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  • CHRISTINE: Christine [INAUDIBLE].

  • I'm a member of our legal team.

  • And I somehow got tricked into doing this event because I was

  • so excited to meet Cheryl.

  • For those of you who don't know, Cheryl Strayed is a New

  • York Times best-selling author.

  • She had two books come out in the last year, "Wild," which

  • was her memoir of her three-month solo trip up the

  • Pacific Crest Trail of hiking more than 1,000 miles.

  • She also had a book come out called "Tiny Beautiful

  • Things," which is a compendium, I don't know, a

  • collection of her columns that she wrote as Dear Sugar.

  • And "Dear Sugar" was an advice column on the Rumpus.

  • Still is.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yes.

  • CHRISTINE: But, sort of advice column that transcended the

  • bounds of advice columns.

  • She's also the author of a critically acclaimed novel

  • called "Torch." And she has an MFA from Syracuse University

  • and a PA from the University of Minnesota.

  • And she lives in Portland with two kids.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: And my husband.

  • CHRISTINE: And her husband.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: And our three cats.

  • CHRISTINE: Three cats?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Three, yeah.

  • CHRISTINE: That's a lot of cats.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: That's a lot of cats.

  • CHRISTINE: So welcome.

  • We're so excited to have you.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Thank you.

  • It's great to be here.

  • And thank you all for coming.

  • Oh, thanks.

  • CHRISTINE: So, we had lunch today.

  • And Cheryl has seen all of the Google perks.

  • So I think the next step, Laslo, is maybe that we need

  • an artist in residence.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • We're thinking.

  • I could split my time, artist in residence

  • and hiker in residence.

  • CHRISTINE: We have plenty of trails around here.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: That's right.

  • That's right.

  • Somebody needs to take you guys on those trails.

  • CHRISTINE: So, the last year of your life, I think, must be

  • something that you couldn't have anticipated.

  • Did you anticipate that both "Tiny Beautiful Things" and

  • "Wild" would have exploded like this when you were

  • writing them and publishing them?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: No.

  • And yet, there's a longer answer to that question.

  • It has to do with essentially what I had to do along the way

  • as I became a writer.

  • When I was in my early 20s and I had all of these ambitions

  • to be a writer and was really studying the writer's craft

  • and writing my first stories, I had these grandiose ideas

  • about what it meant to be a writer that I think a lot of

  • times people early in their careers as writers they think,

  • OK, I'm gonna write this book.

  • I am gonna be on the best seller list, or I'll be a

  • famous author.

  • And then the more you work, the more you come to

  • understand that you really cannot measure

  • success in that way.

  • Your book being on the best seller list is not an accurate

  • gauge of success when you're a literary artist.

  • And I say that with great confidence because I know so

  • many fantastic writers who are writing beautiful work worthy

  • of our attention that they don't ever

  • really get our attention.

  • And so, I had to really come to grips with that pretty

  • early on and say the way I was going to measure success as a

  • writer was to always do the best work I could, to put my

  • full self into it, to do my work, to study the craft, and

  • to write fearlessly with great vulnerability, and

  • then come what may.

  • What's so fascinating to me is "Wild" would be the exact same

  • book whether two people had read it or two million people

  • had read it.

  • That book what exist.

  • I would not have done anything differently.

  • But of course what happens when two million people have

  • read your book is it becomes something else.

  • It goes from being my book to your book.

  • And one of the things that has happened over and over again,

  • I've talked to thousands of people around the world in

  • this last year.

  • And they all tell me their relationship to the book,

  • their stories about the book, the pieces of it that

  • intrigued them or infuriated them or whatever

  • the book did to them.

  • And so they've sort of made it theirs.

  • CHRISTINE: Your writing, I think, is so emotional.

  • And it's so honest, I think, so raw about experiences that

  • happened to you.

  • It's seems like you're very, very forthcoming about things.

  • And I think I'm curious as to what it's like as a writer to

  • have something that's so close to your heart that then goes

  • out into the world and sort of morphs into its own beast?

  • What is that like?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: The couple months right

  • before "Wild" came out--

  • I'm just gonna set this down.

  • The couple months before "Wild"

  • came out, I was terrified.

  • I had been writing the "Dear Sugar" column.

  • I'd written essays that had been read widely that were

  • very vulnerable and raw.

  • But I had never published a book that was essentially my

  • heart on the page.

  • I mean, my first book, "Torch," is my heart on the

  • page, but it's fiction.

  • And so even though there are all these pieces of "Torch"

  • that are, in fact, very true, there was this screen between

  • me and the reader where I could say,

  • well, this is a fiction.

  • "Wild," I was saying the opposite.

  • I was saying this is me.

  • This is my story.

  • If somebody doesn't like the book-- and I

  • mean, I've seen this.

  • I try not to read--

  • I try not to Google myself.

  • Because really for a writer, that's a dangerous prospect.

  • And I get these Google alerts every day.

  • And I try to sort of skim and not really actually read what

  • people have written about me.

  • And people have written all kinds of really nice

  • things about me.

  • And then some people have written really nasty

  • things about me.

  • And what's happening is that character in that book is me.

  • And so if they don't like the book, they think

  • they don't like me.

  • Or if they do like the book, they think they like me.

  • And, a couple of nights ago I was giving a reading.

  • And afterwards, this woman came up with her book and she

  • said, I'm so glad I came tonight.

  • And I said think you.

  • And she said I didn't think I was gonna like you at all.

  • And I was like, oh, thank you.

  • And I didn't even want to explore what she

  • meant by that because--

  • What she was saying is you in person, I like you in person.

  • But I think she had some misgivings

  • about me on the page.

  • And so this is an incredibly scary thing.

  • And yet it's the writer's work.

  • It's the whole deal.

  • Not just the writer, any artist.

  • I walked past some paintings when we were coming in here.

  • And that is this person taking a great amount of risk and

  • presenting it to you.

  • And you get to say whether you like it or you don't like it.

  • And so you're either accepting or rejecting really something

  • that is this person's like greatest passion.

  • And, it's a big deal.

  • And I had to really come to grips with the fact that like

  • there's never been a book written that everyone loves.

  • I'm OK with the fact that some people hate the book and some

  • people love the book.

  • But, I've had to step back from it.

  • CHRISTINE: One of the craziest things that I think must have

  • happened to you--

  • this is from my perspective, of course-- but I understand

  • that Reese Witherspoon requested your book before it

  • was even published and then optioned it essentially before

  • it was out on the presses.

  • And so, now there's going to be a big screen movie of your

  • life, of an incredibly raw part of your life that is also

  • going to be made in Hollywood.

