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  • On the subject of small and big revolutions in the schools we call to the stage Ricardo Semler.

  • Ricardo is CEO and major stakeholder of SEMCO SA and director of FIESP (Industry Federation of São Paulo)

  • He has a bachalor degree in laws from USP (University of São Paulo) and a degree in Business from Harward

  • He is author of international best-sellers like Turning the tables (Mavericks)

  • and Seven Days Weekend.

  • in 1990 created the Ralston/Semler Foundation with the goal to research and

  • contribute to find solutions for innovation in the education of Brazil.

  • He is also the cretor of the Project Lumiar Sinapses. With the word, Ricardo Semler.

  • First I need to complain with Positivo because it's not fair to put me after Nicolélis.

  • I didn't invent anything, nothing will be walking around because of me

  • But...

  • when I think about our current moment in education

  • it reminds me the story of the guy that will

  • do skydive and they tell him that he only needs three things

  • first

  • to open that parachutes he should press the green button

  • if it doesn't open...

  • then press the red button

  • and when you land don't start to walk around because a Van will come to pick you up.

  • The man jumps, press the first button

  • nothing happens

  • he thinks, keep calm, keep calm, you have the second button. He press the second button

  • and nothing happens and then he thinks...

  • Now, I hope the Van is still waiting for me.

  • The feeling I have is that we came from the

  • greek education

  • approach,

  • with a tutor.

  • From the concept that

  • education is something for few people.

  • Then we passed through a moment

  • of middle age

  • where a lot was lost

  • and restarted again with the Iluminism

  • idea the you have to train the brain.

  • And education is basically about the brain.

  • And the brain is

  • naturally taken, like we heard here already,

  • to a perspective where you can measure,

  • and things you can understand and also

  • the market and employment...

  • and that we are trying to create people to power the current market and work force

  • but we don't understand the current market even less the future one.

  • And in a second moment, and what I think is the second button in the parachute

  • Henry Ford's idea that it's not doable. To educate everybody...

  • you have to create an assembly line.

  • The schools we have today are the result of that. Well, simplifying:

  • I have millions of kids I need to to prepare

  • for the market. How can I do that?

  • Let's see

  • They asked the University of Chicago,

  • in 1908,

  • also the same year

  • of the assembly line from Ford,

  • How can I dod that?

  • And the answer was...

  • What is the attention span of a kid?

  • Around 53 minutes was the answer, at that time.

  • How many kids I can put in the same room?

  • Considering the louder a

  • teacher can communicate and not stress himself toi much

  • and also keep the order

  • ...

  • around 35 kids

  • And how can I share the knowledge?

  • Don't know, ask the biologist, the mathematician, and everyone comes up with their plan

  • So, mr. biologist, what's the deal?

  • Hum, first we start with amoeba, and then that, and then the division, so on and so forth.

  • What about Math? First addition, then subtraction, some numbers here, sine and cosine... got it?

  • Then you think, well, I'm gonna create something called Curriculum.

  • I put everything side by side and I'm gonna create people who passed through everything

  • but is absolutely schizophrenic,

  • necessarily schizophrenic.

  • They passed through all that because the student takes a Trigonometry 2 class

  • then goes to history of Japan, to cell division, and then

  • he has to find a way to put everything together. It is absolutely impossible e nobody ever did that.

  • With time, the University of Chicago started to measure that

  • And concluded that the american curriculum (with 1552 pages at the moment) detailing what

  • should be taught

  • in which year and age

  • and concluded that the retention of knowledge

  • of the students who went through that system

  • was 6.7%.

  • Which means you are

  • in a business that 92, 93% of failure

  • and that's what we do.

  • Then you think, who is going to find a better approach for us?

  • Maybe consultants could be a good idea

  • and academic researches,

  • And now we are talking about the Van,

  • that...

  • will never arrive.

  • Or the entrepreneur that comes from outside, no, everything is wrong.

  • let me explain to you: management

  • change the principal and the director

  • and recycle the teachers

  • Got it?

  • But that man who is teaching you

  • has also almost the same rate of failure. 91% of the companies doesn't last more than 20 years.

  • 91.1% of the companies...

  • The man who

  • learned

  • that 91% of what he does fail, is teaching someone with a

  • 93% rate of failure.

  • There is something wrong.

