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We're joined in the studio now by Paul Kennard, an RAF Chinook pilot for 23 years, appreciate you joining us on Sky News.
ポール・ケナード、23年間RAFのチヌークパイロットです。
Talk to us about the moments of flying a military helicopter, those moments when there's three of you, if not more, sometimes less I guess, in that cockpit, it's dark, night flying, night goggles on.
軍用ヘリを操縦する瞬間について話してください。コックピットには3人、多ければそれ以上、少ない場合もあると思いますが、暗くて、夜間飛行で、ナイトゴーグルを装着しているときです。
What's that like in that moment?
その瞬間はどんな感じですか?
I think the important thing to understand is that the context is everything, and although that crew would have been equipped and trained to operate on night vision goggles, there's every chance the circumstances they were in, they weren't actually using them, and the reason is that night vision goggles are there to amplify light, they stimulate light, they capture photons and amplify them massively.
理解すべき重要なことは、文脈がすべてだということだ。あの乗組員は暗視ゴーグルを操作するための装備と訓練を受けていたはずだが、彼らが置かれていた状況では、実際には暗視ゴーグルを使用していなかった可能性が十分にある。
If you fly around an airfield such as Washington National, you'll see there's thousands of very, very bright lights there.
ワシントン・ナショナルなどの飛行場周辺を飛んでみると、そこには何千もの非常に明るいライトがあるのがわかるだろう。
Those lights have an impact on what we call backing down your night vision goggles, so the goggles are almost useless because the the goggles will auto-gate to protect the very sensitive electronics that are inside them, so the chances are at the operating altitudes they were flying at that night, 200 feet, as mandated by the the traffic routes around National, they were what we would call flip-flopping, so they're probably goggles up most of the time, looking down, goggles up, because the goggles themselves would be being a distraction due to the amount of lighting around an airport.
ライトは暗視ゴーグルに影響を与える。ゴーグルはほとんど役に立たない。ゴーグルの中にある非常に敏感な電子機器を保護するため、ゴーグルは自動的にゲートを通過するからだ、空港周辺の照明が多いため、ゴーグル自体が邪魔になるのだ。
You're in a cockpit, you're being told to observe an incoming passenger plane, how much of that can you see?
あなたはコックピットにいて、入ってくる旅客機を観察するように言われている。
What can you see as a pilot looking out into the distance, into the darkness?
パイロットとして遠くを、暗闇の中を見渡すと何が見えるのか。
So I've actually been fortunate to fly the Blackhawk as well, so I've had a few hours flying the Blackhawk and the visibility out of that aircraft is excellent, most battlefield helicopters, most military helicopters have excellent visibility out, because you're off, unlike a lot of fixed-wing aircraft in the helicopter world, you're often flying very close to the ground within the obstruction layer, so between trees, between underneath electricity pylons, in extremists, in bad weather, so the lookout is excellent.
というのも、ヘリコプターの世界では多くの固定翼機と違って、木々の間や鉄塔の下、極端な悪天候の中では、障害物層の中で地面のすぐ近くを飛ぶことが多いからだ。
The key for me is what were the crew actually looking at, and I think that's where we haven't, as far as we're aware, we still haven't got the cockpit voice recorder from the Blackhawk, we've recovered them from the the CRJ.
私たちの知る限り、ブラックホークのコックピットボイスレコーダーはまだ入手していない。
To me that's the missing piece in the jigsaw, it's that although we've got the radio calls from the crews, we understand what they were saying to our traffic and what was being said back, what we haven't got is that crew environment, that as you mentioned right at the top, those three people in that aircraft are operating as a crew, you know, in the Chinook we had four, sometimes even more, so you're operating as a crew, you know, it's a synergistic effect, you're hoping that your crew skills are better than your component parts, but until we know that, until we have that cockpit voice recorder, hopefully it will tell us what they were talking about, what their priorities were, what their workload level was in the moments leading up to the accident, and I think tellingly in this incident, what they were actually looking at and what they recognised as the situational awareness, the air picture around them in those final few seconds.
私にとっては、それがジグソーパズルの欠けている部分なのです。乗員からの無線通話を入手し、彼らがトラフィックに何を言っていたのか、そして何が言い返されていたのかを理解することはできますが、私たちが入手していないのは乗員の環境です。冒頭でおっしゃったように、その航空機に搭乗している3人は乗員として活動しています、しかし、それが判明するまでは、コックピットのボイスレコーダーを手に入れるまでは、事故が起こるまでの間、彼らが何を話していたのか、何を優先していたのか、仕事量はどの程度だったのか、そして今回の事故では、
There's lots of footage going around online and lots of commentary, people hypothesising as to what that environment's like.
ネット上にはたくさんの映像が出回っているし、コメントもたくさんあって、人々はあの環境がどんなものなのか仮説を立てている。
At the speeds you're operating at, first of all, what kind of speeds were they operating at, and how quickly does that environment change?
