Welcome to the daily homeroom live stream,

Sal here from Khan Academy.

For those of you all who are new to this,

this is a live stream that we've been doing every day

since we've had these global school closures.

Just as a way to stay connected.

Obviously Khan Academy, our whole team,

we were trying to pull out resources,

starting in early learning with Khan Academy kids

all the way through elementary, middle and high school

and even early college to keep you learning.

But we also want to provide more support.

So we've been running paired webinars, teacher webinars,

this homeroom live stream, where we're going to have

really interesting guests including,

today I'm especially excited about.

But I do want to give my a standard announcement

reminding folks that we are not for profit.

We only can exist because of philanthropic donations.

We were running at a deficit even before COVID hit.

And now with COVID, we're seeing our traffic,

three X of what it typically is.

We are trying to do more programs

and ways to support you.

So if you're in a position to do so,

please think about donating.

I want to give special thanks to several corporations

that have stepped up really in record time

to support this effort.

Bank of America, that first weekend when they saw

that we needed, they stepped up to help us out.

Google.org, AT&T, Fastly and Novartis, thank all of them.

And even with their significant support,

we still need more help.

So if you represent a corporation, please talk to us.

And if you're just an individual donor,

that still makes a huge, huge, huge difference,

for our ability to serve tens of millions of folks

around the world.

So with that, I am super excited to introduce our guest,

Angela Duckworth.

In certain circles, she is a mega star, I would say.

I've known Angela, for many years.

I think we ran into each other at a conference in Canada.

This was like eight, nine, or 10 years ago,

eight or nine years ago.

But, then I, even then I knew Angela was on onto something

and since then I think her notoriety has just exploded

because the things she talks about are so relevant

to education, I think, especially relevant

to the time that we're dealing with right now.

So, Angela, thank you for joining us.

- Thank you Sal, and I'm going to tell you a secret.

You didn't just run into me.

I actually flew to Canada because I knew

someone had told me that you were going to be

and I ran into you but not by accident.

So I was stalking you.

- We see, this is how the tables have turned

because now I kind of stalk you.

(laughing)

- You just email me.

It's a lot easier for you,

you didn't have to like fly to Canada.

- Exactly. I didn't.

So I'm glad that we are mutually stalking each other.

And I'm going to start off the conversation,

but I do want to encourage everyone who's watching

on YouTube and Facebook, put questions in there for Angela,

and you're going to learn a lot more about

her areas of expertise if you don't already know of them.

But I will start, Angela, you're known,

you're one of really a handful of, I would say, pioneers

or leaders in this field of mindset research.

And you're really known for grit.

Defining it in more precise terms.

So just, you know, explain what mindset research is

and your view on it, especially relative to grit.

- The term mindset has caught on.

I have to think that it's gotta be almost the,

maybe the most commonly understood new scientific discovery

in psychology and among non psychologists, right?

Among parents and kids and educators.

So what is mindset?

You know, mindsets are beliefs that you have about the world

or about human nature that drive so much of your behavior.

They may not be beliefs that you think about actively,

but they're very powerful.

And in particular Carol Dweck at Stanford,

our common friend and really my hero,

she's worked her whole life on something called

growth mindset.

Your beliefs about your intelligence.

And you can either have a growth mindset,

which is you know, the belief that intelligence

is malleable, that your abilities can change,

or you can have a fixed mindset, which is the belief

that they can't change that you know, you are who you are,

who you are.

You're either a math person or not,

you're a natural athlete or not.

And in my research on grit,

which is passionate and persevering effort

towards longterm goals, I find, and I think

our early work with Carol, but in subsequent studies also,

kids who have a growth mindset about intelligence

tend to become grittier.

And then those increases in grit tend to lead

to increases in growth mindset.

So there's a kind of virtuous cycle,

when a kid really believes that their abilities can change,

they're more likely to persevere, to try hard at things,

which then reinforces that belief.

- And just to make sure I understand these,

because I often say these in the same sentence

and they are very closely related to growth mindset is,

I believe that I can do more, I just have to

step out of my comfort zone and apply myself.

And if I fail at something, it's not a judgment

on some type of innate ability.

It's if it's a moment to learn from.