  • The notion of making marginal improvements

  • in a system

  • that is obsolete by definition, by design

  • is nuts

  • and we are doing that more and more

  • because we are getting

  • anxious

  • to realize that it is not working.

  • And I'm not talking about Brazil only.

  • There's no exception in the world.

  • There's no place in the world, not even in Finland, or any place

  • where people are completely happy with their education system.

  • But we are making it work

  • based on a rules somebody invented.

  • The OECD came up with the Pisa exam that tests Portuguese (or English) and Math

  • wait?!

  • But 4

  • of the 5th best places in the world accordingly to that, are dictatorships

  • Have you ever stopped to think about? That's what we are trying to mimic

  • The best placed in the Pisa exam

  • is the communist dictatorship of Shanghai.

  • The other is Korea, where the student spend 12 hours per day in class, including Saturdays and still have

  • home-work.

  • And we are saying that this is the formula to generate

  • happy people

  • No! That a formula to generate a lot of people that learn to memorize 12 hours a day

  • and then take a an exam of language and math and goes well.

  • Will that approach

  • generate people capable for the market on a new world? No way!

  • When you entered in this profession did you get in thinking I'm gonna learn

  • the rules

  • learn the right ways

  • and control those kids

  • or did you have an ideal?

  • That idea was lost long ago.

  • Your lost ideal

  • mixed with kids that don't want to be in class.

  • And people discuss why schools more and more looks like Febens (brazilian reformatory)

  • It's because the Febens improved. Am I wrong?

  • Febens doesn't have watchtowers anymore and other things.

  • And the schools have metal detectors and high walls

  • So it's getting closer.

  • The question is why we are doing that? Because they don't want

  • to be there.

  • If you let they will runway

  • so you can't allow that.

  • Now that the kids are here, we have them for 13 years at our availability

  • And what we'll do with them?

  • Well let's

  • give them all the curriculum for math, biology, history and etc.

  • And then we'll commit a

  • fraud that we all agreed to.

  • I'm gonna give an exam because the parents, the mayor, etc

  • are all asking if you are doing well.

  • I'm gonna give you an exam

  • of a content

  • that if it's compared with the internet, on average,

  • would be a tiny fraction of what is available on Google about the same subject

  • I'm gonna cover just that tiny fraction

  • and I teach you that way: I write, you copy, I write, you copy, I write, you copy...

  • and at the end I say

  • done, the exam will be just about these things because if I don't say

  • what's gonna be covered the grades would miserable.

  • So, I'm gonna make a deal with you, I tell you what I'm gonna cover

  • I'm ok with cheating and everything else that helps

  • and when it is a Prova Brazil (national exam to evaluate schools), I let the worst students get "sick",

  • strangely in the exam's day. Am I wrong? Just a coincidence.

  • And them when it's done

  • I plot a chart. I get the best and I put here

  • and the worst here

  • and, well, we are not so bad, we have 4.3 which matches the national average

  • And then you think... there must be something wrong!

  • How

  • on this format, the kids learn?

  • I have 5 little kids at home

  • and people used to tell me: you have to learn to learn.

  • When you have a kid

  • starting to walk

  • like 9 months

  • you think you are helping them to learn to walk

  • it is more or less

  • like this, come... come...

  • Do you walk like that?

  • But that's how you teach right?!

  • But maybe the come from factory ready to learn.

  • We, as adults, learning a second language, it is hard...

  • third language, horrible

  • but they learn a language while learning to speak

  • and you try to teach them: fa-fat-fa-ther

  • And then they: Fish! Am I wrong? Well...

  • There's something happening and we are failing to understand it

  • in the school world.

  • I even have an example

  • at home,

  • on how...

  • on how those kids think.

  • We had a problem at home, where Fernanda, my wife, was alway too anxious

  • to

  • travel or even to go to São Paulo because our girls are too young,

  • we have twins,

  • 2 years and half.

  • They understood we had nanys

  • and the nanys where there but sometimes

  • they had their day off.

  • But Fernanda, always very anxious.

  • And one day,

  • the girls talking, the twins,

  • and the mother was in São Paulo,

  • and of the girls asked:

  • Where is mom?

  • And Olívia replied:

  • well, of course, it's her day off,

  • right, Letícia?!

  • And after that we solved all anxiety problems of the mom

  • because is just had to explain that it was a day off and they said "Ah, ok, bye!".

