I would like to start today's episode by sharing a selection of some of the, let's say, more critical reviews the podcast has received over the past year. I tuned in to listen to the episode with Dr. Mary Frances O'Connor. Dr. O'Connor was brilliant, but Forrest, not so much. Out of his depth to the point that I felt secondhand embarrassment. Great interview with Gabor Maté. He is a gift to us all. I was a little nervous Forrest would talk too much, but he was pretty quiet on this one. All was going well, discussing abundance and scarcity mindset, until they turned against capitalism. What is this podcast if not a capitalist endeavor? I'm sick of being lectured by hypocrites. And then finally, I really enjoyed this one. This would be a lot better if Forrest relaxed a lot and stopped croaking into the back of his throat. He also laughs throatily and it makes him sound fake. Otherwise,

今日のエピソードは、過去1年間にこのポッドキャストに寄せられた、言ってみれば批判的な批評の一部を紹介することから始めたい。私はメアリー・フランシス・オコナー博士のエピソードを聴くためにチャンネルを合わせた。オコナー博士は素晴らしかったが、フォレストはそうでもなかった。彼の深みにはまっていて、私は二の足を踏んでしまった。ガボール・マテのインタビューは素晴らしかった。彼は私たちへの贈り物だ。フォレストがしゃべりすぎるのではないかと少し心配していたが、この件に関してはかなり静かだった。資本主義に反対するまでは、

I love Dr. Rick Hansen's wise and steady demeanor.

私はリック・ハンセン博士の賢明で安定した態度が大好きだ。

Now, criticism is an unavoidable part of life. Sometimes it's overt, like in these reviews, and sometimes it comes in more subtle forms, like advice giving or comparing ourselves negatively to other people. Sometimes we can take it with some good grace and are able to accept the useful parts of it without too much discomfort, like, you know, apparently

さて、批判は人生において避けられないものである。批評のようにあからさまなこともあれば、アドバイスや他人と自分を比較するような微妙な形で現れることもある。時には、それを潔く受け止め、有益な部分をあまり不快感なく受け入れることができる場合もある。

I should work with a vocal coach, and other times it really stings. And then, a lot of the time, most of the time, there's probably a little bit of both. But even though we're all going to be criticized from time to time, many of us spend a lot of our lives living in fear of criticism. Speaking personally, my behavior is totally influenced by wanting to avoid criticism. And then on the flip side, we're all critics ourselves. We've all been in situations that aren't quite the way that we want them to be, so we either need to do something to change them or accept them as they are. And that's what we're going to be focusing on today. On the one hand, how to take criticism well, receiving the useful parts without feeling a lot of the bonus pain. And then, on the other, learning to avoid chronic complaining and learning to accept things when they're not quite the way we'd like them to be. So to help us do that, I'm joined by the impeccable, not back-of-throat talking Dr. Rick Hansen. Rick is a clinical psychologist, he's a bestselling author, and he's also my dad. So, Dad, how are you doing today?

ヴォーカル・コーチと仕事をするべきだと思うこともあれば、本当に胸に刺さることもある。そして、多くの場合、ほとんどの場合、その両方が少しあるのだろう。でも、批判されることは誰にでもあることなのに、私たちの多くは批判を恐れて生きている。個人的なことを言えば、私の行動は完全に批判を避けたいという思いに影響されている。そして裏を返せば、私たちは皆、自分自身が批判者なのだ。私たちは皆、自分の思い通りにならない状況に置かれたことがあり、それを変えるために何かをするか、そのまま受け入れるかのどちらかだ。今日、私たちが注

Oh, man, I'm already stirred up on your behalf. Like, wait a minute here. I'm a walking demonstration right now of not necessarily good ways to react to criticism, just in that. But still, that said, if somebody were to say to you on the street, hey, your head is made of green cheese and you were to say, well, actually, no, it's not. Then they would say, well, you're being defensive. And then you might say, I'm not being defensive. I'm just saying my head's not made of green cheese. And then they would say, now you're being defensive about being defensive. So it can become kind of circular here, right?

