DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: We're in the Prado in Madrid,

and we're looking at the great canvas

by Velazquez, "Las Meninas."

DR. BETH HARRIS: Did you mean great in terms of size?

Because it is a very large painting.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: Actually, it's

a painting with a very large painting inside it.

DR. BETH HARRIS: That's the same size as the painting it is.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: In fact, some art historians

have suggested that the painting that Velazquez-- notice

there is a self-portrait of Velazquez in the active painting-- is in fact painting

the painting that we're looking at.

Did you follow that?

DR. BETH HARRIS: I did.

But it's very complicated.

So what we're seeing here is, in the center,

the princess attended by the maids of honor,

a dwarf, her governess, and some other attendants.

And, on the back wall, a mirror, which is the puzzle, in a way,

of the painting.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: We know it's a mirror

because, unlike the canvases on the back wall,

this is a much more reflective surface.

We can see the beveled edge of the glass.

And, of course, in that frame, we

see a reflection of the king and queen

of Spain, Philip IV and his wife.

And some art historians have suggested

that we must be them, looking into the mirror

and seeing our own reflection.

Others have suggested that, in fact, the mirror is reflecting

the image that's being depicted on the canvas by Velazquez.

And then even other art historians have suggested,

yes, the mirror's reflecting what's on the canvas.

But the king and queen are still standing

before us, which is why the princess is looking out at us.

And even the dog is, in a sense, taking notice.

DR. BETH HARRIS: And why there's just general attention being

very much focused on where we are in front of the painting.

Perhaps we're in the space of the king and queen.

And this painting was meant for the study of the king, who

would have been the person looking at it.

So it's very much meant for his gaze.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: That issue of looking, of gaze,

is I think for me really one of the central keys

to this painting.

It seems to me to be a conversation of glances,

a conversation of people reacting

to each other's glances, of looking

at self-- an essay on the way in which we see.

DR. BETH HARRIS: To me, it's more of paying attention.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: I think that's exactly right.

And that would make sense.

This is the king and queen of Spain,

one of the most powerful countries

on the face of the earth at this moment.

DR. BETH HARRIS: You'd have to pay attention to them

if they walked in the room.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: You would ignore them at your own peril.

Yes.

DR. BETH HARRIS: Exactly.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: And we can see it

when we see the artist Velazquez, who

was first painter to the king, looking out

to the royal couple.

He would have had, of course, the best

job that an artist could have in Spain at this moment.

I'm interested, though, in this sense

of naturalism, the sense of spontaneity,

the sense of informality, which is

so unexpected in a royal portrait.

DR. BETH HARRIS: That's the amazing thing

about this painting, I think, that

makes it so hard to say what it is, and makes it so compelling,

is that it's not a portrait.

Because we know what portraits look like.

They're on the walls all around us.

And there are very formal portraits of the royal family,

posing and looking powerful.

And that's not what this is.

So there's an informality, like a genre painting, like we're

looking at something like day in the life of the painter's

studio.

But that's not what is it because it's also a portrait.

So it sort of straddles this weird line

of being both those things.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: It's like, the intimate portrait.

It's a portrait that gives you access to, in a sense,

the real moment, the real life within this palace.

In fact, some art historians have

suggested that the painting is, in part, a way for the artist

to promote himself, and to show his importance,

and in a sense, his value to the Court.

DR. BETH HARRIS: The idea that, as a painter,

he's not just a craftsman but an intellectual.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: So here's the irony.

If Velazquez is, in a sense, trying

to support this notion of the artist

as intellectual, and not the craftsman,

not the man who works with his hands,

the painting is a bravura example of painting.

We can never get away from the fact

that this is fantastic painting.

Because although there's a tremendous sense of naturalism

amongst these figures, the painting

is also nothing but a series of strokes of paint.

And I think that's most vividly witnessed

in the sleeves of la infanta, of her attendants,

or especially that lightning bolt of a stroke of white that

goes down the artist's own sleeve

and actually leads our eye to the palette.

And here's the most wonderful conundrum.

The palette is a representation in space

of the raw paint, which is, of course, the very stuff

that the artist is using to create

the depiction of the thing that it is.

What I find so interesting though,

also, is that there's a time when the reverse happens.

Look at the way that his hand holds the paintbrush.

That is raw paint that almost dissolves.

It almost refuses to be fingers on a hand.

So that he's, in a sense, playing on that edge.

I can make very loose strokes of the brush feel clarified

and come together and feel like cloth in motion.

Right?

Reflective light, taffeta, what have you.

Or I can actually dissolve forms that you expect and allow

the thing to become just the act of painting.

DR. BETH HARRIS: Just the paint.

And I think what adds to this is the fact that we

don't see what he's painting.

There's a kind of mystery about the alchemy of painting.

About how you take medium, and solvent, and pigment

and turn it into reality.

DR. STEVEN ZUCKER: I would say that it's not

just reality he's after.

I think he's after a kind of condensed reality.

I think he's after a kind of heightened experience

of looking-- a kind of heightened

experience of the intimacy of this family, of this moment.

And I think that he's doing something that's actually

quite poetic and quite philosophical.

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