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  • or two.

  • Uh, the fifties were time in America when we think there's a lot of repression kids were trying to break out.

  • That was rock and roll.

  • But it's a kid growing up.

  • Remember what the American dream was?

  • Remember what your parents told you the American dream was.

  • How does that square with what you?

  • My dad told me?

  • Ah, I would be.

  • I should be very happy to be earning $100 a week, $125 a week and I have a house one day in Long Island and maybe a job at the bank.

  • He was half kidding, but he was also serious that he was concerned about security by security.

  • I used to say, Nobody gets out of here alive, which was later paraphrase by Jim Morrison.

  • He said to say life is no bowl of Cherries.

  • When he got out of college in 1931 his most vivid and dramatic memory was with the Yale.

  • Education was turning out as a floor walker.

  • Begging for a job is a floor walker, the department store.

  • So he took him a long while to get his feet after college, and I think that profoundly affected him.

  • And he used to tell me that America did not come out of that depression until the Second World War and that he, being a Roosevelt hater, used to say that Roosevelt got all the credit for getting America the Depression, when in fact the war did.

  • So, uh, I grew up in a environment of strict conformity where I used to wear a tie and a shirt and ah, jacket every day I lived in New York City.

  • I did not go out on the street with without a tie on.

  • You felt naked on the street without a tie in the neighborhoods where I waas.

  • Uh, on the other hand, life had a very defined stability to it.

  • Everything was done at a certain hour.

  • My father would sit the bathtub at a certain hour, and I could always go and see him at that hour and talk to him.

  • Uh, was there a sense at that time that that was repressive was claustrophobic.

  • There was an essence to being normal that was driving kids crazy driving you crazy.

  • I did not realize that I I realized that in hindsight, when people tell me about it because the beatnik movement obviously stressed that Kerouac and people like that we're breaking out.

  • But as a kid, at that point in time, no, I had no sense of where that there was a problem with the environment.

  • I felt suddenly was wrong in the 19 sixties, in the early sixties, but in the 19 fifties it was fear and conformity and getting good grades in school and, ah, trying to grow up without getting into too much trouble.

  • You know, I think smoking cigarettes and maybe getting being a J D juvenile delinquent was about the level of nonconformity that you could go to.

  • You'd always be terrified of the kids that got kicked out of school, you know, because that always beat those kids two or three.

  • Your friends ago.

  • God, what's gonna happen to him?

  • You know what's good?

  • What's gonna happen to his life now that he's gone?

  • You know, um, when do you think the 19 sixties kicked in for you?

  • This this This time, that does not necessarily find itself by 19 sixties and 1970.

  • But this more kind of impressionistic called something was certainly well for mine.

  • My life paralleled.

  • The year is in in a certain way because I was born in 1946 at the dawn of the cold era Cold War era.

  • It's ironic because I grew up during all that.

  • You know, you're being scared of the Russians.

  • My father really scared me a lot about they're gonna take over the world because we're letting them and we are.

  • There's his conspiracy abroad from the Russian, the Communist conspiracy theory.

  • And I thought it was pretty frightening to a 989 year old, you know, and I believed it through the fifties and then And I suppose, when Kennedy came along, Kennedy, if you remember, did sell the Cold War idea at the beginning of his he changed, I think later and his can a presidency.

  • But it all started to come apart about that for me and for the United States, to my parents kind of divorce, ironically, and 60 to 63 which was a major shock.

  • Todo is 14 years old, and it was about the time that Kennedy was killed.

  • And then when Kennedy was killed, Mr Johnson committed us to Vietnam, and I think you saw this whole sort of questioning going on in America subconsciously was happening to me after a divorce situation was a bit like catching a ride on, if you know the book.

  • But Holden Caulfield was my was a bit of my anti hero at the time I ran away from school, I did a number of things that were similar, and I went to college at Yale University, and I really literally had a nervous breakdown without having than any of the physical symptoms of one in that it was suddenly stopped.

  • Nothing was working for me.

  • I couldn't get good grades anymore.

  • I couldn't work.

  • I couldn't study, couldn't concentrate.

  • I knew something was wrong with my system mentally that it was not getting enough out of America, not getting enough out of myself.

  • Unhappy.

  • And I said, Well, I'm gonna take myself out to the Far East because I've got I've got to find another way I've got to find another way of living.