  • And letting go of that control must be something difficult to

  • contemplate?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Just last week, I read the script.

  • So, you're right.

  • About three months before "Wild" came out,

  • I got a film agent.

  • And in just all right in one day, the film agent said,

  • there are three women in Hollywood under the age of 40

  • who can get a movie made.

  • And they knew that the challenge of "Wild" is the

  • main character is a woman.

  • And there are a bunch of men in the book, but none of them

  • are really main characters.

  • And so that's already problematic.

  • Hollywood doesn't want to make a movie featuring a woman.

  • And so, right away my film agent said, so we need to find

  • an actress who feels passionately about the book

  • and will take it on as her project.

  • And she said, I just was chatting with Reese

  • Witherspoon, and she said she'd loved to read your book

  • over the weekend.

  • So this was a Friday.

  • Would you let Reese read it?

  • And I was like sure.

  • I mean, why not?

  • CHRISTINE: Yeah.

  • I guess.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: And so, and then I lit a candle--

  • which I don't necessarily believe that lighting a candle

  • has any actual impact on the world-- but I light a candle

  • and every time I passed it or looked at it I'd say, Reese.

  • And, I can't believe I'm telling you this actually.

  • I've only said this two times now.

  • This is the second time.

  • So, it's 'cause you guys gave me ice cream at lunch.

  • CHRISTINE: Really good ice cream.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: And so then Monday, my cell phone rang.

  • And it was my agent saying, Reese loves it and she wants

  • to option it and she wants to talk to you.

  • And so, Reese and I just had this hour long conversation

  • where she just told me everything she understood

  • about the book, everything she felt about the book.

  • And I could see right away that she got it, that she was

  • really deeply connected to the story I was telling.

  • And then she was sharing with me all parts of herself as an

  • artist, too, as an actress, what she could

  • bring to the story.

  • Because that's the deal is it is gonna be strange when I see

  • the movie and there's Reese and she's me.

  • But it's also I've had to let that go.

  • Because I wrote the book.

  • Nobody can change the book.

  • That was my creation.

  • The film isn't my creation.

  • And so Reese is gonna have to make it hers in order for it

  • to succeed.

  • I really think that anything that is made with artistic

  • intentions, it has to come from a core place.

  • It has to come from an authentic place.

  • And so she can't be trying to sort of mimic me in the course

  • of making the film.

  • So I have just great confidence in her.

  • I think she's really smart and really kind of--

  • and I've met her and had long conversations with her.

  • I couldn't be more thrilled.

  • And she hired--

  • I didn't want anything to do with the script, so she hired

  • Nick Hornby, the writer Nick Hornby--

  • CHRISTINE: [INAUDIBLE]

  • CHERYL STRAYED: --to write the script.

  • And so then I went to England in January for the "Wild"

  • launch there, and I hung out with Nick for several days.

  • And it was so strange 'cause I met him and he's been

  • obsessively thinking about me for like

  • the last three months.

  • He's like, Cheryl--

  • and it was just this--

  • CHRISTINE: So have I, just by the way.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Have you?

  • And we just had this really intense experience together.

  • And last week I read the script.

  • I was afraid to ask him for it because I was like, oh, what

  • if I don't like it?

  • He sent it to me, and it's really good.

  • It's great.

  • CHRISTINE: That's wonderful.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: So, the hope is that it'll

  • be shot this summer.

  • There are all these logistics that need to be worked out.

  • And who knows.

  • It's Hollywood.

  • You never know.

  • But, there are good things happening.

  • CHRISTINE: So when you play the game of who would play you

  • in a movie, did you ever think it would be Reese Witherspoon?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • I never did.

  • I never could think of an answer to that question.

  • CHRISTINE: Now you know.

  • You don't even have to--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Now I know.

  • It's really--

  • CHRISTINE: --play the game anymore.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Isn't that interesting?

  • Yeah.

  • So it'll be Reese.

  • CHRISTINE: Well, let's talk about the book a bit.

  • So, the book is about your memoir of

  • your hike up the PCT.

  • It's 1,000 miles, three months alone.

  • You were 26 at the time, right?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Um-um.

  • CHRISTINE: And, to me that's just a startling undertaking.

  • And I hear that lots of women are now being inspired to do

  • this by themselves.

  • But, one of the themes of the book, one of the things that

  • you're open and honest about, is that you were completely

  • ill prepared for it.

  • So, I guess one of the things that I think about is if you

  • were to do it again, would you have done it differently?

  • Would you have planned it differently?

  • Would you have thought it through?

  • Would you have gone with a group?

  • Are there things about the hike that you would have done

  • differently?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Well, I certainly would not have gone

  • with anyone.

  • I think that being alone was a really important piece of it.

  • And I still love to travel alone.

  • I love to do things alone.

  • You just exist in the world in a different way when you are

  • by yourself, whether you're a man or a woman.

  • And I do think that there's something about solitude,

  • especially in wild places, that you go

  • into a deeper solitude.

  • And also that when you're by yourself, you

  • have to rely on yourself.

  • You have to literally carry your own weight.

  • You are the beast of your own burden.

  • And I think that was an incredibly powerful thing for

  • me at that moment in my life.

  • I think it would be a powerful thing for me at any moment in

  • my life, but I think particularly then.

  • And as far as preparing, I mean one of things that's

  • interesting--

  • I've been really thinking about this 'cause this

  • question comes up a lot--

  • I did so much preparation before my hike.

  • I had to pack those boxes.

  • I had to dehydrate food.

  • I had to figure out these little Podunk stops along the

  • way and calculate how long it would take me to get them.

  • CHRISTINE: And there was no Google then.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: And there was no-- that's

  • what I was gonna say--

  • and there was no Google.

  • And, so I think a lot of times people say, oh, you were so

  • ill prepared.

  • They're forgetting the world of 1995.

  • I was on the PCT when somebody for the first time explained

  • to me what email was.

  • And I could not understand what she was saying.

  • And I remember saying, so you're sitting there at your

  • computer and then a letter appears on the screen?

  • And she was like, yeah, it's kind of like that.

  • And I was like, that seems totally weird.

  • The other thing is I was also on the PCT the first time I

  • heard of a cell phone.

  • So those of you who have read the book, the guy Albert who

  • was like this Eagle Scout who helps me lighten my load and

  • like finds the condoms and all that, this guy, he was like

  • Mr. Lightweight.

  • But he did have this huge brick of plastic with numbers

  • on the front.

  • And I said, what is this?

  • And he said it's a stupid thing that I have been

  • carrying now for 500 miles now, and I'm

  • gonna dump it here.

  • It's a thing called a cell phone.