おいおい、僕はもう君のために興奮しているんだよ。ちょっと待ってよ。私は今、批判に対する必ずしも良い反応方法ではないことの、まさに歩くデモンストレーションをしているんだ。とはいえ、もし街で誰かに「君の頭はグリーンチーズでできているね」と言われて、「いや、そんなことはないんだ」と答えたとする。そうしたら、君は保身に走っていると言われるだろう。そして、あなたはこう言うかもしれない。私の頭はグリーンチーズでできていないと言っているだけだ。そうすると、今度は守りに入っていると言われる。このように、ある種の堂々巡りに

Oh, totally. So what is the sweet spot where we receive the input? And I'm, myself, actually, on reflection, very aware in these podcast conversations with you of multiple things I either did poorly or could do better.

ああ、まったくだ。では、私たちがインプットを受け取るスイートスポットはどこなのでしょうか？私自身、このポッドキャストでの皆さんとの会話の中で、自分の至らなかった点、あるいはもっとうまくできるはずだった点をいくつも自覚しています。

Same. Totally. Every time. Yeah. And I would like to state for the record that the enormous and overwhelming majority of the reviews and comments we get on the podcast are positive.

同じだ。まったくだ。毎回。そうだね。そして、ポッドキャストに寄せられるレビューやコメントの膨大かつ圧倒的多数はポジティブなものであることを記録しておきたい。

And I had to kind of go out of my way to dive into the reviews to find those. And also,

それを見つけるために、わざわざレビューに飛び込まなければならなかった。そしてまた

I think it illustrates a really key point here that we're probably going to talk about a little bit more today, which is that so much of life is about what you choose to focus on, right? It often really pops out to me when we get a negative review, when somebody leaves a one-star review and they complain about some aspect of what we're doing. And

人生の多くは、自分が何に焦点を当てるかによって決まるということだ。私たちがネガティブなレビューを受けたり、誰かが1つ星のレビューを残したりして、私たちのやっていることのある側面について文句を言われたりすると、そのことがよく目に浮かびます。そして

I go, oh my God, I can feel the sting of that. And then we get so many five-star reviews that just kind of blend into the background for me. And you don't really pay attention to them because they're not rocking the boat of my experience in the same way. I appreciate them. I don't want to act like I don't appreciate them. I really do. People say some incredibly touching things about the show. But it's really easy for them to just slip right through my mental sieve without me really paying a lot of attention to it. One of the things that I've been really conscious of in my own life recently is paying attention to where

私は、ああ、大変だ、その刺々しさを感じるよ。そして、多くの5つ星レビューが寄せられる。私の経験というボートを同じように揺らしているわけではないからだ。私は彼らに感謝している。感謝していないようには振る舞いたくない。本当に感謝している。みんな、このショーについて信じられないような感動的なことを言ってくれる。でも、私があまり気に留めることなく、私の心のふるいをすり抜けてしまうのは本当に簡単なことなんだ。最近、私自身の生活の中で本当に意識していることのひとつは、次のようなことに注意を払うことだ。

I am placing my attention and being a lot more thoughtful about focusing on the elements of my experience that are more positive and taking in the good, of course, as you like to say, and to really be wearing what I've started calling the mood of complaint, which is just our tendency sometimes to fall into these cycles where just everything is not quite right. I am really looking forward to this exploration, right? Because we can fall into trouble either way. On the one hand, we can be reactive to criticism. And second, we can be critical ourselves. For me, it's been a real journey initially to claim my voice to be able to critique the things that weren't so good. Because when I was a kid, we were really muzzled. My parents had a monopoly on anger, and I was really scared of sticking my neck out. It took a long time for me to be the proverbial kid at the parade saying, the emperor's wearing boxer shorts with polka dots, or Oliver Twist walking up to the table and saying, please, may I have another bowl of oatmeal? That took me a while to do, but then I began to really have to pay attention to being overly critical and also paying attention to the ways that the content of the correction—let's just think of it in terms of the distinction between what could be and what is, what realistically could be and what is, between standard and actual, let's say, goal and actual—whatever that information might be, because that's what that is, that's information, wrapped around it can be a lot of topspin, including topspin that's just conferred by your privilege in where you stand in society. So as a male, older, professional person, I can offer a piece of information about a gap between what is and what actually could be with good intentions, and yet it can really sting. Because in ways

