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  • Before our main story tonight,

  • I'd like to do something a little different

  • and just quickly tell you about a beloved icon

  • of my childhood, and it's this man...

  • WOMAN: For 20 years he made the dreams of young people

  • come true,

  • with his hugely popular Jim'll Fix It program.

  • Best known for his trademark jewelry,

  • track suits, tinted glasses, and Havana cigar.

  • Now, I know it's hard to believe,

  • but that bizarre looking man, Jimmy Savile,

  • was a national hero.

  • We named places for him, we gave him a knighthood,

  • we even put up this statue of him,

  • even though it clearly looks more like

  • a cheese sculpture of George Carlin

  • -that someone left in the sun. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • Now, he had a show called Jim'll Fix It,

  • where he basically granted wishes.

  • And like many British kids, I actually wrote to him.

  • I asked him

  • to make me the mascot for Liverpool football club,

  • and he never wrote back.

  • Which I'm actually glad about, because after he died,

  • Britain began to find out who he really was.

  • And the truth was horrific.

  • He's gone from a much loved entertainer,

  • and respected charity fundraiser,

  • to a man described by Scotland Yard

  • as a predatory sex offender.

  • Jimmy Savile's headstone was here

  • for less than three weeks.

  • His epitaph read, "It was good while it lasted."

  • Oh!

  • That is an unsettling thing

  • to have written on his gravestone.

  • Although to be fair, nearly every famous epitaph

  • would sound horrifying written on a sex offender's gravestone.

  • From Dean Martin's "Everybody loves somebody sometime,"

  • to Rodney Dangerfield's "There goes the neighborhood."

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -You know, funny, funny.

  • But if he'd been a sex offender,

  • not so much.

  • The point is, Savile's headstone was taken down,

  • as was that sign, and that creepy statue,

  • because once we found out that he was a monster,

  • we accepted it was no longer appropriate

  • to publicly glorify him.

  • Which actually brings us to our main story tonight...

  • the Confederacy.

  • America's tracksuit sex offender.

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -Now, in recent years,

  • there has been a robust debate over Confederate symbols.

  • From flags being taken down, to statues being removed,

  • to the white nationalist rallies in Charlottesville.

  • Both the one that ended in violence in August,

  • and another that happened just last night.

  • So as this debate is clearly not going away,

  • we wanted to take a look at some of the arguments.

  • Because you don't have to look hard

  • to find people very upset

  • at the idea of Confederate statues being taken away.

  • You can't change history.

  • You can't pick and choose what you decide is history.

  • I think they oughta just leave 'em alone

  • and leave 'em where they are, you know.

  • They're part of history.

  • I just don't think we can erase our history.

  • It may not represent the best idea...

  • that anybody ever came up with.

  • But nevertheless, it's part of our history.

  • And, uh, I think it should stay there.

  • You know what, I'll give him this, he is right

  • that the Confederacy and everything that came with it

  • is, to put it mildly, "not the best idea...

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -anybody ever came up with."

  • Because that of course is making grilled cheese

  • on a toaster turned sideways.

  • That is a billion-dollar idea

  • that is also completely worthless.

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -But they're also right

  • about one thing.

  • We should remember our history,

  • so tonight, let's do that.

  • And let's look at the unique heritage of these symbols.

  • Starting with the fact that there are a lot more

  • than you might expect.

  • REPORTER: The Southern Poverty Law Center

  • found some 1,500 Confederate memorials across the country.

  • More than 700 of them are statues and monuments,

  • and ten U.S. military bases

  • are named for Confederate officers.

  • Think about that.

  • There are U.S. military bases named for Confederate officers.

  • And they were the enemy. They killed U.S. soldiers.

  • That's like finding out that Nancy Kerrigan

  • -named her child Tonya Harding. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • Why would you do that? That's a weird choice.

  • And tributes to the Confederacy are everywhere in the South,

  • and notably some in the North too.

  • And that map doesn't include kitschy ways

  • that the Civil War is presented, like at this family restaurant:

  • ANNOUNCER: Dolly Parton's Dixie Stampede

  • brings a rip roaring taste of America to life.

  • Dixie's Stampede is a musical extravaganza

  • of sight and sound.

  • Centered around a friendly North-South rivalry,

  • friendly servers bring the delicious four course feast

  • right to you.

  • Including a whole rotisserie chicken,

  • and all the Pepsi, iced tea, or coffee you like.

