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  • Eric Green: Okay, well, it's a pleasure to have Kathy

  • Hudson here. I introduced the topic briefly with a slide in my director's report, but

  • we specifically wanted to have Kathy come and talk to council. I know council would

  • be interested in this topic, but also, it really is an interesting chapter. I didn't

  • even know what the title of her talk was going to be, but it really is an interesting story

  • to be told, how this played out. I will tell you, Kathy put in countless hours, if not

  • days and days, of effort navigating a very complicated circumstance. I, and several of

  • us from NHGRI, in particular Laura Rodriguez and Mark Guyer, and a couple others, were

  • quite involved on a regular basis on phone calls with Kathy as she sort of used us as

  • partners, and -- but as advisors, and helped to sort of navigate what was a much more complicated

  • quest for her than it was for us. But I saw enough of the front line of the story to just

  • see how challenging it was, and Kathy was just masterful at it in many ways. I also

  • think that the perspective that she co-authored with Francis, although I'm sure she did most

  • of the writing, was fantastic in the end, and if you haven't read that, you really should.

  • But I am going to let her just tell this story, but I really thought it would be special.

  • The timing couldn't be any better for a council presentation directly from Kathy on this interesting

  • story, so, Kathy.

  • Kathy Hudson: Thanks, Eric, for the invitation, and it's

  • nice to be here with you all, with some friendly, familiar faces around this table and in the

  • back of the room. Thanks very much.

  • So this is -- has been an interesting story to be a part of over the last several months.

  • I'll start with -- uh-oh. So I will start with a little bit of background, which I'm

  • sure you're all very familiar with, about Henrietta Lacks. She was born in 1920. At

  • the young age of 31 she was being treated at Hopkins for an aggressive form of cervical

  • cancer. Researchers took cells from her, and ended up being able to successfully start

  • a cell line, the first human cell line, as it turns out. The family, of course, has been

  • dealing with this situation ever since they learned that their mother's cells had been

  • used in this way. So how her identity became known, and how the family's identity became

  • known, I think, is relevant here.

  • So, in 1951, George Gey at Hopkins was able to get the HeLa cell line to grow in culture.

  • In 1971, there was a commentary, actually an obituary, published in "Obstetrics and

  • Gynecology," that identified Henrietta Lacks and included a photograph of her. The obituary

  • was of George Gey, and it was written by Howard Jones, who was otherwise known to many of

  • you as the father of IBF. In 1976 Victor McKusick, the father of human medical genetics, published

  • a paper describing the Lacks' pedigree, and specifically, was looking at HLA typing because,

  • at the time, it had become well-known that many later derived cell lines were contaminated

  • with HeLa, and so if you get any cell line near HeLa, HeLa takes over. And so Victor

  • McKusick and his team contacted family members and had them come back to Johns Hopkins to

  • provide blood samples. If you've read the book, "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks,"

  • you get a perspective of how there was a lack of clarity on the family's -- from the family's

  • perspective in terms of what exactly they were being asked to provide and why. So there

  • was a perception that they were being tested to find out whether or not they might have

  • the same disease that their mother died of.

  • In 1997 there was a documentary, and then probably most importantly for the general

  • public's understanding of this situation and identification of who the family is, and who

  • Henrietta Lacks was, was the publication in 2010 of "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks."

  • So how many people in the room have read "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks"? It seems

  • like you can't even get on an airplane nowadays without seeing somebody reading the "The Immortal

  • Life of Henrietta Lacks." So it is very, very, very widely known.

  • So if you do a Google search today for HeLa, you'll generate 2.5 million results. There

  • have been 74,000 scientific publications using HeLa cells and mentioning that. In the last

  • 10 years, most of the Nobel prizes have used HeLa cells as a part of their work, and even

  • our youngest scientists, of course, are using HeLa cells; and here are two examples from

  • the Intel Science Search and from the Siemens Competition.

  • So I don't think that many of us -- you know, all of us read the book, but I don't think

  • many of us gave much thought to what we were doing in our laboratories and the connection

  • to the family until March of this year when researchers in Germany posted the first whole

  • genome HeLa sequence in EBI, and, of course, it was mirrored in NCBI. Fairly quickly the

  • Twitter world lit up. Rebecca was aware that the sequence had been published. Rebecca Skloot,

  • the author of the book, was aware that the sequence was posted. She contacted the family,

  • and the family requested that the sequence be taken down. And, in fact, the authors agreed

  • to have the sequence taken down, and it was taken down quite rapidly, both from EBI and

  • NCBI.

