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  • UM two episode 230 of Sea XO talk.

  • I'm Michael Craig Zeman, industry analyst and your host for this show.

  • Today we are going to be speaking about video video in marketing and video in business, and we have two people who are two amazing people I'm going to introduce first.

  • David Hoffman, who is a not sure what the title would be, is a strategic communications consultant, and he's a guy who happens to have made about 175 documentaries for television.

  • It's a guy that knows a lot about video.

  • So, David, I tell us, tell us briefly, what do you do?

  • I've been doing the same thing my whole Korea, which is communication.

  • But what's communication?

  • My view is it's not what you say that the audience hears the audience.

  • Here's what you say and what they already think.

  • So my whole world is about engaging audiences.

  • Engagement means I got to know the audiences on.

  • I gotta know how they're going to react to any message in any media these days are merrily video.

  • Our second guest is Mark for Delmon, who runs a marketing agency.

  • Is it?

  • I'm not sure if that's the right term marketing agency or digital?

  • Yeah, digital marketing.

  • Gaea.

  • And so So.

  • Mark.

  • Hi.

  • Tell us about yourself.

  • I am Mark Edelman.

  • I do run fanatics.

  • Media to focus is for us.

  • And very happy to be here.

  • Michael and David.

  • Because I love talking about the subjects.

  • The 1st 1 being influencer marketing and the 2nd 1 being video marketing.

  • Why?

  • Why video?

  • Why should Why should business people care about video?

  • Why the marketing people care about video talks to anybody?

  • Sure.

  • Um, video is about emotion.

  • What do you do when you read the Wall Street Journal?

  • You skim it.

  • What do you do when you read a website page?

  • You skim it.

  • We all skim.

  • Nobody reads anymore.

  • Maybe we didn't.

  • I didn't read the book.

  • So video is about emotion.

  • Interesting statistic.

  • The eyeballs last longer.

  • Any other form of media that's on the web doesn't hold you like video.

  • So if the video has a good story and speaks to a target audience or an influence, or as Mark said, I'm interested in what he thinks about that, um then I say video is the most powerful way to affect an audience to make a change.

  • The key thing is this.

  • When the person watches a video of a a searcher, it's coming from YouTube.

  • So this guy found searchers that search wine, spot him and say, Whoa, I want to see that guy Or is it your friends?

  • Like on Facebook?

  • Two very different states of mind.

  • In one case, I'm searching for Dog Walker and not really the person whose video I'm watching in Facebook.

  • They already know me.

  • I want a dog walker.

  • They could hit me with a dog walker video, which is why Facebook sponsored posts are just off the charge.

  • Successful, he will say.

  • Been Yoshimi 30 seconds.

  • Video should be in one minute, no more than 90 seconds.

  • Let me tell you, I made a video on cancer for a guy who wrote a book on cancer nine minutes each.

  • Clint everybody watches.

  • It has, like a 90% viewership.

  • It's not about time, it's about the audience.

  • The audience cares, and this kid's telling me about a wine that I didn't know about.

  • And here in Northern California, people really care about wine.

  • Um, I'm gonna watch the whole thing.

  • I'm probably got a quick on his other videos.

  • It's enormously powerful when you spy speaking to the audience and trying to affect something, and you're a good character and you got a good story.

  • I don't know if Mark agrees with that.

  • Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

  • I kind of look at it a little bit slightly differently because not all those are Gary V.

  • I look at a longer the video, the higher the production quality or the higher the individual hair charisma has to be.

  • I gonna have to disagree with Mark about that.

  • It's ample.

  • I get going to use goes way back to my youth.

  • I don't know how many of you are watching this.

  • No.

  • Carville, it was Tahrir l a New York City ice cream.

  • And Tom Carvel produced these commercials, and the commercial said, Hi, I'm Tom Cargill.

  • I'm here in Rid Riverhead High Joe.

  • How you doing, Joe?

  • You make ice cream?

  • Is it fresh?

  • It was the most primitive.

  • An enormously powerful the same with Prady eight.

  • Crazy Eddie in New York.

  • I learned from that and I have found experimenting that my most popular videos for clients and for me Sorry for the phone are they're all after me.

  • Only the most popular videos are not the ones that look the best.