  • I remember being particularly influenced by shows of Conrad's book at that point.

  • Lord Jim on about sailing the Southeast Asian sees and having that sense of freedom in another life, a second life so speaker.

  • That's what happened to me.

  • I went out.

  • There is a second life in 1965 to teach school.

  • It's a Chinese students high school students in in Saigon and Charlotte, Vietnam.

  • Was there a disillusionment at those times in the early sixties for you as a work with somebody in the baby boomer generation that America wasn't providing what it said it was gonna provide That wasn't being the country that professed itself to be?

  • Not yet.

  • No, I think, uh uh, I don't know what I was rebelling against.

  • All I knew is what something was wrong.

  • And I had to go find another system, find another, see what the rest of the world was like.

  • I was too young to make value judgments.

  • I was just But I was old enough to know that something was wrong.

  • And then I had to look, I just had to keep my eyes open and to go out to the Far East and to talk to meet new people and senior, the things seem to be the solution.

  • Ah, the disillusionment possibly, uh, starts with with a sense of, you know, I was one of the first kids to leave college.

  • That didn't start till 68.

  • But I think it starts with that sense of the lonely crowd.

  • David Reisman book A sense of conformity A my growing to Yale University in order to to turn into another time a suit on Wall Street TB a banker to be another member of Skull and Bones or the CIA.

  • You know, I'm not gonna be part of that assembly line of America and leaders and lawyers and white collar people.

  • I and I looked at them.

  • I saw the result through my father.

  • I used to go to Washington in New York and see those the results of the system.

  • And I think I was questioning it.

  • I wasn't sure what I could replace it with, but, uh, there was certainly a questioning or not.

  • What did you see in those people?

  • What were those values that you saw?

  • Um, I think you could sort of sum it up with what George Bush is today.

  • In 1990 I mean, types like George Bush guys who never read a book who never see a movie.

  • There's a bone home bonhomie.

  • Oh, there's a good friendship sort of macho friendship quality you slap on the back.

  • Everything is all right.

  • Uh, the world is in is be, you know, there's a seven.

  • I sense of order there, too.

  • There's no question that gives you sort of, sort of, ah sense of law and order, which are Mr Bush's.

  • He emanates those feelings.

  • Did you see when we when we talk about the Vietnam experience can you talk about it in terms of when you went, what you believed you were doing and when things Oh, boy, that's next 10 years.

  • Or like you know, you're talking about a roller coaster ride through adolescent hell.

  • Uh, I think that you see a lot of those feelings reflected in Born the Fourth of July and in platoon.

  • If you look closely and in fact, you know, I think if you look at my movie Wall Street, you'll see a kid that if I had every state at college and gone to Wall Street, I might have, you know, had some of those problems that Charlie did.

  • Xin er I think you know, I went to Nam is a soldier.

  • Eventually, in 67 8 and I saw things that just shocked me open my eyes.

  • I never be the same again.

  • I combat is a is a Syrian experience and devastating to know what your sense of life is worth Your sense of self, Uh, you have no illusions about yourself or what life comes down to.

  • It comes to a very basic thing survival.

  • And you see a lot of ugliness in your fellow man and young people.

  • I mean, it's a very genetic kind of thing.

  • It just is.

  • Bree did.

  • It's It's an inbred thing.

  • I try to deal with that in platoon at the lowest level.

  • You see, a certain type of man is gonna go a certain kind of way in a pressure situation, and other types of men are gonna do better things I think morally better.

  • So, uh, e I got a hand on an eyeful of that.

  • About 19 20 I came back and I guess I was like the Tom Cruise character and born in that I was not ready to condemn the war effort, But I certainly things were not working and sink.

  • My head and my heart were telling me two different things.

  • My head was saying yes, support the government support the troops be pay, you know, support your flag and my heart.

  • My body language is time.

  • He said it was wrong over there.

  • I don't believe what I saw.

  • I don't think we were doing the right thing.

  • I think we were hurting people.

  • And I think that we were hurting ourselves a lot.

  • And, uh So I came back to a very conflicted interstate, and I went through years of questioning and alienation and doubts and personal problems.

  • I went to jail at one point in America, 10 days after I got back from the Vietnam War for marijuana, which was another eye opener, because here in the jails, I saw another underclass of kids that I just left in Vietnam that were in jail without any really hopes of freedom.

  • Um, I was lucky enough to end will and and got the g I.

