So if you have little ones around, grab your headphones now.

Hey, it’s Marie Forleo and you are watching MarieTV, the place to be to create a business

and life you love.

You know, last year I stumbled across a blog post that I loved so much.

And it wasn’t just me, about a million other people loved it too.

Now, little warning, if you are not a fan of the F-word I need you just shut off this

episode right now, press stop, press pause, change the channel or something, because this

does contain a lot of the F-word and I don't wanna get any emails, tweets, or messages

that I didn't warn you.

Ok?

But if you’re ok with that word, I do think you should stick around because we’re talking

about something important today, which is about how to hone in on the things that really

matter so you can stop caring about the things that don't.

Mark Manson is a New York Times bestselling author, blogger, and entrepreneur.

Mark is known for his unique brand of life advice or, as he puts it, personal development

that doesn't suck.

His writing has been featured on Forbes, Time, and CNN among others and his website, MarkManson.net,

boasts over 2 million readers a month.

His new bestselling book is called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck: A Counterintuitive

Approach to Living a Good Life, where he talks about how the key to living a better life

isn’t caring about more, but rather focusing on less.

Mark, thank you so much for being on the show.

Thanks for having me.

So I’m really curious, I want you to take me back to the blog post that inspired all

of this goodness.

Yeah.

What inspired you to write the original blog post that inspired the book?

I had the idea for the title for years, and the way I work with my articles is I don't…

I don't plan them.

I just kinda brainstorm a bunch of different ideas and then when it comes time to write

something I just look at it and pick whatever feels good.

So this title sat on my little sheet for like 2, 3 years, and it’s such a good title that

I was like I need to come up with something that, you know, deserves the fucks.

I can say fuck, right?

We’ve totally given the best warning ever and I’ve told everyone, like, if they give

me any shit about saying fuck that they need to shut the fuck up because we’ve already

warned them.

Alright, cool.

So it was actually… it was, like, a dreary Saturday and I just started feeling very…

I was kind of down and when I get down I start feeling very sarcastic and irreverent and

just like to write a bunch of bullshit.

And so I was like I’m gonna sit down, I’m going to write an article, and it’s gonna

do two things.

One, it’s going to be the most offensive and vulgar thing anybody’s ever read.

And two, it’s going to give the best life advice that anybody’s ever read.

And I’m gonna do it at the same time and I want to create this, like, mixture of emotion.

And so yeah, I sat down, banged it out, and it went crazy.

It went…

I mean, it was shared I think over a million times.

When I first read it I laughed so many times.

It was like howling out loud.

And I looked back in my email chain and to see, like, all the people that I sent it to,

because I just thought it was genius and it was lovely and wonderful and insightful, and

so much of what many of us think and feel but haven’t necessarily sat down to take

the time to articulate or to look at through that particular perspective.

So you make an important distinction about the subtle art of not giving a fuck near the

top of your book.

You say not giving a fuck does not mean being indifferent.

It means being comfortable with being different.

Talk to us about that.

And this is a big hang up, because when people hear not giving a fuck they imagine, like,

a guy drinking beer at a funeral with sunglasses on and, like, just being really disrespectful

and indifferent to what’s going on around him.

And the truth is that indifference is not… it doesn't solve any of your life problems.

Indifference is actually just another form of avoidance of life’s problems.

And so a healthy form of not giving a fuck, like, what people aspire to when they say,

like, I just wish I didn't give a fuck about this is they wish that they didn't give a

fuck about whatever adversity or struggles that they need to deal with to accomplish

their goals, and they have a hard time doing that.

So it’s… not giving a fuck is all about learning how to simply be comfortable with

the adversity.

Yeah.

And I also think… again, I read your book and loved it.

It’s about parsing down to what really matters so that you can focus and devote your life’s

heart, and energy, and attention, and creative ability to the things that genuinely matter

to you.

You have this little term in the book called the feedback loop from hell.

I want to talk about that and how to short circuit it.

You wrote, “By not giving a fuck that you feel bad, you short circuit the feedback loop

from hell.

You say to yourself, I feel like shit, but who gives a fuck?

And then as if sprinkled by magic fuck-giving fairy dust, you stop hating yourself for feeling

so bad.”

There was something about this that I thought was so incredibly insightful because especially

in the world of personal development, of self development, of spiritual growth, people seem

to always be striving for the state of happiness or joy or satisfaction.

And there’s absolute value in that, however, there is also value in another perspective

of not beating yourself up for not being in those states.

I was wondering if you could unpack that a little bit for us.

Yeah, I mean, one of the big points I wanted to get across with the book is that it’s

ok to feel bad.

Like, it… we’re all… you’re gonna feel bad sometimes.

I don't care how successful you are, I don't care how amazing your life is, how great your

relationships are, everybody’s gonna feel bad sometimes.

And a huge component of living a healthy life is being good at accepting that.

Because when you stop accepting that, you know, when you try to deny your anger or you

get mad at yourself because you’re anxious or you feel bad because you feel bad, it creates

this feedback loop.