  • Yes. That is a Confederate soldier

  • serving a small child all the Pepsi she likes.

  • Which is still remarkably

  • only Pepsi's second worst ad campaign.

  • (AUDIENCE LAUGHING AND CHEERING)

  • And the thing is if you grew up with experiences like that,

  • it can seem like the Civil War is just a friendly rivalry.

  • A fun, colorful part of U.S. history.

  • But that omits the key fact about the Civil War.

  • The Confederacy was fighting for the preservation of slavery.

  • And that's not my opinion, that is just a fact.

  • There are many ways that we know this.

  • Slavery is mentioned in multiple state's

  • declarations of secession

  • with Mississippi saying,

  • "Our position is thoroughly identified

  • with the institution of slavery."

  • The Confederate Constitution contains a clause

  • enshrining slavery forever.

  • And then there's the speech Alexander Stephens,

  • the Confederate vice president gave in 1861,

  • in which he articulated the basic principles

  • for the Confederate nation.

  • ALEXANDER STEPHENS: Its foundations are laid.

  • Its cornerstone rests upon the great truth

  • that the Negro is not equal to the white man.

  • That slavery, subordination to the superior race,

  • is his natural and normal condition.

  • Wow. Subordination to the superior race.

  • That is explicit.

  • If the Confederacy was not about slavery,

  • somebody should really go back in time

  • and tell the fucking Confederacy that.

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -And yet, remarkably,

  • many people think the Civil War was over something else.

  • REPORTER 2: When people were asked, "What do they think

  • the main cause of the Civil War is?"

  • 48% said, "Mainly about states' rights."

  • Only 38% said, "Mainly about slavery."

  • Nine percent said "both."

  • And that is amazing.

  • Only 38% thought the Civil War was mainly about slavery.

  • In other words, look to your left,

  • now look to your right,

  • statistically all three of you live in a country

  • where only 38% percent of people

  • -think the Civil War was mainly about slavery. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • And on that "states' rights" argument, for the record,

  • the Southern states were ardently pro-states' rights.

  • But with some glaring exceptions.

  • Notably, when Northern states

  • passed laws to help protect runaway slaves,

  • the South wanted the federal government

  • to override those states laws.

  • So, they loved states' rights,

  • as long as they were the right states' rights.

  • The wrong states' rights would be states' wrongs,

  • wrongs which would need to be righted

  • by the right states' rights-- look, to put it really simply,

  • they just wanted to own black people,

  • -and they didn't much care how. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • That's a fact!

  • But that's a very hard fact for some people to accept.

  • Especially if a member of your family

  • fought for the Confederacy.

  • And sometimes, the understandable desire

  • to want to distance your relative from that cause

  • can lead to people distorting the cause itself.

  • Just watch as one man

  • at a community meeting in North Carolina

  • defended a Confederate statue

  • by talking about his family history.

  • My great grandfather was a Confederate soldier.

  • And I was proud of that.

  • Because my opinion of his fight

  • was for his rights.

  • I don't know what his rights were.

  • I wasn't there.

  • He was dead long before I came along.

  • But I'm really concerned about our monument.

  • I want it to stay.

  • It reminds me that I got a little rebel in me.

  • You know, we all want to kind of be independent.

  • We all have a little rebel in us, even the ladies.

  • -Ooh! Even the ladies! -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • Hashtag feminism, hashtag confedera-she.

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING, APPLAUDING) -And look, look.

  • I don't know, I don't know

  • why his great grandfather fought.

  • It is hard to know the motivations

  • of any individual soldier.

  • What we do know is that again, collectively,

  • they were fighting to preserve the institution of slavery.

  • And I do get, honestly, I honestly get

  • wanting a more comfortable history for your family.

  • But in doing so, you can't invent

  • a more comfortable history for your country.

  • Because you would be erasing the actual painful experiences

  • of many Americans.

  • As a fellow North Carolinian explains.

  • When I walk by this statue, I-- it becomes very painful

  • when I think of the suffering that my ancestors went through.

  • They enslaved people.

  • Abused people for their own economic impact.

  • And it should not be celebrated by these statues.

  • Right. And that is the harsh reality

  • of what was done by those Confederate men.

  • And yes, even the ladies,

  • -hashtag confedera-she. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • If you want to see a perfect crystallization

  • of what happens when two people have

  • wildly different views of the same symbol,

  • just watch this local news clip.

  • Why do you carry that flag?

  • Because this is my heritage.

