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  • - Hi everyone.

  • Welcome to the daily homeroom live stream,

  • Sal here from Khan Academy.

  • For those of you all who are new to this,

  • this is a live stream that we've been doing every day

  • since we've had these global school closures.

  • Just as a way to stay connected.

  • Obviously Khan Academy, our whole team,

  • we were trying to pull out resources,

  • starting in early learning with Khan Academy kids

  • all the way through elementary, middle and high school

  • and even early college to keep you learning.

  • But we also want to provide more support.

  • So we've been running paired webinars, teacher webinars,

  • this homeroom live stream, where we're going to have

  • really interesting guests including,

  • today I'm especially excited about.

  • But I do want to give my a standard announcement

  • reminding folks that we are not for profit.

  • We only can exist because of philanthropic donations.

  • We were running at a deficit even before COVID hit.

  • And now with COVID, we're seeing our traffic,

  • three X of what it typically is.

  • We are trying to do more programs

  • and ways to support you.

  • So if you're in a position to do so,

  • please think about donating.

  • I want to give special thanks to several corporations

  • that have stepped up really in record time

  • to support this effort.

  • Bank of America, that first weekend when they saw

  • that we needed, they stepped up to help us out.

  • Google.org, AT&T, Fastly and Novartis, thank all of them.

  • And even with their significant support,

  • we still need more help.

  • So if you represent a corporation, please talk to us.

  • And if you're just an individual donor,

  • that still makes a huge, huge, huge difference,

  • for our ability to serve tens of millions of folks

  • around the world.

  • So with that, I am super excited to introduce our guest,

  • Angela Duckworth.

  • In certain circles, she is a mega star, I would say.

  • I've known Angela, for many years.

  • I think we ran into each other at a conference in Canada.

  • This was like eight, nine, or 10 years ago,

  • eight or nine years ago.

  • But, then I, even then I knew Angela was on onto something

  • and since then I think her notoriety has just exploded

  • because the things she talks about are so relevant

  • to education, I think, especially relevant

  • to the time that we're dealing with right now.

  • So, Angela, thank you for joining us.

  • - Thank you Sal, and I'm going to tell you a secret.

  • You didn't just run into me.

  • I actually flew to Canada because I knew

  • someone had told me that you were going to be

  • and I ran into you but not by accident.

  • So I was stalking you.

  • - We see, this is how the tables have turned

  • because now I kind of stalk you.

  • (laughing)

  • - You just email me.

  • It's a lot easier for you,

  • you didn't have to like fly to Canada.

  • - Exactly. I didn't.

  • So I'm glad that we are mutually stalking each other.

  • And I'm going to start off the conversation,

  • but I do want to encourage everyone who's watching

  • on YouTube and Facebook, put questions in there for Angela,

  • and you're going to learn a lot more about

  • her areas of expertise if you don't already know of them.

  • But I will start, Angela, you're known,

  • you're one of really a handful of, I would say, pioneers

  • or leaders in this field of mindset research.

  • And you're really known for grit.

  • Defining it in more precise terms.

  • So just, you know, explain what mindset research is

  • and your view on it, especially relative to grit.

  • - The term mindset has caught on.

  • I have to think that it's gotta be almost the,

  • maybe the most commonly understood new scientific discovery

  • in psychology and among non psychologists, right?

  • Among parents and kids and educators.

  • So what is mindset?

  • You know, mindsets are beliefs that you have about the world

  • or about human nature that drive so much of your behavior.

  • They may not be beliefs that you think about actively,

  • but they're very powerful.

  • And in particular Carol Dweck at Stanford,

  • our common friend and really my hero,

  • she's worked her whole life on something called

  • growth mindset.

  • Your beliefs about your intelligence.

  • And you can either have a growth mindset,

  • which is you know, the belief that intelligence

  • is malleable, that your abilities can change,

  • or you can have a fixed mindset, which is the belief

  • that they can't change that you know, you are who you are,

  • who you are.

  • You're either a math person or not,

  • you're a natural athlete or not.

  • And in my research on grit,

  • which is passionate and persevering effort

  • towards longterm goals, I find, and I think

  • our early work with Carol, but in subsequent studies also,

  • kids who have a growth mindset about intelligence

  • tend to become grittier.

  • And then those increases in grit tend to lead

  • to increases in growth mindset.