今のスピードでは、まず、どのようなスピードで操作していたのか、そして、その環境はどれくらいのスピードで変化するのか。
We're all used to driving a car on the road, but you're on the road, you've got solid ground beneath you, you've only got kind of 180 degrees to think about.
私たちは皆、道路で車を運転することに慣れているが、道路にいて、足元には固い地面があり、180度しか考えることがない。
When you're flying, how much does your environment change in split seconds?
空を飛んでいるとき、環境は一瞬のうちにどのくらい変化するのだろうか?
It can change really, really quickly, and those sort of speeds that you'd be typically flying on a route like that would be around about 120 knots, 80 to 120 knots, depending on the stage of flight.
そのようなルートで通常飛行する速度は、飛行の段階にもよるが、およそ120ノット、80ノットから120ノットくらいだろう。
So that's about 140 miles an hour?
ということは、時速140マイルくらい?
140 miles an hour, which sounds fast, and you know, if you were driving down the M4 this morning doing that, it would be fast, but in the context of aviation, 120 knots is relatively slow, and slower than a CRJ would have been on final approach to the runway.
時速140マイルというと速く聞こえるし、今朝M4を走っていたなら速いだろうが、航空という文脈では120ノットは比較的遅く、滑走路への最終アプローチのCRJよりも遅い。
But the important thing also, and it's a sad trick of geometry, which is if you are actually on a collision course with another aircraft in the air, there will be no relative motion.
しかし、重要なことは、これは幾何学の悲しいトリックなのだが、空中で他の航空機と衝突コース上にある場合、相対運動は起こらないということだ。
So quite often when you think about your peripheral vision, when you're driving, your main vision is looking straight ahead down the motorway, but you are aware of stuff, particularly if a car comes into your blind spot, if you've got a mirror that gives you a little indication to say, you know it's in your direction.
周辺視野について考えてみると、運転中、主視野は高速道路を直進することだが、死角に車が入ってきた場合、ミラーがあれば、自分の方向に車が来ていることがわかる。
If you're on a collision course with another aircraft, that constant bearing is constant.
他の航空機と衝突コースにある場合、その方位は一定である。
It means there is no relative motion, and then having conducted a number of mid-air collision avoidance trials in the past, you get that sudden bloom, and really the last couple of seconds before the potential impact is when everything suddenly gets bigger on you, and then it's no longer your perception or your sort of peripheral vision, it's now bang, it's there.
相対的な動きがないことを意味し、過去に何度も空中衝突回避の実験を行ったが、突然の開花を経験した。衝突の可能性がある最後の2、3秒前に、すべてが突然大きくなり、もはや自分の知覚や周辺視野ではなく、バーンとそこにある。
There's kind of a depth perception shift.
奥行き感が変わるんだ。
And at night, that's really difficult.
そして夜は本当に難しい。
We are creatures that are designed to operate in daylight.
私たちは昼間に活動するように設計された生き物だ。
Our vision works best in daylight.
私たちの視力は昼間に最もよく働く。
At night, night vision goggles are notoriously difficult at making depth perceptions, because it's a 2D presentation of a 3D world.
夜間の暗視ゴーグルは、3Dの世界を2Dで表現しているため、奥行きを認識するのが難しい。
Whereas if you are looking at night, a light, it's very difficult if you look at a light and say, how far away is that light?
一方、夜に光を見る場合、光を見て、あの光はどのくらい遠くにあるのだろう、と言うのは非常に難しい。
Because you don't know the intensity of the light, you don't know the bearing of the light.
光の強さを知らないから、光の方位もわからない。
It's very difficult until suddenly it blooms at you as you're in those last couple of seconds before collision.
衝突する前の最後の2、3秒の間に突然花が咲くまではとても難しい。
So depth perception at night is very difficult.
だから夜間の奥行き知覚は非常に難しい。
Your night vision is also impacted by the amount of light.
夜間視力は光の量にも影響される。
So if they're looking into Washington National, their night vision, their natural night vision, you think you sit down there in a dark room, your night vision improves.
だから、もし彼らがワシントン・ナショナルを覗いているなら、彼らの夜間視力は、彼らの自然な夜間視力は、暗い部屋でそこに座ると夜間視力が向上すると思う。
Well, they're looking into a pool of light.
彼らは光のプールを覗いているんだ。
So you're looking from the pool of light into the blackness, their eyes won't have time to adjust to looking back into the blackness.
だから、光のプールから暗闇の中を見ることになり、彼らの目は暗闇の中を振り返ることに慣れる時間がない。
So it's very, very difficult to judge perception and distance at night.
だから、夜間に知覚と距離を判断するのはとてもとても難しい。
Well, really appreciate it.
本当にありがとう。
Really fascinating insights as well for the moment.
今のところ、本当に魅力的な洞察もある。
Thank you so much.
本当にありがとう。