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  • It would be nice to be objective in life,

    翻訳: Yuko Yoshida 校正: Riaki Poništ

  • in many ways.

    人生 客観的でいられたら いろんな意味で

  • The problem is that we have these color-tinted glasses


  • as we look at all kinds of situations.

    ただ厄介なことに 私たちは 何事も

  • For example, think about something as simple as beer.

    自らの色眼鏡を通して 見てしまいます

  • If I gave you a few beers to taste

    ビールみたいな 単純なものでさえそうです

  • and I asked you to rate them on intensity and bitterness,

    何種類か ビールを テイスティングして

  • different beers would occupy different space.

    「濃さ」や「苦味」で 評価をしたとしましょう

  • But what if we tried to be objective about it?

    ビールの評価は きれいに ばらけるはずです

  • In the case of beer, it would be very simple.

    これを客観的にしたら どうでしょう?

  • What if we did a blind taste?

    ビールの場合は とても簡単にできます

  • Well, if we did the same thing, you tasted the same beer,


  • now in the blind taste, things would look slightly different.

    同じようにして 同じビールを味わっても

  • Most of the beers will go into one place.

    目隠しをしていると ちょっと様相が変わってきます

  • You will basically not be able to distinguish them,

    ほとんどのビールが 同じ評価になり

  • and the exception, of course, will be Guinness.


  • (Laughter)

    もちろん ギネスは例外です

  • Similarly, we can think about physiology.


  • What happens when people expect something from their physiology?

    生理機能についても 同じように考えられます

  • For example, we sold people pain medications.

    人間の期待が生体機能に もたらす効果は何でしょう?

  • Some people, we told them the medications were expensive.

    例えば 鎮痛剤を売るのに

  • Some people, we told them it was cheap.


  • And the expensive pain medication worked better.


  • It relieved more pain from people,

    「高価な薬」のほうが よく効きました

  • because expectations do change our physiology.

    なぜ 痛みが より和らいだかというと

  • And of course, we all know that in sports,

    期待することで 生理的効果に 違いが生まれるからです

  • if you are a fan of a particular team,

    もちろん スポーツでも 主観が影響します

  • you can't help but see the game


  • develop from the perspective of your team.


  • So all of those are cases in which our preconceived notions

    ゲーム展開が 見られなくなりますよね

  • and our expectations color our world.

    これらに共通しているのは 私たちが目にする世界は

  • But what happened in more important questions?

    先入観や期待感で 色付けされてしまうということです

  • What happened with questions that had to do with social justice?

    これが もっと重い問題―

  • So we wanted to think about what is the blind tasting version

    社会正義に関わる問題だったら どうでしょう?

  • for thinking about inequality?

    私のチームが取り上げたのは 「不平等」に対する見方

  • So we started looking at inequality,

    これをブラインド・テイスティング形式で 検証しました

  • and we did some large-scale surveys

    具体的には 不平等に焦点を当て

  • around the U.S. and other countries.


  • So we asked two questions:


  • Do people know what kind of level of inequality we have?


  • And then, what level of inequality do we want to have?

    「現在 どれくらいの 不平等があると思うか?」

  • So let's think about the first question.

    「どれくらいの不平等が 望ましいか?」

  • Imagine I took all the people in the U.S.

    まず1つ目の質問について 考えてみましょう

  • and I sorted them from the poorest on the right


  • to the richest on the left,

    最も貧しい人から 最も豊かな人まで

  • and then I divided them into five buckets:


  • the poorest 20 percent, the next 20 percent,


  • the next, the next, and the richest 20 percent.

    最も貧しい20% そして次の20%

  • And then I asked you to tell me how much wealth do you think

    その次 その次 そして最富裕層の20%という具合にです

  • is concentrated in each of those buckets.

    そして 各グループに どれくらいの富が

  • So to make it simpler, imagine I ask you to tell me,

    集まっていると思うか 尋ねます

  • how much wealth do you think is concentrated

    シンプルに 質問をこうしましょう

  • in the bottom two buckets,


  • the bottom 40 percent?


  • Take a second. Think about it and have a number.


  • Usually we don't think.

    少し時間を取って 数字を出してみてください

  • Think for a second, have a real number in your mind.


  • You have it?

    ちょっと考えて 具体的な数字を用意してください

  • Okay, here's what lots of Americans tell us.


  • They think that the bottom 20 percent

    多くのアメリカ人の答えは こうです

  • has about 2.9 percent of the wealth,


  • the next group has 6.4,


  • so together it's slightly more than nine.


  • The next group, they say, has 12 percent,


  • 20 percent,


  • and the richest 20 percent, people think has 58 percent of the wealth.


  • You can see how this relates to what you thought.

