just markedly, with 'mall Santas'.

What is the solution to US economic problems

like this jobs crisis?

We often have guests on, who talk about sound money, or regulations

but how about an entire new, not just economic system

but social system, too?

It sounds obviously very radical but that is just what

Peter Joseph of The Zeitgeist Movement is arguing for

and he is going to explain how and why exactly, that would work.

Peter, it's so nice to have you on the show. I'll just get right to it.

We have guests on the show who advocate for different solutions

to the criticisms of the current economic system

from debt jubilees to better regulations, private industry

sounder money. You argue for just

getting rid of free market capitalism as we know it

and completely overhauling the social system.

Why do you think that's the solution?

As all well and good as those things are

and thank you, Lauren, for having me

the real crutch here is the structural and psychological flaws

that this system creates. The unemployment crisis, the debt crisis

the public health crisis, the poverty crisis

the energy crisis that's looming

and the immense social destabilization you're seeing

are actually systemic causes of

the fatal flaws of this system at the core logic.

I can expand on any one of those topics that you like.

If you take what you just covered in this broadcast:

the unemployment crisis. - Ok

- The unemployment crisis is really driven by technology.

That's very important for people to understand because

unfortunately many aren't talking about this.

We have an exponential increase in information technology

coupled with invention, material invention, manufacturing

and all the other sectors, the service sectors

design revolutions that are happening with artificial intelligence

eliminating the necessity for human occupations

and it's exponentially increasing, and increasing more rapidly

as this decline occurs because

it's more affordable for corporations to automate.

They don't have to pay insurance and vacations.

If you look closely, this is the systemic element.

Does that mean technology is bad? No, it means that

human evolution is moving in a certain path

that is literally making obsolete the current social system

in that attribute that I've just mentioned

but I'll pause there and let you continue. - Thank you

and we'll get more into this. To stick to what you brought up

which is jobs we were talking about, certainly

you can talk about the technological component of job loss

but let me get to another one, what about, just for example

the industry of construction in this country

which we saw kind of totally decimated

with the housing bubble, which popped

and this gets to the issue of debt, which I know is an issue

that you talk about. Can you talk about the role of debt

and the limitations of it in our monetary system?

- Well, sure. You kind of have this bubble equality with debt.

You notice many people talk about debt jubilee

and debt forgiveness now. I heard one economist say

that we should just forgive debt every 50 years

and that doesn't really address the fundamental problem, does it?

Basically we have our money produced out of debt.

Money's made out of debt, whether it comes from the central banks

or from the private banks. The private banks manipulate money

loan it at interest to people, and there's the interest component

which doesn't exist in the money supply.

You have an infinite amount of debt, increasing constantly

throughout the entire world

and that is why we are in the staggering state that we're in

suffocating us on so many different levels:

just look at medical debts, look at student loan debts

look at all of the deprivation that's being caused of that.

That's one side of it, which is

to my view, a completely sick social experiment.

It's a horrible thing to do to human society

even impose this fictional element on them, to impose them

which brings me to my other point, which is that

debt serves as a form of (for lack of better expression) slavery.

It's an imposition of scarcity, which forces people into positions

that they typically wouldn't take for their purposes of integrity or education

but they have to, usually at less expense to the corporations.

In a way, it's great for the corporate system on a certain level

to a certain threshold, to have many inhibited people that have no freedom

to be in debt. A running joke in my community is that

when you get out of college, most likely you have $80,000 worth of debt.

You're 'ripe' to be enslaved into a corporate system

that doesn't have to give in to your interests or take care of you.

- You argue debt is slavery; you have some other criticisms of it as well.

We've seen the cause of it right now in so many of the issues

that we cover everyday on this show: in the Eurozone crisis

with public debt, that's obviously just one side of it.

My question then: Is this why you want to ditch the monetary system

and if so how do you reward work and sacrifice that people make?

- The removal of the monetary system I believe will occur

regardless of my intents. It's a natural evolution of human society.

All the mechanisms that have kept this system in place are phasing out

by default, and the social destabilization that's on the horizon

(I don't even have to do anything, I'm just trying to help)

is going to cause some type of change

and I hope, and the people that I work with, we hope

it will move into sane direction and not something equally as sinister

as what we've been seeing for the past 20 generations.

The issue of incentive is a common supporting argument

with respect to how people defend the free market system.

They say "If people don't have a direct material incentive to work

(a reward, carrot stick) then they won't have any initiative to do so."

The first thing I would say, is that scientifically a lot of research's been done

to show when it comes to creative interests

people are not motivated by money.