  • In fact, production value, isn't it?

  • Production value makes me think it's made by a company and its public relations rather than what I call user generated style.

  • And I, like user generated stop Michael's talking to me right now and I'm talking to you right in this little bucks just being me and Mark's being him.

  • That's the most powerful communication, in my view, this issue of charisma, how do we create videos that cut through the noise?

  • Here's what I think about don't think about noise.

  • Think about audience.

  • Mark probably agrees with me about that.

  • When I get down to, I have a video called, uh, it's about the United States equestrian team made by the team, So I've made it.

  • And in that one of my key words in YouTube was falling off horses.

  • 90% of the people who clicked that clicked my video in Google Edwards and watched the whole thing waiting from falling on fourth.

  • So it's about who is your audience is no noise.

  • If I have a certain cancer and 50,000 people have that cancer and you've got a drug that's gonna help me.

  • You may not have the drug I use, but I'm going to go to you.

  • Don't think about noise.

  • Noise is if I'm selling Pepsi.

  • If you're not selling Pepsi, but you're selling a brand, let's say BMW, it has a target on.

  • They have targets within the target.

  • Is it a woman?

  • Very different.

  • It's still making their ads on television for men.

  • I can't believe that.

  • Is it a millennial or a baby boomer like me?

  • There's not a single formula for success in breaking through the noise.

  • There is a lot of noise, but I agree with David.

  • You gotta find your your audience.

  • And if you stream it around a lot pretty soon, you'll be be able to develop that audience and speak that audience.

  • But I still think you gotta work on charisma.

  • I think Christmas just a function of Okay, be who you are.

  • There's there's a guy it does finance, and I'll look it up in between.

  • Ah, questions here that he's kind of dry speaks right at the camera, talks about finance, but this is this guy's phenomenally gets 3 to 400,000 views, and he's talking about financial subjects like stocks and bonds and all these obscure subject that you and I know nothing about.

  • But he makes it plainly visible at any demonstrates value by just talking in plain English what these things are.

  • Let me say something about what Marches said really powerful yourself.

  • Make mistakes.

  • When Reagan made a mistake in his press conference by saying, Look, I don't know the answer to that, he said to this member of the press, his ratings went higher than they had ever been.

  • I think 76% of the country's supported it be riel.

  • The issue on the Web with video is authenticity.

  • If that authenticity comes from a very well produced, beautiful musical comedy, okay, if it's come from you talking at the end of the day, you're tired.

  • A little bit of circles on the rise, but you're real.

  • You'll work with the audience.

  • Mark also has a part of his business.

  • I really am fascinated by which is the influences, because what influences do, and a lot of statistics on this if they something's gonna watch 30 seconds, but it's coming from an influencer.

  • We're gonna watch four minutes.

  • Yeah, it's er has enormous power, and I put them in front of the camera first of all, and make sure they're looking to me a camera.

  • This is video on the Web.

  • Don't look off like it's a press.

  • It's not the press present over here that could see that I'm here.

  • I'm talking to you right now.

  • Right into the little green dot On my Mac.

  • That's real important.

  • Second, I started off by saying, from behind the camera to the guy.

  • So, uh, are you nervous?

  • Yeah.

  • Yeah, a little bit nervous.

  • Me nervous.

  • It's something to be nervous.

  • You're nervous.

  • You're on media.

  • That's good.

  • It's good to be nervous.

  • Other thing I say which will help you all.

  • I think we have to go in front of the camera.

  • Think future video isn't about the moment.

  • It's about the future.

  • Somebody's seeing this in the future.

  • Therefore, what do you need to say where a month later?

  • A year later?

  • Obviously, it's going to have meaning for that person you're trying to reach you, Elsa.

  • Well said that Michael, I want to state David live video What do you think?

  • The differences between recorded video and live video?

  • My vote is some people are good live other people are not the introverts of our world.

  • Our tend not to be Mark and I are more extroverted and Michael is.

  • Michael has learned how to give his personality and rhythm and ed credibility without really attacking.

  • You are being as aggressive as Mark and I are.

  • So my vote is if you're not good on Facebook live or YouTube life, don't do it that for you.

  • So would you would you even ask they would you?