    そして最富裕層20%には 58%の富があると考えていました

  • Now, what's reality?

    皆さんの答えと 比べてみてください

  • Reality is slightly different.

    さて 現実はどうでしょう?

  • The bottom 20 percent has 0.1 percent of the wealth.


  • The next 20 percent has 0.2 percent of the wealth.

    最下層20%の持てる富は 全体の0.1%

  • Together, it's 0.3.


  • The next group has 3.9,


  • 11.3,


  • and the richest group has 84-85 percent of the wealth.


  • So what we actually have and what we think we have

    最も豊かな層が 84〜85%の富を有します

  • are very different.

    現実と 私たちの認識には

  • What about what we want?


  • How do we even figure this out?

    では 私たちが望む姿は どうでしょう?

  • So to look at this,

    そもそも どうすれば 分かるでしょうか?

  • to look at what we really want,


  • we thought about the philosopher John Rawls.


  • If you remember John Rawls,

    哲学者 ジョン・ロールズのことを 思い起こしました

  • he had this notion of what's a just society.


  • He said a just society

    公正な社会について こう考えていました

  • is a society that if you knew everything about it,


  • you would be willing to enter it in a random place.

    その社会について すべてを知り尽くした上で

  • And it's a beautiful definition,

    どの立場であっても その一員になりたい社会であると

  • because if you're wealthy, you might want the wealthy


  • to have more money, the poor to have less.

    普通 裕福な人は 「富める者にはより多くの富を

  • If you're poor, you might want more equality.


  • But if you're going to go into that society

    貧しければ より平等を求めるものです

  • in every possible situation, and you don't know,

    でも ここで仮定している社会では

  • you have to consider all the aspects.

    あなたは どの立場になるか わかりませんから

  • It's a little bit like blind tasting in which you don't know

    あらゆる場面を 考えなければいけません

  • what the outcome will be when you make a decision,

    ブラインド・テイスティングに 少し似ています

  • and Rawls called this the "veil of ignorance."

    決断するときには 結果がどうなるか見えないからです

  • So, we took another group, a large group of Americans,

    ロールズはこれを 「無知のヴェール」と呼びました

  • and we asked them the question in the veil of ignorance.

    さて 私たちは 新たに アメリカ人をたくさん集め

  • What are the characteristics of a country that would make you want to join it,

    無知のヴェールの状態で 質問をしました

  • knowing that you could end randomly at any place?

    「これから ある国の一員になるとします どの立場になるかは分かりません

  • And here is what we got.


  • What did people want to give to the first group,

    こちらが その結果です

  • the bottom 20 percent?

    最初のグループ 最下層20%に

  • They wanted to give them about 10 percent of the wealth.

    どれくらいの富を 希望したでしょう?

  • The next group, 14 percent of the wealth,

    約10%の富の配分を 求めました

  • 21, 22 and 32.


  • Now, nobody in our sample wanted full equality.


  • Nobody thought that socialism is a fantastic idea in our sample.

    このときの被験者は 誰も完全な平等は望みませんでした

  • But what does it mean?

    誰も 社会主義がすばらしい とは思わなかったようです

  • It means that we have this knowledge gap


  • between what we have and what we think we have,


  • but we have at least as big a gap between what we think is right

    現実と認識の間には ギャップがありますが

  • to what we think we have.

    同じくらい大きなギャップが 私たちの考える理想と

  • Now, we can ask these questions, by the way, not just about wealth.


  • We can ask it about other things as well.

    ちなみに これらの質問は 富についてだけでなく

  • So for example, we asked people from different parts of the world

    ほかのことにも 当てはまります

  • about this question,

    私たちは 世界各地の人たちに

  • people who are liberals and conservatives,

    さきほどの質問を 投げかけましたが

  • and they gave us basically the same answer.


  • We asked rich and poor, they gave us the same answer,

    基本的に同じような答えが 返ってきました

  • men and women,


  • NPR listeners and Forbes readers.


  • We asked people in England, Australia, the U.S. --

    公共ラジオNPR愛好者 フォーブズ誌の読者も同様でした

  • very similar answers.

    イギリス、オーストラリア アメリカでも

  • We even asked different departments of a university.


  • We went to Harvard and we checked almost every department,

    大学のいろんな学部でも 聞いてみました

  • and in fact, from Harvard Business School,

    ハーバード大学の ほぼ全学部を訪ねました

  • where a few people wanted the wealthy to have more and the rich to have less,


  • the similarity was astonishing.

    事実 富裕層をより豊かに 貧しい人はより貧しくという人は少数で

  • I know some of you went to Harvard Business School.


  • We also asked this question about something else.

    ハーバード・ビジネス・スクール出身の方も おられますよね

  • We asked, what about the ratio of CEO pay to unskilled workers?