  • Bill on made short film dance took some of the pressure off of me that, you know, get non veterans have been screwed up is you know, you know, they say I don't know the numbers, but, you know, maybe more than 60,000.

  • All right.

  • Since the war.

  • In addition, to 60,000 dead over there.

  • We're talking about sides.

  • We're talking about alcohol related car accidents and but accidents.

  • We're talking about despair.

  • Since symptoms of syndromes.

  • In our effort to make sense of the 60 Siri's is titled making.

  • Could you make sense of what you came back to?

  • I mean, Erica, to you at that point, you said you came back.

  • He still wanted to believe in these things.

  • You couldn't mean Where were you then?

  • Where were you in Terms was going on in the streets of America?

  • Well, I think the America I came back in a sense had changed enormously.

  • I think that Johnson split the country in half by sending only the poor.

  • I, uh, the draft was not just if you could get a college deferment, you got one.

  • So that means that why did the war if you could ghost?

  • If you had the money to pay a psychiatrist, you could get theatric discharge.

  • I mean, anybody could get out if they really wanted to.

  • You cannot fight a war that way because it splits a generation.

  • You're sending half the kids effort continuing on into a commercial life here.

  • Back to a situation where my generation, I knew were all prospering because Johnson, period, the inflation took took this country like a steam roller and just the value of the dollar.

  • I mean, what a dollar could buy.

  • And 65 it was tremendously different.

  • And inflation was right making money.

  • My friends were doing well.

  • Um, I came back to a situation where, uh, encountering hostility to mind involvement.

  • Over there.

  • I was encountering a complete indifference.

  • It was like, Oh, you were over there for you Dropped out for a year to go over there time.

  • It's too bad.

  • Welcome back.

  • Let's get on with your life.

  • But you just come back and get back into that beat.

  • You know, you're off a beat.

  • When you come back from war, you're off of it.

  • And you you just don't look at people the same way.

  • You don't relate to them the same way you you don't have friends.

  • I have friends and you don't.

  • And you don't trust your family because your family doesn't.

  • My dad did never got Vietnam.

  • He thought it was a police action.

  • Remember, I've been wounded twice and he said, Well, that's not really a war.

  • Like where I was in.

  • He said that it was a police action which hurt me.

  • You don't trust anybody.

  • And then eventually you get to the point where you don't for men anymore.

  • The Pentagon papers came out on it.

  • What?

  • It was Justin.

  • What was in those papers?

  • The whole Johnson fabricated the whole Vietnam War with the Tonkin Gulf resolution.

  • They stampeded this house integrated into a war that was never declared.

  • He sends half the fighting.

  • He lets the rich go.

  • It's a completely insane way if you're dividing the country of putting civil war in other countries.

  • But Lincoln did 100 years before, But he did it for the wrong reasons.

  • Johnson made a civil war in this country.

  • Given all took me.

  • I'm amazed it took me so long to realize what What the hell was going up?

  • I guess I'm stupid or slower.

  • Later.

  • Later.

  • Developer arrest.

  • But I guess it took me about 1971 toe kind of say, Hey, something is very wrong.

  • The government is telling the government is a lie.

  • Never trust your government again.

  • 71 72.

  • And then, of course, Watergate happened.

  • Nixon ends up to be another con man and a a liar.

  • I mean, so many times.

  • Nixon lied.

  • It's but I still think Johnson out.

  • Does Nixon in terms of line sincere Zehr were longer.

  • Are you have a drink of water?

  • Were you in get non midnight in 68 Is the question I just asked?

  • Yes, Um when you were a little more.

  • Thank you.

  • Oh, yes, I see it when you were in Vietnam.

  • 68 as a soldier fighting.

  • And you look Chicago Convention.

  • Martin Luther King gets shot.

  • God, America seems to be coming apart.

  • How does that occurred?

  • The soldier over there in Vietnam.

  • Are you even conscious of what's happening in the conscious of the protesters?

  • What do you think of them?

  • What are they doing?

  • Looking to the soldier fighting in Vietnam.

  • Think ta demarcation point.

  • In 1968 when we were the first Cavalry Division up north in the camp Evans, the the day that London Johnson declared a run for president.

  • You knew all the infantry line.

  • It's new.

  • It was because you couldn't con them that we weren't go out win this war.

