again, we have to reiterate and reiterate

  • that there's no substitute for actual human contact,

  • and human emotion, and that say chatting to your mates online

  • is not the same, I think, as sitting by them,

  • and having them there, and so on.

  • To make things better, all I can say

  • is I just think it's information, information,

  • information.

  • And I think part of the big problem is,

  • and I briefly touched on that, I hope,

  • I think that there's just not enough

  • clarity about the laws and the rules,

  • and basically the ethics of the internet.

  • Not like this is what you have to do,

  • but this is what you should want to do.

  • And I think, really, if we've got any hope at all,

  • I think there needs to be much more collaboration

  • between the internet providers, and politicians,

  • and educators to actually come up

  • with internet happy packages, or something that sounds

  • a bit happy clappy, but something that is a bit more

  • universally understood about how you should behave online,

  • and probably maybe built into.

  • Go outside occasionally, see the world.

  • AUDIENCE: Thank you very much.

  • I wonder what you thought [INAUDIBLE] as these guys grow

  • up, like when they're in their 30s and 40s,

  • do you think that their actual values will be [INAUDIBLE].

  • How worried should we be about that?

  • CHLOE COMBI: The way we're heading, bearing in mind

  • that I think that a lot of this is easy to forget,

  • that a lot of this is in its real infancy.

  • And in terms of the internet, we're

  • all pretty much in nappies still.

  • There's a real newness to this world,

  • and I think we're making up the rules as we go along,

  • and realizing there's some things that need

  • to be improved or modified.

  • I think Twitter's a really good example of this.

  • It started as this social experiment that is just

  • going horribly, horribly wrong.

  • And I think it's turning people into assholes.

  • And people are very quickly saying this isn't good enough.

  • And I think if we ascribe those values and that particular kind

  • of model to kids, I think we are going

  • to learn how to manage the internet better, and manage

  • our relationship with it better, But it is a collaborative

  • If it continued on its current trajectory,

  • I think we are in trouble.

  • I think we need to make some really, really quick changes,

  • and very, very quickly.

  • So I think that's a brilliant question.

  • FEMALE SPEAKER: [INAUDIBLE].

  • AUDIENCE: You talked a lot about schools, institutions,

  • and businesses.

  • The parents haven't been [INAUDIBLE]

  • and I wonder is that because parents just

  • don't have a clue what their children are doing [INAUDIBLE].

  • CHLOE COMBI: Parents and technology,

  • that's a brilliant question, because I have written

  • a lot about this, about how kids are basically running circles

  • around their parents technologically.

  • And you get these really angry emails going, how dare you!

  • I'm a wiz on owned technology, and I know everything.

  • And I'm sure-- if any, how many of you guys have kids?

  • I'm sure not many of your kids would

  • be able to pull the wool over your eyes, and say no, Dad.

  • It's a school project on naked ladies!

  • But yes, yes, yes, yes.

  • I've got a four year-old and a six year-old nephew,

  • and they do seem to have this chip in their brain

  • that has this innate understanding.

  • Before he could even walk he was on the iPad.

  • And I just think there seems to be

  • something they're evolved with.

  • But yes, I think teenagers exist in a very,

  • very-- which is why Facebook has become so diminished

  • in its popularity-- they exist in this very private world

  • that they want to keep separate from their parents.

  • They have this very, very, very strong online identity

  • that, I think, is very, very confidential to them.

  • And yes, I do.

  • I think for the most part, if you read the book,

  • I mean, there's so may anecdotes of parents them getting

  • into all kinds of trouble There's

  • a girl who got groomed online, a horrible few horrible examples.

  • And the parents have absolutely no idea.

  • And I do think it's like all of us.

  • We're all quite secretive on the internet.

  • I mean, I don't think any of us would

  • be that happy if your mate was like let me look

  • at your history of browsing.

  • You'd be like, uh, must you?

  • And so if you think about kids, they're really, really

  • secretive online.

  • So I think there is a problem of this generational gap.

  • And I think it's probably narrowing.

  • So kids who are in their late teens and early 20s probably

  • have fairly clueless parents, and then obviously

  • as the parents get younger, that probably will narrow,

  • but right now, I think is a big thing.