自分の体験の中で、よりポジティブな要素に意識を集中し、あなたの言うように良いものを取り入れることに、より注意深くなり、不満の気分と呼ぶようになりました。私はこの探求をとても楽しみにしているんだ。というのも、私たちはどちらにしてもトラブルに陥る可能性があるからだ。一方では、批判に反応してしまう。そしてもうひとつは、私たち自身が批判的になること。私にとっては、最初は自分の声を主張し、あまり良くないものを批評できるようになるための本当の旅だった。というのも、私が子供の頃、私たちは本当に口止めされていたからだ。両

I'm not entirely aware of, it can have an impact, understandably, way out of proportion to what I actually intended. And yet, if we also bring in the dimension for us of criticizing ourselves, there is no way to get through this life without screwing up, including in ways that you regret every single day and in ways that fill you with pain and remorse whenever you think about them. But that's simply part of the stew of life. Call it the hot pepper in the stew of life. There's just no way around it, and it burns every time you taste it. And you got to accept that and not be too hard on yourself about that.

自分ではまったく意識していないことだが、それは当然ながら、自分が実際に意図したこととはかけ離れた影響を与えることがある。それでも、自分自身を批判するという私たちの次元も持ち込めば、毎日後悔するようなやり方や、思い出すたびに痛みや自責の念でいっぱいになるようなやり方も含めて、失敗せずにこの人生を乗り切る方法はない。しかし、それは単に人生のシチューの一部なのだ。人生のシチューの中の唐辛子とでも呼べばいい。それを避ける方法はなく、味わうたびに火傷する。それを受け入れて、自分に厳しくしないことだ。

And for me, really look down deeply. Do you have basically good intentions? Do you act in basically good faith? Have you learned from screwing up? That's really important.

そして私にとっては、本当に深く俯瞰することだ。基本的に善意を持っているか？基本的に善意で行動しているか？失敗から学んでいるか？それが本当に重要だ。

Are you still doing it? Or have you learned from doing it? And can you go forward?

まだやっているのか？それとも、それをやって学んだのか？そして前進することができるか？

Totally. And I think that inside of that, it's useful to separate out different kinds of complaints. And people often break complaint into two big categories. The first one are called instrumental complaints. And these are constructive complaints. They're complaints that somebody could actually do something about. And then the second category are expressive complaints. And they're called expressive because they're about expressing your feelings.

まったくだ。その中で、苦情の種類を分けることは有効だと思う。人々は苦情を2つの大きなカテゴリーに分けることが多い。1つ目は「手段的クレーム」と呼ばれるものです。これは建設的な苦情です。誰かが実際に何かをすることができる苦情です。そして2つ目のカテゴリーは、表現的な苦情です。自分の感情を表現することから、表現的不満と呼ばれています。

And they often include relatively little chance of somebody doing something. They're not fundamentally about problem solving. And I think that there's actually really a place for both of these forms of complaint. It's really easy to look at instrumental complaints as good complaints and expressive complaints as bad complaints. But I think that that's probably a little overly simplistic. But it is helpful for us to just take a look at the reality that a lot of the time when we're complaining, we're doing it for a reason other than actually trying to change our circumstances. And there's a place there for really taking a look at that and going, wow, is that really what we want to do?

誰かが何かをする可能性は比較的低い。根本的に問題解決のためのものではないのだ。そして私は、この2つの苦情の形には、実はどちらもふさわしい場所があると思う。道具的な苦情を良い苦情、表現的な苦情を悪い苦情と見るのは本当に簡単だ。でも、それは少し単純化しすぎかもしれない。しかし、私たちが苦情を言うとき、多くの場合、実際に状況を変えようとする以外の理由でそうしているという現実に目を向けることは、私たちにとって有益なことです。そして、それを見て、うわあ、それは本当に私たちがやりたいことなのだろうか？

When I look back on my own history, some things that I've started to highlight for some time now around how to offer feedback or how to express wants, including wanting something to stop happening or something to start happening that there's been some real stakes on the table for. That's a real important thing. As soon as I start getting worked up and then we're in trouble, right? Or I start getting identified with my complaint, my criticism, or righteous about it. I start adding a mass to it, developing a case around it. And then