  • That we were gonna be fighting a retreating act infantry from that point on, and from that point on for Amanda risk life in a retreating action, it becomes highly, he will risk his life.

  • Uh, whereas before March of six, there was still this sort of blind or naive belief that, you know, we were at least going to try and take some territory and sort of close it.

  • And But after March was 68 there was no has definition.

  • It was You have to let you fly into a beast you'd lose.

  • Meant you'd secure.

  • You'd leave it again back to the same piece of land a few days later, and then you'd lose more men.

  • Ah, the morality just went out.

  • I noticed the drug went up in 68 is considerably, uh, grass, heroin?

  • Uh, a real major point.

  • And then, of course, I think was April.

  • The king was shot in April.

  • You sensed it immediately.

  • The black troops that there was a lot of hostility and a and again that added to the demoralization Kennedy was shot.

  • That was like the final straw that broke the back of this thing.

  • There was no hope after that.

  • of winning.

  • Get out.

  • Count your days and get out if you can.

  • Don't risk your life.

  • Don't take any other foolish risk.

  • And the officers, of course, could not rally a thing beyond the minimum.

  • Did you the people who were protesting the war when you first went over?

  • What?

  • Did you have an attitude about Demi Moore?

  • Yes, when I first went.

  • But the term, uh, well, you first go over and you're doing it.

  • You're serving it.

  • You're you're putting fine.

  • And these are the kids that are not that good deferments.

  • There's a natural resentment.

  • You know who were there?

  • Let them.

  • If they're gonna protest, let them do it in a in a.

  • Let them join the army and be conscientious objectors inside.

  • Let them take a stand or let them go to Canada.

  • At least let them stand for something.

  • But there was something hypocritical about being able to avoid in the system and going to college at the same time to avoid all of the choices that that your decision brought about.

  • So it seemed like an easy out.

  • That's why I suppose at that time 67 68 I had contempt for them.

  • But that changed Crumb.

  • If I probably would have done the same thing, I probably would have been to college because I wouldn't know what war is like.

  • I don't want to, and I've probably protest because it's the best thing I could do and say something without, You know, that's the best I could have done without screwing up my life.

  • J two.

  • Great.

  • Um, next time we're talking about is what is that are just in time?

  • Um, did you have any identification with what We, the counter culture long see them.

  • Were you a part of that movement?

  • Was just a political cultural movement or wasn't a big party or didn't have any?

  • Uh, it had nothing no meaning to me until, uh, I heard that some of the music in Vietnam I heard brothers and I heard the doors.

  • I heard, uh, I I'd grown up a cz I told you earlier in a more conformist society in the fifties and sixties when you wore a tie and an assured to suddenly see girls and boys completely naked, taking their clothes off wearing these outrageous clothes was quite a shock to may.

  • I said How did you know I'd never have the courage to do that?

  • I look that I would never look to try to stand out, go with long hair.

  • My father had always sort of taught me, you know, a woman it should stand out should look good, But a man, uh, stand out.

  • You know, you should be anonymous.

  • Just part of the reason you go to the army to sort of be anonymous, to sort of not have an identity to to be part of a social fabric.

  • Uh, that gives it its There's a strange strengthen that, you know, that Oh, to be one of collective, which I suppose is true about some of the hippie movement to own way.

  • They were joining a collective and being anonymous in their own way.

  • But it struck me as very at that time, it struck me as just a kid under uh uh, I said I could I never understood the motivation of the girls are very and, uh, you know, the old thing about at that point in time, some of the girls were saying that we would never have sex with soldiers because, you know, they're the war machine and they were sex military.

  • And that was an interesting I thought concept of Strada.

  • You know that.

  • And in fact, they were right.

  • I mean, if all the mothers in America had worked had declared war on the Pentagon and they could have prevented it if all of Mother's had spoken out as mothers to protect their sons, it would not way dead.

  • They had these to me.

  • And, you know, I came to understand after the or what?

  • The music that got me first with the music was black.

  • Music is what worked because I had It was a lot of black yet now I'm so they were playing temptations and, uh, key Robinson stuff you saw in Platoon.

  • You know, that gets to your unconscious very quickly.

  • It's interesting that me in Vietnam, between the guys who listen to country music, which are many, uh, they had a very strong I would say, more hawkish point of view.

  • Whereas those boys who listened more to the soul music at a different point of you and there was more like I'm gonna take the cash is clay attitude Mohammed Ali attitude of I got no beef with you had come.