  • Good question.

  • AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].

  • Some of what you talked about sounds really depressing.

  • CHLOE COMBI: I know.

  • I'm sorry.

  • AUDIENCE: Did the teenagers feel optimistic about life?

  • [INAUDIBLE]?

  • CHLOE COMBI: For these talks, I sometimes do

  • go for the jugular.

  • And there are loads of brilliant, and wonderful,

  • and amazing kids, and they're doing brilliant, and amazing,

  • wonderful things.

  • And I promise you, it isn't a bleak book.

  • But yes, the teenagers are cautiously

  • optimistic about the future.

  • I think that they see that there's many things in decline,

  • things like where 10 years ago, there was a tangible dream,

  • I'm gonna go and work for the Times,

  • or I'm gonna go and work for The Daily Mirror

  • and become a journalist.

  • I think that's a vanishing prospect,

  • and there's lots of career vanishing prospects,

  • and they're very, very well aware of this.

  • The other thing is, I do think they've

  • become much more realistic.

  • Five years ago, when I first started

  • writing about kids, when I very first started teaching,

  • and they all were like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

  • I'm gonna be famous.

  • What are you gonna famous for?

  • I'm just gonna be famous.

  • I'm either gonna be a famous singer, or a famous footballer,

  • or what have you.

  • And I think they've also realized

  • that that's a fairly unrealistic dream,

  • and they need to have a plan B.

  • It's very much down to the individual.

  • There's some kids who just see the world,

  • and just see things that they're gonna add to it, and create.

  • And there's some kids who see the world,

  • and just see what they wanna take.

  • And let's say fr the most part, they

  • more fall into the former category.

  • They're much more optimistic, and giving,

  • and want to do stuff for the world,

  • and contribute to the world.

  • But trouble is you hear-- and I'm sometimes

  • a bit guilty of that-- the kids who take too much stuff away.

  • AUDIENCE: Thank you for an interesting talk.

  • I totally get the point about how they view technology.

  • I volunteer at this school in north London, and some of them

  • ask me, how the hell can you work for Google, sir?

  • Because it's just a website.

  • CHLOE COMBI: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

  • AUDIENCE: So the question I want to ask

  • is, if a couple of the issues are, as you mentioned,

  • this idea that [INAUDIBLE] kind of curated online

  • and there's a lack of core social contexts,

  • there's texting, there's obviously

  • cyberbullying, et cetera, it's far less inhibitive,

  • because you can't empathize with a text message.

  • Do you think that the rise of services like Snapchat which

  • are more unfiltered and have the [INAUDIBLE] aspect

  • are a force for good when it comes to cultural [INAUDIBLE].

  • CHLOE COMBI: It's a really complicated one,

  • because I know completely what you're saying,

  • that the in the moment can give it more of that immediacy

  • that email completely lost, and I think even texting does,

  • particularly as it's backed up with pictures

  • and emoticons and stuff like that

  • which underline your point.

  • I do know what you mean, but at the same time,

  • I think that Snapchat is also another barrier, because it's

  • like when you watch-- we're all guilty of this--

  • but when you watch kids doing stuff, like, say having lunch,

  • they're all too busy Snapchatting

  • their lunch to chat.

  • I know what you mean.

  • I think it's evolving the way we do talk in that particular way,

  • and I think it is bringing it into that real time,

  • and giving that kind of immediacy and emotion.

  • But I think at the same time it's another step back

  • from that human interaction.

  • And I don't whether in 30 years time

  • whether we're just gonna have screens for faces

  • with emoticons coming up.

  • AUDIENCE: Facebook's working on it.

  • It's called Oculus.

  • CHLOE COMBI: There you go.

  • That's terrifying.

  • FEMALE SPEAKER: We have time for two more questions, one here

  • and one in the first row [INAUDIBLE].

  • AUDIENCE: Thank you so much.

  • I was looking up [INAUDIBLE] changing nature of crime

  • and real decline in what we might call [INAUDIBLE]

  • crimes or burglaries.

  • CHLOE COMBI: Absolutely, yeah.

