It's a pleasure. It's anaudiencethat I don't normallyspeakto.
嬉しいね。普段は話すことのない観客だ。
Andsoit's anaudiencewhich I thinkisparticularlyvaluable, particularlyimportant, butalsoactuallyprobablycouldbenefitquite a bitfromjust a littlebitofextrapsychology.
I had a conversationearliertodaywithsomeonewho's inthehotelindustryandisin a particular, withoutgivingawaywhereheworks, he's lookingtoreinventthehotel, arguing, I thinkwithsomereason, thatit's oneofthoseareaswhichisactuallyripefor a gooddegreeofdisruption.
Soactually, theDanishstatebroadcasterendedup, hesaid, thereshouldbe a statueofmeoutsidethisDanishbroadcasterbecause I endedupmakingthemtensofmillionsofpoundsbybothsellingtherightstoTheKilling, theoriginalseries, andalsobyNetflixbuyingtherightstothebasicstoryline.
Butthey'reweirdenoughtomakeitjustthatlittlebitmoreinteresting. And I think, youknow, I thinkthat's partofthereasonforthepopularityofScandinoirandScandicrimeisthey'retherightamountofweird.
And I think I thinkthat's trueofproductdesign. I thinkwithRaymondLoewe, I thinkthethingwashemade a fan. If I'vegotthestoryright, hemade a fadthatwasinsanelyquiet.
Andpeopledidn't believeitworkedbecauseitwasjusttooquiet. Andyearslater, I rememberthatstorybecausetherewas a guywhohadthisextraordinarykindofmachinelearningandAIdevicethatwasbeingusedbyengineers.
Andhewasproducing a I thinkitwasanelectrictoothbrush. Whatmighthavebeen a razorwasothermen's razorwithanelectricmotor, whichwasthattheycouldsomehowmakeitinsanelyquietbyusingsomeweirdmachinelearningalgorithmaboutwhatcausedthenoise.
I saidtohim, look, be a bitcarefulbecauseit's probably a goodideatomake a razor a bitquieter. Butifyoumakeittooquiet, wegenuinelywon't believeit's working. Actually, it's thecracklynoisethatwhenyourubitoveryourface, andit's thebuzzofthethingandthevibrationofthethingthatactuallyconvincesusit's doing a job.
I lovealltheseexamplesyou'resharingofwaysproductsstandout, sometimesbyaccident, sometimesintentionally. Ifyouif I weretozoomoutandtrytodescribewhatyouencouragepeopletodo, youbasicallyareintentonconvincingpeopletothinklesslogicallytothinklessrationally, which I thinkisprettycounterintuitiveto a lotofpeople, especiallyinbusinesswherethey'retold, bemorerational, bemorelogical.
I think I thinkwhatitisispsychologyis a branchofcomplexitytheory. OK, andtherearelotsofthingsinitwhicharenonlinearbutterflyeffects, smallthingsthathave a hugeeffect. Andtherearealsolotsofthingswhichareifyoulikeyinandyang. Inotherwords, what I sayistheoppositeof a goodideacanbeanothergoodidea.
Youknow, I wouldsaytherearetwogreatwaystocheckinto a hotel. Oneofthemisinsanelyhightouch. Andtheotherwayisnotouch. It'd beprettycooltocheckinto a hotelwherebasicallyyoujustwalkedinwithyourmobilephoneandunlockedyourroom. That'd beprettycool. It's alsoprettycoolifyougototheMandarinOrientalinHongKongthattheytakeyouuptoyourroom, showyouhowtousethetelevision, theshower, I hope, becausethat's always a bafflingthing.
Andthatactuallymakesyou a cupofteaintheroomwhileyou'refillingoutthepaperworkatyourvastdesk. They'rebothprettygreatwaystocheckinto a hotel. They'recompleteopposites, buttheyaredistinctive. I thinkunderstandingthefactthatwhatwe'retryingtodoiswe'retryingtoruntheworldofbusinessentirelyto a reductionistkindofmathsandphysicsandfinancemodel.