  • I never had more problems

  • because they had understood that in that way.

  • So,

  • with format of current schools,

  • it is passing through a moment where we

  • are feeling the anxiety and pain

  • that the system doesn't work here,

  • o in the US,

  • or England,

  • or Japan.

  • And there is a feeling until your 18 years old that thing is a torture.

  • And we are practicing that toture if really low

  • levels of success

  • and we fooling ourselves saying: the only we can is to recycle a little bit, put

  • more computers, etc.

  • A study from

  • OECD

  • showed

  • that with a linear research of 11 year that

  • the usage of computers

  • in the school doesn't make a small difference.

  • It makes ZERO difference!

  • It made 0 difference in their study per 11 years.

  • And we are fooling ourselves to believe

  • that we need to revitalize,

  • modernize a method that completely obsolete

  • It is like adding a new

  • 'engine' in an Opala (old Brazilian car)

  • 77

  • and then we keep polishing it... polish it here and there

  • and it will look beautiful.

  • There is something wrong!

  • The current model,

  • that is

  • a model of parallel knowledge that somebody will try to put it together

  • for a world that doesn't need it for today even less to when the kids graduate.

  • That indicates that

  • we need to start from scratch.

  • After

  • more or less 25, 30 years

  • building a system,

  • a way to deal with our company,

  • where we said, look,

  • why not force people to come work

  • and dress in a certain way

  • and make them learn to ask where they will be in X years and etc...

  • Long story short,

  • we tried to change that for

  • almost 30 years,

  • an experience that said:

  • you are adults, for god sake,

  • I don't want to count your days of work

  • your hours

  • and I don't even want to discuss how much you should earn,

  • I give you all the data

  • what is the salary here, what is the salary in other companies

  • how much a person higher or lower than you earns

  • how much we can pay

  • how much the company earns.

  • We will remove the obstacles, that are the same obstacle of reformatories,

  • those are the ways we have

  • and the unions are forced to require

  • and the city and state are forced to obey and

  • the teacher needs to.. and etc

  • What is the rule?

  • Why is he that position and I'm not?

  • Why was she promoted? Why she earned a bonus?

  • This creates a huge immobilization

  • that even makes you

  • stay in a reasonable

  • comfort zone,

  • but a zone where, internally, you can't feel hapy and fulfilled thinking

  • that is what I thought

  • when I decided

  • to become a teacher.

  • After a lot of years of that, and let's say, with it solidified

  • it became clear to me

  • that we are spending a significant part of the time

  • getting people that obeyed to that system since their two,

  • three years old to

  • stay quiet, 53 minutes, now it is this class or that, and etc

  • You have no options, your forced to that...

  • and the people becoming

  • 17 years old

  • we ask them: Well, boy, what do you want for your life?

  • What do you want to be?

  • You look today,

  • Miguel probably participated in a conference like that in

  • California. I went to one,

  • where they say with 100% sure

  • that the kids

  • at the age of my children, have a life expectancy,

  • (in our social class)

  • of 110 years.

  • 110 is what they are sure about

  • and not that you become useless at 80.

  • It is a time distribution.

  • With that age expectation,

  • we could have a school system that says

  • at 17 you are capable to chose to be an engineer, study that for 5 years,

  • of engineering,

  • spend 25 years as an engineer,

  • go back,

  • study 7 years of medicine

  • spend 20 years as a doctor

  • go back 5 years

  • become an architect for 20 years and also retire for 10.

  • Are we preparing people for that?

  • No way!

  • We are asking: do you want medicine? Yes! Ok. Which area?

  • Which part of the body? Is it the finger?

  • Because tomorrow you have to be specialized and that's your little box.

  • You are the finger dude.

  • Now if you ask at the same thing...

  • well... I know for example

  • a boy that teaches biology to

  • 17 years old.

  • He is

  • passioned,

  • a master and loves what he does,

  • but he has a serious problem,

  • 38% of the students

  • who graduates with him

  • wants to be Biologists.

  • You saw this effect already,

  • if you put a 16 or 17 years old kid

  • with a passioned person they will become violinists. 42% will want to be violinists.

  • Or a mechanic, right?!

  • If you bring a passioned to and put kids in front of him

  • things happen.

  • So, what we created

  • a foundation, an institute

  • and then a school, because

  • we thought that all this generic talk

  • wasn't product and wouldn't help anyone.