  • Would you instruct them to kind of practice it to see if you'll get good or they're just just happened in there?

  • Good.

  • Live like Broadway And there's other people that air good on screen because you know they needed practice apart 15 times before they go on a lot of times with selecting character's on the phone on the phone, right in the face.

  • So I use things like, Hey, do you like your work?

  • And if the guy goes No, no, no, he's not good in life.

  • Live people have definite thoughts about everything.

  • Even if they change their mind.

  • I really like this burger.

  • I don't know what it is, but the burger Wow, that's That's a certain kind of person.

  • He makes a definite statement.

  • So my vote is you're not so good on live if you want to contemplate its not a contemplated meeting.

  • Yeah, you know, when I started seeing so talk, the concept was live from the start and and and David's right, I am actually pretty introverted.

  • Although I've gotten used to doing this, I could be moderately good on video.

  • My mother is terrific.

  • One of the best political campaigns of this last season, I think it was in South Carolina, North Carolina.

  • A woman put her mother on to talk about her.

  • So always go to the most credible, authentic, charming character.

  • Talking about you is better than you.

  • Corporate leaders could do that.

  • I mean, they've got to be human beings.

  • Also, it can't just be reading Teleprompter.

  • Wonder what Mark thinks of the teleprompter.

  • I don't like using it.

  • I can't use it or I sound like a robot.

  • And then maybe back to what David said about live.

  • It's not a complete tell, but if they're good on stage and captivated audience on stage.

  • I've seen most them make the transition a live video, and they've been great.

  • Sometimes they're not looking into an eye of a camera's not a natural thing to do.

  • You really have to get used to it.

  • We have a question from Twitter and Arsalan.

  • Khan says most companies are thinking about video for their external audiences.

  • Is there a difference if you're creating video for an internal audience?

  • You bet.

  • Really Good question.

  • Two examples because examples help.

  • When who is Jane find his first husband?

  • Tom's up brother.

  • That guy, the senator.

  • When he was when he was running for the Senate, he said, I knew there was a problem with American car companies.

  • When my father, who worked in the Chrysler plant on a Honda because he saw a Chrysler commercial on television, he didn't believe.

  • When you speak to your internal audience, you've got to go right for it.

  • If you're firing 1000 people and you want to make a video that helps the other 19,000 think they're safe, you gotta acknowledge I feel awful about this.

  • You feel awful about this.

  • You see what I'm saying the credibility factor.

  • It's even higher when the corporation is talking to itself, because that's where the people know the truth.

  • We well know that, Yeah.

  • I mean, if I'm running a big corporation, I agree with David.

  • I would probably do a lot.

  • It probably live and recorded at the same time.

  • I do some kind of a three minute pitch to my employees and I you know, I'd make sure that I talk about the relevant items of the day, the week the month where we're headed.

  • You know, it's such a powerful thing.

  • Do and you know you could distribute it internally pretty easily and connect with every single one of those employees.

  • I was doing a commercial for Sikorski and Sikorsky helicopters, part of United Technologies, and who got most affected by this commercial, had to sell 100 corporate helicopters.

  • They did that.

  • Whose employees?

  • Why?

  • Because in the commercial, I honored the people who made it, and all of a sudden, the employees with something you know what you give a guy a raise, 25,000 bucks, 30,000 bucks gonna change his life.

  • You do something that his wife and kids or her husband and kids could see at home can feel I'm proud of what my dad or mom does.

  • Enormous change.

  • That's really what videos about for the employees matter.

  • Mark is absolutely right.

  • It's a really powerful Phil, but it will be unbelievable.

  • I want to know, How do you tell a story?

  • Well, I'll jump in, but I think David's give me better at this than me because of all of the stories that he's told in long form.

  • But I always like to look at the classics and draw lessons from the classics.

  • You know how they invoke emotion, villains, good endings.

  • And why are movies like what movies like Star Wars connect with the style?

  • Tell you what, really does it first start at the opening?

  • This is such a male thing, but it works for females.

  • Tell me what you're doing.

  • Female sometimes start stories to each other, particularly.

  • They wind the story out that doesn't work in video because nobody goes back.

  • So if I don't start off by telling you, what I'm gonna tell you now is a thing I learned that has worked for 100 people.

