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  • If those folks out on the street that Adriana interviewed are representative

  • many people blame Obama or even past-president George Bush

  • for the country's current problems and though we have seen

  • a slew of bad news out for Obama, just to give you a handful:

  • his approval ratings are 43%. They used to be 69%.

  • A NY Senate seat historically held by a Democrat

  • went to a Republican for the first time since 1923.

  • Solyndra, the solar panel making plant who got stimulus money

  • is facing bankruptcy and is now a scandal for the administration

  • and poverty has hit record highs.

  • But my next guest argues this is not about Obama.

  • It's not even about politics.

  • It is about needing a total overhaul of society.

  • And Peter Joseph, filmmaker and founder of the Zeitgeist Movement

  • coming off of his inaugural Zeitgeist Media Festival

  • is here to talk about his solutions.

  • Thank you for being here. It's nice to see you.

  • So to start out...- Thank you for having me. - Absolutely!

  • You argue the solutions to social problems are not politics.

  • What exactly are the solutions called for by the Zeitgeist Movement?

  • To understand the solutions you really have to understand

  • what the problems are.

  • In the broad view what we're faced with right now is basically the end

  • of a paradigm with respect to our social system.

  • It's not ending because of some bad policy

  • or some political malfeasance or any kind of economic issue.

  • It's ending because it can no longer sustain itself

  • by the natural evolution of human society and technology

  • and the inherent mechanisms that define this system

  • which are slowly growing out of control like a cancer.

  • We have a debt-based currency system.

  • Interest is charged on the money that's loaned

  • that doesn't exist outright in the money supply.

  • That, at its very core seed

  • is really why you see these sovereign debt defaults

  • corporate debt defaults, personal debt defaults across the world.

  • We have $60 trillion of private and public debt in America alone.

  • You can do the math on how much that is per person.

  • It's only going to grow as well and this is just the nature of this system.

  • We have an unemployment crisis, which is really driven by technology.

  • Technological unemployment has been the major attribute

  • that has moved people from sector to sector.

  • The illusion of most economists is that they say

  • "Technology is actually creating jobs."

  • That's actually a convoluted logic.

  • What happens is (and you can see this if you track

  • the industrial revolution to the modern point you see this very clearly)

  • but what happens is we start off with a certain sector: everyone's employed.

  • Technology comes in, displaces human labor and slowly other sectors emerge

  • usually on the basis of other technologies. It's a natural consequence

  • but it actually isn't a resolution and actually isn't creating anything.

  • What we're going to end up with is the necessity to have everyone either a lawyer

  • or working in the entertainment industry because there's no way

  • you're going to have a manufacturing sector with people actually employed.

  • There's no way you're going to have a service sector with people actually employed

  • because the cost efficiency that's enabled by technology

  • overrides the need for human labor.

  • What happened to Bank of America recently? They just laid off 40,000 people.

  • Do they understand what they're doing? They're actually laying off...

  • I just want to get in here to continue the conversation

  • because how do you separate out... I hear what you're saying about technology

  • and about the entertainment industry. I've lived in LA

  • but I do want to know how you can separate out

  • all of the jobs that we've seen go overseas to countries like China

  • and all of the people we've seen move into

  • a financial system that people say is overbanked in this country.

  • There have been a transition in industry and jobs.

  • There absolutely have been, but the question is

  • when you have 96% of the human population mostly in the West

  • which has the majority of the labor working in the service sector

  • which is now being replaced by automated kiosks

  • and many other advanced technological mediums, where is the next sector?

  • I want to point out that I look at this on a global scale.

  • I'm not interested in American unemployment or in any country's specifics

  • because it's one society. It's one world, one economy.

  • The question to be asked is:

  • Why will the majority of people eventually be unemployed on the planet?

  • That's because of technology. You can forget about outsourcing and all of that.

  • The only thing to learn from that is that industry and its prime motivation

  • to corporation shareholders, is to make sure they maintain a profit.

  • Displacing human labor because of the cost-efficiency

  • enabled by technological automation

  • is the contradiction and collapse of capitalism

  • that many economic theorists have talked about for the past 100 years

  • including John Maynard Keynes. - Right

  • This is an inevitable evolution and it's not going to stop.

  • You're saying the problem is capitalism.

  • What are you saying is the solution?

  • The solution is a completely different reordering

  • of how we actually engage materials, how we create production

  • and how people actually contribute to society. If you recognize this reality

  • that the market system as we know it which is the bedrock

  • of the capitalist free enterprise system, whatever you want to call it...

  • If we recognize this phenomenon as phasing out and mark my words

  • the jobs are not coming back across the board. They can't!

  • The system will not enable it by its inherent logic.

  • When you realize this, you start to open up your mind.

  • You think to yourself "If technology can provide

  • all of these tools to enhance production..."

  • By the way, technological unemployment

  • is inverse to productivity across the world

  • which means the less people we have working in industry

  • the more we apply technology, the more production capabilities

  • we actually have which is amazing.