  • So there's a kind of virtuous cycle,

  • when a kid really believes that their abilities can change,

  • they're more likely to persevere, to try hard at things,

  • which then reinforces that belief.

  • - And just to make sure I understand these,

  • because I often say these in the same sentence

  • and they are very closely related to growth mindset is,

  • I believe that I can do more, I just have to

  • step out of my comfort zone and apply myself.

  • And if I fail at something, it's not a judgment

  • on some type of innate ability.

  • It's if it's a moment to learn from.

  • While grit is that ability to stick to it.

  • - Yeah, I would say grit, I mean grit is a behavior,

  • grit is like doing it right?

  • And mindset might be why you're doing it, right?

  • So mindset is like the underlying belief

  • that would motivate a certain pattern of behavior

  • that I would describe as grit.

  • And let me just say, because you know,

  • my kids are still teenagers and you know,

  • I'm sure a lot of people have kids who are

  • even younger than, than ours.

  • I think that it's not just, when I think of grit,

  • I don't think just of like working hard.

  • It's also loving what you do.

  • It's also being intrinsically motivated

  • over long periods of time.

  • So, that's just a part of grit that I hope, you know,

  • we can talk about in this conversation

  • because I don't want parents to get the message that like

  • the only thing kids need to do is develop a work ethic.

  • They also have developed interests, loves, passions.

  • - [Sal] Yeah, and that's, I think, a good segue.

  • I mean, you know, you're a professor of psychology

  • at University of Pennsylvania.

  • You've been doing research for a while.

  • You have a bestselling book named, not a surprise, Grit.

  • (laughing)

  • - Yeah. No imagination there in the title.

  • - No, it's the power of passion and perseverance.

  • I think, you know, a question that

  • a lot of parents are asking.

  • My wife asked me to ask you this when she saw that

  • I was walking into the walk-in closet

  • to interview you right now.

  • And it's a question that has been coming up

  • throughout the school closures,

  • is that there's a lot of resources out there.

  • There's Khan Academy, we've put out daily schedules.

  • But what is tangible advice for parents,

  • teachers, or students for themselves to have that grit?

  • To be able to act on that growth mindset, so to speak?

  • - So I think that, not only for grit but for

  • lots of other things that we would love our kids to develop

  • as they grow older, the combination of

  • challenge and support is magical.

  • And, if you ask the question like,

  • what are good parents, right?

  • Like what does the science of parenting say?

  • There's now decades of research on parenting styles

  • and the style of parenting that is the best, really.

  • I mean, I can just say that flat out like it's the best.

  • Your kids will be happier,

  • they'll be more socially adjusted,

  • but they'll also be more accomplished.

  • Like it's this combination of being very supportive

  • but also being demanding.

  • So you could say it's tough love.

  • Now why do I bring that up now

  • in the middle of the COVID crisis?

  • Because kids are being challenged.

  • So their challenges have been, I think in all cases

  • and in many different ways raised, right?

  • Now the question is like, how as parents can you meet that

  • with increased support?

  • Not trivial because we're under our own stress, et cetera.

  • But if you ask the question to me,

  • like where does psychological growth come from?

  • It comes from this combination of like,

  • I'm being asked to do something I can't yet do,

  • but there's a floor beneath me, there's a foundation,

  • there's unconditional support, there is Khan Academy there,

  • you know, there are people who will help me, you know,

  • like make a schedule so I can go on Khan Academy.

  • So I think parents can respond to this crisis

  • by in some ways, thinking of it as an opportunity

  • for their kids to develop these qualities.

  • I call them character strengths,

  • but you can call them SEL skills,

  • you can call them anything you want.

  • And I really do think it's not too Pollyanna

  • to say that it is an opportunity to do all those things.

  • - And what would you, I mean, one,

  • it's impressive that there is, I mean,

  • people have done the research and they've been able

  • to categorize different styles and this,

  • what you're describing seems to be the winning style on,

  • and I'm personally insecure to see how well I'm,

  • I don't know what audits--

  • - Give you a quiz.

  • - Give me a quiz or watch our family.

  • But what either from your or just as a parent

  • that you see good practice, I know y'all have done

  • a lot of research on interventions

  • that can help change people's mindsets.

  • So I mean, one, I'd love to hear about that research

  • and then are there things, let's say hypothetically

  • you were to have a five and a half year old at home

  • or an eight year old.

  • - For example.

  • - For example, I don't know.

  • Some people I know.