  • And this company had found out-- that was like trying to

  • make these early cell phones-- had found out he was taking

  • the PCT and wanted him to carry it to see--

  • and he'd have to turn it on once a day to

  • see if he got reception.

  • And he'd never got reception.

  • And he's like, I'm not carrying this.

  • And I remember us sitting around this campfire and the

  • absolute consensus without any question was this is a product

  • that is never gonna fly because who would want to walk

  • around with a phone in their pocket all the time?

  • I mean, who would want--

  • I mean, right?

  • Which is so funny now, 'cause I'm like--

  • CHRISTINE: That's like 15 years ago we're talking about

  • at this point.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I know.

  • CHRISTINE: Like that's amazing.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I know.

  • That's what's so crazy about it.

  • So the world changed really quickly.

  • We could Google--

  • I mean, I swear I think I use Google like 500 times a day.

  • CHRISTINE: We all do.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: We all do.

  • We could have hundreds, maybe thousands of trail

  • journals, in a snap.

  • People now, they blog from the PCT.

  • I have tweeted on my iPhone from the PCT.

  • Different world then.

  • Like my communication with the world is if you wanted to get

  • in touch with me, you'd write a letter to a post office

  • where you thought I might be in a couple weeks and write

  • general delivery, Cheryl Strayed and the

  • town and the zip code.

  • CHRISTINE: Which is interesting because that's the

  • way that we would have communicated for hundreds of

  • years before--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Hundreds of year.

  • CHRISTINE: -that.

  • And in a mere 15, 16 years--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • CHRISTINE: --at this point, it's utterly changed.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: It's totally different.

  • And I remember, I bought that guidebook at

  • REI, the PCT guidebook.

  • And I went to the Minneapolis Public Library because I

  • wanted to read more about the PCT.

  • And they didn't have any other books about it.

  • And that was it.

  • That was the end of my research.

  • The piece of it that you're right about that I didn't

  • prepare physically.

  • I mean, I don't know,, drinking a lot, doing heroin,

  • sleeping with a lot of guys.

  • It's not really a great preparation for--

  • CHRISTINE: Not the best training.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: So I did that.

  • So that was a mistake.

  • I wouldn't recommend those things.

  • And I also just didn't know how hard it would be.

  • I had this idea of being in the wild.

  • And I had been a day hiker.

  • And I thought, well, it's kind of like that.

  • But it's not like that.

  • It was much harder and much more remote than I

  • thought it would be.

  • But having said that, I don't think I would do anything

  • differently.

  • I would get better boots that fit.

  • And I would take fewer things.

  • But I'm glad in retrospect that I had exactly the

  • experience I did because I'd learned the hard way, and all

  • the best things I've learned the hard way.

  • Because the thing about that is you never forget then.

  • And, I think I needed to have a sort of reckoning.

  • And, I suffered the consequences of all of my

  • decisions on the trail.

  • And that was an incredibly--

  • CHRISTINE: In a very, very--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: --empowering experience, in a really

  • physical way.

  • CHRISTINE: Right.

  • I guess I've heard you say in other forums that putting

  • yourself through the physical pain sort of helped you cope

  • with the emotional pain.

  • And, I don't know what the question is here, but that's

  • very, I think, powerful.

  • And to understand that, I mean, I think that's something

  • I do in my life is that you focus on something else so

  • that the other things can process behind you.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • CHRISTINE: Which is cool.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I think that that's true.

  • I think, too, one of the things I maybe didn't

  • consciously realize at the time is that I was creating my

  • own rite of passage.

  • We don't really have this in our culture.

  • And we all know--

  • I mean, some of you in the room are in your 20s, but

  • those of you who have gone beyond those years know that

  • even if things had been going really well for me, even if

  • I'd had like a great father and a mom who didn't die at 45

  • of cancer, all of these different things that sort of

  • combined to get me at that place in my life of despair

  • that I was at, I would still have had to

  • figure out who I was.

  • And I would still would have had to figure out what path I

  • was gonna take and also how to survive and

  • thrive on that path.

  • Because I was choosing a path of the writer, which can be

  • seen sort of as an illegitimate path for quite a

  • number of years.

  • I was a waitress, and I'd say, well, I'm a waitress but I'm

  • really a writer.

  • And people, they scoff at that or they roll their eyes or

  • they're when are you gonna get a real job, all of that stuff

  • you have to endure when you have taken that other path.

  • And so I needed to go through some sort of rite that would

  • take me to that next place of growing up.

  • And I needed to heal.

  • I needed to heal all of that stuff that you mentioned.

  • And so I think I didn't know quite what I was.

  • Like I said, I didn't know what I was getting into

  • physically.

  • But once I was out there, I realized it was very physical

  • and it was exactly what I needed.

  • I was suffering on the inside, and suddenly I forgot about

  • those things because I was suffering so much physically.

  • CHRISTINE: One of the things I think that's really

  • interesting about this book that I've realized only in

  • retrospect and when you talk about the rite of passage it

  • brings it up to me is that I think your memoir is very much

  • sort of a female archetype story, like sort of a feminine

  • superhero in some ways.

  • I mean, you did this rite of passage.

  • You were doing it on your own.

  • And you're sort of creating your own archetype or tapping

  • into an architect that isn't necessarily out there for a

  • female archetype.

  • It's something that you see in a lot of male role models.

  • And that's more what you touch on in popular culture.

  • But, you were doing this as a woman, and there wasn't a lot

  • out there that time.

  • And so I think to me it's interesting that you--

  • I guess my question to you is did you consciously write with

  • that archetype in mind?

  • Because to me this is also just your story.

  • And this is just something that you did.

  • But at the same time you are tapping into those themes.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • I teach memoir writing sometimes.

  • A lot of people, when they first began to write creative

  • nonfiction or memoir, stories from their lives, they'll come

  • to me and say, well, you know my son died or I spent a year

  • in France or I climbed Mount Kilimanjaro after surviving

  • breast cancer, whatever story they have.

  • And they're impulse is to write that story because they

  • had the experience and the experience was dramatic or

  • traumatic or adventuresome or whatever, any of those things.

  • And I always say, the experience isn't enough.

  • We've all had traumas and dramas and adventures.

  • And there's a difference between having a great dinner

  • party conversation about an experience you had and writing

  • a great book or writing a great essay.

  • And the difference is the consciousness you bring to

  • bear on it.

  • Well, first of all it's the writing craft.

  • You have to actually know how to write sentences that people

  • want to read.

  • But then--

  • CHRISTINE: Which you do really, really well.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Oh, thank you.

  • But then, what consciousness are you bringing to bear?

  • What awareness?

  • What does this thing mean?