  • My family fought to save their farm

  • under this flag.

  • Who was working that farm?

  • Ooh!

  • (AUDIENCE LAUGHING IN DISBELIEF)

  • That is a good, tough question.

  • And the news clip actually cut out there,

  • but we were so intrigued to find out what his response was

  • we tracked it down.

  • And whatever you are expecting, you're going to be surprised.

  • -MAN: Who was working that farm? -My family was!

  • -Who was working the farm? -They were poor,

  • Do you know how much a slave cost back then?!

  • -(AUDIENCE SHOUTING) -Oh! Whoa, whoa, whoa!

  • You know you are in the wrong

  • when you decide your best argument

  • is screaming at a black man,

  • "Do you know how expensive you used to be?!"

  • It is--

  • It is comments like that one

  • that landed this guy on the cover of

  • Holy Shit That Is Not Remotely The Point magazine.

  • (AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • And look, that-- that is clearly an intense example.

  • But denial of this painful part of history

  • can take many forms.

  • Look at PBS's Finding Your Roots,

  • where Henry Louis Gates explores

  • celebrities' family histories,

  • and he often finds some shit.

  • Famously, Ben Affleck pulled strings

  • to get the show to remove all references

  • to his slave-owning ancestors.

  • And though he later apologized,

  • that impulse right there is not good.

  • Because it sanitizes history.

  • And while there is no easy way to respond

  • to learning that kind of horrible information,

  • it is worth watching Anderson Cooper find out

  • how one relative of his died.

  • Boykin was murdered by a rebellious slave.

  • Wow.

  • Your ancestor was beaten to death

  • with a farm hoe.

  • (LAUGHS) Oh my God.

  • That's amazing. This is incredible.

  • (LAUGHS)

  • I am blown away.

  • -You think he deserved it? -ANDERSON COOPER: Yeah.

  • -Wow. You know what? -(AUDIENCE CLAPPING)

  • You know what, as a general rule,

  • just try not to live a life

  • ...that could lead a descendant of yours to one day say,

  • "A guy smashed grand-poppy's head in

  • with a garden hoe?

  • That's amazing. Great job 'That Guy!'"

  • (LAUGHING)

  • But, my absolute favorite response

  • to a nasty surprise,

  • undoubtedly comes from Larry David,

  • who received a real one-two punch.

  • Are you telling me that my great-grandfather

  • fought for the South?

  • In the Civil War?

  • (LAUGHS) What? Are you kidding?

  • Oh, my goodness...

  • I hope no slaves show up on this--

  • Please turn the page.

  • (MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER HOLLERS)

  • Now, Larry, this is another part of the 18th--

  • Oh-- oh, you did it! You did it!

  • -I knew it! I knew it! -(GATES LAUGHING)

  • -Unbelievable! -Unbelievable.

  • Boy.

  • HENRY LOUIS GATES JR: That's b-- unbelievable.

  • Oh boy, oh boy.

  • -Yeah. Prettay, prettay, -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • pretty bad!

  • Pretty bad!

  • And look!

  • Larry David is not responsible

  • for what his ancestors did.

  • None of us are.

  • I have to believe that, because I'm English.

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -And I would like to go

  • to an Indian restaurant again at some point in my life.

  • (LAUGHING CONTINUES)

  • But-- but we do have to reckon personally, and as a country

  • with what our heritage means.

  • You can't ignore it like Batman,

  • you can't say it's something else

  • like town meeting Santa,

  • you've got to actively, painfully,

  • come to grips with slavery,

  • and the lasting benefits and disadvantages

  • that if conferred.

  • In ways that, frankly, we haven't yet.

  • And that actually brings us back to Confederate monuments,

  • because there is something about them that

  • that symbolizes our reluctance to have that conversation

  • and that is the dates that they went up.

  • Because while some initial memorials

  • were built mainly in cemeteries, shortly after the Civil War,

  • the real surge came much, much later.

  • MALE REPORTER 1: The Southern Poverty Law Center

  • says a majority

  • of the more than 700 Confederate monuments

  • in public spaces across the country,

  • were erected decades after General Lee's surrender.

  • It's true, as this chart

  • of the years that they were dedicated shows,

  • there was a big spike from 1900 to 1920

  • as white southerners were re-asserting their dominance

  • through things like Jim Crow laws,

  • uh, with another spike in the 50s and 60s

  • as the Civil Rights Movement was gaining steam,

  • so those statues weren't so much

  • commemorating recently fallen dead,

  • as sending a pretty hostile message

  • to African-Americans.

