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We talked with Ali Abdaal about his Second Brain:
the Idea Factory he used to build a team of 20
employees and a 3-million subscriber YouTube channel.
In this detailed walkthrough, we'll talk about the
four steps of Ali's Second Brain process:
his system for where notes go,
and the specific apps he
uses every step of the way.
This is Ali Abdaal's Second Brain. ?
First, let's start with Capture.
So Capture is about getting it outside of your brain,
social media, the world, and into some trusted single place
where you can start to work with it.
What are the different ways
that you capture information?
Okay, so many.
The first one is Physical Notebook. Perfect.
I still like Physical Notebook.
I kind of go between various
ones, depending on how I'm feeling. Recently.
Last week or so.
I've started Morning Pages.
So I have this other notebook where I do
three pages of, like, handwritten-y text – uh, text – uh, WRITING (both laugh)
And if I'm capturing notes on the fly,
usually I just use Apple Notes because all
the other apps, they kind of suck online.
And I'm often in for example, if I'm in a restaurant
and I'm in the toilet downstairs where there's no
signal and no WiFi, and that goes into Apple Notes.
That's apple notes on your phone, right? That's right.
Occasionally apple notes on my Mac as well.
It's very easy to just pop it open
with Alfred (app) and I have multiple folders.
It's basically almost like, Evernote, but
it's just such an easy place to just chuck stuff into,
and I can kind of forget about it. And I know that,
again, (tip from your course)
if I ever need to find something, I can just
search for it rather than having to worry about the
specific folder and the specific tag and all of that.
Generally, I do a lot of automated capture stuff. Okay.
So I don't have to think about it too much. Perfect.
So Readwise is like the center of my capture
system, so that if I'm reading on Kindle and
I highlight on Kindle, it goes into Readwise.
If I'm reading on Instapaper, it goes into Readwise.
More recently, I'm using the beta version of Readwise's
Reader app, which is sort of Mac web iOS.
So when I highlight on that, it goes into
Readwise, and then Readwise syncs into my Roam and
my Notion and all that kind of stuff
further down the line. I use
Day One as my journal app.
So if it's like journaling and it's
private, I'll turn it into day one.
Often, if I'm writing a daily note in Roam,
I'll just copy paste it into Day One anyway,
just because I like having the data.
And I've been using day one for five years
plus now, so it's a nice stream of daily
journaling, daily thoughts, that kind of stuff.
I do use Todoist as, like, kind of – if it's a
task and I want to capture it, I'll chuck in Todoist.
Occasionally I'll just do a voice memo,
But the app I use most often is Otter.ai,
for example, I'm having a conversation with someone and I
know this is a conversation that would be useful to
record and transcribe things, I'll just open up otter on
my phone trying to put it down in between us
and it's just doing it. Cool, isn't it? It's so cool.
Do you have anything for YouTube videos?
Clips from or transcripts from YouTube videos?
No, I don't really watch YouTube
videos for that kind of knowledge.
I tend to watch them all for the entertainment
or the oh, that's a cool transition.
But actually when that happens, I use an app
called CleanShot which lets me capture a sort
of screen recording and turn it into a .GIF. Perfect.
And so when that happens, I get that GIF and I
put it into a mood board for the YouTube channel.
Nice title and subtle entrance animation. Very cool.
From this masterclass by Gary.
I want to do this for our channel and
then I just send this to our editors to
be like, hey, this is a cool thing.
In my mind, when I capture something, I have
an idea of what I'm capturing it for.
So for example, I tend to use Apple Notes
and Roam – a combination of the two for
personal note taking, and also for my book.
But we exclusively use Notion for anything related
to the team, anything related to YouTube videos.
If for example, I have random thought in the shower
"Daily Highlight method for productivity", then
I'm thinking, okay, is it relevant for a book thing
or is it relevant for a YouTube video thing?
If it is relevant for a book thing, I'll
chuck it into Apple Notes or into Roam.
And if it's relevant for a YouTube thing,
I'll just chuck it straight into Notion.
Sometimes it's both and then it gets a bit messy.
But I don't think about it too hard.
There's no speed limit.
You can go as fast as you want and if you know
where to put something absolutely why waste the effort
that you just put in to decide where that goes?
Just put it straight there.
What I would question though is what happens when
you don't know what is the plan B?
Is there like a safety net where things can
go, like a Daily Note section or an inbox
where in case you don't have time to decide
where it goes, you can just stick it there?