  • I just gotta get Kevin gonna get out of here.

  • They were more cooler and we went to which is I found that those type of people would treat the Villagers a little better.

  • And some of the people who listen to some of the country music kicks him at.

  • I think the music got to me first.

  • This spirit of intoxication when I came in states, uh, I started to do more and more grass.

  • So of course you know, the grass mellows you out.

  • You start to be less rigid and you're thinking less judgmental.

  • You don't see categories the same way.

  • I became much more tolerant.

  • And, uh, I think what you know nice about the hippie movement to May in those years was this of there was no fear.

  • They really didn't operate out of fear like I did in Vietnam.

  • I mean, I had to lose that fear.

  • There was no sense of danger to life.

  • There's no dealing with death.

  • It was it was everything was was there to be had.

  • It was abundant.

  • The world was an abundance.

  • The world was to be.

  • The concept of love is a public phenomenon love in a public way.

  • Be outside of the church.

  • This is the first, uh, I heard of it.

  • You love peace, man.

  • Love and peace.

  • That was the refrain.

  • Uh, the concept was that life was there to be fully to experience everything, have no fear, make no plans, make no career plants test and enjoy the limits of life.

  • That's that's pretty.

  • It's for Vietnam veteran to come back to that situation because you're you're wracked with fear, your paranoia with death on your mind.

  • For me to make that transition is seen hair the musical orgy to Krister and trying to relate to those nourish my generation.

  • It was very difficult, difficult.

  • And, uh, I never felt like I was with them.

  • I could never be a hippie.

  • Just there was a gulf.

  • But that doesn't to say that I didn't smoke as much dope as they ever did or take his many acid trips, because I did.

  • And I had my own Siri's of experiences, but I never I never considered myself in the mainstream of the hippie movement.

  • Um, well, you talk about the music, you talk about the doors, I'm just making the assumption that Jim Morrison was a That's a correct assumption.

  • Could you tell me that?

  • And could you tell me why?

  • I think, uh, Martians An interesting case.

  • He he goes against the grain.

  • It's You cannot say that Jim Morrison or the Doors.

  • In fact, where he hit the type band like the Grateful Dead were Or, uh, you know, any jet plane or even Jimi Hendrix, I suppose.

  • Or Janis Joplin.

  • There was something about Jim.

  • Hey, was addressing issues of sex and death heavily.

  • I mean, strain on with words which were clear.

  • A lot of the lyrics from those songs were unclear.

  • So he was very upfront and straightforward and ascribed to sort of an ancient mythology of his own.

  • He talks about concepts like Snake that are familiar to the Egyptians to ancient Egyptians and ancient Greeks.

  • It would talk about Greek theater and eso as a veteran of Vietnam veteran.

  • Certainly the tips of sex and death were very close to me on I could relate to, but I saw Jim Oh, is this sort of a counter cultural, uh, more closer to probably Marlon Brando or James Dean?

  • Uh, then Ah, the people from Hair or John Lennon for John Lennon would be the the obverse of Jim.

  • What was it about that it was there a particular song that they did that stands out?

  • Something I might be able to use in the interesting Bring specific memories or images Make him stay.

  • Well, I think what was good about to Jim in the door so I'm gonna try to bring out in the movie I'm making is that they were so damn good.

  • They had a high density of good songs because not only with a good musicians Ray and Robby and John, but Jim was a true was a tremendous poet of his time.

  • I mean, he's gonna stand up there with Rambo and Baudelaire and T.

  • S Eliot.

  • As far as I'm concerned, he said it.

  • He said a lot of good things.

  • So it runs through from, you know, break on through their flagship for us long to light my fire toe.

  • The end is certainly the first sort of a classic opera kind of teeth.

  • A journey through a subterranean consciousness.

  • Uh, and then you you know, your album was just a strong is the first, and it went all the way through the seven albums down to L.

  • A Woman where Jim, I think, got much mellower later on.

  • I mean, I think he lost some of his that harder edge, and he became more of a blues type singer, always loved the blues, and he was laying back.

  • And I think, uh, you've had, like, seven albums and maybe 40 songs and maybe 2025 songs are terrific songs of Window just chronologically go from 1962.

  • 19 were some end of the decade, if you will.

  • Seven.

  • Missing the cut off point.

  • But there was a beginning.