Youknowwhereeverything's kindoflinearandeverythingworksinstraightlinesandeverything's proportionateandtheoppositeof a goodideaiswrong. Andthepastis a fantasticguidetothefuture. We'rebasingourdecisionmakingonkindofhighschoolmathsquestions.
Italwaysbothersme, bytheway, thatintelligencetestsaremultiplechoice. TheSATsaremultiplechoiceintheUS, I think, aren't they? Veryweirdly, a greatauntofmineactually, whospentsometimeintheUS, I thinkatPrinceton, wasactuallyinvolvedwiththeguywhodesignedthosekindofearlyintelligencetests.
Buttheotherthingthatalwaysbothersmeisthatbydefinition, multiplechoicequestionshave a singlerightanswer. OK, theoretically, youcouldhavemultiplerightanswersandyousimplyhavetochooseonethatisacceptable, I guess. Butbasically, theygot a rightanswerandthreewronganswers.
AndifyoucanGoogleit, becauseitthenappearedin a Chinese, I think, a Chineseschoolexam. Anditwas a veryinterestingexperimentdone, I think, by a Frenchphilosopherorpsychologist, whichiswhathappensifyouactuallyjustgivepeople a loadofdataandthenyougivethem a question. Aretheysohabituatedbyhighschoolquestionstoassumethatwhat's inthequestionmustthereforegiveyou, youknow, a singlerightanswer?
Yeah, there's a fewreallyinterestingstoriesofcompanieswhichhave a muchlesstopdown. Inotherwords, it's a muchmore, youknow, youknowhowinevolution, there's thistheoryofmultilevelselection, whichiswedon't justselectforindividualsorgenes, weselectforgroups, forexample.
トップダウンではない、実に興味深い話がいくつかある。つまり、進化論には多段階淘汰という理論がある。
Twoexamples I'veheardofanecdotally, whichareinteresting. There's a BritishcompanycalledOctopusEnergy, whichalsohas a softwaredivisioncalledKraken, whichis a kindof, it's effectively a wayofmanagingutilitiesin a muchmoresophisticatedpricingenvironment, youknow, andtheyhaveextraordinarytariffswhere, youknow, ifyouchargeyourcaraftermidnight, you, youknow, youpay a tinyfractionofwhatyoupaytherestofthetime.
Andthatthere's thatfamousDonDunbarnumbercoinedbyRobinDunbar, oncedescribedasthenumberofpeopleyouknow, whereyoucouldjoin a conversationinwhichtheywereengagedwithsomeoneelse, withoutitfeelingweird.
そして、ロビン・ダンバーによって作られた有名なドン・ダンバー・ナンバーがある。
Mostpeopleknowabout 150 people, whereeffectively, youknow, you'reat a party, youseefriend X, who's oneofyourDunbarnumber, oneofthe 150 peopletalkingto a completestranger, andyoucangooverandjointhatconversationwithoutfeelingyou're a bitof a kindofwallflowerorbeing a bitofanidiotbybuttingin.
Andthat's theDunbarnumber 150. Theredoesseemtobesomenumberaroundsportsteamsaround 10. Sothat's a wayofdesigningforhumanityratherthandesigningfortheorganogram. And a thirdcasewouldbesomeoneat a verysuccessfulBritishonlineretailercalledAO, AppliancesOnlineiswhatitstandsfor.
And I think, youknow, I thinkundoubtedly, youknow, oneofthetwogreatvirtuestothis, oneofwhichisthatthemetricsoftenactuallygetgained, ortheyleadto a completedistortionofbehavior. Thesecondthingwithmetricsisthateitherpeoplegainthemtotheiradvantage, ortheyobeythem, butfindthemstupid.
SofinalcaseofthatisZappos. We'retalkingtothefantasticguywhois, I think, ChiefMarketingorOperatingOfficerofZappos. Youwon't believethis. I thinkthatherefusedtomakespeed a measureinthecallcenter. Hesaidthecallisaslongasitneedstobetosolvetheproblem. Andtheyhadoneextraordinaryoutlier, whichwassomethinglike a customerservicecall, whichwassevenhourslong.
Now, I thinkitinvolved a coupleofbathroomvisitsonbothsides. I havenoideawhattheproblemwas, butthatwasalmost a pointofprinciplethatifittakessevenhourstosolvetheproblem, that's howlongwespendontheline.