  • For years, I didn't write about my hike on the PCT

  • because I had nothing to say really about it.

  • If I met you, we could talk about it and it would be a

  • nice conversation.

  • But until I really had something to say in the realm

  • of art which is, I think, is a bigger undertaking.

  • What did my hike really mean to me?

  • And what can it possibly mean to you?

  • And if you're ever reading a book and you're thinking,

  • well, why the hell am I reading about this woman's

  • dad's death, I think that writer hasn't

  • really done her job.

  • Because, I think when you read personal stories that do that

  • thing where they transcend--

  • which means to move from one realm to the other, to move

  • from me to you--

  • is that they've obliterated that question in your mind

  • because you recognize yourself in the work, even if the life

  • you're reading about is profoundly

  • different than your own.

  • And so, lot of times people say, well, you took the hike

  • in '95 and the book didn't get published in 2012.

  • Why did you wait?

  • And the answer is I did not wait.

  • I wrote the book as soon as it was time to write the book.

  • And, I didn't write the book 'cause I took a hike.

  • A lot of people have taken longer, better hikes than me.

  • I wrote the book because I'm a writer.

  • I wrote the book because I finally realized I'd reached a

  • place in my own life that I understood that I could

  • actually tell this story in a way that had a consciousness

  • of those layers that we're talking about.

  • Which brings me to your question about

  • the heroine's journey.

  • And I did.

  • I wrote with great consciousness and awareness of

  • the long tradition of the hero's journey.

  • And it's almost always been male.

  • But I decided that I was part of that, too.

  • I didn't write a book for women.

  • I wrote a book for people.

  • And I wanted my stories to resonate with

  • both men and women.

  • And so I just decided to essentially look at those kind

  • of deep mythologies of somebody who goes off into the

  • darkness, off into the wild darkness, has to slay a bunch

  • of demons and dragons and then returns different, changed.

  • And so, when I was able to think about my own journey

  • within that context, I was able to write "Wild." It

  • wasn't like I sat down and said, well, I'm gonna tell the

  • hero's journey.

  • But it was in the cells of my creative mind when I was

  • writing the book.

  • I was aware of it.

  • I was aware of basically the woman versus nature, the

  • hero's journey, all of those different elements of the

  • story that are there.

  • CHRISTINE: One aspect I think of the hero's journey that is

  • common to literature is that some event has to kick it off,

  • something has to create it.

  • And it's all part of the mythology.

  • One thing that stood out to me when I read this book with my

  • book club was the figure of your mother, who obviously is

  • an amazing woman.

  • But you have a passage, like near the very end, of two

  • pages of minor faults of your mom.

  • And other than that, it's almost all glowing praise.

  • And I wonder if you feel that by writing this you've sort of

  • mythologized your mother or changed her

  • character in some way?

  • I don't know.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: That's a great question.

  • So for those of you who haven't read the book, what

  • she's referring to is there's this time a couple months into

  • my hike when I realize it's my mom's 50th birthday.

  • And, I'm furious.

  • My mom's been dead like 4.5 years at this point.

  • And I'm furious with my mom for the first time because she

  • doesn't get to turn 50.

  • And, as I'm hiking--

  • and I did this in my journal, too--

  • this mother who was so beloved to me and so--

  • I did idolize her and mythologized her.

  • I loved her so fiercely that to even think one negative

  • thought hurt my heart.

  • But on this day for whatever reason, I'd reached a place

  • where I finally could be mad at my mom.

  • And I listed everything that she had

  • done wrong in my childhood.

  • I listed all of the things that I didn't like about her

  • or that I think that she shouldn't have done or she

  • should have done better.

  • And, I think that was a really important thing for me

  • personally in my life.

  • My mom died at this--

  • I was a senior in college.

  • I was at this moment in my life where I had

  • full license really.

  • It was developmentally appropriate for me to be kind

  • of rejecting my mom or angry with my mom or assessing her

  • with a critical eye.

  • And she died in the middle of that.

  • And so I was robbed of that experience.

  • And so I think what happened was I was doing it then.

  • But when I was writing "Wild" all those years later when I

  • had completely forgiven my mother everything, it was so

  • painful for me to write that chapter because I thought,

  • well, I can't possibly keep this in the book because I

  • don't want you all to hate my mom-- oh, my mom smoked pot in

  • front of me sometimes-- and that I didn't want to be

  • judgmental or whatever it was.

  • And then my editor said, no, you really need to keep this

  • in here because it's important.

  • It actually makes us love your mom more

  • because she's human then.

  • She's not a myth.

  • So, I don't think I've idolized my mom in my work.

  • I did have an incredibly good mom.

  • My mother was a really powerfully loving person.

  • And she did mothering really well.

  • My brother and sister would say the same thing.

  • My brother and sister have very different lives than me,

  • but we all always knew that we were really loved by our mom.

  • And I think that that's probably

  • what matters the most.

  • But she was human.

  • And she did all these things that were

  • probably mistakes, too.

  • And I think that more than anything, that's been the

  • strange experience around my mom is how many people now are

  • aware of my mom.

  • My mom who was not remotely a public or

  • famous person at all.

  • She was just like a very ordinary person who had a very

  • ordinary life.

  • Thousands of people know her now.

  • CHRISTINE: It's great.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Isn't that crazy?

  • CHRISTINE: That's an amazing thing.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I mean, really in some ways it's like I

  • brought my mom back to life through my work.

  • Like the one thing I want the most is my mom.

  • And I've made her like live again in my

  • work over and over.

  • CHRISTINE: Well, I think including the passage on the

  • faults I think your editor was absolutely right because other

  • than that she would have just been a

  • different type of archetype.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: A saint.

  • CHRISTINE: Yeah, a saint or the other role in the sort of

  • hero's journey, something that--

  • a saint, you know, something--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Right.

  • CHRISTINE: --you can't really relate to.

  • And by putting in those faults that, frankly, I read them and

  • I was like minor.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I know.

  • CHRISTINE: But--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Me too.

  • But what's funny about the minor faults-- but don't you

  • remember when you're like in your early 20s and you're like

  • even the little things you can hold against your parents.

  • CHRISTINE: Oh.

  • That's what parents are for, right?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: That's what parents are for.

  • And so, I didn't have parents from that age on.

  • And so I have no one to blame for any of my shit.

  • CHRISTINE: It's all on you.

  • God.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: It was all on me.

  • Yeah, yeah.

  • CHRISTINE: And literally, like with monster, your backpack,

  • the backpack that you carry is something like 75 pounds.

  • Did you ever weigh it?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I didn't.

  • The one thing I didn't bring out there with me is a scale.

  • I brought everything else.