私自身の歴史を振り返ってみると、フィードバックを提供する方法や、何かを止めてほしいとか、何かを始めてほしいというような欲求を表現する方法など、以前から強調してきたことがある。これは本当に重要なことだ。私が興奮し始めると、すぐにトラブルになる。あるいは、自分の不満や批判、正論に同調し始める。私はそれに塊を加え、その周りにケースを展開し始める。そうすると

I know I'm in trouble. Moving into a stance of feeling outraged about something that really does not deserve outrage. I think some things do deserve outrage, right? But I can't believe that yet again, you left your plate in the sink. After all I've done for you, you still leave your damn plate in the sink, right? Like, no, that just doesn't deserve that kind of almost like flip switching. And I can feel it coming over me. It's like a bad version of Braveheart in the movie of just this total warrior around something that's just way out of proportion to what the real issue is on the table. So markers, whatever those internal red lights are on your inner dashboard that let you know that you're getting in trouble about something that's really good to pay attention to. Last one I'll just say is accelerating, starting to speed up, making points rat-tat-tat-tat-tat, or getting more intense with gestures, accelerating in body movements. That also is kind of a giveaway. Accelerating and contracting are both giveaways of maybe you're getting into some trouble territory here that is wrapping around the useful information you're trying to convey or the experience you're trying to share. But it's going to get you in trouble. You don't need to add all that to it. Anyway, that's been something that I've been really trying to learn about.

私は自分が困っていることを知っている。憤怒に値しないことに対して憤怒を感じるというスタンスに移行している。憤慨に値することもあると思うんだけど？でも、またしてもお皿を流しに置き忘れるなんて信じられない。せっかく私がしてあげたのに、まだお皿を流しに置いていくなんて。そんなの、そんなの、そんなの、そんなの、そんなの、そんなの、そんなの、そんなの。そして、私はそれを感じることができる。映画『ブレイブハート』の悪いバージョンのような、現実の問題とはかけ離れたことをやってのける戦士のような感じなんだ。だから、自分の

Yeah, totally. And we're talking here a little bit, starting the episode basically by talking about how can we give more effective criticism and be a better complainer, if you want to kind of put it that way. And one of the big questions that I've started to ask myself about this mood of complaint that I can sometimes find myself in is, what is my actual objective?

そうだね。どうすればもっと効果的な批判ができるのか、どうすればもっと上手に文句を言えるようになるのか、そんなところからこのエピソードは始まっているんだ。そして、時折自分自身が陥ってしまうこの不平不満ムードについて、自分自身に問いかけるようになった大きな疑問のひとつが、自分の実際の目的は何なのか、ということだ。

What is my primary motivation? What do I want to accomplish with whatever it is that I'm saying to the other person? Because there are a lot of reasons for complaining that, like I was saying earlier, have nothing to do with problem-solving. People complain to bond socially. They also complain for mood regulation purposes. A lot of people vent just to kind of get it out of their system, right? Now, basically, that's dumping your negative mood on somebody else, so it could be a mixed bag, but it's a reason people complain.

私の第一の動機は何か？自分が相手に言っていることが何であれ、自分は何を達成したいのだろうか？というのも、文句を言う理由には、先ほど言ったように、問題解決とは関係のないものがたくさんあるからだ。人は社会的な絆を深めるために愚痴を言う。また、気分調整のために愚痴を言うこともある。多くの人は、ただ自分の感情を吐き出すために愚痴を言うんだ。基本的に、それは自分のネガティブな気分を他の誰かにぶつけることなので、複雑な気持ちにはなりますが、愚痴をこぼす理由にはなります。

They deserved it.

彼らはそれに値する。

Yeah, they deserved it. And again, like vengeance. Vengeance is a reason that people complain, right? Or they might be like seeking attention. Sometimes I seek attention with my complaints.

ああ、当然の報いだ。そしてまた、復讐のように。復讐は、人々が不平を言う理由でしょう？あるいは注目を浴びたいのかもしれない。私も自分の不満で注目されたいと思うことがある。

I want somebody to pay attention to my experience more, so it becomes like a kind of cry for help. And those are all reasons that somebody might complain that are really understandable.

自分の経験にもっと目を向けてほしい。誰かが文句を言う理由は、どれも本当に理解できるものばかりだ。

Bonding is an okay motivation to complain, and sharing your feelings is an okay motivation, but it's really helpful to understand why you're doing this thing, and if there might be something else that could fulfill that purpose better than offering a complaint.