We'veactuallycreatedwhat I callSoviet-stylecapitalism. It's deeplydemotivating. It's allaboutquarterlytargets. I mean, atleasttheSovietUnionhad a five-yearplan. We'vegotthesestupidquarterlyobsessionswithrevenueformeetingourforecastforquartertwo.
Andthat's a veryspecialcase, whichactuallyneverappliescompletely, I wouldargue, butcertainlyveryrarelyactuallyoccursintherealworld. Itmainlyactuallyisfoundinkindofeconomicmodels.
これは非常に特殊なケースで、完全には当てはまらない。それは主に経済モデルの中で見られるものです。
Youhave a reallygoodinsightintowhywethinkinthisirrational, illogicalway, which I love. I thinkyoutalkabouthowifwewere, youknow, evolvinginthesavanna, ifananimalisverypredictableandverylogical, they're a loteasiertocatch.
No, no, no. I mean, I mean, thingslike, youknow, theabilitytobehaveirrationally, youknow. OK, there's a claim, bytheway, ofallthenegativereviews I get, theyweren't what I expectedatall. There's aboutthreepagesinthebookwhere I basicallysaybeing a bitdoubleTrumphasitsvirtues.
OK. Right. OK. I imagine. OK. Thatisnot a worldwherebeingcompletelyconsistentlylogical, neverlosingyourtemper, neverwalkingawayfrom a deal, etc. Youknow, noneofyouhavetobeabletoplaythatplaythosegametheoreticmoves.
OK. Therewerepeoplewhobasicallyencounteredthisthing. Maybe I shouldputitrightattheendofthebookand I putitsomewhereearlyon, whowerethendrivenpracticallyinsanebythisassertion. Butthefactremainsthat, youknow, therearecertaincircumstancesinwhichtheabilitytobehaveirrationallyisactuallyatthemetalevel, highlyrational.
Yeah. Butno. OK. WehavetohavesomedegreeofDarwinspottedthissomedegreeofkindofrandomnumbergeneratorinourmakeup. Andtheclassicexampleofthis, whichis I learnedfromRobertTrivers, theevolutionarybiologist, isthatwhen a hareisbeingchasedby a dog.
Butthere's a kindofrandomnumbergeneratorinthehares. I thinkit's calledinsubmarinewarfare. It's calleddoing a crazyIvanwhereyoujustexecutekindofcrazymaneuvers. ItwastheRussiansubmarineswhenbeingpursuedbyAmericansubmarineswoulddosomethingcalled a crazyIvan.
Dowhat I'vedonebefore. Andtheotheroneissocialcopying. Dowhateverybodyelseseemstobedoing. Andtheymakeextraordinarilygoodsenseinevolutionarytermsbecauseanorganismthathadtolearneverythingfromfirstprincipleswouldeat a hellof a lotofpoisonousberriesratherthangoing, look, I'vealwayseatentheyellowberries. I seemtobefine. I don't havetheshits. Let's juststicktotheyellowberries.
Well, unlessthere's a massiveshortageofyellowberries, that's probably a prettygoodidea. Orequally, ifyoufindyourselfin a newenvironmentornewhabitatandalltheotherprimatesareeatingthepurpleberriesandnobody's touchingtheyellowonesinthatenvironment, it's probably a goodideatocopythem, youknow, becausethere's extraintelligencethere.
Youknow, inotherwords, I canlearneffectivelyfromcopyingmypastbehaviororcopyingthebehaviorofothers. I can I canactually, youknow, it's a fairlylowcostwayofdiscoveringlowvariance, lowdownsidebehaviors.
No. Thesinglethingthatwouldpersuadepeopletohavemoreheatpumpsisifthreepeopleontheirstreethad a heatpump. Okay. Now, toaneconomist, thatdrivesthempracticallyinsanebecausetheygo, no, no, no. Thebehaviorofyourneighborsshouldbeentirelyrelevant. Youknow, youshouldsimplydothemaths, calculatehowmuchyou'd save, comparethatagainstthereturnyougetin a highinterestsavingsaccountandthendecidewhethertheheatpumpisworthyoftheinvestment.