Yeah, I usually just stick it in Apple Notes
and then I usually forget about it because I
don't actually have a solid review process.
The Daily Notes feature in Roam and
the equivalent app is surprisingly helpful.
May 17 I was just like, I need somewhere to put stuff.
I happen to have Roam with me because I
was on the computer and I was on line.
So if you don't come back to this
and kind of redo it, there's no penalty.
You don't feel bad. Didn't get to it.
Yesterday I had a chat with Daniel and Tristan from
Readwise, "Discussed Book Pitch, Read Wise and Reader
potential course idea course aiming for August 2022"
and then as I was doing that, because I've
been using room for a while, I was like, oh,
this is a course, let me make this course page.
Of course, probably have a good goal setting.
When was this?
I must have kind of done this course like two
years ago when I was getting into buying property.
I often talk to people who seem to think
they need one capture tool, one capture source, which
is absurd. I mean, look at this list!
What is the unit of output that I care about?
And then let's just do whatever it
takes to get to that as efficiently
and as sort of frictionlessly as possible.
And I think the mistake a lot of people make
is that they're wedded to the organization of the system
as if the system is a unit of output.
So, for example, no shade on
August Bradley or Marie Poulin.
But if you're them and you're selling a
course on how to use notion, then it
pays to have a really nice notion setup.
But I think people kind of overly index on oh
my God, august Bradley has made incredible notion set up.
I need to do the same rather than
thinking what do I actually care about?
Rather than have pretty money and stuff.
Now, step two of Ali's Second
Brain: Organize. So for "Organize,"
How I would think of this is just where things go.
Where do they go in terms of an app?
Where they go in terms of a
folder or a tag or a category?
You just want some place that you
know when you have the idea,
"We want animations for YouTube videos," like you showed us
with the mood board, you know where to go.
The thing is, a lot of these
"capture" sources are also "organize" sources.
And so, for example, Apple Notes tend to stay in
Apple Notes unless it is a thing that's going to
become a YouTube video, in which case it goes into
Notion because that's how we manage our YouTube videos.
Or unless it is a thing that's going to become
part of the book, in which case it either goes
into Roam or just stays in Apple Notes.
Because I've even got book folders in apple notes
of like all the different parts of the book.
These are all like various folders for various things.
And I often just add to these, organize them.
Over time, the chapter structures have changed.
Over time, when you're writing a book, stuff changes.
So I don't think about it too hard.
I just trust that if it's something related to the book
and I chuck it somewhere in this book main folder.
It will resurface itself when I'm
focusing on that relevant chapter.
So like Apple Note itself is
a bit of an organizing system.
Similarly, if we go back to Roam, Roam itself
is also I mean, I don't really organize stuff
in Roam particularly because I trust that the tagging
and the searching and stuff will resurface things.
So for example, if let's say I'm working
on chapter one of the book, I have
this sort of subtitles been drafted.
Was drafting this yesterday:
"May 17." "Draft." "Word Count." Quite a handy feature.
But I also then know that I've got a
bunch of other pages related to autonomy and mastery
and purpose and intrinsic motivation and stuff.
I will trust the automatic
organizing capabilities of the app.
So if something like notion is a little bit more
structured, we have this system, of how we work with
a team for all of our videos that we're making.
And so if I need to capture an idea I know
specifically it goes into this page, then Jamie, our YouTube producer
will specifically take the idea and put it into the relevant
place and decide what needs to happen with it.
Back when I was doing everything
myself, this was a lot simpler.
It was just basically a glorified Kanban board where
I could add a glance, see okay, what stage
of production are each of our videos at?
Writing or filming or editing?
I've got hundreds to thousands of things in my
Readwise database in terms of books and articles.
Mostly books and articles,
occasional tweets, occasional podcasts.
And this all gets rooted or routed into my
Roam, which is quite convenient whenever I get around
to refreshing the link because sometimes it doesn't work.
So depending on what kind of idea it is and
how you're going to use it, you either want it
in a hierarchy or you want it in a network.
If I'm online, I will chuck it into Roam.
Sometimes it's even the one to three
milliseconds it takes for room to load.
It needs to have a thing. Absolutely.
If I need to find something, it
will rock up at some point.
So you trust that when you read a
book, take a highlight, it's going to end
up more or less automatically in Roam?
Yeah, more or less automatically in Roam.