  • We came-up with a team

  • first thinking, let's rethink the school from scratch

  • let's assume

  • that everything that was done served it needs but we need a new model

  • and let's forget everything,

  • let's just remember the accumulated knowledge of the man kind

  • and let's create a new system.

  • And we created the Lumiar school

  • The Lumiar is an attempt to do that.

  • To make sure we weren't

  • reinventing the well or make crazy things we put together

  • around 20 people that met twice a week

  • and that group included

  • Cristovam Buarque (Senator with focus in Education)

  • Paulo Renato (Education Minister)

  • and Paulo Freire (PHD in Pedagogy with focuns on critical thinking).

  • So, we had people from the education field, to make sure

  • people didn't think, entrepreneur,

  • they messing with schools.

  • We had pediatrics, psychologists and tried to create a new model.

  • We thought,

  • what if we forget

  • everything you know so far or all your accumulated

  • baggage

  • from the school world

  • how could it be

  • that new school from zero?

  • And we came-up with three main pillars.

  • One is the figure of the teacher.

  • The way it is today it is today

  • is obsolete.

  • You are asking a person that

  • joined the profession

  • because of idealism to do

  • a bunch of different things. Like you saw here, in the presentation of

  • Marcos Magalhães about the school diretor

  • everybody got confused already,

  • he as to deal with parents, with union, etc

  • the mayor... of course it is not possible

  • The 'teacher' is not so different.

  • The teacher has to know

  • about his discipline

  • he has to have passion for it

  • he has to understand

  • how ti correlates with other disciplines

  • he needs to know how to control 30 kids who doesn't want to be there

  • he has to have

  • to be firm

  • but at the same time kind

  • he has to be interested in career plan. Wait, stop! Calm down!

  • This one is one in a million

  • and with time,

  • he also have to deal

  • with the union, that is taking care of his rights

  • against a somebody that doesn't want that, against the city and etc

  • and there's the secretary that wants to change everything

  • That world,

  • that function, is not viable.

  • So, how do you handle that?

  • You basically divide it in two. We did that.

  • We got the inspiration

  • from the Greek

  • idea of the tutor.

  • The tutor was basically who would (usually a slave)

  • take the student

  • to many different places

  • like the academy, the gym and etc

  • So, the role of

  • current teacher

  • is the role that fits the initial

  • idealism of the career.

  • The tutor,

  • in our system

  • takes care

  • of the person,

  • the kid,

  • from the emotional

  • point of view

  • cultural

  • check their real interests

  • and tries

  • to map

  • their education

  • and out-source

  • the process

  • of learning to a passioned person specific to the discipline

  • Basically, the teacher we have today becomes this tutor.

  • We have a real experience with that,

  • with the tutor,

  • adopting, not really adopting...

  • but assuming a public school and operating it like that for many years

  • the teachers we had there became the tutors

  • and the second role, the other half, let's say,

  • is what we call the master

  • it is a person who requires

  • two characteristics

  • a person who is

  • passioned,

  • expert in something,

  • if it is his job or a hobby doesn't matter

  • he has to be passioned

  • and also

  • understand the subject really well

  • This person can come from the outside of the school

  • could be from the comunity

  • or parent and etc.

  • The idea

  • is that we can notice

  • that with the population getting older

  • we are not finding any good usage

  • neither for the unemployed young people

  • neither for the retired ones

  • and are still capable to contribute.

  • So, in this format

  • we are coming back to something almost anthropological.

  • The people that are retired, many times too soon, can come back

  • and for a short time,

  • because nobody is gonna be volunteer for too long,

  • for two months

  • or four months, they can come to the school

  • and share

  • their knowledge and expertise we already discarded

  • as a society. We already told them we don't care.

  • If you are 62, or 58 and retired

  • you have to go back home to watch in pijamas.

  • We are saying, no! There's a place for you

  • here.

  • If you look

  • the distribution of time

  • during your life

  • you can notice, that we spend on average

  • 19 a 23% of our time studying

  • specially people like us

  • then you spend another 35 to 40%

  • of the time working

  • and the rest of the time retired

  • If you plot a chart

  • you can see that time,

  • amount of time you have,

  • is like an "U".

  • Amount of money?

  • It's like a bell

  • And health?

  • Is like a decreasing line.

  • So yo conclude that

  • when you have money, you don't have time to use it

  • and finally when you have time you don't have money and health.