Youknow, so I mean, anawfullotofthesethingsare, youknow, instinctiveintuitionthatwe'vejustlearnedthroughexperience. Andwedon't knowwhatthefutureisgoingtobring. Butactually, it's whatyoumightcalldecisionmakingbasedon a reasonableexpectationofsomething.
ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyCoda. And I meanthatliterally. I useCodaeverydaytohelpmeplaneachepisodeofthisverypodcast. It's where I keepmycontentcalendar, myguestresearch, andalsothequestionsthat I plantoaskeachguest. Also, duringtherecordingitself, I have a Codapageuptoremindmyselfwhat I wanttotalkabout.
There's a jokeintheUK. It's lesstruethanitusedtobebecausetherewas a famousactorcalledJean-ClaudeVanDamme, whoisknownasthemusclesfromBrussels. ButtheoldBritishjoke 20 yearsagowasthattherearenofamousBelgians. Okay. Andit's a bitweird. WhyaretherenofamousBelgians? Anditturnsoutit's a bitlikewhytherearen't verymanyfamousCanadians.
Andthereasonis, ifyou're a famousCanadian, everybodyassumesyou'reAmerican. Andifyou're a famousBelgian, everybodyassumesyou'reFrench, unlessyou're a painterfromtheMiddleAges, inwhichcaseyou'renotcalledBelgianatall. You'recalledFlemish. Okay. Thereareactually a lotoffamousBelgians, buteverybodyassumesthey'reeitherFrenchorthey'recalledFlemishbecausetheypaintedinthe 16thcenturyorsomething.
Andinterestingly, forthesamereason, therearen't verymanyfamousmarketingcampaignstolaunchnewinnovativeproducts. Becausewhen a productsucceeds, everybodyforgetsthefactthatitwasthemarketingthatwasinstrumentaltoitssuccess. When I saymarketing, I mean, initswidestsense, I don't justmeantheadvertising, thecommunication, I mean, thepositioning.
Now, 20 years. Okay. I mean, youknow, thereare I mean, okay. Themobilephonewasfreakishbecausethatwasactuallydrivenbysocialpressureinpart. Youknow, youhadnoevenpeoplewhodidn't reallywant a mobilephoneendeduphavingtogetonebecauseyoulooklike a bitofanarseholewhenpeoplesaid, what's yourmobilenumberandyoucouldn't giveone.
I mean, SteveJobswasnot a technologist. Hewas a pitchman. Hewas a huckster. I mean, thisiscompliments. Okay. Hewas a brilliantsalesman. Hewas a fantasticmarketer. ThetechpeopleatAppledidn't respecthim. Theysaid, I don't getwhatSteveevendoes. Like, hecan't evencode. Okay. Buthewasabsolutelybrilliantateverythingfromproductdesignto, youknow, tofocusingon a on a limitednumber, toextraordinarytaste, togivingthosepresentations.
Butinhindsight, weweforgetthemarketingandwedon't sayweneversaybecauseofthegreatmarketing, I boughtthatproduct. Wego, I boughtitbecauseitwas a greatproduct, butwethoughtitwas a greatproductbecauseofthemarketing.
Andinfairness, I travel a lot. So I havequite a lotofebooksbecause I canthenpackonetabletinmybag. I'm carrying a libraryaroundwithme, whichis, youknow, quite a longplaneflight. It's a lotbetterthanhavingtopackeightbooksanddecidewhichoneyou'regoingtoreadwhenyougetthere. Butifyoudon't travelaround, peopleseemtopreferphysicalbooks, forexample. Peoplelikethesethings, actually, like, what's thatfunnyScandinavianthingyouwriteon? Youknow, thatpadthing?
$110 millionorsomething. Andyou'vegottowipeyourownass. It's 110 millionforthisplaceandthetoilets. Now, I imagineifthere's a MiddleEasternowner, they'llgoandretrofitsomebumgunsinthere. Howflamingweirdisthat? Youknow, I mean, seriouslystrange. Andyourealisethatactually, youknow, I mean, GoogleGlass, I mean, itwaskindofmarketingcockup, theylaunched a bittoosoon.