  • And you know, they sometimes do their work

  • but they're maybe just doing the minimum

  • or sometimes they don't even want to do that

  • because they feel like there's a little

  • less accountability now.

  • What does the research tell us and what advice

  • would you have for this hypothetical person that I know?

  • - Yeah. Well you know, I have a non hypothetical

  • 17 and non hypothetical 18 year old,

  • but you know, long hypothetical five and a half year old

  • it sounds like on your end.

  • So I think one of the challenges of parenting

  • is to always be titrating to where your kids are.

  • Because when I said that you need to be,

  • and I do believe this, like you need to be

  • a demanding parent.

  • I don't think kids, I mean, kids need parents,

  • like they need us to ask them to do things

  • that they can't yet or wouldn't on their own do.

  • But the titration part is, you know, how much is a stretch

  • for your kid at this particular moment in time

  • and also at this stage in their development?

  • It may not be the same as it is

  • even for another kid in the same family.

  • So the titration is how to have your kids,

  • you know, be challenged but not too much.

  • And so for example, you know, when parents have

  • a idealistic goal of like their kids waking up,

  • making a schedule for the day, sticking to the schedule,

  • you know, if you start with a really unrealistic goal,

  • and you ask your kid to get there, you know,

  • immediately then everybody just gets discouraged

  • and frustrated.

  • So one piece of parenting advice is to take stock

  • of where your kids are and then try to move like 10%. Right?

  • As opposed to like a hundred percent,

  • towards something that you think is better.

  • And in general I find that even adults procrastinate

  • and don't do well when they fail to break down big goals

  • into smaller parts and then, you know,

  • make a more reasonable schedule about, you know,

  • how they're going to accomplish, you know, go down the list.

  • - That's good advice.

  • Not just for our parenting.

  • I mean, just while you were saying that,

  • I'm just, I'm thinking about some of the things

  • that my wife and I have attempted to do,

  • especially with some of our younger kids

  • and I was like, yeah, maybe if we just broke that down

  • a little bit more or just expected the first step of that.

  • And then once--

  • - I mean, Sal, this is what you do so well.

  • Like, by the way, I mean, I will just say

  • you have taught my kids since, you know,

  • as you do so many kids around the world.

  • And you may not have known, but the reason I flew to Canada

  • to stalk you was because my kids were spending

  • so much time learning from you on Khan Academy.

  • And I just got really interested in, you know,

  • how psychologists like me and might learn something from you

  • and be helpful.

  • And I think what you do so well Sal,

  • is you break things down into like parts.

  • So that like you can swallow it kind of like

  • a teaspoon at a time.

  • And I think kids need our help as parents to help them,

  • you know, do that.

  • And I sometimes feel like, you know,

  • parents might have unrealistic expectations about,

  • you know, like how much progress they can expect their kid

  • to make when it comes to self regulation

  • or time management or discipline.

  • And it helps to remember that the great teachers

  • know to break things down.

  • - No, well, I think you're, you're being very flattering.

  • But, I think the point is right.

  • And I think as parents, as much as we try to be centered,

  • we can also sometimes feel an urgency.

  • Like, wait, I heard someone else's kid has, you know,

  • has their whole schedule, is doing everything perfectly

  • and you're probably doing the wrong thing to your kid

  • and you're trying to get them from zero to that

  • and that other child probably isn't doing that.

  • There's probably a little bit of marketing involved there.

  • - I think we probably all have stories of, you know,

  • childhood in my family,

  • it was always these like cousins that I have in Boston who,

  • you know, were seemingly perfect.

  • And actually now that I'm all grown up,

  • I realized they were pretty much perfect

  • and they all became, you know, like Harvard professors.

  • But I don't think that--

  • - I'm afraid, if you're the non-perfect one in the family,

  • who knows what they're doing?

  • - Oh, I think I'm the black sheep.

  • But yes, there's a very distinguished branch of our family,

  • but I'm not in it.

  • So, you know, why do parents make those comparisons?

  • I think they're just, you know, they're kind of just

  • what come to mind for the parent because they, they are,

  • you know, like, "Oh, that's the mental model

  • "I have in my head, so I'll just share it with you."

  • But I don't think kids benefit very much

  • from those kinds of comparisons.

  • And in general in schooling, I think,

  • and I'm thinking, I know you have a global audience,

  • but I'm thinking about the American schooling system.

  • You know, it's a very kind of rank order.

