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  • -Our next guest

  • is a "New York Times" best-selling author.

  • Her new book, "Hiding in Plain Sight,"

  • is available now.

  • Please welcome back to the show Sarah Kendzior.

  • How are you, Sarah?

  • -As well as can be expected. How are you?

  • -I'm good. I like that in your bookshelf

  • behind you, you're using it to very --

  • very smartly promote your new book.

  • -Oh, yes. Of course.

  • -Well, we were talking.

  • You obviously had a book tour planned.

  • You were actually gonna be on our show in the studio

  • back in -- I guess, in March.

  • So, how has it been having a book --

  • a new book out that obviously you worked on for years

  • and not being able to go out and promote it?

  • -I mean, I'm sad about it. I'm sad that I didn't get to,

  • you know, see my readers face-to-face.

  • But I'm mostly thinking about safety,

  • and I don't want to put anyone in that position.

  • And there's certainly people who are having a much harder time

  • in this economy and in this public-health crisis than me.

  • The book itself is about the danger of this administration

  • and the erosion of stable institutions,

  • not just in the present but over the last 40 years.

  • So, paradoxically, this is a good time

  • for the book to come out.

  • -So, I want to talk about the book, but real quick,

  • you recently tweeted the last time you were on the show,

  • and, again, it was nice that you got to see the other guests.

  • -Mm-hmm. -You were backstage.

  • You got to meet Ice-T.

  • And here is the photo that you tweeted.

  • And is it true that your mother --

  • Your mother has this framed? -Oh, yeah.

  • I gave it to her as a Mother's Day gift.

  • Because I sent it to her, and she loved it,

  • and then, you know, I surprised her.

  • She has it on her mantel.

  • Just like every baby boomer, huge Ice-T fan, "Law & Order."

  • Completely forgot that she confiscated

  • my "Body Count" cassette in like 1991.

  • So, you know...

  • -Well, it's a shame because, you know,

  • the first guest tonight was Ice Cube.

  • So I like that there's something thematic

  • about the times on your show.

  • -As long as this doesn't lead to Vanilla Ice

  • the third time around, then I'm all good with this trend, so...

  • -So, last time you were on, you were talking about

  • your book, "View from Flyover Country."

  • And it was a lot about, sort of --

  • You had studied autocratic regimes

  • and how they, you know,

  • have this way of sneaking up on people.

  • Exactly what is happening to the, you know,

  • systems they rely on.

  • When you obviously wrote this book,

  • you couldn't have imagined the moment we are in right now,

  • but it does sort of predict that if things don't change,

  • this is the sort of thing

  • we were gonna end up with, right?

  • -Yeah. I mean, I didn't predict

  • that I would be talking to you

  • during a plague from our self-quarantine,

  • but in terms of malice, in terms of kleptocracy,

  • in terms of the profound erosion of institutional stability

  • and social trust, this is what I expected

  • from the Trump administration.

  • Because we've had this kind of facetious, unearned reliance

  • on checks and balances that were never really there.

  • They were not applied at the start of his administration,

  • and he has spent the last four years annihilating them,

  • purging agencies, packing courts,

  • you know, basically stripping this country down

  • and selling it for parts.

  • And so, yeah, here we are.

  • -You point out that the media sometimes

  • will focus on Trump's ineptitude,

  • but you think the mistake there

  • is it ignores the more sinister side of it.

  • -Yes, absolutely. I think that the media,

  • as well as many people, are just comfortable

  • thinking of him as a buffoon

  • that stumbled into the presidency,

  • like it was an accident, but that's not true.

  • And as I lay out in the book,

  • he ran or nearly ran for president five times --

  • 1988, 1996, he ran in 2000,

  • he ran in 2012, he ran in 2016.

  • And one of his enduring strategies

  • has been to cover up his crime with scandal

  • and to cover up his malice with incompetence.

  • A lot of people are shocked by his reaction to the pandemic,

  • that we haven't had a national mourning,

  • that the flag hasn't even been lowered to commemorate

  • the victims and the people who tried to save them.

  • But that's completely in line with his character.

  • You know, when 9/11 happened, his first reaction was to say

  • it made his buildings look taller.

  • When the 2008 financial collapse happened,

  • he said that it was a good thing for him, that he would profit.

  • And back in 2014, he went on Fox News and said

  • that he wanted economic collapse,

  • and he wanted riots and violence in the street,

  • because that's what makes America great again.

  • -You don't hold back in your book

  • as far as, like, naming names. -No.

  • -And I think the way, a lot of times,

  • some journalists not only fear, you know,

  • the shutting down of access for projects they may do

  • in the future but also, you know, for personal safety.

  • Do you -- When you are specific

  • about people, do you ever -- do you ever fear for your safety

  • when you write? -I mean, of course.

  • Of course I fear for my safety.

  • And we've seen a lot of examples of this administration

  • and people connected to it threatening people.

  • You know, we just had an impeachment hearing

  • where the ambassador to Ukraine basically said

  • that Trump and his goon squad ordered a hit on her.

  • That's a huge deal,

  • and there's a long history of that kind of action.

  • You know, so, yeah, I worry about my safety.

  • But I'm more worried that the truth of this administration

  • and its history isn't being told.

  • And so that's what, you know,

  • I have chosen to do in this book and through my other work.

  • And I don't care about access.

  • You know, I live in Missouri.

  • I'm not worried about not being invited to a cocktail party

  • or whatever the hell people do in D.C.

  • And so that's never really been an issue for me.

  • And then, you know, perversely,

  • it gives me a certain kind of freedom.

-Our next guest

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サラ・ケンジオール氏がトランプ氏のスキャンダルと無能の戦略をブレークダウン (Sarah Kendzior Breaks Down Trump’s Strategy of Scandal and Incompetence)

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    林宜悉 に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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