  • What this means is that we can use technology. We can free ourselves

  • create an entirely different social system

  • based on maximizing our efficiency hence our sustainability

  • through advanced methods of production and eventually providing

  • for literally the entire human species if we put our mind to it

  • and overcome all the traditionalized barriers that are stopping us

  • because of this traditionalized notion we think is empirical in society.

  • - You're calling for something really untraditional, but what is it?

  • It kind of sounds like getting rid of capitalism and putting in what?

  • You can give it names. It's about appreciating a train of thought

  • about what we're doing and how it can actually benefit human society

  • and create the best public health and safety

  • providing for as many people on the planet as possible.

  • If you want to give it a name, you can call it a Resource-Based Economy

  • or a resource-based economic model because really

  • what is the foundation of human society? It's resources.

  • It's resources, not only of the physical gold

  • food and all of those attributes, it's also the mental resource.

  • We have people wasting their lives as secretaries

  • and in industries that don't produce anything

  • such as Wall Street and advertising.

  • Can you tell me what they're producing that actually helps anybody directly?

  • There really isn't anything. These are filler concepts

  • that actually don't contribute. If you take the approach

  • that we live off of resources and you organize those resources

  • you make the most efficient production system you can

  • based on what technical knowledge allows us to do: scientific understanding.

  • You reorient society to let people actually engage in occupations

  • that actually do something, instead of spending all of our high...

  • taking all of our scientists and putting them on military operations right now.

  • They could be using that same engineering resource and mental capacity

  • to benefit all the world's people and create a material abundance.

  • No one could ever be starving on this planet.

  • This is statistically proven, even with the current inefficiencies we have now.

  • To summarize, we have resource-based economic model.

  • It's a ground-up approach to resource management

  • and we make everything as efficient

  • and productive as possible, technically. No monetary evaluation

  • no monetary association because all that does is interfere

  • and cause more problems and limit our possibility.

  • - I want to keep this conversation going because I do want to hit on

  • a number of things here: What about government?

  • What does that look like?

  • What about individual freedom?

  • - Ask yourself a question: What is individual freedom?

  • Is it walking into a job that you probably had no control over

  • in the sense of your necessity for income

  • more or less a private dictatorship that people go into from 9 to 5?

  • Is that freedom? Is freedom what you get money for to go and buy?

  • Is it your freedom to go into a store and pick between 28 different

  • varieties of cereal that you can choose from. What is freedom?

  • Maybe not. - The system that we talk about...- Go ahead.

  • The system that we speak of actually will enable

  • a level of freedom for human society never before seen.

  • To answer your question: what is government?

  • Government is really a failure of the economic system.

  • What does a government do? They create laws

  • to regulate economic functions, not to mention all the aberrations

  • that come from the lack of economic efficiency that we have

  • meaning violence, property crimes which is the majority of it.

  • They also engage in military operations against other sovereign nations

  • so they can better themselves and protect themselves over time.

  • These are basically the only two things that government actually does

  • if you really sit down and look at it. Politicians have no technical orientation.

  • They mirror value systems. They manipulate people's values

  • so people will identify with them and say "Oh, I like them!" It doesn't matter

  • if they have a plan. None of these politicians running for the US presidency

  • have any plan whatsoever as far as what the unemployment issue

  • and the debt issue really require

  • what the energy issue really requires, which are firmly technical.

  • Government in the future will literally be

  • the management of the planet, producing exactly what we can produce

  • with the highest efficiency to benefit the world's people.

  • This is what a true economic model would be. What is economics?

  • It's defined in Greek as the management of a household.

  • The planet is our household. A true economic model is proper

  • efficient management of this household

  • not the use of money as a commodity

  • and all the distortion that has emerged from that process.

  • - But Peter, it sounds a little bit like this is a utopic vision of society.

  • What is one example you have seen

  • that you believe that this will work because you've seen it happen?

  • - First of all, utopia assumes a finality. There's no such thing as a finality.

  • We're just trying to update society to present-day knowledge.

  • Remember our notions of economics and politics are based on traditional ideas

  • that go back hundreds if not thousands of years.

  • These are completely outdated social structures that do not

  • resemble any of our scientific ingenuity at this point in time

  • and our ability to actually to care for the human population

  • which is what a society is supposed to do, right?

  • The best example you can have are first nations' people

  • that actually understood what it meant to live off the land.

  • They understood the carrying capacity of their region

  • and that you don't pollute the stream that they drink from

  • which is something industry does every single day right now

  • for its necessity to maintain cost-efficiency. The very simplistic notion...

  • - Let me ask you this then. I don't want to go back and work the land.

  • I love what I do. I'm a journalist. I enjoy it a lot.

  • I'm not just going to give that up.

  • How do you actually make what you're talking about, happen?

  • The bio-social pressures that will emerge and inhibit your life

  • and that of your family and everyone else on this planet

  • through time as this system completely deteriorates will make you question

  • what you value with respect to what you like to do.