  • And sending messages is kind of what statues are often for.

  • This one says, "We love freedom."

  • This one says,

  • "The most notable thing about our city

  • -is a fictional character." -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • (STAMMERS) And this one says, "About yay big."

  • -(LAUGHING CONTINUES) -We still don't know...

  • what he was trying to measure, but whatever it was,

  • -it was... "About yay big." -(LAUGHING CONTINUES)

  • But... look, for some Confederate statues though,

  • for some Confederate statues the intent is crystal clear.

  • In that town meeting from before,

  • the statue that they were debating

  • was this one, which went up in 1914

  • and a leader of that county's chapter of the KKK

  • gave a speech at its dedication,

  • calling the occasion an opportunity

  • "To recall the achievements of the great and good

  • of our own race and blood."

  • Which, again, is pretty on-the-nose right there.

  • And the largest Confederate memorial,

  • the carving on Stone Mountain in Georgia,

  • is located where the 20th century KKK was born.

  • It depicts three Confederate leaders

  • on horseback, and it was completed in 1972,

  • so that means there is color footage

  • of the dedication.

  • After nearly half a century of work, the memorial carving

  • here at Stone Mountain is finally finished.

  • And officials are calling it the eighth wonder of the world.

  • We must recall those principals of loyalty, dignity and honor

  • that shine through the lives of men

  • we commemorate today.

  • Yes. That was Vice President Spiro Agnew

  • commemorating the loyalty of literal traitors.

  • But, what can you really expect from a man whose name,

  • rearranged, spells "Grow a Penis."

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -And...

  • and some-- here's the thing.

  • Some monuments went up even more recently.

  • I-- I wanna show you one

  • that was erected on private lands,

  • but very much for public consumption.

  • Because once you see it, you will not forget it.

  • MALE REPORTER 2: The statue was erected in 1998.

  • It portrays Nathan Bedford Forrest

  • on his horse.

  • Gun in one hand, and sword in the other.

  • Surrounded by Confederate state battle flags,

  • visible for all to see on the side of I-65.

  • (CARS DRIVING BY)

  • MALE REPORTER 2: Forrest was a Confederate general

  • -and an early leader of the KKK. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • That is just objectively terrifying

  • regardless of context.

  • He looks like if a nickel did cocaine.

  • -(LAUGHING CONTINUES) -So-- so some of these statues

  • commemorate people who thought a war to preserve slavery,

  • were erected to preserve white supremacy

  • and were dedicated by Klan members and yet,

  • there is a blanket defense

  • that tends to get authored by people

  • and not just people, also, this guy.

  • They're trying to take away... our culture.

  • They're trying to take away our history.

  • Okay, that argument is taking these statues down

  • obliterates history, which is clearly just ridiculous.

  • First, monuments are not how we record history,

  • books are.

  • Museums are.

  • Ken Burns 12-part mini-series are.

  • Statues are how we glorify people.

  • Or, in the case of one in Tokyo, how we glorify

  • giant radioactive lizards.

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -And yet,

  • the President's concern seems to be

  • that tearing down statues leads to a slippery slope.

  • This week it's Robert E. Lee.

  • I noticed that

  • Stonewall Jackson's coming down,

  • I wonder, is it George Washington next week?

  • And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after?

  • You know, you all--

  • you really do have to ask yourself,

  • "Where does it stop?"

  • Okay, well, I'll tell you where it stops.

  • Somewhere.

  • Anytime someone asks, "Where does it stop?"

  • The answer is always, "Fucking somewhere!"

  • You might let your kid have Twizzlers,

  • but not inject black-tar heroin.

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -You d-- you don't just go,

  • "Well, after the Twizzlers, where does it stop?"

  • -(LAUGHING CONTINUES) -And the same is true

  • of Confederate monuments.

  • Think of it this way, all people, living and dead,

  • exist on what I'm gonna call The Hitler-Hanks spectrum,

  • from bad to good.

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING, CHEERING) -And at some point

  • on the spectrum,

  • monuments to honor people are going to be inappropriate.

  • Although it-- to be fair,

  • it does get tricky around the middle,

  • where, of course, you'll fine Adolf Hankler.

  • -(LAUGHING CONTINUES) -And-- and look,

  • there are clearly people deserving of statues

  • who were imperfect humans.

  • And sometimes our standards change over time,

  • which can then get tricky,

  • because you're judging historical figures

  • by modern standards.