絆を深めることは文句を言う動機になるし、感情を分かち合うことも動機になる。しかし、自分がなぜこのようなことをしているのか、文句を言うよりももっと他にその目的を果たせることがあるのではないかと理解することは、本当に役に立つ。

Another thing that I really ask myself is, is it possible for what I'm complaining about to actually change? Like, can the person that I'm talking to really do something about this thing in a focused way?

もうひとつ、私が自問自答しているのは、私が不満に思っていることを実際に変えることは可能なのか、ということだ。例えば、私が話している相手は、このことについて集中的に何かをすることができるのだろうか？

Yeah, I find it's also super helpful. This gets a little bit at the distinction, which

そうだね。これは少し区別する必要がある。

I'd never heard before. One thing that's great about working with you is that you forest to a deep dive into the psychology and the current research related to our topics, and you bring stuff forward that, wow, you're educating me. So, you know, instrumental and expressive forms of complaining. To say it maybe a little differently, the way I would put it, is the distinction between asserting information and sharing an experience.

初めて聞く話ばかりだった。あなたとの仕事で素晴らしいことのひとつは、私たちのトピックに関連する心理学や現在の研究を深く掘り下げてくれることです。つまり、不平不満の器楽的な形と表現的な形。もう少し違う言い方をすれば、情報を主張することと経験を共有することの違いです。

Yeah.

そうだね。

And let me get at that point with a little story, which had to do when I was maybe 21 or 2, and I just started getting involved with the EST training. And I recall being in a seminar room with this just powerhouse of a teacher, and she would have one person after another come to the front of the room and practice leading the very first part of this guest seminar, this workshop. And then people would give feedback. So, the person would come up to the front of the room and give a little talk for 3 to 5 minutes. Then

私が21歳か2歳の頃、ESTのトレーニングに参加し始めたばかりだった。セミナールームで、このパワフルな先生と一緒にいたときのことを思い出すよ。彼女は、次から次へと人を部屋の前に呼んで、ゲストセミナーやワークショップの最初の部分をリードする練習をさせるんだ。そして人々がフィードバックをする。それで、その人は部屋の前まで来て、3分から5分間、ちょっとした話をする。それから

Marsha would say, okay, feedback. And people would start saying things like, well, I think you ought to have done X, or when you did Y, it would be better if you did Z. Marsha would cut them off again and again. She would say, I don't want your infinite wisdom. I want your experience. What were you experiencing while this person was talking? And then people would start to share, well, in the very beginning, what I was experiencing was a lot of attentiveness to you and a feeling of liking you. And after about half a minute, while you were moving into this sort of long list of details, my experience was I started feeling kind of bored and my mind began to wander, and I was becoming more interested in other things. That's gold, sharing your experience. And I think both in terms of giving feedback and receiving feedback, it's helpful to get a factual-based information or statements of values. Okay, that's good. But what's really, really valuable is what was your experience? What was it like for you? How did it land on you? Which is usually a lot more vulnerable and challenging to share. So we tend to go into the assertions of fact or assertions of values, assertions of information to avoid the vulnerability, right, of just laying out our own experience.

マーシャは、オーケー、フィードバックと言う。マーシャはそれを何度も何度も切り捨てた。あなたの無限の知恵はいらない。あなたの経験が欲しいのです。この人が話している間、あなたは何を経験していたの？そうすると人々は、最初のうちは、私が経験していたのは、あなたに対するたくさんの気配りであり、あなたを好きだという感情でした、と話し始めるのです。そして、半分ほどして、あなたがこのような長い詳細のリストに移っている間に、私の経験では、私は退屈を感じ始め、心がさまよい始め、他のことに興味を持ち始めました。自分の経験を分か

And it's paradoxical because, or ironic in that, there's this kind of fear that our experience itself doesn't have authority. It'll be dismissed or disregarded, maybe because it was.

逆説的というか、皮肉というか......私たちの経験そのものに権威がないという恐怖がある。それは棄却されたり、無視されたりするかもしれない。

I think that's really good, Dad. This is a really important point. I don't know if I've heard this one before. I really like this.