  • Now you said Okay, if you don't want to hear it, and this comes the other keeping.

  • You have no ear leads.

  • So if you're listening on a podcast or you don't turn the video if you're still listening, even if you're doing other stuff typing on the computer, you still listening.

  • Your ears are amazing.

  • So I say, Make the story of interest to the audience.

  • Tell the audience up front what it is.

  • I'm about to tell you why I feel it might be of some value to you and then run it in such a way that I'm surprised people kids love everybody loves.

  • Look at that.

  • Look at the news wish.

  • Yeah, yeah, great idea.

  • How many people go to Taco Bell laughing?

  • How many people go to talk about because it's cheap and they can feed the kids?

  • How many people go to Taco Bell?

  • Feel a little bit guilty?

  • That baby's gonna make him fat.

  • Who's your audience?

  • That's what you want to do.

  • I've run.

  • You won't believe this.

  • I've run.

  • I've taken YouTube ads that are three minutes long.

  • You can click off in five seconds.

  • I've got 50% of the audience watching the three minutes cause it doesn't look like commercial.

  • It's not trying to sell you anything.

  • It's pretty much the kind of videos you make workmen in commercials.

  • But how do you feel about conversions on those, David?

  • I mean, didn't you find them converting?

  • It's one thing to show a funny free minute segment, but are they really gonna sell your audience?

  • What do you want to reach?

  • They say everyone.

  • It's rarely everyone.

  • Yeah, it's Taco Bell it, everyone.

  • But if it's a nuclear power plant device at a G R heart device, letting everyone let's talk about YouTube and let's talk about we have a question again from Arslan Khan, who really raises a great point.

  • He says.

  • Do and video analytics help influencers become super sales people.

  • Or is it just got feeling?

  • I think it's both, really.

  • I mean, I look at what the influences they're studying.

  • I know we're studying in terms of analytics.

  • You can see how long they watch your video.

  • On average, you can even do it the individual level.

  • If you've got the right tools analytics, I use heavily.

  • No, I used two types of analytics.

  • I agree with Mark YouTube's pretty good really good seeing.

  • Where did somebody drop off?

  • Waited.

  • Most people drop all X number.

  • Drop off in the 1st 15 seconds and not your audience.

  • X number less the whole time of the video.

  • Interesting except a drop of 32% in.

  • That's also interesting because they might have lasted longer.

  • So I do use analytics.

  • But then I do something really strange.

  • I call somebody who's watching it.

  • I asked me, You know, you watch that video.

  • I like to call it because what people say gives you farm or insight into the emotional reaction they're having, which is said to be okay, David, what's the most common reaction?

  • Most common reaction is he's not talking to me.

  • I don't know why I'm listening.

  • I don't know why I'm watching.

  • That's not good.

  • That means either a person doesn't understand the audience or he's got the wrong one is in some videos I've done.

  • I get a 5% your ship.

  • 5% don't click off in 30 seconds.

  • Well, I want the flight percent.

  • I'm funny with that.

  • Those analytics really help David.

  • David.

  • How'd how How can we humanize our videos, which gets directly to the point of authenticity that you raised earlier, I say resonate with the audience, which is the key of people watching by being I'm not saying rial because that's the wrong word.

  • That means honest.

  • You don't need to be honest, honest sometimes.

  • Good, sometimes not.

  • Riel.

  • Really?

  • Like I'm not gonna tell you right now.

  • Why?

  • I know my Taco Bell is made with other ingredients, but I know it.

  • I could just take it is given that guy I trust.

  • I can't if you want to see what not to trust.

  • Watch commercials on television.

  • Everybody has got a DVR is speeding past them.

  • The advertising agencies.

  • Can you believe this?

  • Are still ignoring that?

  • That's what their viewers and doing this thing where we have 750 million views.

  • They did not the people that DVR ing that commercials are unbelievably fake.

  • Of the most part, even when they're faking being riel.

  • David and Michael.

  • You know what?

  • Some of the guys I work with brands a lot.

  • Maybe David does as well.

  • I'm sure he does.

  • A lot of them are afraid to make mistakes.

  • I mean, I'm doing a series of 12 episodes for a company now.

  • And my God, everything has got to be perfect now.