  • But some newspaper just decided--

  • I read a story recently, they said it was like 50 pounds.

  • It wasn't 50 pounds.

  • I could totally lift 50 pounds.

  • It was really heavy.

  • I couldn't lift it at all the first--

  • I mean, I couldn't lift it.

  • Literally, I mean I had to get it on my back, but--

  • CHRISTINE: I grew up backpacking with my dad.

  • And I read you packing it in the beginning and I--

  • oh no, no.

  • You don't need that.

  • You don't need that.

  • It just sounded so painful, so.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • I would say it was at least 75.

  • Just the first day alone, just the water, was 24.5 pounds.

  • OK.

  • So that was just the water.

  • And, 'cause I started my hike in the Mojave Desert.

  • And I'm from Minnesota-- so here's maybe lack of

  • preparation--

  • and I'm like, you know, there are lakes everywhere, right?

  • I mean, I'm from the land of 10,000 lakes.

  • Turns out, Mojave Desert, hardly any lakes.

  • CHRISTINE: Yeah.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: And--

  • CHRISTINE: It's weird about deserts.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • It's a really funny thing.

  • Well, and I write about this in "Wild", too, the way I

  • didn't really understand what a mountain was and what a

  • desert was.

  • And I think you can even live here maybe and not totally

  • understand.

  • You have a different understanding of the world

  • when you are on foot.

  • One of the things that would always happen to any of the

  • backpackers if we would run into people who would be

  • driving past in a car and you ask them ever for like

  • directions to anything, they would always say, oh, it's

  • just right down the road.

  • It's just right there.

  • And then they'd drive away.

  • And you'd be like walking for 10 miles to this thing.

  • And your perspective's different when you're in a car

  • then when you're on foot.

  • And when your on foot, you actually see the world.

  • I mean, you really see in a very close up

  • fashion what it is.

  • And so that was a really

  • fascinating part of the journey.

  • CHRISTINE: One of the things that I think is another

  • consistent theme in the book is how much kindness and just

  • help you get strangers.

  • Was that something that you would have expected?

  • And what do you think it is that caused

  • people to be so kind?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: It's really a huge part of trail culture.

  • And it's true across any long trail.

  • And I know this because I've experienced it many times, but

  • also all of the different backpackers who have read

  • "Wild" say that's exactly how it is out there.

  • And I think is that when you're out there doing this

  • thing and you meet other people who are doing this

  • thing, you're in it together.

  • And there's this wonderful--

  • it doesn't matter if you like have different religious

  • beliefs or political beliefs or totally different lives

  • back home, there's this sort of kinship and energy about

  • being in this together.

  • And also, you're the only game in town.

  • Like if you need help and I'm the only one there to give it

  • you to, I'm gonna give it to you, and vice versa.

  • And so that happened over and over.

  • And it really is a wonderful experience.

  • If your faith in humanity ever flags, just get a

  • backpack and go hiking.

  • I promise you, you will be met with kindness.

  • Unless you do meet the one serial killer, I mean.

  • CHRISTINE: Well, I was always expecting that.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • Except once in awhile.

  • I mean, that's the other thing people always say, well, the

  • fear thing.

  • CHRISTINE: Especially as a woman.

  • I think that's--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: As a women.

  • CHRISTINE: --pretty remarkable that--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Right.

  • CHRISTINE: Well, your motto on the trail was--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I am not afraid.

  • CHRISTINE: I am not afraid.

  • I am not afraid.

  • And do you think that was specifically because

  • you're a woman or--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yes.

  • CHRISTINE: What was it?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yes.

  • Absolutely.

  • Though a lot of men would be afraid to go sleep in the

  • wilderness, too.

  • But, I was plugged into everything we're all plugged

  • into in terms of the narrative about violence against women.

  • And I mean, those things are true.

  • But what I decided to really rely upon was reason.

  • And that is, it would be more dangerous for me to live in

  • Portland or Minneapolis that summer than it would be for me

  • to go walk a wilderness trail.

  • You know, the chances were--

  • just like any of us right now, I mean, chances are nothing

  • bad is going to happen to us today, but something might.

  • And it doesn't always have to do with where you are.

  • You could be in the wrong parking lot

  • in the wrong apartment.

  • You could be on the wrong trail at the wrong moment.

  • And I don't mean to make light of it.

  • I mean certainly people have had bad things happen to them

  • all over the place.

  • But what I just decided to do was say, look, was I gonna let

  • this tiny little chance of something bad happening to me

  • stop me from doing this incredible thing?

  • And the answer was no.

  • And so then what I had to do is just manage my inner voice.

  • I think so much of life is managing your inner voice.

  • And I had to say, OK, when that voice says, well,

  • something bad is gonna happen, I would just

  • say, no, I'm not afraid.

  • I'm gonna do this.

  • And it was really helpful.

  • It kept me going.

  • CHRISTINE: It's the mantra, you know.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: That's right.

  • And no harm came to me.

  • No harm came to me.

  • CHRISTINE: It's like chanting Reese at your candle.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: That's right.

  • Reese.

  • I didn't chant Oprah.

  • I didn't even dream of Oprah.

  • CHRISTINE: How could you dream of Oprah?

  • And one of the things I saw--

  • so, Oprah revived her book club just for "Wild."

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • CHRISTINE: And I saw it in another interview that you

  • just picked up your cell phone one day--

  • your cell phone that--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: It's a pretty hot cell phone

  • I have there with--

  • CHRISTINE: And you answered and it's,

  • hello, this is Oprah.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • CHRISTINE: It's quite an experience.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: It's true.

  • It was an experience.

  • CHRISTINE: And I can't imagine that the person that you were

  • at 26 walking the trail, I can't imagine would have had

  • even the possible inkling that that could have happened on

  • the other end.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: None of this is--

  • Yeah.

  • It's really nutty.

  • So my cell phone rang, and I think a lot of times-- and I

  • thought this, too, before this happened to me, that there was

  • this whole sort of marketing wizard committee who tells

  • Oprah what book she's gonna pick.

  • And, the reverse is true.

  • I mean the only person--

  • the only two people who knew that Oprah was gonna revive

  • her book club for a little period of time

  • there was me and Oprah.

  • Oprah got my book just on her own.

  • Read my book.

  • Loved it.

  • Asked the editor of O magazine who she knew had interviewed

  • me for a piece about "Wild", 'cause "Wild" kind of came out

  • like the month before.

  • And she said will you give me Cheryl Strayed's phone number.

  • And the editor said sure.

  • And Oprah called me.

  • And, we just had this great talk about the book, when I

  • wasn't shrieking and saying things like, are you fucking

  • kidding me?

  • I said fuck to Oprah.