本当にいいことだと思うよ、父さん。これは本当に重要なポイントだ。前に聞いたことがあるようなないような。私はこれが本当に好きなんだ。

Good, yeah. And so we start then asserting facts and asserting values, which we actually have much less natural authority for, and other people think they have authority about what the facts are and what ought to be. And so then they'll start arguing with us about that. But where we have complete authority, actually, is the honest revelation, the honest sharing of our own direct experience. When that was happening, my mind was wandering.

そうだね。そして、私たちは事実を主張し、価値観を主張し始めるのですが、実は私たちには自然な権威があまりありません。そうすると、他の人たちは自分たちが事実とは何か、どうあるべきかについて権威を持っていると思い込む。しかし、私たちが完全な権威を持っているのは、実は正直な啓示であり、自分自身の直接的な経験を正直に分かち合うことなのだ。そのとき、私の心はさまよっていた。

When that was happening, on the other hand, I felt really close to you and interested in what you were having to say. Because we are the world's greatest experts on our own experience, right? We are the great authorities on it. And that's where we have the ultimate refuge because people can argue forever about facts and values, but they cannot argue about the fact that you are actually experiencing something at the time.

そんなとき、逆に私はあなたをとても身近に感じ、あなたの話に興味を持った。なぜなら、私たちは自分自身の経験に関する世界最大の専門家だからでしょう？私たちはその偉大な権威なんだ。なぜなら、人は事実や価値観について永遠に議論することはできても、あなたがその時実際に何かを経験しているという事実について議論することはできないからです。

Yeah, and that reminds me immediately of formal systems of communication like nonviolent communication, which is probably relevant to name here, which has a specific structure attached to it. We've done an episode on nonviolent communication. And the basic idea behind it is that you're doing exactly what you're talking about, Dad. You're operating from the stance of revealing your experience with the other person, and then expressing some desire attached to that experience. And that takes me to probably the single best piece of advice that I've ever received about communication. I think I got it from you. And it's start by joining.

非暴力コミュニケーションのような形式的なコミュニケーション・システムをすぐに思い出す。私たちは非暴力コミュニケーションについてのエピソードを書いたことがあります。その基本的な考え方は、パパが話していることをそのままやっているということなんだ。自分の経験を相手と共有し、その経験に付随する欲求を表現するというスタンスで行動しているのです。そしてそれは、私がコミュニケーションについて受けたアドバイスの中で、おそらく唯一最高のものにつながる。私はそれをあなたからもらったと思う。そして、それは参加することから始まる

And so if you're offering a complaint, it is 99.99% of the time best to start by joining.

だから、苦情を申し出るのであれば、99.99％の確率で加入から始めるのがベストだ。

Is it possible for you to find a place where you can overlap with the other person, integrate with your experience with them, come a little closer, operate from a stance of vulnerability, give them a compliment, you know, whatever? Can you achieve a team? And from that team with them, can you go, hey, here's some ideas I've had about how we can improve this team.

相手と重なるところ、相手との経験を統合するところ、少し近づくところ、弱さのスタンスから行動するところ、相手を褒めるところ、何でもいい。チームを作ることができるか？そして、相手とのチームから、どうすればこのチームをより良くできるかについて、私が考えたアイデアがいくつか出てくる。

So it's not you and them. It's both of you together, working toward the resolution of an issue. And that was totally transformative for me in my life when I started to operate more from that stance. I'm still trying to learn it.

つまり、それはあなたと彼らではない。ふたりで一緒に、問題の解決に向けて努力するんだ。そのようなスタンスで行動するようになったとき、私の人生は大きく変わりました。私はまだそれを学ぼうとしている。

Yeah. It's not always easy to be quick.

そうだね、いつもすぐにというわけにはいかない。

I know. I think there's a certain kind of special embarrassment when you've been training to do something for a long time, like training to play the bagpipes for a really long time. And you're, you know, you're reasonably good at it. And then you suddenly realize that you've been playing a song wrong, or you've been falling back into some kind of beginner's mistake, and I've definitely been going through some of that recently in my own personal life.