  • As we started to look into the situation, we learned that there was another publication

  • pending with Nature that was funded by NHGRI. Of course, the German publication was not

  • supported by NIH. So there was an editorial that was published in the New York Times by

  • Rebecca Skloot, and in the process of generating that op ed, Rebecca reached out to her. And

  • I knew her from my days at Johns Hopkins at the Genetics and Public Policy Center because

  • she was a stringer for the Washington Post, and she wrote a very flattering article about

  • the Genetics and Public Policy Center soon after we launched, and we had remained in

  • contact ever since. So she talked to Francis Collins and myself, and ended up including

  • a quote from Francis in her editorial, and during our conversations, we asked if she

  • would connect us with the family. And she said she would think about that and talk to

  • the family about it. And that was very important for what's the rest of this story.

  • So in thinking about how to address the problem of what to do with the sequence that had been

  • taken down, and what to do with the sequence that was pending at Nature, we gave a lot

  • of serious consideration to how to make sure that we generated a solution that was the

  • right size for the problem; so not to create a solution that was ginormous and sort of

  • super-sized, but not also to create a solution that was too modest for the importance of

  • the situation. So in generating the solution to this problem, there were a lot of people

  • who played really, really important roles, notably Eric, Mark Guyer, Brad, Laura, and

  • Larry Thompson from the Genome Institute, as well as a slew of people from NCBI who

  • were instrumental in working with us, and folks in the Office of the Director. And this

  • was also a topic of conversation among the NIH leadership on a number of occasions with

  • the Institute directors from across the NIH.

  • So we had an opportunity, with the help from folks at Johns Hopkins, to meet with the family

  • over a series of months, and that was a fascinating experience. This is Francis taking a selfie

  • -- I'd never heard of a selfie; that's how under a rock I live -- on the day that we

  • announced our agreement with the Lacks family at Johns Hopkins, and standing directly next

  • to Francis is Jeri Lacks, her brother David Lacks, and their mother, standing there together.

  • There were many other members of the Lacks family who were present when we announced

  • our agreement.

  • So, on -- I can't remember the date, and I don't have my glasses, so I can't say it.

  • So we managed to reach an agreement, which I will talk to you a little bit about, and

  • also talk to you about how I think that this agreement is something that is going to be

  • evolving, and your input and thoughts would be really welcome. We did manage to reach

  • an agreement, and Jay Shendure's paper was published with the second full human genome

  • sequence, a commentary by Francis and I, and, at the same time, the German sequence was

  • reposted, but this time in dbGaP, so both Shendure sequence and the German sequence

  • were made available at the time of this publication.

  • So over the course of our time with the Lacks family -- and let me just say a couple of

  • words about the Lacks family. So the Lacks family is multi-generational, and it was multi-generations

  • that were participating in these discussions. They attended these meetings with me, and

  • Francis, and a couple of folks from Hopkins over a period of months. Where we began with

  • trying to just understand what the circumstance was, and then, over time, working towards

  • what would be the options for how we move forward, and then what were the respective

  • pros and cons, good, bad, and ugly, of each of those options. There were anywhere between

  • nine and 12 family members at any given meeting, and during the intervening times between our

  • meetings, they had discussions with their broader family, and at the end of the day,

  • they had a consensus position, which I think is a remarkable thing. I can't reach a consensus

  • agreement with my nuclear family about where to go to dinner.

  • [laughter]

  • So they really, you know, they are a remarkable, remarkable family.

  • So, elements of the agreement. So we opted to put the two whole assembled genomes into

  • controlled access in dbGaP, and require that researchers apply for access in order to get

  • to that. And the terms for access that a researcher must agree to in order to get access is that

  • they will use the sequence for biomedical research only; that they won't attempt to

  • contact the family; that they disclose whether they have plans for intellectual property,

  • or to develop a commercial product or service; and that they include a commitment to include

  • an acknowledgement in publications and presentations. And, in fact, I should note that Jay Shendure's

  • paper includes such an acknowledgement, and it's sort of the model of the first application

  • of that -- of that policy. So the policy also requires that future whole-genome data be

  • deposited into dbGaP, and we already have another submission that is in process, so

  • that would be the third HeLa sequence that will be in dbGaP.