  • AUDIENCE: And a massive rise in terms of cyber crime and child

  • sex abuse.

  • If you were with the Home Secretary right now,

  • what three things would you ask him

  • to do that would make a difference in terms

  • of that growth on child sex abuse and cyber crime?

  • CHLOE COMBI: Well, this is really interesting.

  • I actually just wrote an article about this specifically,

  • this whole thing about child sex crime.

  • And it's a big question, and this is terrifying.

  • But one of the things, when you go

  • into the serious criminal world-- no,

  • not even the serious criminal world, when

  • you go into the streets of London,

  • you talk to kids involved in criminal activity, one

  • of the things that's fast emerging

  • is that drug dealing, and gun running, and things like that

  • are high risk, but pimping and the skin trade

  • is not high risk for the pimps.

  • It's high risk for the girls.

  • So kids, younger boys, younger and younger men,

  • are getting more, and more, and more

  • into pimping younger, and younger, and younger.

  • And I think that that is massively

  • being fueled and encouraged by the internet,

  • and by this child trafficking and things

  • like that on the internet.

  • So I think that because you've got these police

  • units that are well in there with the drug awareness stuff.

  • They're well in there with the burglary stuff.

  • They're well in there with the riot stuff.

  • They need to get sex units on the streets,

  • and really, really quickly.

  • I was talking to 13 year-olds the other day,

  • and they all know girls who were being pulled into the sex

  • industry, and girls who aren't that much older, and so school

  • age girls.

  • And I know for a fact, I was talking the grooming of girls,

  • particularly in what would be considered high risk schools,

  • is very, very common.

  • I've written several about this, 17 year-old boys,

  • they might look at a 30 or 40 year-old man, and think weird.

  • So what they're doing is recruiting 17 year-old boys

  • to lure them in.

  • So it's become this hierarchy.

  • So that would be my number one thing-- so

  • education and bringing in these sex units.

  • And again, I wouldn't teach my grandmother to suck eggs,

  • and come in here and say I'm a cyber expert.

  • I'm not, but I'm guessing they really

  • need to get more into these cyber aspects of it.

  • Because it seems to be like fungus.

  • It just pops up everywhere on the internet,

  • and it's really awful.

  • Great question.

  • Though.

  • It's one to think about.

  • AUDIENCE: Thank you.

  • FEMALE SPEAKER: One more in the front [INAUDIBLE].

  • AUDIENCE: So teenagers are quite famously [INAUDIBLE]

  • and these are quite complicated issues,

  • and they might not be predisposed

  • to listen to their parents, the police, the government,

  • or teachers.

  • How do you think we should try and communicate

  • to teenagers on these issues?

  • How are you gonna get the message [INAUDIBLE]?

  • CHLOE COMBI: How are you gonna communicate?

  • I think that's a really good question,

  • and I think that I do know the answer to this one,

  • even though it's maybe not the complete one.

  • I think it's collaboration.

  • I think, again, this book is in their voices.

  • It's them talking.

  • I didn't say to them this is what I think you think.

  • I said to them, just tell me what you think.

  • And teenagers are so used to be being talked at and about

  • that no one ever sits and says, well, tell me.

  • Tell me, well, how did you feel when your mum died?

  • How did you feel when you got kicked out of school?

  • How did you feel when you got into Oxford?

  • And all these stories are in there,

  • and I think that's the thing.

  • It's communication and collaboration.

  • Rather than say, these are the teen problems,

  • you say, you tell me what teen problems are,

  • and let's sort this problem out togetherness, and let's try

  • and come up with some answers.

  • And I think that that's pertinent for what we're

  • doing on the internet, how we deal

  • with quite a lot of the internet problems,

  • and just generally how we're going to improve as a species.

  • That's a profound note to end on, wasn't it?

  • FEMALE SPEAKER: Please join me in thanking

  • Chloe for coming on.

  • CHLOE COMBI: Thank you.

  • [APPLAUSE]

CHLOE COMBI: Thank you very much for having me.

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クロエ・コンビ。"ジェネレーションZ」|Googleで講演 (Chloe Combi: "Generation Z" | Talks at Google)

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    richardwang に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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