そうだね。バグパイプを長い間練習してきたような場合、ある種の特別な恥ずかしさがあると思うんだ。そして、それなりに上手くなっている。そして、ある曲を間違えて演奏していたことに突然気づいたり、初心者のミスに逆戻りしてしまったりする。

I want to add one thing, if I could, just to what you said there, which is that it's really understandable that we are afraid to share our experience with others, especially if we've had a history in which that did not go well. We got attacked for it or shunned for it. It was not the culture or whatever it was. So it's really, really understandable. And I think that the world would be a lot better if people, me included, just clocked more time in sort of vulnerable revealing of their experiencing in real time. It's quite remarkable when you do that.

特に、過去にうまくいかなかった経験があればなおさらだ。そのために攻撃されたり、敬遠されたりした。それが文化であれ何であれ。だから、それは本当に、本当に理解できる。そして、私も含めて、人々がリアルタイムで経験したことを無防備にさらけ出す時間をもっと増やせば、世界はもっと良くなると思う。そうすれば、とても素晴らしいことが起こる。

Yeah, totally. And I think that a great indicator inside of our relationships with other people is how open are they to accepting your vulnerability in that way.

ああ、まったくだ。他人との関係の中で、自分の弱さを受け入れてくれるかどうかが大きな指標になると思う。

And if you're in a relationship with somebody where it just really feels like they are not available for that, man, it's tough. It's a tough relationship. And I'm not saying that that means that relationship can't exist, but it might mean that there are some ways to protect yourself emotionally that the basis of the relationship needs to change a little bit. You've talked a lot,

そして、もしあなたが誰かと交際しているときに、その人がそのようなことを求めていないように感じるとしたら、それは大変なことだ。厳しい関係だ。だからといって、その関係が成り立たないとは言わないけど、感情的に自分を守るために、関係の基礎を少し変える必要があるかもしれない。よく話してくれたね、

Dad, about changing the size of the foundation of a relationship to match its foundation, is a better way to put it, because there's only so much that can be held up by an interpersonal relationship where they're just not open to your vulnerability.

父さん、人間関係の基礎の大きさをその基礎に合わせて変えるというのは、もっといい言い方だ。相手が自分の弱さを受け入れてくれないような対人関係では、持ちこたえられるものは限られてくるからね。

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And one thing that can come forward when people are just really revealed about what it's like to be you is that what it's like to be you is to feel chronically let down by other people. Yeah, for sure. Chronically disrespected, unsupported, mistreated, usually because it's pretty much been true. And what do you do if that's very much in your history or because it's been in your history, there's an understandable, not quite expectation, but a concern that is going to happen yet again?

ああ、そうだね。そして、人々があなたであることがどのようなことなのかを本当に明らかにしたときに、前に出てくることがあるのが、あなたであることがどのようなことなのかということだ。ええ、確かに。慢性的に軽蔑され、支持されず、虐待され、たいていはそれが真実だからだ。そして、それがあなたの歴史に深く刻まれている場合、あるいはあなたの歴史に刻まれているために、理解できる、期待まではいかないが、また同じことが起こるのではないかという懸念がある場合、あなたはどうしますか？

And that's real for people. Now, sometimes it is true that people can take that real sense of just being let down, a kind of inner slump. They can add to it with a certain amount of what in therapy world we could call secondary gains by kind of working their mood of reproach as like, you know, that wound is almost a badge of honor that presents itself as a claim on other people.

そして、それは人々にとって現実なのだ。さて、時々、人は失望させられたという現実的な感覚を、ある種の内面的な落ち込みとして受け止めることがあるのは事実です。セラピーの世界では、二次的利益と呼ぶことができるような、非難された気分を、その傷が他の人に対する主張として現れる名誉のバッジのようなものとして働かせることで、ある種の追加をすることができる。

And they're kind of afraid that if they don't lead with that complaint and that claim, then there won't be a basis for other people to come through for them.

そして、もし自分たちがその不満や主張をリードしなければ、他の人たちが自分たちのために力を貸してくれる根拠がなくなってしまうことを恐れているようなところがある。

And they'll be abandoned as a result. So sometimes there is that add-on, there is that add-on, okay. But underneath it all often for people is a very genuine and understandable sense of just having been really let down. And so what do you do with that, right? What do you do with that? There's a lot of stuff about becoming mindful of it, becoming aware of it, bringing compassion to yourself about it, respecting yourself, recognizing that, of course, you feel this way, of course, you feel let down, of course, you're afraid of being let down again. That's where we start.