  • In order -- so the way that dbGaP works for GWAS data, and this was a real learning experience

  • for me, and hat tip to Laura Rodriguez for walking me very slowly through this because

  • it was new; dbGaP sort of emerged after I left NIH the last time. So, ordinarily, there's

  • a Data Access Committee that looks over requests for access to data sets and determines whether

  • or not the researcher's proposal meets those criteria that were laid out in the original

  • consent. In this case, there is no consent. So what we are relying on are these conditions

  • that were set forth by the family, and it's important that this is a very unique circumstance,

  • and a point that we've tried to make over and over again about how this is not a precedent

  • for anything. This is an agreement that we've reached with the family to address a particular,

  • unique circumstance in science and ethics.

  • So our working group is going to operate much like a data access committee, but current

  • NIH data access committees are made up of NIH employees. It became apparent to us that

  • it would be advantageous to include members from the family in the review process, and

  • so that meant it couldn't be a DAC in the old-fashioned ways, and there are legal issues

  • in mixing feds and non-feds, so we ended up creating a working group of the Advisory Committee

  • to the Director, which is the highest advisory group to Francis, and we have had advisory

  • groups on a slew of important issues over the years. We currently have a working group

  • to the NIH director working on developing the scientific plan for the BRAIN initiative.

  • We have now the HeLa Data Access Working Group, and they will review each of these requests

  • as they come in.

  • The requests are submitted through a dbGaP study page; so there is a parent page about

  • HeLa, and then there are two, soon to be three, sub-pages. And on this page are special instructions

  • for researchers that really lay out the requirements that we want them to address in their data

  • access requests, and then also information about the data access working group, and also

  • the mechanism of how to submit another HeLa genome, if you have one.

  • So the HeLa Data Access Working Group was put together on the day that we announced

  • all these things that we announced. It is chaired by Renee Jenkins, who is an adolescent

  • medicine doc at Howard University. Also included are folks who you certainly know: Russ Altman;

  • Ruth Faden from Johns Hopkins, who was involved in discussions with the family, and so she

  • has a pre-existing relationship with the family that I think will be really helpful; David

  • Lacks, the grandson who you saw in the picture with Francis; Veronica Spencer, who was a

  • great-granddaughter from another son of Henrietta's; and Clyde Yancy, who is a member of our advisory

  • council. I will just skip that, we got lots of press.

  • So where are we now? We have, since August 19th, received -- actually, that says four.

  • We now have, over the weekend, a new one, we have five requests for access to HeLa data.

  • So working group is meeting for its inaugural meeting on September 12th, this week. They

  • will be reviewing those five data access requests, and we are optimistic that they will be operating

  • by consensus so that they can, as a group, send forward consensus recommendations to

  • provide -- to recommend to the Advisory Committee to the Director that access be granted or

  • not, or they can also request that there be more information solicited from the investigator.

  • There are a couple -- so one thing has been really important, particularly to Francis,

  • but I think it's been important to all of us, that this controlled access work effectively

  • and efficiently. So we want to be able to not have this stand in the way of research

  • moving forward. And, of course, you know, as researchers, would not like to have anything

  • slow us down by more than about three nanoseconds, so we are trying to have this process move

  • as quickly as possible. It is a new process, so this first round through, you know, we

  • were sort of getting our sea legs underneath us, but we -- if all works according to plan,

  • when we move these data access requests forward later this week, and on to the advisory committee,

  • which meets on September 16th, they will take action on them, and we will have finished

  • the entire review process in under a month. Hopefully, we'll be able to even shorten that

  • over time.

  • So one of the things that I think would be interesting to get your input on over time,

  • or any thoughts that you have, is what kind of data, HeLa data, needs to go into dbGaP?

  • We were, of course, responding to these assembled -- two assembled genomes that we knew about,

  • and now more, and so when we were thinking about what data goes in, we basically took

  • everything that was associated with the whole assembled genomes from both of the groups,

  • okay? So everything that they had, we slurped it into dbGaP. We were very candid with the

  • family all along, and we learned lots of interesting things about how much HeLa sequence actually

  • exists out there, and public databases today, and when the first sequences were around,

  • and it's just a massive amount of data, and so we were just very clear with the family

  • that it would be impractical, and, frankly, impossible, to take all that data that was

  • already out there and put it into controlled access, because it has already been downloaded,

  • and published, and recycled so many times that we couldn't really do it.