  • And where had you come by the end of this?

  • You're talking about adolescence.

  • I think nothing.

  • Everything happens.

  • That's exciting in our lives.

  • When the age of from 14 to 24 you know, that's That's the playground where so much has decided I came from being a Republican, young, Republican type, conformist, not really knowing what I was thinking, why I was thinking it, but parody in sort of a party line to being a anarchic, uh, creatively anarchic independent, uh, free.

  • Think doubting everything by the end of the sixties, doubting the systems that I had learned about in the fifties, but not yet knowing how to live my life quite on wrestling, with many doubts in much internal warfare.

  • When did sixties in for that period that we call the sixties?

  • When did it come to a close?

  • Was anything symbolic about anything, Any symbolic moment or event personal for National?

  • You see, I I don't describe the the media aspect of the sixties being this defined era.

  • It was It's about our generation in the sense that we were born in the forties, and it's a process that's been ongoing.

  • So sixties just melted in the seventies of seventies and the eighties and now in the nineties, but we're accumulating.

  • Were absorbing all that information still, and we're We're reflecting back now.

  • Some of our sixties values.

  • They didn't disappear.

  • There was no dramatic bombing of an airport that ended the sixties.

  • You could.

  • You know, I don't describe the Altamont being the end of the sixties because there was some fighting and ugliness and people were taking too many drugs.

  • And there's no question that, you know, abusive and self indulgence did set in.

  • But that didn't make drugs bad drugs were.

  • If you know, we'll forget in this simplistic times that drugs were there to expand our minds and we took him to expand our minds, and in many cases it worked.

  • Our minds did get a little better.

  • We started something.

  • We question things, and we must never say that it was a loss or a failure or that it stopped.

  • I see it as an ongoing phenomena.

  • I would not be the person I am a fan man for the sixties.

  • Uh, and I'm still using that information in the nineties, and I hope, among other things, not only to celebrate the sixties with this movie about to pass on like D N a.

  • Some of that information to the kids that are growing up in the nineties.

  • They should have it.

  • It was a good time.

  • It was a time when we were not scared.

  • It was a time when we believed in the possibility of all things we believed in love as a concept.

  • We believed in experiencing all of life that innocence is wonderful and should be always be there.

  • It should not just disappear with age, and we mustn't become world weary.

  • We had we become tired.

  • As we get older, we become more jaded.

  • Yes, that's a part of life, too.

  • But threaded in there should be that innocence.

  • Interesting.

  • You say that because in Wall Street, at very least, there's There is a message that some of those values that we talked about in the sixties or we identify are assigned to the sixties got lost by a generation.

  • A generation of yuppies?

  • Yes, well, er the characters in Wall Street.

  • Charlie Sheen character is obviously was not born in the sixties.

  • He was born, and I did notice among people that were came of came of age in the seventies and eighties.

  • I, uh there was too much accent on material things, and I tried to point out up in Wall Street, Gordon Gekko was a character.

  • Point was, grew up in the sixties, but I see him as a character have been out of born the Fourth of July.

  • The guy runs the fast food hamburger joint in Massapequa.

  • I mean, he probably went right through the National Guard or God or went to business school, never had to go to Vietnam and was making bucks in the sixties and working his way up as a businessman.

  • You know, I don't think that it Gordon Gekko of Michael Douglas character ever in any way shared the values of most of the kids in the sixties.

  • S o.

  • I think both of those characters missed the sixties and in no way stand for it.

  • Let me ask you this.

  • We're in our show.

  • Six.

  • Right now.

  • It's the last episode.

  • It's the legacies, if you will.

  • Um, and there's two different legacies of Vietnam.

  • I want exam, and I don't if you can separate him or not enough there separately.

  • But the attitude.

  • The legacy of Vietnam for the nation versus the legacy of Vietnam for this generation, your generation, not the generation of people who are 25 years old, you know who didn't live through the morning, our parentsgeneration.

  • But is there difference that the nation doesn't nation have a legacy of Vietnam as a nation?

  • And does your generation have a legacy of Vietnam?

  • It's different.

  • Rephrase that.

  • I'm sorry like what is the legacy and then legacy of my general for this generation with that sort of I see what you're saying.

  • It's a newbie ice I say?

  • Well, I mean, I think the legacy of Vietnam oh is very intertwined between my generation and the country is because my generation is in the early forties.