Money seems to be inhibiting people's creative effects.

It's only mechanical operations like working on a factory line

or waiting tables (things that can easily be automated

if we applied our technology) that people need that reward

because it's so mundane.

The true ability and best resource on the planet is the human mind

and to free that mind, to enable it to be creative.

That's the beauty of our technological evolution at this point.

On a second level, noting that scientific validity

that incentive is not always the case for people to be operational

we have other incentives in society that are not directly material

that are very rewarding that if people broaden their horizon

they would see. The incentive to be able to walk out of your home

and not be worried about someone robbing you

because they live in a deprived environment:

pointing a gun and taking your resources

putting all those locks on our doors.

Most of the crime we see in the world is related to money

one way or another and deprivation through the monetary system.

Another incentive is the removal of war, the removal of poverty.

Imagine having the satisfaction of knowing there aren't one billion people

starving on this planet? There is a deeply social element in us

that is coming to fruition. It has to for our survival.

I believe that our personal interest must become social interest

it has to. It really is already there, but we just don't know it yet.

We don't think about it that way.

Until that happens we have a lot of big things on the horizon.

One final point I'll say about incentive, how about this as a classic example?

We have all sorts of immense military revolutions happening right now.

They're going to make the atomic bomb look like a Roman catapult.

What's going to happen when we have these advanced technologies

and the immature society we do now based on this

farce social Darwinism, this tribal mentality

this sovereign war mentality: everyone fighting amongst themselves

the assumption that we can't get along.

What's going to happen when we have the advanced technologies

that can be pulled off the shelf, through molecular engineering

that can wipe out whole continents on a whim?

This is a very real thing and in the words of Albert Einstein:

"Our technology has exceeded our humanity."

It's very important that our values come in line

and that's explicit to our new socially-conscious revolution

that has to come from the basis of the economic system.

- Peter, there is so much more I want to get to because you have

so many interesting points of view that I want to get more into.

Since we last spoke, Occupy Wall Street has happened

where we see people protesting the economic system

on the streets of the US. I want to talk about more of these things.

We're going to go to a quick break but we will be back

with director and filmmaker Peter Joseph.

With Occupy Wall Street all over the nation

we have seen people come out onto the streets

to protest the economic system itself

and director and filmmaker Peter Joseph is one

who advocates for a total overhaul.

We're going to get more into what he thinks of this Movement

and what he thinks of changes to the economic system.

Peter, let's get back into this because as I said

Occupy Wall Street is on the streets, protesting the economic system.

It's also a leaderless movement.

I'm curious if you see

them as having their intentions in the right place?

- Intentions absolutely, but until answers are proposed

until people get together and think about the solution

not much is going to be accomplished unfortunately.

It's an awareness protest movement. It's really important what they're doing.

I think it's really another systemic outgrowth of destabilization.

I've been expecting this type of thing to happen for a long time.

Occupy Wall Street and the Global Occupy Movement

(which is really the most important attribute of it

because this isn't just about Wall Street

this isn't just about the US).

It is really about the total global financial system

and the inherent flaws of the market system

even though many people in The Movement don't even discuss those issues.

They're just expressing their angst and rightly so.

What I would like to state though, is that

the 1% are not something to be demonized per se.

The 1% are simply the best game players in this game strategy

that's been generated. The 99% have let the 1% come to their place

as easily as anything because the 99% have been supporting

all the mechanisms that enabled the 1%.

This system is based on a structural classism.

It's always in favor of the wealthy and

I don't mean that just from lobbying and government intervention.

The very basis of the structure from the banking, the loan

and interest system, really support that.

If The Occupy Movement really wants to get down to brass tacks

they're really going to have start addressing these root issues

that I talk about, that my Movement talks about

and many others talk about, and then think about

what the solution is. I really believe in the Buckminster Fuller notion

that it's not about fighting some system anymore.

It's about building a new design that makes the other one obsolete

and getting the public to understand it, and then the game is basically over.

- It's a kind of evolution that you talk about but I'm just really curious

how you do that, and how long you see that needing to take

because I don't know if you saw the Black Friday videos

of people attacking each other for $2 waffle-makers?

I'm going to play a tiny montage for our audience.

I'm sure you can imagine from the noise what's going on in them.

(Crowd noise)

(Security guard) Everybody get back!

(Siren hoots)

- Peter, it sounds like riots, it looks a little like riots

unfortunately it's people clamoring for video games.

I wouldn't want to get caught up in between them and their video games.

How do you get between them and their video games

and how long is that going to take?

- Good question. I'd like to point out that before World War II