  • Like how are you relative to these other like 900 kids

  • who are your age?

  • And those kinds of comparisons,

  • like am I as smart as her, am I smarter than him?

  • I don't think they're super beneficial most of the time.

  • I think kids actually benefit from make

  • a different kind of comparison, which is how am I

  • compared to how I want to be compared to how I was. Right?

  • And that's a comparison that you can do something with.

  • And that's a comparison that you know,

  • doesn't diminish another person by yourself making progress.

  • And you know, when I think about Khan Academy

  • and your whole philosophy is, you know,

  • you have a book too, which I read and you know,

  • your whole philosophy of like how education ought to work.

  • I really do think it's, you know, it's you with you

  • and like how far you can go and not you and your cousins

  • in Boston or you and you know, the 899 kids

  • who are also in your graduating class.

  • - And I mean with that thought,

  • there's a ton of questions coming in.

  • I want to get to those questions,

  • but I'll ask one of my last indulgent Sal questions,

  • which is, you talked a lot of research that

  • you can change people's mindsets.

  • I mean, tell us a little bit about some of the research

  • that will give all of us a growth mindset about

  • changing our kids' mindset about grit.

  • - Well, I'll tell you about a big study

  • that was run recently and published in Nature.

  • It was a huge scientific team led by David Yeager

  • at UT Austin and also, of course, Carol Dweck was involved.

  • I was just one among many team members.

  • But what it was, was an experiment to see

  • whether we could increase growth mindset

  • in ninth graders all over the United States.

  • And the experiment was a success.

  • And if you ask the question like what did you do?

  • How did you increase growth mindset?

  • There were these brief really, just, you know, minutes long,

  • activities where students A, learned that lots of other kids

  • around their age, you know, also sometimes feel stupid

  • when they get something wrong and they can kind of slip into

  • a like, "Oh, I'll never learn this," mode.

  • But then they learned about the neuroscience

  • that's actually true, that the brain is plastic,

  • that there is tremendous growth.

  • And when you do struggle and you make a mistake

  • and you look at it again, that your brain actually changes.

  • So for me, when I think about this,

  • one of the reasons why intelligence is a hard thing

  • to get kids to understand like that it is malleable,

  • is because it's invisible.

  • It's like it's in your, you know, you can't see your brain.

  • Right? Whereas if you said to a kid like,

  • "Do you think if you lifted all these weights,

  • "you know, your biceps would get bigger?"

  • They would say like, "Of course."

  • But intelligence is kind of behind you know,

  • the forehead so you don't see it.

  • Anyway, ninth graders learned about the modern neuroscience

  • of brain plasticity.

  • And then the last thing that they did was

  • they actually wrote a letter to other students that were,

  • you know, for example, like a little younger than you.

  • Like what would you say?

  • How would you summarize all of this for them?

  • And I think this combination of feeling like,

  • oh, I hear the voices of other students who you know,

  • can sometimes feel dumb when they do something,

  • but then they learn to not feel that way,

  • to understand mistakes as growth and learning.

  • You get some scientific evidence

  • and then you are put in the position of

  • communicating that to other students.

  • I think it's quite brilliant honestly

  • and in this study there were measurable increases

  • in mindset, growth mindset.

  • And then also, particularly for students who had schools

  • where the cultures supported it.

  • There were, also improvements in grades.

  • - Wow. Just to make that very--

  • - Actually, I should say test scores.

  • I think there was like, I should like check on that.

  • I think it was like math grades and test scores.

  • But yeah.

  • - No, but either way, that's very compelling.

  • I mean, are there ways for parents to get that intervention

  • for either themselves or their kids?

  • Yeah, I'll make sure that you all have the hyperlink

  • to the work and some of this work was supported

  • by the Mindset Scholars Network.

  • And you know, there's a link where you can actually

  • get this also for educators.

  • I mean, I'll make sure that you have the right resources.

  • And finally I'll just say, I think parents

  • should read Carol's book.

  • I mean, they should read your book too.

  • They should read lots of books.

  • But I think Mindset is terrific

  • and it's beautifully written.

  • - Good advice.

  • So there's a lot of questions here.

  • So from YouTube, Joe asks, "Angela,

  • "can you use grit to force yourself to have a passion

  • "for something you have little interest in?

  • "For example, a job?"

  • - No. If you want more than a one word answer,

  • I can elaborate, but I don't think that

  • you can force yourself to be passionate about things.