  • You're gonna start to see those that political leadership come to the forefront in our country.

  • I I'm hopeful that people like Bob Kerrey, for example, ah, governor of Nebraska, you know, would be a presidential candidate.

  • He's about 42.

  • He lost a leg in Vietnam, a very bright man.

  • Compassionate.

  • He's been there.

  • Um, I think make a fine president against him would be a guy like Dan Quayle who is also about the same age, early forties.

  • Ah, heartbeat away from the presidency, a man who has never really suffered pain, a man who went to the National Guard to avoid Vietnam and yet is one who always calls for military intervention in South Central America with other people's bodies.

  • You have that hypocrisy at work.

  • So you see, I think you you see a real split right there between a guy like Bob Kerrey in Nebraska and Dan Quayle from Indiana.

  • However, you see that split in the country, and that's the left Vietnam legacy of my generation.

  • Theology Norris On one side, the Oliver Stone's on the other.

  • I mean, there are some.

  • In my opinion, there are boneheads who never learned anything about in Vietnam.

  • They were willing to go back in.

  • We mustn't kid ourselves.

  • They were ready to invade Nicaragua in 1986 already.

  • They were ready to go.

  • I was in Honduras, was in Guatemala.

  • I was in Salvador.

  • I saw that home machine building up again.

  • And, uh, they knew they could win, you know, and they were willing to find it.

  • I think the only thing that side rail that was the Iran Contra investigation and, uh, it was in the one that got in the wind and picture like platoon came out.

  • I think that people So they sense the politicians sense that no people would not support and war another war in Central America.

  • So, uh, it's it's we're right on the borderline.

  • And now you know, there's just no excuse with garbage, Jeff decoupling the Cold War for this mentality to go on.

  • I'm very divided.

  • I mean, we are politically, we must get smart.

  • We must have evolved.

  • So it's a planetary consciousness with environment, etcetera.

  • On the other hand, I have this perennial fear of the old Jane Goodall theory about the apes.

  • You know that the old Alfa ape is up there somewhere in our brain, this dinosaur brain keeps emerging.

  • Uh, and we need enemies.

  • We need enemies.

  • And if we don't have when we invent one, certainly the Oliver north of this world do that.

  • So many of them people in politics, people who have the power.

  • And, uh, that's a war that's going on, gonna go on for into the turn of the new century.

  • My kid's going to face that war.

  • Is America going to become 1/3 World?

  • Policemen were gonna be intervening in numerous border war is trying to protect our ideology from perceived threats.

  • Or are we going to become more like Japan, Switzerland or Sweden or European country that, through its past experiences of suffering and pain and wisdom, will will accept other ideologies except other ways of life and go on about this business, which I've always think America has a good business.

  • It's business.

  • We're good at it.

  • We're not great warriors were good businessman, So I think America should do that and, uh, maybe the defense people the defense industry will Our expenditures there will Will drop.

  • Okay, we'll do one more tape and I'll have you out of here.

  • Two minutes, minutes.

  • One more take.

  • Uh it was interesting night.

  • Once again we're the nineties.

  • Looking back for this episode what are some things that that people from the from the sixties people who grew up through the sixties people like yourself, uh, are the things that they just won't let go up?

  • Are there certain ideas, certain values that you feel that they just won't let go?

  • Yeah, I think the important thing in the sixties values that we learned was to experience It was the power of experience.

  • Onda.

  • We took acid, We took mushrooms, Coyote.

  • We tried everything to expand our minds.

  • And I think that that hunger is still there.

  • I hope it is.

  • We knew that if we narrowed our minds like our parents Ah, we were doing the wrong thing.

  • And those people who have held on to that legacy in the nineties or people that have always kept an open mind and are pushing those barriers they know that the mind has got no limits.

  • Great.

  • Um, finally, audiences see your movies today.

  • Do you get a sense of who's watching these movies?

  • Are you are they print primarily a sixties crowd that watches these movies.

  • Uh, what do you hear about and what do you hear back from these people?

  • What?

  • What is it they tell you about these films?

  • Reviews are personal letters.

  • Well, the film market is generally, uh, it's over.

  • The years has been skewed to under 25.

  • So my movies, the ones I mean most them play to the other markets.

  • What's been interesting has been platoon and born on the Fourth of July, and Salvador have played towards older people.

  • Um, who were there?