Because I wouldreally, reallylikebeingabletowalkaround. Now, I don't knowwhat I'm tellingyou. Now, I don't knowwhatthetimeis. I don't knowwhenmynextmeetingstarts. I don't knowwhattheweather's likeoutside. If I justhadregularin-eyeupdates, a kindofheadsupdisplayforshitthat's goingoninmylifethatjustremindsmeofstuff. I easilywithouthavingtolookat a digitalwatch. I boughtthesebloodybothAndroidandApplewatches.
Youknow, thatactually, I mean, quite a lotofInternetideasfailed, I thinkquite a lotofonlineideasfailbecausetheywerejustmistimed. Typically, youknow, somegoodideasweretooearly. GreatlittlethingactuallycalledtheChumby, which I hadaboutthreeofthem, andtheywerelittleInternetconnecteddevices. Andtheyjustcycledthroughlittlescreens, whichwouldsaylikelittleapplets, likelittlekindofyouprobablyaniPhoneuser, butwhatwecallthemwidgets.
It's 1989. Okay. I signout a mobilephone. It's like a brick. It's madebyMotorola. Signout a mobilephonefromtheofficein 1989 because I'm goingto a meetingsomewhereoffsiteand I needtobecontactable. Soyoudidn't haveyourownmobilephone. No, theofficehadabouteightofthemandyousignedoneoutandtheywerekeptchargingintheoffice.
Yousignedoneout. Youtoldyourteamwhatyournumberwasforthedayandyousetouttoyourtrip. So I'm walkingdownOxfordStreetwiththismobilephoneandsomeoneringsme. So I haven't gotanychoice. I havetoanswerit. Okay. So I'm speakingon a mobilephoneinOxfordStreet, BusinessStreetinLondonin 1989. Twopeopleshoutabuseatmefrompassingcarsforusing a mobilephone.
Secondcasein. Letmeseeif I candatethis. Itwouldbeabout 2000 and. Oh, crikey. I guessabout 2003, 2004. Therewas a companystartedbysomeAmericanexpatscalledFoodFerryinLondon, and I thinkitwas a hybridCD-ROM.
Youactuallyhad a CD-ROMofmostofthestuffandyouwentonline, youorderedyourgroceriesandtheydeliveredthemtoyou. And I mentionedtosomeonein 2000, itwouldhavebeentheearly 2000s, that I actuallyorderedmyhomegroceriesontheInternetandtheylaughedinmyface.
Therewasmassive. I mean, OK, onestory. I thenboughtmyownmobilephone. Thiswouldhavebeenaboutnine. Thiswaseightynine. I wasborrowingthephone. Itwouldhavebeenaboutninetyfive, ninetysixwhen I actuallyhadmyownmobilephone, maybeninetyfour.
I'm tryingtoworkitoutand I'm onthetopof a businLondonandsomebodyringsmeandtheyringmefromtheStates. It's myfriendTed, whois a biochemistatPenn, I thinkatthetime. And I saidsomethingonthephone. I'm sittingonthetopof a busand I saidsomethingon a phonewhichmadeitobvious I wasspeakingtosomeoneinAmerica. Itwaslike, whattimeisitwithyouorwhat's theweatherlikeoverthere?
Basically, itwasobvious I wasmakinganinternationalcallon a mobilephone, thetopofthebus. I actuallythoughttherewas a mildriskofphysicalattackbecausethatwassuchanextraordinarilytwattythingtodo. And I suddenlyrealizedit's because I'm old. I'm fiftyeight. Youknow, I suddenlyrealizedthat a lotofyoungerpeopledon't havethechronologicalcontext.
Theyweren't fast. Thesmartphonewasprettyfast. I grabbedthat. Thatwasthatthatwas a thatwas a freakexception. MostofthesethingsarereallyGod, I'm slow. Andalso, ifyougetyourmarketingwrongorifyoumissifyoumisstime, yourlaunchorifyoujustmisjudgesomeaspectofyourlaunchpsychologically, youcantakesomethingwhichisintrinsically a brilliantproductanditwillfailtobite.