  • So at this moment in time, the data that's in dbGaP for HeLa is the whole assembled genomes

  • and sort of related sequence files. The question moving forward is, do we expand the policy

  • to ask that researchers generating any HeLa sequence date also submit it to dbGaP? And

  • that's an issue that Francis has asked the working group to take up. I think they probably

  • won't take it up robustly at this first meeting because they've got to sort of work through

  • these initial applications for access. But I'd be interested in thoughts that any of

  • you have either now, or send me an email, or give me a call. It's going to be an issue

  • that we're going to have to struggle with and get some resolution for the research community

  • in the near term.

  • So I think that's all I wanted to say. Yes, it is all I wanted to say. So I'd be happy

  • to answer questions, or respond to comments, or whatever.

  • Eric Green: Okay. Thank you, Kathy. I'm sure there will

  • be discussions. So, council members or others. Amy, we'll start with you.

  • Female Speaker: Thanks, Kathy. That was very helpful. So in

  • coming up with -- obviously, this was a unique case, and there's with a lot of unique sort

  • of circumstances surrounding the case, but in coming up with this policy solution for

  • this case, did you guys have broader discussions about policy around the rights of relatives,

  • of individuals who were generating sequence data on, and either prior to their death,

  • after they died, and how we're going to handle that, and how we're going to create policy

  • that is more scalable than this solution. Or do you see it as just unique?

  • Kathy Hudson: I really do see it as just unique. So we had

  • the conversations probably 15 years ago about consent from family members, and what role

  • do family members play, and I think that -- my own position is that if an individual opts

  • to participate in genetics research or to learn about their genome outside of a research

  • setting, that that decision should not be overridable by family members. There certainly

  • are people who have taken the approach that if you are going to be in this genetic study,

  • or if you're going to get this genetic information as a part of your clinical care, that you

  • should seriously think about how you talk to your family members about that. But I don't

  • think that this circumstance -- you know, there were some erroneous representations

  • of what we were doing here is suggesting that family members can sort of dictate what happens

  • to sort of proband genetic information, and that really is not the case. We have -- this

  • situation has certainly fed into the department's consideration about its revisions to the common

  • rule more broadly, but the issue of what are the regulatory and legal requirements for

  • family members is really not something that we're taking up as a policy initiative at

  • the present time.

  • Eric Green: Carlos.

  • Carlos Bustamante: So, I want to thank you also for the presentation.

  • I think it's, you know, fascinating, and it's great to see the right thing get done. Sort

  • of following up on Amy's question, not so much focused on family members but focused

  • on cell lines. So, you know, there are a large number of cell lines out there that are sort

  • of in this nether region where they were produced well before, say, 1,000 Genome consents and

  • other consents that explicitly say, look, you know, these are going to be broadly disseminated

  • and dot dot dot, so I'm thinking, if things are in Coriell, or other cell lines that are

  • out there, some of which we ourselves have sequenced, what are the thoughts there in

  • terms of policy? Is it a sort of case by case, or is there a sort of -- thinking of grandfathering

  • some of these in? Have you had those discussions, and if not, is there a plan to have that?

  • Kathy Hudson: So that's a great question. So one of the

  • unique features of HeLa is how widely known who she is and who her family is, and so we

  • have tried to look into whether or not there are other similar situations, other similar

  • cell lines. And from our review, there is probably one that is not on the same scale,

  • but where the donor's identity is known, where the cells are widely used, and where the donor

  • has known or knowable progeny. So we -- that's sort of a special case. And then there's all

  • the cells and specimens that are out there that have been procured for research, either

  • with consent being waived or used in a de-identified way. And I think that the department is seriously

  • thinking about how do we handle those that we already have versus how do we handle ones

  • that we will acquire in the future, given that DNA analysis now makes samples so readily

  • identifiable. So it's something that we're thinking about.

  • Male Speaker: Kathy, can we back up a little bit and talk

  • about the data that exists for the HeLa cells, in, I think, it was in about 160 gigabases.

  • And then thinking forward, there's a number of large projects that are ongoing today that

  • are using HeLa cells, and what the criteria might be for deciding what would go into dbGaP,

  • or what's the working group thinking. I know you're not, you know, a mind reader, but there

  • are a lot of considerations about ongoing projects.

  • Kathy Hudson: Yeah.