  • And then she's like, I have this idea.

  • I just want everyone to read it.

  • How about I restart the book club.

  • I was like OK.

  • CHRISTINE: If you insist.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: And we got off the phone.

  • And she said, well, now my people are gonna call your

  • people and we'll work all this out.

  • But you have to not tell anyone until everything's

  • worked out and I make the announcement.

  • And so she was like, will you come to my house this week?

  • I said sure.

  • So we shot this thing.

  • But she said but you have to keep it a secret until I

  • announce it.

  • So there were like seven weeks where I knew and my husband

  • knew, but I couldn't tell anyone.

  • And it was just terrible, because also--

  • meanwhile, "Wild," I was on my book tour and meeting people.

  • And everyone kept going, you know, Oprah would

  • really like this book.

  • I'd be like, you think so?

  • And I had to like pretend.

  • And it got the point where I was getting so like waiting

  • for this news to come out that even every time I thought the

  • word Oprah--

  • and especially because my editor and all the people at

  • my publishing house were like, you cannot say anything to

  • anyone 'cause if this comes out, the whole

  • thing could go away--

  • and so it got to the point were every time I even thought

  • the word Oprah just silently in my head, I felt like a

  • sniper was gonna shoot me, you know.

  • And I couldn't even tell my kids because I knew if they

  • said the word Oprah, everyone knows who Oprah is.

  • But I did have this funny Oprah thing in January.

  • I just got on a plane.

  • I was flying to Santa Barbara.

  • And she lives there.

  • And I was gonna talk that night.

  • So I text her and said you know I'm gonna be--

  • CHRISTINE: You text Oprah?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: We do.

  • Oprah is really sweet.

  • She's very texty.

  • And anyway--

  • I said, hey, I'll be in Santa Barbara tonight.

  • If you want to come to my talk, let me know.

  • She texted me.

  • And I'm sitting on the runway on this plane right before

  • they're saying turn off your cell phones.

  • And she texted me back and says I'm in Texas.

  • I'm about to interview Lance Armstrong.

  • So I can't be there.

  • And I was like, I'm asking her about this.

  • And the flight attendant comes by to tell me to turn off my

  • cell phone just as a text from Oprah comes in.

  • And her name is like Oprah on my cell phone.

  • And the flight attendants says, wouldn't that be funny

  • if it were the real Oprah?

  • And I was kind of like, what makes you assume it isn't?

  • But, no.

  • I just laughed and said, yeah, it would be totally hilarious.

  • Oprah's really exact- she's so sweet.

  • Have you guys ever had Oprah come to a Google Talk?

  • CHRISTINE: Maybe we should.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: You could lure her with a nice lunch.

  • CHRISTINE: There we go.

  • Well, so one of the things that happened to you over the

  • last couple of years is the explosion of fame, basically.

  • And you've become this household name.

  • You've had these associations with all these interesting

  • famous people.

  • And my question for you is how you manage to maintain the

  • boundaries between your life and the way that all of these

  • other people want something from you now, both the outside

  • world in terms of publicity and excitement and just people

  • that I would imagine crop up in every dark corner seeking

  • your incredible advice at this point?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I think that that's an answer I'm still

  • trying to figure out.

  • I mean, essentially this past year or so has been like

  • holding on really hard to a very fast rocket ship.

  • And my husband and I have two kids who are seven and eight.

  • And in so many real ways-- people are like how is your

  • life different?

  • In so many real ways essentially that like the

  • things that are actually very important in my life--

  • what I think of makes up the heart of my life, my family

  • and just that my three cats and my two kids and my husband

  • and that daily thrum--

  • is very much the same except it's been disrupted by me

  • traveling so much.

  • But it's true that now I do.

  • I occupy like a different space

  • professionally than I ever have.

  • And on top of that, the work I do causes people to feel

  • really connected to me personally.

  • CHRISTINE: Or maybe even entitled that they know you, I

  • guess, because you are so raw in your writing.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: And that's a beautiful thing.

  • I mean, it's allowed me to really feel connected to other

  • people, too.

  • I was saying earlier that I just feel that so many people

  • have experienced the book and then like come to me with

  • really open hearts and shared profound stories with me.

  • I don't think there's ever been--

  • I know there hasn't been a day in the last year that I

  • haven't received countless emails that really tell me

  • just the most beautiful stories about people's lives.

  • And I feel so grateful for that and so lucky about that.

  • And yet, yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to--

  • I can't give that much every day.

  • One of the places I have to go to as a writer where the

  • energy lives is in solitude, in blocking out the world.

  • And so, I'm thinking I'll move into that space this summer.

  • I'm hoping to kind of pull back from some

  • of this public stuff.

  • But I really think it's any of the big changes in my life--

  • my mother's death, the birth of my children,

  • and then this success--

  • I would say that those were times where my life just

  • shifted pretty seismically.

  • It took some time for me to figure out what it even was,

  • what it even meant.

  • And so I guess I'll find out down the road.

  • CHRISTINE: Get your footing eventually.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Or down the trail.

  • CHRISTINE: Right.

  • Down the trail.

  • Up the trail.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Up the trail.

  • Yeah.

  • Are we gonna answer some questions?

  • CHRISTINE: I think we are supposed to.

  • And I think we were supposed to start those

  • five minutes ago.

  • So.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: OK Who has questions?

  • My feet are OK.

  • My siblings are OK.

  • My ex-husband did not object to the book.

  • He loved it.

  • Those are some common questions I get.

  • AUDIENCE: Hi Cheryl.

  • I'm Heather.

  • I love all your work.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Thank you.

  • AUDIENCE: I have so many questions, but I'm gonna

  • narrow it down to two.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: OK.

  • AUDIENCE: One is what is the best piece of writing advice

  • you've ever gotten?

  • And the second one is after writing "Wild," have you

  • connected with a lot of the characters whom

  • you met on the trail?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yes.

  • So, I'll answer the first first, or the second first.

  • Pretty much everyone in the book has

  • come out of the woodwork.

  • I've had so many fun experiences with people who I

  • wrote about in the book who show up.

  • I'll look out and they're in the audience.

  • And some of those people I had actually connected with them

  • when I was writing the book.

  • But because--

  • that's the other thing-- so because I met these people

  • before really the age of the internet--

  • I know the internet was around then, but only

  • Al Gore was on it--

  • but--

  • were any of you on the internet in 1995?

  • Probably you guys were.

  • You're like--

  • I wasn't.

  • You were different, but-- and you still are different.

  • But it wasn't like we exchanged email addresses.

  • Nobody had an email address.

  • And so if your name was Roger Smith, I was never

  • gonna find you again.