That's why I thinkthisisreallyimportant, becausewewehavesurvivorshipbias. Weonlylookatthesuccesses. Noone's theregoing. I mean, certainthingslike, I mean, thefactthatwestillopenourhouseswithkeys.
AccordingtoHerodotus, writinginaboutwhatisit, I suppose, thesixthcentury B.C. I wasthereaboutfifth. I shouldknow. TheancientPersians, whentheyhadtodeliberate, theydebatedeverythingtwice, oncewhilesoberandoncewhiledrunk. Andonlyiftheyagreedinbothstateswouldtheygoaheadwiththecourseofaction.
Now, I don't knowwhetherbeingdrunkisjustanopportunitytocomeupwith a betteridea, OK, orwhetherit's a questionofdoesthisappealtousrationally? Doesthisalsoappealtousemotionally? OK, I don't know. There's somethingreally, reallyinterestingabouthavingwhatyoumightcallto a twostage, a doublelockofdecisionmaking, whichisOK.
Now, fastforward. What's sofascinating? Fastforwardto 2025. I'm quitepro-electriccars. I'vegottwoandmywifehasoneofthem. And I likethemboth. I wouldn't gobacktogasolinebecause I thinkthey'regreat. OK, they'relovelytodrive. They'relike a limousineand a go-kart. Theyhaveveryfewmovingparts. They'reincrediblyquiet. They'rejustlovely. OK, justdriveoneandyou'llseewhat I mean.
Andwhen I writeinfavourofelectriccars, I getallthesecommentsinthespectatorcommentsbelowofpeoplewhoreallyhatethem. Andwhentheywritetome, whatitboilsdowntoistheythinkit's userimagerylikeGoogleGlass.
Toproducethebattery. What a trap. Now, theinterestingthingaboutthis, OK, isthatinveryfewcases I canencounter, I canremember, OK, istheelectriccarownersactuallyveryinterestedintheenvironment. They'renot. Similarly, whenyoumeetenvironmentalpeople, OK, theydon't haveelectriccars.
It's actually a hugeobstacletoadoptionbecausepeoplejust I don't wanttobethatkindofperson. Now, actually, OK, I wentaheadandelectriccarthreeyearsago. Therearefewerchargingpointsthantherearenow.
Brighton, whichislikethemostrightoncityonthesouthcoastofEngland. Nowheretochargeatall. Butyouwentsomewhere, youknow, youwentsomewhere a bitbling, a bit.
Allright. Arereallydoingthisforenvironmentalreasons. Theymaybehappytohavezeroemissioncars. I wouldliketogetsolarpanelstochargemycar, notreallytoreducecarbonemissions, butjusttobereallycooltohave a carthatrunsonthesun.
So I thinkdinosaurshadfeathers, didn't they? Theythink I'm right. OK, sotherewasnosexualdisplaythinggoingon. Andeventuallytheythought, oh, actually, youknow, I didthistoshowoff, but I canactuallygettothatbranch.
Butwe'vegottobeconsciousofthefactthat. Andalso, ifyoureallyevangelizenewthings, youknow, I wasanairfryerevangelistliterallygoingbackover 10 years, 15 yearsago.
I wasliketheJohntheBaptistofairfryers, youknow, and I occasionallysaytoanaudienceof 500 people, ifyou'vegotanybodyheregotanairfryerandthere'd alwaysbesixpeoplego, yeah, bestthing I'veeverbought.
It's a slightlyunusualkindofcorporateenvironmentwherepeopleactuallywanttokindofeffectivelyplayconstantgamesofoneupmanshipwiththeirkindofworkmates, whichtendstohappeninmarketingandotherfunctionsandtendstohappenactuallyatthehigherlevelsofcorporations.
Butit's actuallyvery, it's actuallyslightlyanunnaturalstate. Soyou'regoingtobeverycarefulworkingin a marketingdepartmentorbeing a personwhoworksinmarketingtocontinuallyremindyourselfthatyou'reanoutlier.
Itwouldhavecost 50 centsbecauseapparentlytheybuiltthefirstWalkmanonthe, I thinkitwascalledtheSonyTalkman, whichwas a dictatingmachine, whichhadboth a speakerandithad a microphone.