  • So when I measure intrinsic motivation,

  • feeling genuinely curious about things

  • and also feeling like your work is aligned

  • with your personal values,

  • that is what's correlated with grit.

  • Not extrinsic, you know, like I was coerced to do it

  • or I'll make a lot of money if I do it.

  • So I think for me the advice would not be

  • to try to force yourself but actually to find

  • if you're already an adult, like to find a job

  • that is more closely aligned with your developed interests

  • and your values.

  • And if you're still a kid, I would say, you know,

  • the word you want to use about with passion is develop.

  • I think you want to develop passions that are mature

  • and so that requires, you know, lots and lots of time,

  • you know, doing things becoming more and more

  • and more interested in them and committed to them.

  • But I don't think it's a process of forcing yourself

  • or for anybody else to force you either.

  • - And this is really interesting because, so you know, grit.

  • When people think of the word just in the colloquial sense,

  • they think of like being able to power through pain--

  • - I know.

  • - As one form of grit.

  • But that's not what you're saying.

  • - Which is the wrong word.

  • - No, it's a great word.

  • You can exhibit the qualities of grit,

  • but it's not because you're powering through pain,

  • it's because you are intrinsically motivated

  • in what you're doing.

  • - Yeah. And I don't want to paint this like,

  • you know, look, you work really hard, Sal.

  • I work really hard.

  • I think there are parts of our day

  • where we don't want to do what we have to do,

  • but we have to do it.

  • But I would say about myself and I'm sure

  • that you would say it about like, you love what you do,

  • you love what you do.

  • And so yeah, there's practice and there's hard work

  • and there's getting over disappointment.

  • Nobody loves doing it, but overall you love what you do

  • and I think that's the part that's missing in that

  • one syllable word that it doesn't sound like it.

  • But when I study it and when I find it

  • in a really high performer, it's really always there.

  • - You know, I'll throw out a hack that I think

  • is related to Joe's question and I think it's consistent

  • with what you said, but I have no scientific backing

  • other than my N of one and what's going on in my own

  • bizarre head, which is one of my skills that I have

  • and I'm quite proud of it, is I can convince myself

  • to be passionate about almost anything.

  • - Is that right?

  • Wait, give me an example.

  • - Oh, almost any I, you know, well,

  • I mean, a lot of people in Khan Academy,

  • they can hear it in my voice sometimes in these videos,

  • like I'm excited about the Aldol reaction

  • and they're like, why?

  • I was like, well, I don't even make the video

  • until I am excited about it

  • because there is something exciting.

  • You know, in academics, what I remind students

  • is almost everything is the culmination

  • of someone's life work.

  • And they would have killed to have the answers

  • that you have in your textbook

  • or that are being explained to you on a Khan Academy video.

  • And that by itself makes it exciting.

  • You know, and even things as part of my job

  • that aren't like my favorite thing, you know,

  • I love our auditors, they're great people,

  • but you know, sitting in like a meeting

  • about our audit report isn't like, you know what,

  • I clicked my heels on it, but I remind myself,

  • no, this isn't a very important step in order for us

  • to become a real organization in order for us

  • to serve more people.

  • So I definitely do that, I remind myself

  • why what I'm doing matters. - Yes.

  • - And, you know, I had a boss that told me my first,

  • you know, I was working at a big company

  • and there's times when I was like, "Oh, it doesn't matter

  • "if I show up or not, I'm kind of a cog in this big thing."

  • And he said, "Look, you just have to show up

  • "and make yourself and make the company better off today

  • "than it was yesterday."

  • And there's something about that that made me feel

  • very motivated about it.

  • And I'm like, "Oh yeah, yeah, I can get passionate

  • "about that."

  • But I think we're consistent.

  • As long as you can get yourself authentically passionate,

  • motivated, then you can, the grit will kind of happen

  • or can happen.

  • - Yeah. And okay, so you said,

  • oh, this is your N of one.

  • Like, let me give you a little science behind that.

  • So, when you think about why you have to go

  • to an auditing meeting or think about kids

  • doing their homework, right?

  • I mean, so many kids feel like, "Why am I doing this?

  • "This is totally pointless."

  • What they're feeling is that there isn't

  • any purpose to their work.

  • There isn't any like this is a means, but what's the end?

  • And so what your maybe your boss did,

  • and certainly what human beings do is it's useful

  • to think about your goals hierarchically.