And if I need to revisit at some
point, I kind of know that it's there.
And what's interesting about Search, it
doesn't matter where something is located.
Have you noticed when you do a search, it
just finds the thing you don't know or care
which folder or link or tag it's part of? Exactly.
Yeah, I find this that often
I don't actually organize stuff.
Like this is my just general Notes
folder and I'm like, all of this
stuff should probably be organized somewhere.
And then I'm like, I don't really care.
Yes, I'll find it in search if I need to. Totally.
There's that nice phrase,
I think it's from Andy Grove, which is like
"Let chaos reign, then rein in chaos." Nice. Yes.
Whereas I think the mistake people make is that
they try to figure out the system first.
Actually, if you become chaotic first, then you'll figure
out what the minimum Bible level of organization is.
Step three is Distill.
So Distill is about boiling down the essence.
How do you start to corral, to kind
of survey all this different information that you've
saved and organized so that you can create
a video or a piece of writing? What
comes to mind? For YouTube videos, when I do distilling
is when we have a video that I need to write.
In the past, and sometimes when I have spare time
and I'll be like, oh, I have this idea.
Let me just do a little slow burner on one
of these 18 videos that we've got in the pipeline.
But now that I've got a team, it's more like this week.
The two videos that I care about are
how to Get Started with Investing and the
Book club episode of Building a Second Brain.
Let's do the investing one.
So once you have that lens, that kind of
filter, where are you going to go to find
basically, like, what you know about that subject?
Step one is my first brain, and
step two is my second brain proof.
And step three is the Internet,
which is the optional step.
This is a video I made about two years ago.
And I remember writing it on a night
shift when I was in the hospital because
a friend messaged me on WhatsApp saying, hey,
man, I want to get started with investing.
How do I do it?
And I started replying to him on my phone.
I was like, well, this is inefficient. WhatsApp Web,
WhatsApp is blocked
on the hospital computers.
And I was like, Wait a minute. Notion is not blocked.
So I opened up Notion, I made a tag, it tagging.
I made a card "how to Get
Started With Investing" and just started writing.
I was like, okay, all the advice I'm going to give
my friend, let me just chuck it into a Notion page
because I know this will be a video at some point.
I love that example.
And then that video came out, and now
it's got like three or 4 million views
and it's just done super well over time.
I think now that I have got a
more fleshed out second brain, I can think.
Okay, first off, let's say I'm doing a
video called Investing Advice for Your 20s.
What I'd be doing is off the
top of my head, what's my list?
What am my bullet points?
But also I know that I've read The Psychology of
Money, and I know I highlighted a bunch of stuff
and I know I've got a video about the book.
So I know that's going to be either in
Roam or in Notion or in my readwise Highlights.
I know I've read some stuff on Collaborative Fund.
I know.
I've read some other things by Morgan Housel.
I know I've read some stuff on Mr.
Money Moustache's personal finance blog.
Theoretically, if I just search my Roam, I may come
across some things which I hadn't thought of, that my
first brain hadn't come up with that thing. Yes.
And therefore, let me just chuck it into
this video because this is a good point. So good.
Look at this:
"December 19, 2020.
The rich man car paradox."
I actually forgotten that was a thing
because I read this two years ago. There you go.
But I've just searched "Money" in Roam. I read.
Oh, "psychology." Oh.
I actually read this as a blog post.
This was a blog post before I read it as a book.
I completely forgot about that.
And I've highlighted this thing at the time.
This would be a really interesting point
that I would put in the video
that my first brain hadn't thought about.
Perfect. "To generate more respect than fast cars."
That's nice.
Well played, Morgan!
This is what I think people don't understand.
And you kind of referenced it before.
You don't need to do new research.
Don't go to Google.
Imagine if you went to Google right now, how to invest.
Oh, God.
It would be the most pointless that some
content marketer for Hubspot wrote at one point.
It would be the worst. It would be the worst.
And instead of what we're talking about here, you're drawing
from years, even for a subject that you said yourself
you're not that interested in, but even a subject like
that, you could probably come up with ten or 20
pieces of content from the sources you just mentioned.
Step four, it's time to Express.
What do you do now that you've done, in
a sense, all this preparatory work you've captured, organized,
still to support, to make it easy to actually
just get your ideas out into the world.
What does that look like for you?
Here's how it actually go about it.
In fact, to be honest, this is how I would do it.