    他のことについても 同じ質問をしてみました

  • So you can see what people think is the ratio,

    社長の給料に対して 非熟練労働者の給料はどれくらいか

  • and then we can ask the question, what do they think should be the ratio?


  • And then we can ask, what is reality?

    では どれくらいの割合が ふさわしいと考えるか

  • What is reality? And you could say, well, it's not that bad, right?


  • The red and the yellow are not that different.

    現実はどうかというと それほど悪くはないでしょう?

  • But the fact is, it's because I didn't draw them on the same scale.

    赤と黄色の面積は それほど違いませんね

  • It's hard to see, there's yellow and blue in there.

    でも実は これは同じ尺度で 描いていないんです

  • So what about other outcomes of wealth?

    実際は黄、青色の部分は 見えないくらい小さいんです

  • Wealth is not just about wealth.

    では 富がもたらす 他の影響はどうでしょう?

  • We asked, what about things like health?

    富は 財産だけの話ではないのです

  • What about availability of prescription medication?

    こんなことも聞きました― 健康は?

  • What about life expectancy?


  • What about life expectancy of infants?


  • How do we want this to be distributed?


  • What about education for young people?

    これらに対して 望ましいと思う配分とは?

  • And for older people?


  • And across all of those things, what we learned was that people


  • don't like inequality of wealth,

    わかったのは これら すべてに共通する結果ですが

  • but there's other things where inequality, which is an outcome of wealth,

    誰も富の不平等を 好まないということです

  • is even more aversive to them:

    富の産物である不平等ですが 人々がさらに嫌がる不平等は

  • for example, inequality in health or education.


  • We also learned that people are particularly open

    例えば 健康や教育の不平等です

  • to changes in equality when it comes to people

    さらに 行為主体者性の低い人

  • who have less agency --

    つまり 小さな子供や

  • basically, young kids and babies,

    赤ちゃんに起こる 不平等の是正については

  • because we don't think of them as responsible for their situation.

    人は特に賛同しやすいことも 分かりました

  • So what are some lessons from this?

    子供には自らの置かれた状況に 責任がないと考えるからです

  • We have two gaps:

    さて ここから 何が学べるでしょうか?

  • We have a knowledge gap and we have a desirability gap


  • And the knowledge gap is something that we think about,

    「認識のギャップ」と 「期待のギャップ」があります

  • how do we educate people?

    認識のギャップについて 私たちが探っているのは

  • How do we get people to think differently about inequality


  • and the consequences of inequality in terms of health, education,

    不平等や 不平等がもたらすもの―

  • jealousy, crime rate, and so on?


  • Then we have the desirability gap.

    それらへの認識を どう改めさせるかです

  • How do we get people to think differently about what we really want?


  • You see, the Rawls definition, the Rawls way of looking at the world,

    自らが真に望むものへの考えを どう変えさせるかです

  • the blind tasting approach,

    ロールズの定義 ロールズ流の世界の見方

  • takes our selfish motivation out of the picture.


  • How do we implement that to a higher degree

    思考から 利己的な動機を 消し去ってくれます

  • on a more extensive scale?

    もっと大きなスケールで より高い次元で

  • And finally, we also have an action gap.

    それを実行するには どうすればよいでしょう?

  • How do we take these things and actually do something about it?


  • I think part of the answer is to think about people

    これらに対して 実際に どう行動するかです

  • like young kids and babies that don't have much agency,

    答えの一つとして あげられるのは

  • because people seem to be more willing to do this.

    自立していない小さな子どものことを 考えることです

  • To summarize, I would say, next time you go to buy, to drink beer or wine,

    そのほうが やりやすいからです

  • first of all, think about, what is it in your experience that is real,

    今度 皆さんが ビールやワインを飲みに行くとき

  • and what is it in your experience that is a placebo effect

    まずは考えてみてください 自らの経験のなかで 「現実」がどれで

  • coming from expectations?

    「期待から来るプラシーボ効果」 はどれなのか

  • And then think about what it also means for other decisions in your life,


  • and hopefully also for policy questions

    そしてそれが 人生における決断― 願わくば 私たち皆に影響する

  • that affect all of us.

    政策的問題において どんな意味を持つのか

  • Thanks a lot.


  • (Applause)


It would be nice to be objective in life,

翻訳: Yuko Yoshida 校正: Riaki Poništ


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A2 初級 日本語 TED 平等 ギャップ ビール 考え グループ

TED】ダン・アリリー。世界はいかに平等であってほしいか?You'd be surprised (How equal do we want the world to be? You'd be surprised|ダン・アリエリー) (【TED】Dan Ariely: How equal do we want the world to be? You'd be surprised (How equal do we want the world to be? You'd be surprised | Dan

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