  • And so some people I could find them when I googled them.

  • I could track down people while I was writing the book.

  • And I would always ask them their memories of when we met,

  • and also if in the book they wanted me to use their real

  • name or change their name.

  • And different people said different things.

  • But, yeah.

  • So it's been really fun to reconnect.

  • One of the funnest experiences, I did an event in

  • LA last summer.

  • And there was an elderly gentleman in the front row.

  • And every time I looked up, he kept sort of making a funny

  • face at me.

  • And so finally I just stopped in the middle of the action,

  • and I was like what do you want?

  • And he said, Cheryl, it's Ed.

  • And it was Ed who was the trailing angel at Kennedy

  • Meadows, one of the first guys I meet.

  • And he feeds me at his encampment.

  • And it was there that I also lightened my load and went

  • through my pack and got rid of a bunch of stuff.

  • So Ed in LA last summer, he opens up his bag and he pulls

  • out my foldable saw that I had taken with me on the PCT and

  • left, and he took it.

  • And he's like, every time I see this saw, I think of you.

  • And now it's like famous because I wrote about it in

  • "Wild."

  • So he gives it to me.

  • And I realized that I was on my book tour and

  • just doing carry on.

  • TSA won't let you take a saw.

  • So I had to give it back to him.

  • But it was so funny.

  • It's probably now for sale on eBay or something.

  • But, so that was fun.

  • And I connected with all kinds of other people.

  • And the best piece of writing advice, I think that one of

  • the things that is really true about being a

  • writer is it's hard.

  • It's hard like all the time.

  • Like when I sit down to write the next book,

  • it's gonna be hard.

  • And it was hard for me when I was 22.

  • And it was hard for me when I was 32.

  • And it's gonna be hard for me when I'm 72.

  • It's always this incredible sort of vulnerable,

  • scary leap of faith.

  • Am I gonna write something that you're all

  • gonna want to read?

  • And how can I even guess that?

  • I don't know.

  • I can only forge ahead.

  • And so, I think that especially early on--

  • now I've gotten all these rewards and praise, I can kind

  • of ride on the steam of that.

  • But back there--

  • imagine me back there in my 20s and early 30s when a lot

  • of the feedback was when are you gonna get a real job?

  • And what if it doesn't work?

  • And then I look up and I'm 40 and I've been working as a

  • waitress and trying this writing thing.

  • What if it doesn't work out?

  • And that's what I mean when I was saying I had to redefine

  • what success was in order to have success.

  • And, one of things I did last fall--

  • have any of you heard of the Do Lectures?

  • You should go to the Do Lectures sometime.

  • It's like the hippie Ted Talks.

  • But it's in Mendocino County on this beautiful vineyard and

  • say in tee pees.

  • You sign up for this weekend.

  • And, it's just this amazing thing.

  • You just like drink wine and eat amazing food, and then all

  • day sit around listening to these speakers.

  • And they're speakers from all walks of life, CEOs of

  • companies, people like me, chiefs of

  • Native American tribes.

  • And they stand up and they tell their story.

  • They have like 20 minutes to tell their story.

  • So they asked me to come.

  • And I sat there listening.

  • I was the final speaker.

  • And so it was two days of talks, lectures.

  • And I sat there and listened to everyone's lecture.

  • A woman who founded an orphanage in Nepal.

  • I mean really.

  • All the people--

  • a guy who makes these fancy shoes.

  • The guy from Blue something Coffee in San Francisco.

  • The founder of --

  • AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • And they all tell their story.

  • And they're all incredibly successful people.

  • And the whole story was like a path of their failures.

  • And that was so fascinating to me because all of their

  • successes were built on a string of failures from which

  • they decided to learn from them.

  • And instead of giving up on that thing then, they either

  • worked harder or they took a different path.

  • But they used their failures as successes.

  • And I think that that's what a career in the

  • arts looks like, too.

  • And so my best advice is to keep the faith and stick with

  • it and just surrender, surrender to the idea that you

  • don't know what the outcome's gonna be.

  • You don't know.

  • And so what you need to keep faith with is the thing that

  • you control, which is how much heart you give something, how

  • much effort you give something, how

  • much work you commit.

  • AUDIENCE: Hi.

  • I was really excited to see the email

  • that you were coming.

  • I just saw that on Monday on the food discussion.

  • I don't know how I ended up on the food one but.

  • I'm actually leaving Google on Friday to hike the PCT this

  • year with my boyfriend.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Oh, really?

  • AUDIENCE: Yeah.

  • So it was like perfect timing, you're here 'cause--

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Oh my gosh.

  • --I only have three days left.

  • My one question for you is I have only gotten to the part

  • of the book where you were in [INAUDIBLE]

  • Meadows and the boy scout dad had to leave

  • with Giardia or something.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Right, right.

  • Yeah.

  • AUDIENCE: But, I know there was a moment before that where

  • you felt like quitting and somehow you kind

  • of persevered so.

  • And I'm afraid of the unknown.

  • I know this is gonna be really tough.

  • My backpack is not gonna be a monster, think goodness.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: That'll make a big difference.

  • And you're going, did you say, with your boyfriend?

  • AUDIENCE: Yeah.

  • This has been his passion and I kind of got sucked into it.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Men are superb pack animals.

  • This is-- yes.

  • AUDIENCE: So my question is at those times when you felt like

  • really quitting, how did you get past that so you could

  • keep moving? 'Cause I think I'm mentally tough, but I

  • don't even know what I'm getting myself into yet, and

  • I'm terrified.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • Well, I will say that the three hardest things that I've

  • ever done, I would say, hiking the PCT, giving birth

  • naturally to my two children, and writing books.

  • And all of those things at many, many, many steps along

  • the way I felt like quitting.

  • And so I think it might be helpful to just go in knowing

  • that you are going to feel like quitting at certain

  • points and just talking to yourself ahead of time and

  • saying, well, but I'm not going to quit.

  • And also just to acknowledge that misery

  • is part of the deal.

  • You don't go on a long backpacking trip and then have

  • it be every day feels good.

  • Sometimes it's gonna be searingly hot or terribly cold

  • or raining or you're gonna want some real food and all

  • you've got is dehydrated beans, or any number of

  • things-- your feet are hurting.

  • And so that's going to be part of it.

  • It's kind of like--

  • and the reason I compare it to birth is my friend just gave

  • birth and she said, it was so much harder

  • than anyone told me.

  • And I was like, well, you should have asked me because I

  • would have told you.

  • If you go in going, well, I'm gonna try not to--

  • I'm gonna maybe-- it's like, well, no.

  • You've got to be like determined because it's going

  • to be really hard.

  • And same with writing a book.