  • Like, you know, why am I on this video with

  • Khan Academy, with Sal Khan?

  • It's like, because actually I believe that

  • psychological science can help kids thrive.

  • So for me, this time that we're spending together

  • has a purpose.

  • If a kid is doing their homework and they see the point

  • of doing these, you know, practice problems or like,

  • and they see the point of this class overall,

  • it's really like what you're doing is you're helping them

  • see the kind of the goal that sits above this goal.

  • Like, "Oh, this is the reason why I'm doing it.

  • "The hierarchy makes sense to me."

  • So I agree with you that sometimes we forget

  • and then we have to remind ourselves

  • and then it gives meaning and purpose to something

  • that otherwise would be mundane.

  • But I guess I wouldn't go so far as

  • recommending to people that you could

  • make yourself passionate about everything.

  • I don't think that's what you're saying,

  • because I don't think, I don't think it's possible

  • for people to like really literally be randomly assigned

  • to a job and then just be,

  • 'cause I think about your life, Sal, and I think,

  • you know, obviously it took an unexpected turn

  • when you left, you know, your career track

  • and you became who you are today.

  • But I also have to believe that, you know,

  • I couldn't just like have randomly selected

  • any career path for you that you would be working as hard

  • as you are now, for Khan Academy.

  • - Oh, for sure, for sure.

  • I mean there's definitely an optimization.

  • When I have a choice, I definitely am optimizing

  • for what fills my bucket, so to speak.

  • And I'm learning a lot of five-year-old language.

  • (laughing)

  • But what fills my bucket.

  • But no, it's an interesting, I mean I have to ponder that.

  • I have to meditate on that more to what

  • am I living in my own delusion or not?

  • - I think you've made it,

  • here's how I just taught this undergraduate class

  • called Grit Lab to 60 undergraduates at my university,

  • University of Pennsylvania.

  • And when I had to summarize the entire class

  • in the last hour of the class, I said,

  • "All right, three things.

  • "Choose easy, work hard, pay it forward."

  • And the choose easy was about choosing things

  • that you're naturally or intrinsically interested in.

  • They feel like they resonate with your values,

  • you're good at them or like, I actually think

  • that's the part that you did.

  • You chose something that you're very, very good at

  • and committed to, it resonates with your deepest values,

  • you love learning, you probably love teaching. Okay.

  • Then what's number two?

  • Number two is work hard.

  • And number two is you know what?

  • The audit is part of running Khan Academy.

  • You know what?

  • Raising money is part of Khan Academy.

  • I'm sure you don't like that either.

  • You know what, like doing whatever it is

  • that you need to do.

  • And I think that's where you're using these like

  • mental hacks to kind of like get yourself to be excited

  • about an audit or, and that's the part where

  • you do need to use discipline and strategies to work hard.

  • And by the way, the third part is paid forward, right?

  • So, you know, for every good person in life, you know,

  • that means, you know, doing things for other people.

  • But I do think that sometimes young people

  • get these confused and they think they should choose hard

  • and that the work should be easy.

  • But like, no, you choose things that are kind of fluent

  • and fluid for you and then there's always

  • going to be friction and that's when you have to learn

  • all these ways to work hard.

  • Does that make any sense?

  • - No, it made a ton of sense

  • and this is a fascinating conversation,

  • you know, whenever we're having these good conversations,

  • the time goes by far faster than I would like.

  • I hope we have more time to have this conversation

  • 'cause I think we're just getting started.

  • And maybe we have time for one more question from YouTube,

  • Sanjiv Kumar asks, can anyone develop grit at any age

  • or is it more specific for children and young adults?

  • - I really do believe that one of the great lessons

  • of psychological science over the last few decades

  • is that we are remarkably malleable.

  • In other words, Carol Dweck is not only right

  • about intelligence but about pretty much

  • every other facet of human nature.

  • And I'm not saying that you can metamorphose

  • into like some completely different human being in a day,

  • but I do think, yeah, you can develop growth mindset,

  • you can develop grit, you can become a nicer person,

  • you can become a better listener, you can become

  • a little more emotionally, like all of those things.

  • And it's not just childhood and it's not just adolescence

  • and it's not even just early adulthood or middle adulthood.

  • There's not a point in the entire span of a life

  • where people stop learning and growing

  • if they're open to it.