  • That's how we design our lives

  • We used to have an interesting program in our company called retire

  • a little bit.

  • It was a program that said:

  • I'm gonna sell your Wednesdays

  • back

  • and since I'm not buying just time, I'm also buying your talent,

  • that's gonna cost 10% of you salary.

  • So, if you work Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, on Wednesday you do

  • whatever

  • you would do when you retire.

  • So instead of you be a climber at 81

  • you can do that at 32 years old.

  • That is a solution for this problem. We would give them a coupon

  • that said "when you retire I buy one day of your week"

  • to not let you die

  • intellectually. You keep coming here for the rest of your life

  • to bring wisdom, because it took you so long to create it and build intuition

  • and you are ready we trow you away

  • because you don't want to work 10 hours a day anymore.

  • So, following this line

  • for two months you bring that master

  • and you have a crazy amount of people interested in to come to the school

  • to talk

  • about the passions.

  • The third

  • pillar is

  • is what we can the mosaic.

  • Which means,

  • anthropologically

  • we all have

  • an idea in our heads, as members of a tribe,

  • of what we want from those kids, when they complete 18, to do with their lives

  • The mosaic represents that.

  • What we need.

  • Is it important that they know who is Picasso?

  • Or understand what is modern art?

  • If I put a canvas in the floor and trow a bucket of ink on top can I call that mondern art?

  • Is it explained?

  • It isn't? Why?

  • Well, you decide that and you have a mosaic

  • that goes from 2 to 18 years old

  • and I need, to minimally, expose the kids to that

  • Minimally.

  • Minimally does not include sine and cosine. It doesn't!

  • Then I have a spare time. I'm not just gonna their time just

  • because they are available. I'm gonna empower thair capacity to deal with the world,

  • and learn to learn by themselves

  • The idea

  • that is operative today, and is completely obsolete,

  • is that we need to make them memorize

  • because that's where they store the knowledge

  • but, in the mean time, someone came-up with that thing called Google

  • and you need to store anything more

  • but the schools doesn't noticed that.

  • We are saying, you have to understand, and memorize, and memorize

  • and repeat... You don't need to memorize or repeat. In 15 seconds Google will tell you.

  • You have to learn to find the information.

  • Know how it works

  • And use it in your favor

  • But simple recall?!

  • ... know dates and places?! No!

  • Generically understand how we got here and what are the way and etc is a different thing.

  • So we start with a teaching way that says: the disciplines as we know

  • are discarded

  • but what we need to explain about each of them is kept

  • if it is really important to know

  • addition and what a prime number we put that in

  • the mosaic and we'll find a way to do that

  • while the kid is in the school. But we ask what they are interested in.

  • And for example

  • they said

  • in the last year in a certain moment

  • that they were interest in the World Cup.

  • We said, well let's have a class about the world cup. How long? 2 Months

  • of world cup classes

  • Then you think, well, in the world cup am I gonna talk about Soccer?

  • The only thing I think we haven't talked about it was soccer.

  • We've talked about cramp for example

  • How somebody that

  • exercise for 7 hours per day has cramps?

  • Or geometry...

  • If you change the fields' geometry

  • and use a triangle instead does it still work?

  • How many Watts I need to light the stadium?

  • Why it took 71 years between

  • the invention of the soccer

  • and the electricity to

  • somebody think about a night game?

  • Why the humanity is so slow?

  • Why the humanity takes so long to learn anything?

  • In the world cup you can discuss why most of the dutch players

  • are black

  • and if their wives, that is immigrant,

  • goes to a hospital will she be taken care of or not?

  • Why there

  • 98%

  • of the births natural and just 1.2% are caesarean and in Brazil 28% are caesarean?

  • Those are all questions about the World Cup.

  • I can talk about history and geography

  • we can make a blog to talk about Portuguese, no problem.

  • We are making one now

  • this month called "Amy's class"

  • Amy Winehouse's class.

  • They are interested about it.

  • The kids go to class to learn about Amy Winehouse. But the class asks

  • things like:

  • How much is her wage?

  • How much is the label percentage?

  • How much she makes per show?

  • Without math they can't learn anything like that.

  • And then you ask: And when you get there and find a body?

  • What is formaldehyde?

  • What is rigor-mortiz?

  • What is cirrhosis?