  • It's like you're going to want to stop writing your book.

  • And so you have to make room for that.

  • Don't enter into the journey as if it's going to be always

  • like sunshine and you're singing what a beautiful

  • morning with your boyfriend and eating Cliff bars.

  • And then the times when it's not miserable, it's gonna be

  • so profoundly magnificent that you are gonna feel like the

  • luckiest person ever.

  • And I don't even know you, but I'm pretty sure that this will

  • be one of the best things you've ever done.

  • AUDIENCE: This kind of memoir especially, what it's like to

  • be in your 40s and look back at yourself when you're in the

  • 20s and at that time.

  • I think I would have so much empathy for

  • myself at the point.

  • And I remember reading your book thinking about like you'd

  • open your box and there'd be like $20.

  • And I'm like, no.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I know.

  • AUDIENCE: I remember 20 like thinking-- or in my mid-20s--

  • thinking, OK, I can get by.

  • It's OK.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Right.

  • AUDIENCE: Like, what do you think of your 20-year-old self

  • when you look back?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: I think that's such a great question.

  • And somebody pointed this out to me pretty early on which I

  • think is accurate.

  • He said that he loved that I wrote about myself on one hand

  • in a very--

  • I didn't let myself off.

  • Like, I totally revealed negative things as well as

  • positive things.

  • But I also wrote with a lot of compassion and love for my

  • younger self.

  • And I think that it was because the older me was

  • looking back at that younger me.

  • And I could see from a long way away very clearly some of

  • the mistakes I made.

  • But I also could for the first time figure out like well why

  • did I do that thing?

  • Like one of the things that was clearly a bad idea, for

  • example, was using heroin, like just a really bad idea.

  • Don't do it, kids.

  • But I understand why I did it actually.

  • Like the older me could actually say I understand how

  • it made sense within the context of that

  • moment of my life.

  • I was young and in pain.

  • And I was looking for something to take

  • me away from that.

  • I was looking for attention.

  • That's something I would've never admitted in my 20s, but

  • I totally was.

  • It was like a cry for help.

  • So I'll just do something really bad and dramatic so the

  • people who love me will notice and help me.

  • And that's exactly what they did.

  • My husband, my ex-husband, helped me.

  • My friends helped me.

  • And, it doesn't make sense, but it's like what I did.

  • And so I could look back on it now with this perspective and

  • say, well, you know you dumb kid, but it's OK.

  • And so I sort of wrote it from that perspective.

  • And I also just shook my head a lot and just

  • thought what an idiot.

  • And also so many of the things that I--

  • there are all these pages and pages in my journal of just

  • how sure I am at the age of 26 that nobody will ever love me

  • again, and I will never love again, that I'm

  • just a ruined woman.

  • Which is so silly, but I do remember

  • feeling that way at 26.

  • And I was like who gets divorced at 26?

  • And what's so funny now in my role as Dear Sugar, I have so

  • many letters from people in their 20s who have had that

  • first big break up.

  • And they're convinced it's over.

  • And I'm just like, it's only just begun, honey.

  • I couldn't see that then.

  • So I see that now.

  • So it was just I got to look back at myself from a wiser

  • and more loving--

  • like as if I were my own mother.

  • It's always interesting to me that some of the haters--

  • you can Google them--

  • this one guy wrote, Cheryl Strayed is essentially a

  • mental cripple and a slut.

  • I mean that's actually a quote.

  • If you Google mental cripple and slut, I'm not kidding.

  • Google mental cripple and slut, it'll come to me, or to

  • this guy's blog post about me.

  • And one of the things that I find fascinating when people

  • criticize me about those things, I just think, my god,

  • were you never young?

  • Did you never make any mistakes?

  • Did you never sleep with the wrong person or 10 of them, or

  • whatever the case may be?

  • And I'm always amazed by that.

  • I think that's a lonely life, actually.

  • AUDIENCE: So, given all of your experience that you had,

  • going forward now that you have two kids, do you feel

  • like you're going to be the most forgiving, excepting,

  • loving, empathetic mom when your kids turn into teenagers

  • and then their 20s?

  • Or do you feel like, I don't know, I'm still a mom?

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Yeah.

  • Well, I'm just planning that my children will be perfect

  • and never make a mistake.

  • But, no, I'm teasing.

  • That is something that's really interesting.

  • I get asked a lot like what have you told your

  • kids about your book?

  • And, I've told them like the g-rated version of "Wild",

  • because they're seven and eight.

  • I mean, that's the version they should get.

  • But as they get older, what parts of my life will

  • I share with them?

  • Will I tell them about my experience

  • with drug use or whatnot?

  • And, I'm not exactly sure how my husband and I are gonna

  • approach that quite yet.

  • We're talking about that because it's like pretty soon.

  • We got to think about it.

  • That's right.

  • Well, they can.

  • I think that they won't.

  • I think my kids won't read the book until they're grown ups.

  • That's just my sense.

  • Just because I think a lot--

  • the kids of writers often like, OK,

  • that's just too much.

  • Like they don't want to get too involved.

  • But when they're older, they will.

  • But I think that what I hope to do , as I hope to always

  • bring into every relationship I have, and probably most

  • significantly into my relationship with my kids,

  • everything that I've learned and that I know along the way.

  • And I certainly hope that they don't have as traumatic a

  • teenage and early 20s years as I did.

  • But, I feel like I want to be there to support them no

  • matter what happens.

  • And one of things I want to say about that is I return to

  • my mom's love.

  • So even though I got sort of lost along the way and did

  • some things I regret, I do think that actually what saved

  • me was everything that my mother had given.

  • So that in some ways, even though my mother's death

  • caused me to go off course, it was my mother's life that

  • provided me with the confidence to get

  • myself back on course.

  • The primary thing-- and I wrote this in "Wild"-- the

  • primary failing that I felt acutely when I decided to hike

  • the PCT is that I had not become the woman my mother

  • raised me to be.

  • And so I was hearkening back to the values that I knew were

  • really my own, and also the deepest way of honoring my mom

  • would be to be that woman, to become that person.

  • And so I just had to find my way back to that person.

  • And so, I know that I love my kids in that same way.

  • And so I hope that will provide whatever foundation

  • they need when they're lost, because they probably will be

  • at some point, right.

  • Thank you so much for coming today.

  • CHRISTINE: Thank you.

  • CHERYL STRAYED: Thank you.

  • That was great.

  • CHRISTINE: Thank you.

CHRISTINE: Christine [INAUDIBLE].

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シェリル・ストレイド「ワイルド」|Googleで著者紹介 (Cheryl Strayed "Wild" | Authors at Google)

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    Hhart Budha に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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