  • That s so for them.

  • It's not.

  • It's not a first time lesson, Uh, illustration.

  • It's really a history.

  • And I mean, I can only answer as to the letters I have received.

  • They've been extremely encouraging that somebody filmmaker is trying to deal with the, uh, with their history, their that they know.

  • And it's surprising to me.

  • That's how few films have been realistic about the year that we lived through.

  • Uh, maybe now it's gonna change, but the kids are the most interesting because they don't know.

  • I mean, that's where it really gets you, the kids that come up to you and say that that really happened.

  • The Vietnam was like that.

  • I can't believe that you went back to ST in hospitals like that or ah, you know, some kids told Tom Cruise in his high school.

  • He told me that they thought we want Vietnam or that they didn't know the history of the war.

  • And for them, it was an eye opener to see something like born on the Fourth of July.

  • So that's pretty surprising.

  • You know that news that new generation, it's a blank slate.

  • Um, are there any particular scenes you hear about really stick out to people in any of the films that you have done?

  • I remember you talking about an audience, you know, maybe maybe they've seen it.

  • I understand the question.

  • Any particular scenes from any of the movies that people say that seemed really It said it to me.

  • It said what the experience of the sixties was, or Vietnam Woz.

  • I just wonder if there's anything in particular.

  • Uh, I mean every movie has he set scenes like, I guess, Midnight Express.

  • We were talking about the, uh, the scenery.

  • He bites out the fella's tongue, and I remember in Scarface who I got a lot of flak for this scene where Pacino's, uh, uh hung up on a hook in the bathroom and they cut off.

  • They cut up his friend, and, uh, they used a chainsaw on him.

  • And, uh, in Salvador.

  • Uh, I think the ending got a lot of people when he loses his girl with the border on duh platoon.

  • It's when I guess to Willem Dafoe was killed in the jungle, you know, and, uh, boring the Fourth of July.

  • A lot of people have been talking about the hospital.

  • That seems to, uh, but a lot of people talking about him and Defoe finding out in the desert, you know, uh, you know, it's a movie is like an elephant with a blind man that they also everybody sees something that I want to say.

  • Such a uh I really can't answer that question.

  • You've chosen film is the medium for expressing.

  • Um, what is it you want?

  • Is that your anger is your expression?

  • Is it your joy What is it you're looking for him to take out of the theater?

  • No, I'm just running a relay race in the sense of passing on my impressions of a time as I lived through it.

  • But I obviously haven't.

  • I read I depended on the raw material from other sources.

  • Uh, this is Ron Kovic story specifically and born the Fourth of July, and I'm passing on that information.

  • Two other people I don't want to impose my viewpoint on the, uh I'd like to be considered a social realist of the time.

  • One of one of them, like Zola Waas or Balzac Waas in another century in France or Dickins.

  • Who's my one of my heroes from England?

  • Uh, I think that movies cannot all be, you know, back to the future to in Harlem nights.

  • I don't condemn those films, but if we just make that type of movie, we're gonna have morons for kids and they're gonna they're not gonna get.

  • There's nothing there beyond on entertainment of two hours.

  • You know, you movie has I think that in addition to being entertaining, enjoyable is as an experience aesthetic experience has to have on underlying texture and underlying thing to Tiu to make you more conscious.

  • Or at least open your mind two on Alternative Way or to change.

  • And, uh, those are the kind of movies I think that really matter.

  • They matter to me.

  • When I was a kid, I believe in my heart that they will manage the kids always.

  • It's America a better place because of the six.

  • Of course it is.

  • Of course it is.

  • Sixties were good for America.

  • Let off some of the pressure cooker that existed, uh, that conformity was dangerous, that Cold War conformity the sixties really started question These things brought it out into the open and raised the possibility that hope and change and youth taking over the country and changing the mores and the standards of the country.

  • You know, it was very good time.

  • And, uh, as I said, it's it's, uh, it's hardly over.

  • It's still in us, and it's it's coursing through our veins right now.

  • Psychically, our generation is coming to power now, with the sixties, generation is coming to power, and the good people have not for gotten what the sixties promised room told 15 seconds.

  • Sure, this is official room time, starting now.

or two.

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ベトナムでの若き映画監督オリバー・ストーン--私の完全インタビュー (Young Film Director Oliver Stone On Vietnam -- My Complete Interview)

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    林宜悉 に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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