  • Fortunately, it's still coming across someone authentic.

  • But there is no room for mistakes.

  • You can't make a mistake or else they're serious repercussions.

  • At least they're telling themselves that.

  • So I'm wondering what David thinks about that, and I think you're from what I've seen.

  • That's the majority of brands that are producing their own videos less so about influencers because you know, they don't know the influencers already got a big audience.

  • They don't care if they make mistakes with their own audience.

  • If it's coming from the brand itself, I'm finding they're afraid to make mistakes and therefore not willing to take that step off initiate you're talking about.

  • Remember, there was a Time magazine ad once, which had a to power everything coming out of an oil company or something, and every single word was forced.

  • I haven't changed and that the answer was, Don't get a group to write a script, but you know that in the brands, often times has sent over the P r.

  • O.

  • God don't have a pistol over the marketing.

  • We defend it to the legal department So he's got this other business influences.

  • They can say the things make the mistakes be the rial that you can be.

  • I mean, that's I don't know how many agencies actually do what you do, Mark, but it's a very appealing way to get around the silliness inside the corporation off making a mistake.

  • I mean, personally, you know, for myself.

  • I work also with large companies and as well as with start ups.

  • And I think that that ear of making this snakes, which is the desire to to appear perfect and to present the image that we don't have any vulnerabilities.

  • It's such crap because the reality is that I mean, seriously right is bullshit.

  • Just look at United Airlines.

  • Can you believe united L.

  • It's that CEO ought to be trained by Mark and I and you, Michael, and to be a human being.

  • They trained the feelings out of their CEOs.

  • You know, that's what they do.

  • I've seen their training.

  • It's ridiculous.

  • Another good example.

  • Be Tylenol, and they came out, you know, after somebody had poisoned Tylenol, that was a good I think response to it.

  • But we still see these corporate hacks these executives that are towing whatever legal line that the PR company has told them, and they come across his own authentic people don't believe him, and it just makes matters worse and worse.

  • And I think David, you've highlighted what happened at United Education Point.

  • As Marc and I both know, understand the brand is a critical thing, and they may provide great insights.

  • Do that.

  • But the communicant to an audience requires the audience or communicating to which these public of fast people don't have a clue about.

  • You put those two things together and you make messaging.

  • You make power on video.

  • In my view, I'd like to go back to the notion of ah, building an audience, and I realized that it all starts with understanding, understanding the audience, communicating to the audience, evoking emotions and being trustworthy.

  • But I also want I want to know the cheap tricks.

  • I want to know how I could get more people to watch my stuff.

  • The easiest and fastest way to build an audience on YouTube or Facebook video is to invite them to subscribe and given them give them an incentive, you something that will get them sense of surprise to your videos because on YouTube, unlike Twitter, when you subscribe most of the time, depending on you know whether you tubes hiccupping or not most of time, they get alert that there's a new video been posted.

  • Hey, go take a look at this and they walked on the mobile.

  • I watched your best top.

  • For me.

  • YouTube is probably the number one place most people should be focusing, followed closely by Facebook video.

  • But if you think about it, YouTube has got a big advantage with s yo value mark.

  • Once we've got a video and we want to market it and we want to put it out there, what's the best way to do it?

  • Well, I mean, David stole my thunder.

  • As usual, Influencers are the best for two reasons.

  • One is organic reach because they're introducing your video to their audience.

  • It's all organic.

  • Second, you can pay for it on, and you can pay for it on Facebook and YouTube and Facebook will be better targeted.

  • But YouTube does a great job of targeting as well, so that's another way very inexpensive.

  • You can get it down to a target audience 2 to 3 cents in some industries.

  • Purview.

  • I mean, that's phenomenal.

  • You couldn't do this couple of years ago.

  • Ah, and then thirdly is sharing on your other channels and encourage your employees, especially if you're in a big organization at the share it internally.

  • The employee base is enormously powerful.

  • They're spread, is so great that when you're lucky enough to do something that you ask them to through, you know, employee engagement programs, wisdom to share it skyrockets viewers.

  • That means something, not just viewers.

  • Viewers.

  • That means something.

  • Thanks so much.

  • Everybody have a great day and we will see.

UM two episode 230 of Sea XO talk.

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