While grit is that ability to stick to it.

- Yeah, I would say grit, I mean grit is a behavior,

grit is like doing it right?

And mindset might be why you're doing it, right?

So mindset is like the underlying belief

that would motivate a certain pattern of behavior

that I would describe as grit.

And let me just say, because you know,

my kids are still teenagers and you know,

I'm sure a lot of people have kids who are

even younger than, than ours.

I think that it's not just, when I think of grit,

I don't think just of like working hard.

It's also loving what you do.

It's also being intrinsically motivated

over long periods of time.

So, that's just a part of grit that I hope, you know,

we can talk about in this conversation

because I don't want parents to get the message that like

the only thing kids need to do is develop a work ethic.

They also have developed interests, loves, passions.

- [Sal] Yeah, and that's, I think, a good segue.

I mean, you know, you're a professor of psychology

at University of Pennsylvania.

You've been doing research for a while.

You have a bestselling book named, not a surprise, Grit.

(laughing)

- Yeah. No imagination there in the title.

- No, it's the power of passion and perseverance.

I think, you know, a question that

a lot of parents are asking.

My wife asked me to ask you this when she saw that

I was walking into the walk-in closet

to interview you right now.

And it's a question that has been coming up

throughout the school closures,

is that there's a lot of resources out there.

There's Khan Academy, we've put out daily schedules.

But what is tangible advice for parents,

teachers, or students for themselves to have that grit?

To be able to act on that growth mindset, so to speak?

- So I think that, not only for grit but for

lots of other things that we would love our kids to develop

as they grow older, the combination of

challenge and support is magical.

And, if you ask the question like,

what are good parents, right?

Like what does the science of parenting say?

There's now decades of research on parenting styles

and the style of parenting that is the best, really.

I mean, I can just say that flat out like it's the best.

Your kids will be happier,

they'll be more socially adjusted,

but they'll also be more accomplished.

Like it's this combination of being very supportive

but also being demanding.

So you could say it's tough love.

Now why do I bring that up now

in the middle of the COVID crisis?

Because kids are being challenged.

So their challenges have been, I think in all cases

and in many different ways raised, right?

Now the question is like, how as parents can you meet that

with increased support?

Not trivial because we're under our own stress, et cetera.

But if you ask the question to me,

like where does psychological growth come from?

It comes from this combination of like,

I'm being asked to do something I can't yet do,

but there's a floor beneath me, there's a foundation,

there's unconditional support, there is Khan Academy there,

you know, there are people who will help me, you know,

like make a schedule so I can go on Khan Academy.

So I think parents can respond to this crisis

by in some ways, thinking of it as an opportunity

for their kids to develop these qualities.

I call them character strengths,

but you can call them SEL skills,

you can call them anything you want.

And I really do think it's not too Pollyanna

to say that it is an opportunity to do all those things.

- And what would you, I mean, one,

it's impressive that there is, I mean,

people have done the research and they've been able

to categorize different styles and this,

what you're describing seems to be the winning style on,

and I'm personally insecure to see how well I'm,

I don't know what audits--

- Give you a quiz.

- Give me a quiz or watch our family.

But what either from your or just as a parent

that you see good practice, I know y'all have done

a lot of research on interventions

that can help change people's mindsets.

So I mean, one, I'd love to hear about that research

and then are there things, let's say hypothetically

you were to have a five and a half year old at home

or an eight year old.

- For example.

- For example, I don't know.

Some people I know.

And you know, they sometimes do their work

but they're maybe just doing the minimum

or sometimes they don't even want to do that

because they feel like there's a little

less accountability now.

What does the research tell us and what advice

would you have for this hypothetical person that I know?

- Yeah. Well you know, I have a non hypothetical

17 and non hypothetical 18 year old,

but you know, long hypothetical five and a half year old

it sounds like on your end.

So I think one of the challenges of parenting

is to always be titrating to where your kids are.

Because when I said that you need to be,

and I do believe this, like you need to be

a demanding parent.

I don't think kids, I mean, kids need parents,

like they need us to ask them to do things

that they can't yet or wouldn't on their own do.

But the titration part is, you know, how much is a stretch

for your kid at this particular moment in time