  • It's not an issue of what any of us like. It's an issue of what is right

  • and what's sustainable for the human species

  • what will actually work for us a society

  • without causing conflict and all the deprivation and problems

  • that continue to deteriorate our standard of living

  • and create much less safety through society.

  • If you ask the question "I like to do this"

  • you'd have to ask yourself why.

  • Is there anything in your history maybe that you liked to do other than that?

  • Is there anything in your childhood that you aspired to

  • that maybe you couldn't do because you had to find a wedge

  • into this system to make sure you got paid for your occupation

  • which is what all of us have to do. It's kind of an open question.

  • I think when people begin to evaluate

  • what's happening now they will change their values.

  • They'll begin to see "Maybe I should contribute to society?"

  • You're speaking to a person who worked on Wall Street and in advertising

  • two of the most meaningless occupations on the planet.

  • I know very much about values because I used to identify

  • with those types of things. I asked myself "What am I doing?"

  • What am I actually doing to contribute to society?

  • This waste of my brain... If everyone actually was on the plane

  • where they could contribute to society, to invent

  • to engage in a democratic process, to create the world around us technically

  • that would be a beautiful state. We would have many Einsteins

  • many Da Vincis, many powerful minds emerge

  • that are not oppressed by this necessity

  • to come into a monetary system that restricts their possibility.

  • What incentivizes them if they don't have the ability to gain anything

  • other than the good of the people?

  • They're gaining much more than they'd ever gain in this system.

  • They're gaining a peace of mind, an understanding.

  • They're gaining the resources they need and a community.

  • They're gaining not a competitive, oscillating

  • defensive posture where you're always out for yourself

  • in this primitive capitalist system that we have today

  • which is actually a pseudo social system

  • because it's assumed by 'the invisible hand' that everyone fighting

  • among themselves will somehow manifest for the greater good

  • which is provably not the case.

  • What we have here is a different value orientation

  • where when you contribute to society, it comes back to you.

  • If I have an amazing invention, I invent it not because I want monetary gain;

  • I know when I invent it, it comes back to me just as it goes to everyone else

  • and when everyone else invents something or comes up with a new idea

  • it comes to them and everyone else .

  • The social interest must become, excuse me...

  • Self-interest must become social interest

  • if we expect to survive as a species. Otherwise you're going to see...

  • - Peter, it doesn't seem like we would be able to convince

  • a large number of people to do this without conflict

  • and some would argue that the Bolshevik revolution

  • showed rulers of the world at that time

  • what happens if you don't listen to the have-nots

  • which are who suffer in the capitalist system that you're critical of.

  • Are we at that moment again, yet?

  • I wouldn't conflate such issues.

  • First, you have to step back and look at the technical orientation.

  • You can't say "This will never happen because of where we are today."

  • That's the wrong train of thought. If everyone thought like that

  • we wouldn't be anywhere.

  • If you realize the technical orientation of what's possible

  • to meet the needs of the human population, to eliminate war.

  • If we simply worked together to share resources, to create almost

  • an infinite amount of energy, if we applied our technology correctly

  • if we applied these things from the ground up, realizing the train of thought

  • there's no argument to what we can do from here.

  • It's simply a matter of getting it done. In my experience

  • as I engage this movement and I begin to talk to people about this issue

  • I'm amazed at how fast they realize it. There might be some baggage there

  • but you're eventually going to hit an exponential increase of people

  • who want a massive social change. Why?

  • Because they have to have it. Their survival depends on it.

  • - But what is it going to be in the form of, some kind of revolution?

  • - It depends on how you define revolution.

  • The real revolution is revolution of values

  • not a violent revolution, not a revolution of overcoming the state.

  • The Zeitgeist Movement's work is here to bring in people

  • with a common value set in a global community

  • (which is why we're a global entity obviously)

  • and from that pressure, from this mere understanding

  • change will be affected. Now I could go on other tangents

  • about how civil disobedience and different programs

  • could emerge within the movement, but that's irrelevant at this point.

  • If people understand, as the human species as a whole

  • what's possible, what the real problem is and what the solution actually is

  • then it becomes a self-correcting system. The problem is educational.

  • I think even politicians, even the highest level

  • people in government, will wake up to this

  • and eventually the transition will emerge on its own accord.

  • - That's pretty optimistic considering how much

  • the political elite benefit from their power

  • but I appreciate you being here to sort this all out with me

  • and tell us your theories and answer some of the questions

  • that come out of them. That was Peter Joseph

  • filmmaker and founder of the Zeitgeist Movement

  • fresh off the Zeitgeist Festival.

If those folks out on the street that Adriana interviewed are representative

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ピーター・ジョセフ、ロシアの今 - 新しい価値観の秩序 - 9月14日[The Zeitgeist Movement] (Peter Joseph on Russia Today - New Value Order - Sept 14th '11[The Zeitgeist Movement])

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    王惟惟 に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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