If it's a video that I'm just sort of
typing a few notes and stuff for, I would
actually just do it in Apple Notes.
What makes you go to Apple Notes versus Roam for this?
The way I'm actually thinking of it is
just quicker to write things in Apple Notes. Yeah.
And if I want to purchase that one on
the toilet or something, I don't have to worry
about Roam loading and being online and all of
the friction associated with Chrome, even though it's powerful,
it's, like, more annoying to deal with.
And so for a video like this, I think I'm
going to drop it out in Apple Notes, and then
when it's ready to go into Notion, I'll just copy
paste into notion so then the team can do stuff
with it that actually makes a lot of sense.
I think often when it comes to expressing, you use
the simplest app because the features of a more sophisticated
app, now when we're in convergence are now friction.
They're creating friction and you need to
just sprint towards that end product.
Yeah, I think that's very true.
I often find myself dropping a lot of
book chapters in Apple Notes as well.
So I know I just need to
know it's new, not worry about it.
And I can immediately start writing apple notes.
I can start typing as soon as I start thinking. Exactly.
Basically what we need is an intro.
All we need is a hook.
We need an intro.
Probably C. O. D. E. makes a lot of sense.
And then "productive output, note taking, capture."
I'm just sort of blitzing through these
and looking at this kind of stuff. "PARA"
Not a huge fan of PARA. Sorry.
HEY!
"August 21, my building second brain:
resources, personal notes, team projects." Okay.
I mean, I've just gotten rid of Evernote and
replaced it with Apple Notes, but that's interesting.
That's what I was doing two years ago. Yeah.
Now I am looking for – hello!
"The capture habit." Cool.
From your Building a Second Brain podcast. Cool. Okay.
That's interesting.
So I've got my transcripts from this.
This was when I was using Airr (app).
That's handy. Okay. Yeah. Like this.
"Valuing your own idea. My perspective
has something to offer.
A bit of a leap of faith."
That's interesting. Beautiful. "It's the trust.
You know this quote that you wrote from a documentary..."
Oh, mate, you were on form in this podcast!
"I said, you can't predict that."
Organize, distill, express.
It's interesting what you do.
You did the first search for BASB and
now you're drilling down, doing more and more
specific searches to fill out your outline.
This would be how I first approach this kind of video.
And then I'd probably just walk around a
bit and be like, all right, what is
the actual thing that I care about?
I'd probably stick to the book
and be like, "All right, cool. What's going on
in 'Organize'?"
What would be the next stage after that?
What do you do with this outline? Good question.
So have we already... "building a second brain..."
Have we already got a Book Club about it?
Oh yeah, we do. "Book Club, Building a Second Brain.
There you go.
"Publishing date: June 15."
Thank you, team, for already making that happen. Boom.
Copy and paste into Ali's notes, as part of our notes.
Like we planned this or something. Yeah.
We also have this cool title ideas area, where
it automatically calculates the length in terms of characters.
Smart.
We want to keep it under 55 characters.
"This Book changed my approach to productivity."
That's a potential title. I'd be thinking about this.
The team would be thinking about this.
"How to build a second brain"
"My favorite productivity book."
Keep going, keep going!
(laughter)
Then what the team would do
is think about thumbnail concepts.
I'd be thinking, could we get, like, a little model of
a brain, like a little brain to put in the corner?
And then we would do some market research to
be like, all right, let's look on YouTube.
Building a Second Brain.
What's going on with that one? Oh, wow.
"Second Brain productivity system.
by Ali Abdaal." That looks great!
1 million views.
You've got 200,000 views on what?
It looks like a PowerPoint presentation.
Okay, so that's promising.
So this is like janky as ****, but it's got 200K views.
So that's a sign that this topic lands with people.
Then I would chuck the content and my notes into this.
One of our writers
will take my rough first draft of what I
think I want to say, flesh it out into
maybe you want to say this as well. This as well.
This as well.
And then I'd go through and be like, yes. No. Cut. Yeah.
Cool.
We just went through all four steps to CODE.
Besides the actual filming, in about 30 minutes.
That's brilliant.
To build your own second brain process.
Sign up for the CODE Quick
Start guide in the description below.
Or if you want to start taking notes
immediately, watch this video on how to pick
your very own note taking app.
Sweet. Great stuff.
Well played everyone. GG?
Should we do some thumbnails?
Uh, yeah! Nice.
All right, let's stop this recording.
I hope it worked.
Ah, thank God for that –