  • What happens when you drink a lot of alcohol? Why you have hangover?

  • The kids are all interested and that is Chemistry and Biology

  • It is easy to teach Chemistry and Biology

  • in an Amy Winehouse's class

  • And then I go and say that a 4 by 4 beat

  • What is a 12 by 8 beat?

  • What is Rock? Why a blues singer to

  • be really good

  • has to be black?

  • What happens if put silicon in the breast?

  • What happens with the silicon after 10 years?

  • Can you see? I have Chemistry and Biology enough to teach all but using Amy Winehouse.

  • So they chose and have an interesting class to attend

  • They chose

  • but you can pick wherever you want and we can handle.

  • From math, geography to history

  • no problem.

  • And the mosaic,

  • which is a digital system that controls everything, we keep track the students progress/decisions

  • and we know from 2 to 18 years old what

  • caught their interests

  • and when they

  • turn 16 or 17

  • we can say

  • don't worry about vocation

  • you told us already

  • hundreds of times what interests you

  • we know what is your vocation

  • take a look here everything you did. And there is where you use computer software

  • to answer

  • and indicate that you can only be this or that in your life.

  • You chose that since 3, 4, 7 or 8 years old

  • This is your talent right here.

  • The digital mosaic says,

  • you stepped on Gregor Mendel

  • but how?

  • As a geneticist? Peas? Alright.

  • But there's also a Mendel that

  • that is mathematician

  • there's another Mendel about the theory of games

  • of

  • Fibonacci

  • there's Mendel, really interesting about Math

  • There is another Mendel

  • really important for the industrial history.

  • Who puts all these Mendels together? Nobody.

  • The system does that for us.

  • And we make this connections and say:

  • If you were interested in Mendel here and Picasso there

  • but also like the lyrics of Amy Winehouse there's rap here

  • and rap is Hip-Hop and Hip-Hop is Carlos Drumond de Andrade. The things get easy.

  • But you have to design all these things and that's what we are trying to do.

  • And the last thing,

  • of course, in a process like, we want you to come here because you want

  • and you should

  • decide a few things about the school. For example

  • We have a circle where we say, your rules to live together? You decide it.

  • It is not gonna be so different than ours.

  • You can hit each others head? Yes, you can. For how long?

  • One week?! Next week they don't want that anymore.

  • So the kids make a circle

  • and once a week they solve the problems

  • coexistence rules, problems with class, and etc

  • between them. We facilitate that a little bit

  • but they make the decisions.

  • Some times the kid that is

  • making the accusation

  • is the defendant of the same crime in a couple weeks.

  • This learning process about citizenship guided by themselves is more than enough

  • And in the first hour of everyday

  • in the schools

  • We do something we call "Reading the world"

  • Which is really simple,

  • It is one hour where you open the newspaper

  • or the Internet and chose one thing there to learn about

  • and everybody start to learn together, some of them prefer to learn in separate but

  • everyone is using the Google

  • to teach, to learn what happened

  • in England

  • with the guy that rapped the house-keeper.

  • Why that happened?

  • Those are questions that kids with 4 years old start to think about.

  • So, in general

  • that's all I would like to tell you.

  • That there's different formats but the formats now

  • have to go through a process of

  • deconstruction

  • of the obstacles that we created and not through just

  • marginal improvements

  • The public school we are running had an average of 43 points

  • in the first Brazilian Exam (national exam)

  • six months after and one year after,

  • and we are talking about sons of really poor people in a rural school,

  • where the parents'

  • average salary is 100 dollars,

  • is 96,15%

  • and it kept 96% 97% 94%

  • in the Brazilian Exam (national exam)

  • Without ever have seen the content of the exam before

  • Without ever memorized anything for that specific exam

  • And without nobody get "sick"

  • This format

  • is just, let's say,

  • a suggestion

  • to you that certainly came with idealism and is still because of that

  • and it's been

  • eroded by the

  • difficulties of implementation and the delay

  • and complexities,

  • to learn that there's a way, and I think there is,

  • for us and for everyone here

  • maybe a better way to do that.

  • Thank you.

On the subject of small and big revolutions in the schools we call to the stage Ricardo Semler.

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A2 初級

教育を改善する方法についてのリカルド・セムラーの考え(英語字幕付き (Ricardo Semler ideas on how to improve education (with english subtitles))

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    Jerry Lin に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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