  • - Wow. I want us to have a conversation about

  • each of those things 'cause I want all of them.

  • (laughing)

  • For myself.

  • - I would love to have another conversation, Sal.

  • You know, I'm a huge fan of Khan Academy

  • and I'm a huge fan of yours.

  • - Let's book it cause I think we're just getting started.

  • I mean there's so many questions folks are,

  • I'm trying to see if I could squeeze one more in.

  • Let's see, this is a big one, but from YouTube Bilal A asks,

  • "Where does passion come from?

  • "I am 31 and still trying to find my passion.

  • "I don't find anything interesting enough

  • "to put my soul into."

  • Any thoughts there?

  • I have some thoughts.

  • - Okay, well you start with your thoughts

  • and then I'll end and this will be a good last question.

  • What's your thought first?

  • - My quick advice for Bilal is make space for exploration.

  • I had that same angst when I was young,

  • I had good jobs, but they weren't my passion.

  • But I had space for exploration.

  • And through that space for exploration,

  • I was able to find my true passion.

  • - Okay. That's great advice.

  • I agree with you.

  • And when I was 31 I was crying and crying

  • on my living room couch, not knowing

  • what I wanted to do with my life, literally.

  • I mean, ask my husband.

  • The couch was nearly salty with like,

  • you know, you could almost see the precipitate of the salt

  • on the surface of the pillows.

  • I was crying that much, and I really like sympathize

  • with this feeling of like, "Oh my gosh, you know,

  • "I'm trying to have a passion, but I don't know what it is."

  • And for me it was, you know, giving myself little freedom

  • but I think also it was reflecting on

  • what I had become interested in in the past.

  • And when I thought back to when I was 16 years old,

  • I remembered that when I was 16 I went to summer school.

  • And because my parents who were very cheap,

  • like wouldn't pay for anything until like

  • their kids could pay for it.

  • So I had saved up all my money and the first time

  • I could afford to do anything over the summer

  • was when I was 16.

  • So I got to choose and I opened up that course catalog.

  • And what did I choose?

  • I chose two classes.

  • Psychology and nonfiction writing.

  • And that's essentially all I do all day.

  • Psychology and nonfiction writing.

  • So I guess I would suggest that if you're a 31 year old

  • who like me was maybe crying a lot, angst ridden.

  • Is that in addition to giving yourself some space

  • for self exploration is, try to recall in your life

  • the times where you were interested in things

  • or you were excited and you might be able

  • to piece together some of the puzzle and I kid you not,

  • when I was 32, I just like, I had thought about it,

  • I was like, "Oh, I'm interested in psychology,

  • "I'm interested in writing.

  • "I used to teach math.

  • "That must be, and I'm pretty good at math

  • "or I like math, I don't know.

  • "And I think I should be a psychologist."

  • And then I went to graduate school.

  • - Wow. And then you became Angela Duckworth.

  • Well then I learned a lot about psychology, I'll say that.

  • Yeah, I think for me, I would say that now

  • my work is my calling and it is who I am.

  • I think about it all the time.

  • I think about it if I wake up in the middle of the night,

  • I think about it on Sunday morning.

  • I think about it on Friday night.

  • And I think that's what this 31 year old wants.

  • They want that.

  • And it was a process.

  • I don't want to say it happened, you know,

  • in a moment in time, but, but there was, you know,

  • a long period of struggle.

  • And I do empathize with that and I have

  • a lot of hope for you because, you know,

  • you too, Sal probably couldn't have foreseen

  • that this would be your calling, but it is,

  • and callings generally, you know,

  • take a while to develop and to deepen over time.

  • - No, that's incredible, incredible advice.

  • And Angela, I think I'll commit us.

  • We're going to have at least one more conversation--

  • - Let's do it.

  • - For all these other questions.

  • - I would love that.

  • - So thank you so much for joining us.

  • Thanks everyone else for joining us.

  • As you could tell, we wish we could do this

  • for a long time more, but we will,

  • it's good to end on a high point of people wanting more.

  • So, please join us, for future live streams,

  • tomorrow, if I'm correct, I think we're going to have

  • Jim Nondorf from the University of Chicago,

  • the head of admissions there.

  • So look forward to seeing all of you all tomorrow.

  • Thanks, Angela.

  • - Bye.

- Hi everyone.

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毎日のホームルームライブwithサル:5月6日(水 (Daily Homeroom Live with Sal: Wednesday, May 6)

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