You know?

You start feeling guilty at how guilty you feel all the time or you start getting angry

at the fact that you’re angry, which makes you even more angry.

And then you just… it starts spiraling out of control.

And the whole problem is this judgment that negative emotions are not acceptable.

You know, if you feel anxious, say fuck it.

Being anxious is part of life.

It’s normal to be anxious.

You’re probably anxious for a good reason.

If you’re angry you might be angry for a good reason.

It’s… these negative emotions aren’t necessarily negative.

A lot of times they’re very helpful.

And so it’s just learning how to care about something deeper than the emotion itself.

And I think for me what I got out of that particular part of it was not beating yourself

up, thinking that you’re a bad successful person or you’re not a healthy, striving

human being who is, you know, joyful all the time.

And there was such relief in that sentence.

I just thought it was an incredibly fresh perspective to bring to the conversation of

whether it’s how to have a fantastic life or a great life or a healthy life or whatever

kind of umbrella people want to stick it in.

The other part that really made me chuckle, I loved disappointment panda.

The superhero… the truth telling superhero that nobody wants around, but everyone really

needs.

And I love his sage wisdom.

Don't hope for a life without problems, there’s no such thing.

Instead, hope for a life full of good problems.

What is the disappointment panda, which I believe is really you, Mr. Mark Manson?

Yes.

Tell us about that.

Disappointment panda, there’s a section in the book.

I said I want to create a superhero that tells people uncomfortable truths about themselves.

And it would be a superhero that nobody would want around because it would just ruin the

party.

And… but it’s stuff we need to hear because, honestly, the most important things that we

ever hear in our life are often extremely painful to hear.

And I think when people think about some of their key breakthroughs, they can relate to

that.

It’s often really uncomfortable to, like, learn that thing about yourself that kind

of sets you free.

And so disappointment panda would be the superhero that walks around knocking on doors and, like,

telling people, like, “Hey, making more money is not going to make your kids love

you.”

And it’s like a stab in the chest and the person, like, slams the door, but it’s what

they need to hear.

And it’s… in a sense, the whole… this whole book, I kind of see this whole book

or my work in general as being disappointment panda.

And that’s why you have all the humor, you have all the fucks, you have all the silly

language and the superheroes and everything, because ultimately I try to talk about really

painful stuff and it’s… the only way you get people to listen to it or to read it or

be interested in reading it is to make it fun and to make it kind of shocking.

I thought the insight about problems though is a really important one, you know, to try

and get rid of problems is not really the goal because, A, that’s not possible.

Right.

But, B, that actually happiness, from your perspective, and let me know if I got this

wrong or if there’s an adjustment, but so much happiness or satisfaction or fulfillment

comes from the solving of problems.

So to eliminate that you actually are doing yourself a disservice.

Yeah.

So problems is… that’s exactly right.

Problems are basically the building block of happiness, and that is really counterintuitive

to most people because most people think of happiness is, like, no problems, you know,

sitting on the beach with a piña colada doing whatever.

And… but the truth is that we need some sort of struggle in our life.

And the point I try to make in the book is that the key to living a good life isn’t

getting rid of struggle, it’s finding good struggles.

Struggles that invigorate you, struggles that feel important to you, struggles that can

contribute to the people around you.

Because that’s where meaning comes from and, ultimately, meaning is, you know, what

we all need.

So I can hear people potentially listening to this and they say, “Ok Mark, I kinda

get that.

But what if my struggles or my problems right now are really sucky?

You know, what if they’re really difficult and I don't really see how they can produce

meaning or contribution?”

What would you say to that audience member?

Well, it’s… ultimately you need to find a way to solve them.

I mean, you can’t… you’re never gonna get away from the problems.

And so really what it’s about is choosing your problems.

You know, so if there’s a problem, if people listening to this, like, feel stuck in some

way, generally when people feel stuck it’s because they’re in a situation where they

believe that they don't have the power to solve whatever is going on in their life.

And the truth is that you always have the power to, A, react to whatever is going on

in your life or, B, create the meaning around whatever is happening in your life.

So it’s usually just a matter of, first, changing perspective and then, B, doing something

to set about solving it.

And again it’s… what gets people stuck is that they just… they want to eliminate

their problems.

It’s not about eliminating problems, it’s about simply finding something more meaningful,

more worthwhile.

If that makes sense.

It does make sense.

You know, another philosophy that I think you and I share is this question, and you

think it’s the most important question that one can ask themselves, and I tend to agree.

It’s not about what will make you happy, but what pain are you willing to sustain?

You know, what are you willing to suffer for?

I would love you to tell us the story about your rockstar fantasies, because I think that

sets the context and the meaning for the question.

I… so it’s easy for people to dream and envision, like, some big success.

You know, we all sit around and have these big visions for ourselves.

That feels good.

That’s great.

The problem is is that what actually produces success is our ability to enjoy the struggle

involved in it.

So when I was young I wanted to be a rock star.

I played guitar, I wanted to be in bands, I always, you know, used to fantasize about