  • But for many Confederate monuments,

  • especially those erected well after the Civil War,

  • valorizing the cause

  • or leadership of the Confederacy,

  • this really isn't a close call.

  • This is your babysitter showing up

  • in a Jimmy Savile t-shirt.

  • I don't care what you think that represents,

  • you're not staying home with my fucking kid tonight.

  • (AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • And for Robert E. Lee in particular,

  • it's actually even easier because of this.

  • MALE REPORTER 1: Interestingly, Robert E. Lee was once asked

  • about placing memorials at Gettysburg in 1869.

  • The former general replied,

  • "I think it wiser... not to keep open the sores of war,

  • but to follow the examples of those nations

  • who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife,

  • to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered."

  • It's true. Robert E. Lee was opposed to statues

  • of people like Robert E. Lee.

  • So, any city that decides to keep a statue of him

  • should at the very least add a speech bubble saying,

  • "You know, I told you all specifically, not to do this."

  • (AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

  • So-- so what do we do now?

  • Well-- well, I would argue that nothing is not acceptable,

  • and-- and trying to paper over the cracks

  • can actually make things worse.

  • In the 1990s, Richmond tried to fix its Monument Avenue,

  • a street lined with statues of Confederate leaders

  • by adding African-American tennis legend,

  • Arthur Ashe to it.

  • And you can't just give Confederates a black friend

  • and say, "We're good, right?"

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -We're good! Arthur's up there!

  • You love Arthur!

  • So-- so, if we really want to learn from,

  • and honor our history, perhaps the first step

  • might be to put most of these statues

  • somewhere more appropriate,

  • surrounded by ample historical context,

  • like in a museum.

  • Where people go to proactively learn about history,

  • and also to punish their children.

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -And please,

  • try not to think of this as a loss,

  • because it's actually a real opportunity,

  • and I'll show you, please.

  • Come with me.

  • -♪ (PATRIOTIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ -Because if and when

  • a pleat becomes empty,

  • that is a chance for your area to honor someone

  • who really deserves it.

  • A-- And I have some-- some ideas for replacements

  • that I would love to run by you.

  • First, Beaufort County, South Carolina,

  • how about a giant statue of...

  • Robert Smalls here?

  • He was born into slavery.

  • He stole a Confederate boat, and he sailed it to freedom,

  • and later served five terms in Congress.

  • This guy is amazing.

  • Atlanta, Texas.

  • You are the birthplace to...

  • Bessie Coleman.

  • The first African-American woman pilot.

  • -(AUDIENCE CHEERING) -Why would you not want this in your town? She's incredible!

  • Now, Florida.

  • You might not want an individual,

  • but how 'bout something that honors

  • what your state represents?

  • Something that says,

  • "You've got a little rebel in you."

  • So, I give you this statue

  • of your official state reptile...

  • -(AUDIENCE LAUGHING) -an alligator

  • giving everyone the finger.

  • He's called Herman,

  • and he definitely says Florida,

  • while also having nothing to do with slavery.

  • And finally, finally, there is Charleston,

  • and to you, I say this.

  • Why have a divisive, Confederate statue when instead,

  • that pedestal can be filled by your favorite son,

  • -(AUDIENCE CHEERING) -the actual Stephen Colbert,

  • who will stand up there all day

  • telling you fun facts about your wonderful town.

  • -JOHN OLIVER: Right? -Yes.

  • -OLIVER: Really? -Yes.

  • Charleston. Charleston.

  • Charleston is the site of the first free public library

  • -in America. -That's fascinating, Stephen.

  • Every year, we host Zugunruhefest,

  • the Southeast's most comprehensive

  • migration-focused birding festival.

  • That sounds incredible, I'll google it!

  • See Charleston?

  • You can have this 24 hours a day,

  • seven days a week.

  • I-- I actually need to do my show five days a week.

  • Five! How?

  • (AUDIENCE CHUCKLING)

  • (WHISPERS) I don't know. I don't know.

  • Ooh! We're also Travel and Leisure's

  • number one U.S. destination for the last five years running.

  • -(AUDIENCE CHEERING) -Come on Charleston, you can have this in your life!

  • That's our show, thank you so much for watching.

  • See you next week. Goodnight!

Before our main story tonight,

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連合国先週の今夜、ジョン・オリバーと一緒に (HBO) (Confederacy: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO))

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    Aprilgogo に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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