and with me is Mike. Hello, Mike.

Mike: Hello.

Neil: Now, today we're talking about someone you

might have read about in history books: Winston Churchill – the British prime minister during

the Second World War who is well-known throughout the world.

Winston Churchill: We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight

on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets. We shall fight

in the hills. We shall never surrender!

Mike: Ah, never surrender, in other words, never

submit to your enemy. I remember reading about this speech that Churchill gave in June 1940,

when France was being invaded by the forces of Nazi Germany.

Neil: Yes, and this shows the spirit of this very

famous leader still admired to this day. So much so that here in the UK we are marking

the 50th anniversary of Winston Churchill's death.

Mike: He was a controversial figure wasn't he, Neil?

Controversial – it means people have divided opinion about him.

Neil: Yes he was quite a controversial figure. You'll

learn more about him in this programme as well as some new words. But first, as ever,

I'd like to ask you a quiz question, Mike.

Mike: Okay, I'm ready!

Neil: Do you know a lot about Churchill?

Mike: I think I do, yes.

Neil: Okay. We'll see about that. Which of these

facts about Winston Churchill is false? Now, is it:

a) He won the Nobel Peace Prize.

b) He tried three times before passing exams to the Military Academy.

c) He was a writer and a painter.

Mike: I think it's (a). I think he won a Nobel Prize

but I think it was Literature, not Peace.

Neil: Well, we'll see at the end of the programme.

Now, let's talk about Churchill.

Mike: You know what, Neil, many people think Churchill

has a lot to teach some of today's politicians. He was very determined, in other words, he

was persistent. When Churchill believed in an idea, he didn't give up easily.

Neil: Yes. The Mayor of London Boris Johnson sees

another good quality in Britain's wartime leader. He says there's one thing today's

politicians do that Churchill didn't. What was it? How did he deal with issues?

Boris Johnson: It's an illusion to think that he was a guy

who skated over the issues. He was deeply immersed in all the detail and all the technicality

and that helped him to get the right answer.

Mike: Ah, Churchill didn't 'skate over' the issues.

'To skate over' means to avoid dealing with something. Churchill studied the issues in

detail…

Neil: … and it helped him to get things right,

according to Boris Johnson. One example is that Churchill actually went to Germany in

the 1930s to assess the situation in the country first hand.

Mike: Well, Nazi Germany was defeated and Churchill

had a role in that. But there were other things he got wrong. He misjudged many situations.

Misjudged, in other words, he formed a wrong opinion about them.

Neil: That's right! The historian Nigel Knight,

a leading academic at Cambridge University, wrote a book about Churchill. He lists some

of the mistakes made by the wartime leader throughout his political career. Now, let's

listen. How does he describe Churchill's character?

Dr Nigel Knight: Churchill was fundamentally flawed. So was

his military strategy: Gallipoli in World War One, which was replicated in the Norwegian,

North African and the soft underbelly of Europe campaigns during the World War Two. It was

his economic strategy as chancellor in the 1920s, the return to the gold standards, his

attitude towards India and the Indians, and indeed his post war 51-55 ministry, which

was very lacklustre and very poor indeed.

Mike: Nigel Knight calls Churchill 'flawed', it

means he had a weakness in his character. And Churchill didn't get it right all the

time.

Neil: No. He occupied different posts in government

and sometimes he didn't get his strategy, which means his plan of action, right. His

strategy in some military campaigns ended up in disaster.

Mike: And his strategy regarding the British economy

may have actually contributed to a period of economic crisis known as the Great Depression.

And when he became prime minister again, in the 50s, his government wasn't very good,

was it Neil?

Neil: No. Not according to the Cambridge academic

Dr Nigel Knight. He called it 'lacklustre', which means dull, uninspiring.

Mike: Well, we shall remember him mostly for his

speeches in World War Two.

Neil: Well, we're running out of time so I'll go

back to our quiz question.

Mike: You mentioned three facts about Winston Churchill

and you said one of them was false, Neil.

Neil: Yes, and the options were:

a) He won the Nobel Peace Prize.

b) He tried three times before passing exams to the Military Academy.

c) He was a writer and a painter.

Mike: And I said I thought he won the Nobel Literature

Prize, not the Peace Prize.

Neil: And you were absolutely right! Churchill did

win a Nobel Prize but it was for Literature because he wrote books about History. He was

also a possible candidate for the 1945 Nobel Peace Prize but didn't win. Well, that's it

for this programme but let's just remind ourselves of some of the words we've used today.

Mike: They were: surrender, controversial, determined,

skate over, misjudged, flawed, strategy and lackluster.

Neil: Thanks, Mike. Well, that's it for today. Do

go to www.bbclearningenglish.com to find more 6 Minute English programmes. Until next time.

Goodbye!

Mike: Bye!