WhatDonNormanwillcallanaffordance. OK. Youdon't wantanyambiguityaboutwhatthisthing's for. Whatthisthing's forisforlisteningtohighqualitymusicwhileyou'reon a flightoron a trainjourney.
OK, somaybe a lastquestion. We'vecovered a lotofstuffatthispoint, whichmakesmeveryhappy. I askedpeopleonTwitterwhat I shouldaskyouwhenyouwerecomingonthepodcast. Andthemostcommonquestioncamearoundbrandingforstartups. Sosayyourstartup, you'retryingtofigureouthowdowebuild a brandforwhatwe'redoing. Doyouhaveanyadviceforearlystagefounderstohelpbuildtheirbrand, strengthentheirbrandovertime, somethingtheycoulddoearlyon?
So, firstofall, whenyouarenotfamous, youhavetofindallyourcustomers. Suddenly, youreachthismagicalsortofescapevelocityoffamewherepeoplestartcomingtoyouandtheystartsaying, haveyouthoughtofusingthisforthis? Oractually, youdidn't thinkofthisasanapplicationforyourproduct, but I'veactuallygotthis. Youknow, I actuallyuseitforthis.
OK, orserialkillers. Allright. OK. If I hadn't killedallthosepeople, noonewouldhaveheard. OK. OK. Therearepeopleforwhomfameislikeattributable. Butformostmostpeople, it's a wholewhatyoumightcallamalgamofdifferentactivities, youknow, goingbackyears.
OK, ifyou'refamous. Right. People, youknow, peoplegiveyouifyou'vegot a greatbrand. Thebestdefinitionof a brandisfromtheguywho's calledEricJohnson, I think, whowrotethebookBlindsight. Andhe's alsowritten a bookcalledBrandsThatMeanBusiness. It's a greatbook. Itdeservestobemuchmorefamous, actually.
有名人ならねそうだね。あなたが素晴らしいブランドを持っていれば、人々はあなたに好意を寄せてくれる。ブランドの最高の定義は、『ブラインドサイト』という本を書いたエリック・ジョンソンという人の言葉です。彼はまた、『Brands That Mean Business』という本も書いています。素晴らしい本です。もっと有名になってもいい本だと思います。
Andhisthere's a sentenceinthatbookwhichsayshaving a greatbrandmeansyougettoplaythegameofcapitalismoneasymode. And I genuinelycan't thinkof a betterdefinitionthanthat. Now, thepointaboutplayingoneasymodeis. Canyouquantifythevalueofthat? Well, no, becauseyoudon't knowwhatyourscorewouldhavebeenifyouwereplayingonhardmodeorpsychomode.
I'm not a gamer, but, youknow, youknowwhat I mean. OK. Andcanyoualsosaywhichofyourvariousactivitiescontributedtothatthebuildingofthatgreatbrand? Well, no, youcan't, becauseit's actuallynotevenit's notevenanamalgamofthings. It's actually a kindofconcatenation. It's, youknow, youknow, thereare a wholesetofelementsherewhicharecatalytic. They'renotlinear.
It's a bitlikewhen I firstgot a pensionforthefirstfewyears. Brandbuildingis a bitlike a pension. Right. Thefirstfewyears I had a pension. Oh, God, I'm payingthisguy a fewhundredquid a month. Andlook, I mean, youknow, halfit's goneincommissionandgoes a lotofwork. And I'd ratherhavethemoneytohaveanIndianmeal. Youknow, I don't knowwhy I'm doingthis. Oh, look, it's hardlygoneupatall. Andwhat a bore. What a wasteoftime. I thoughtthatforaboutthreeyears. I'm 58 now. I got a pension. I go, wheredidallthismoneycomefrom?
Oh, yeah. I mean, I mean, consistency, distinctiveness. Probablyclarity, clarityandjustbefamous. Yeah. Yeah. Somesortofsomesortofclarityofpromise, I think. Amazing. I think I think a goodbrandis a sortofpromise, butalsotheextenttowhichitcontributestotrust.
