I'm here with Juergen Mier, the Chief Executive of Siemens in the UK,

and John Mills, chairman and founder of JML and deputy chairman of the Leave Campaign.

Um, well (you) you've both been taking partner session about the implications to the UK of a vote to leave the EU in the referendum in June.

Um, can I start with you, John?

Do you think that voters are getting the information that they need, um, before that referendum?

I think they're getting a cloud of assertions, some of which are well-founded, some of which aren't.

And I think there is a lot of confusion around.

In the end, I think, most voters are going to vote on how they feel, I think it's almost an emotional decision that they'll take.

I think it's largely going to be about control and cost, and a lot of these other really big issues that are going be difficult for a lot of people to get their heads around.

Juergen, do you think people are getting what they need?

What seems to be missing from the debate is just more facts, or at least opinions which are underpinned with facts.

So, you know, let me give you an example.

You know I hear a lot of the people who are on the Leave Campaign side saying,

"You know, it will be really easy to get a trade agreement if we Brexit."

Um, but the facts are, that nobody in the world has managed to do a reasonably-sized trade agreement in anyway near two years,

so to me that means there will be a huge amount of uncertainty, which is always bad for business.

I mean, one of the arguments that the Leave Campaign makes is precisely that,

that the UK will be in a better position to negotiate its own free trade deals both with Europe and with the rest of the world.

Um, why do you believe that's the case?

Well I think it cuts both ways. I mean I think the EU does have more clouts than the UK on its own.

On the other hand, the EU has had a lot of trouble negotiating deals because we're twenty eight different members all want something different,

it's been hard to get agreement on exactly what the deal should be.

And the EU has not got deals with China, or the United States, or India, or Australia,

and that shows that it is very tricky to get these deals together in if you're a very big organization.

What, um, I mean Siemens is obviously a very significant investor, particularly in manufacturing in the UK,

I mean, what will you do if we vote to leave? What will Siemens do?

Well, I've always said and in the debate today that, you know, to me this is not so much about the factories and the activities we (here) have here today.

You know, they will largely continue, we will serve the British market, exporting from those factories will no doubt be a little bit more difficult,

but the real issue here is, what I'd like to do, is to create more future investment, factories of the future, and that means you do R&D here in the UK.

And those sorts of things are going to be harder when we are outside of a European Union.

It's more likely that the research activities would be done in collaboration without Great Britain,

and if you're not in at the beginning, then the chances of you having a factory of the future are pretty small.

But the Remain Campaign paints a very doom-laden scenario for a post-Brexit UK.

I mean, you're not saying that Siemens will leave the UK, are you?

No no, that's what I'm saying. You know, we won't leave the UK, but I don't see any up side, you know,

and I'm not in business to carry on running a status-quo.

You know, we have been growing our workforce, our activity here in the UK consistently over the last 30 or 40 years.

There's a matter-of-fact longer than now.

We've been employing thousands more people.

We're recruiting a thousand people in Hull here in the United Kingdom right now,

and creating those sorts of investments are much easier as part of the European Union.

I mean, John, I know that you don't believe in the doomsday scenario if we vote to leave, um, I mean Juergen says he sees no up sides,

what for you, are to say, one or two of the biggest up sides of us voting to leave?

Well, we paid less into the European Union.

We're paying about 12 million pounds a year, billion pounds next possibly after taking in all the account, the values that come back in,

so I mean there are gains of that sort.

So I think the really big issue is whether the British economy is going to be more likely to grow, um, than if we're in the EU rather than outside.

And I would have thought that Siemens investment would depend very much on the assessment of that sort.

And I think that if there are liberal policies pursued by a post-Brexit government,

that the economy may well grow more rapidly than it would have done if we've stayed in.

The EU is not doing well economically and (we get) shackling ourselves to the EU, the slow-growth isn't the best solution.

Thank you both very much indeed for speaking to the FT today.