OK, whichisthatifyoumet a celebrityonthestreet, right. OK, I don't mean a serialkillercelebrity. I mean, a famousactor. OK. Onethingyouwouldn't thinkaboutisaretheygoingtostealmywallet? Aretheygoingtomugme? Aretheygoingtodoanythingwiththat?
Theymayhavelots, lotsofvices, butgenerallypeoplewhohave a lotofreputationalskininthegame, who'veinvested a lotinbuildingup a reputationovertimearegoingtobemuchmorecautiousaboutdisappointingtheircustomersorriskingnegativefeedbackthansomeonenobody's everheardof.
Threepeopleontheboardhaveneverheardofthecompaniesthattheywantyoutogobackandcheckwith. Andthenyouwalkinandyouknow, andit's kindofyou'refamous. Therulesaredifferent. Andwhen I saytherearealsotheseinflectionpointslikeescapevelocity, I alwayssayaboutCoke.
ButCokehasreached a magicalleveloffamewhereitisyourexpectationthatanyshoporbarorcafeorMichelinstarredrestaurantwillstockit. And I canaskforthisanywhere. OK. Andiftheyhaven't gotit, it's theirfault, notmine. That's that's reallykindofmegafame.
Sotherearelotsofthingshere, whicharesecondorder, thirdorder, non-linearcompoundingfactors. OK, youknow, wejusthavetorememberthisis a differentkindofmaths. Andyetwe'rebeingjudgedon a kindof, youknow, X minus Y equals Z maths. Doesn't makeanysense.
Thatallowsthemtodosomethingbyusingsomecleverapplicationoftech. Tryandusethosethreethingsinparallel, because I thinkwhatmostbusinessesdoistheytryanddothingsinseries. AndbusinessesborrowanawfullotfromthekindofFordist-Tayloristproductionlinementalityoftheprocess. OK, andtheprocess, wehavetopretendthattheprocessislinear.
Famously, WrigleystartedoffsellingsoappowderinChicago. Thenhestartedgivingawaybakingpowderfreetosellthesoappowderandthenrealizedhe'd startmakingbakingpowderandsellingthat. Andhegaveawaychewinggumthatwentonthebakingpowderas a gift. Andthenpeoplelikedthechewinggum a lotmorethantheylikedthebakingpowder. Soas a result, Wrigleybecame a chewinggumcompany.
Sobutwe'realwaystryingtomakethisthinglinearbecausewhenwetellstoriesbackwards, wepostrationalizeandwereverseengineerandwereverseengineerouractionstomakeitallseemperfectlylinearandlogicalas a kindofsensecheck. Therealprocessisneverlikethat.
And I thinkyoushouldhavemarketing. I thinkmarketingandtechnologyaretwosidesofthemarketingandinnovationaretwosidesofthesamecoin. Youeither, as I oftensay, youcaneitherworkoutwhatpeoplewanttofindout a cleverwaytomakeitoryoucanworkoutwhatyoucanmakeandfind a cleverwaytomakepeoplewantit.
WherecanpeoplefindyourbookandNudgestock? Pointthemrealquick. Nudgestock.com. Thebook's calledAlchemyandit's got a varietyofsubtitlesdependingonwhichcountryyou'rein. ButifyoulookforAlchemybyRorySutherland, theaudiobookisprobablythebestthingtobuybecause I actuallyreaditmyselfand I kindofriffed a bitfromthat, butalsoavailableonKindleandfromallgoodbookshopsandquite a fewrottenones.
Andthere's also a book I'veco-writtencalledTransportforHumans, co-writtenwithPeteDyson. Ifyou'reinthetransportationindustry, I'd recommendthatone. Amazing. Rory, thankyousomuchforbeinghere. Thankyouforthat. Alwaysenjoy.
また、ピート・ダイソンとの共著で『Transport for Humans』という本もある。もしあなたが輸送業界にいるのなら、この本をお勧めするよ。素晴らしい。ローリー、来てくれて本当にありがとう。ありがとうございます。いつも楽しんでいます。
Seeyouinthenextepisode.
また次のエピソードでお会いしましょう。
SteveJobswasnot a technologist, hewas a pitchman, hewas a brilliantsalesman, hewas a fantasticmarketer.