  • Male Speaker: And how would they be distinguished from,

  • for example, all the kinds of data that are already in NCBI.

  • Kathy Hudson: That's a great question, and it's one that

  • we really are just starting to ruminate about, and, you know, you guys -- this council is

  • in a very interesting position to be able to even just raise what are the considerations

  • here that we -- that the working group should know about. You know, we did look at what

  • data is out there already, but we haven't done a systematic look at what are the current

  • funded or ongoing research projects where HeLa data is sort of embedded in those initiatives

  • in a thorough way. So this is really something where we're just starting to -- starting to

  • think through the ramifications of all of this.

  • Male Speaker: Maybe I missed a bit, but what is being done

  • to help the Lacks family interpret the available genome in terms of health or medical relevance?

  • Kathy Hudson: So, a couple of things. One is that in our

  • early discussions, and Jeri Lacks says that she felt like she was in Genetics 101, we

  • were in a conference room at Johns Hopkins, and there was a white board, and low and behold,

  • Francis was up drawing pictures. So we -- I think a lot of our time with them was providing

  • some of the basics about, well, what is a genome anyway, and what can it tell you about

  • you, and what does it mean if it's not your genome but your parents' genome or your grandparents'

  • or your great grandparents' genome. And then, as a part of that conversation, we made -- we

  • made the family aware of ongoing research studies in which they could obtain their own

  • genomic information rather than trying to divine probabilities from their great-grandmother

  • or grandmother.

  • So we shared with them that could participate in some of these research studies where they

  • would affirmatively consent and learn this information, potentially, about themselves.

  • We also made available to them a genetic counselor and a medical geneticist who were provided

  • with data and a 60-page printout from somebody -- and I actually don't know who it was -- who

  • pushed the sequence, when it was up on the EBI site, pushed that sequence through SNPedia,

  • and had a variant readout, and so our medical geneticist and genetic counselor walked through

  • that data with the family, or some members of the family who were interested.

  • So that's sort of what we have provided. We have offered that they can meet with those

  • folks once again. We've offered that they can participate in protocols like ClinSeq.

  • And then I think that, in an ongoing way, especially the members of the working group,

  • the family members on the working group, are gonna continue to be in a-- well, let me back

  • up. Everybody on the working group is going to be in a learning mode here because this

  • is sort of uncharted territory. David Lacks sent me an email after I sent him some materials

  • about the working group and about what the first meeting was going to be, and he is actively

  • engaged in understanding the nuances and sort of exploring this. So I think -- I think we're

  • enjoying that exploration process, but we are trying to provide what we can. And it's,

  • you know, it's -- they got dumped into unfamiliar territory here. So...

  • Eric Green: [inaudible]

  • Female Speaker: Thanks, again, Kathy. I would just ask -- wanted

  • to ask you a question about, in the list of the considerations when they're reviewing

  • the applications, was plans for commercial -- disclosure of commercial plans -- could

  • you tell us a little more about that? I think that's really interesting, and where that's

  • coming from.

  • Kathy Hudson: Yeah, so I think the family, historically,

  • has had the issue of, "Is somebody getting rich and we're not," has been a theme for

  • some members of the family forever. And it certainly came up in the context of our discussions.

  • We, interestingly, between the second meeting we had with the family and the third meeting

  • we had with the family, we got the Supreme Court decision about the patentability of

  • non-manipulated genomic sequences. And that actually helped us a lot, right? So in trying

  • to think through -- so the family asked us questions like, "Can you imagine what would

  • be immediately sort of a first order commercializable thing from the HeLa sequence?" And, you know,

  • we thought long and hard about what that would be, and we were -- we came up with a few ideas,

  • and then we disproved our own idea. So we didn't come up anything that was sort of obvious,

  • but we also aren't all-knowing, so we didn't want to say, "Absolutely nothing will come

  • out of this that will be commercializable," and you'll read about it in the Wall Street

  • Journal.

  • And one of the things that we have been extremely sensitive to is this family keeps on getting

  • surprised. Right? Whoops, another surprise. So we cannot legally tell somebody who is

  • trying to access sequence that they have to vary their intellectual property, or give

  • up their intellectual property, or whatever. But they can -- we can ask them to disclose

  • it. And so if they disclose it, and it's known, then if the family seeks to reach out to them

  • and have a conversation, that's outside of our sphere. And just knowing about it was

  • really important to them, so we also have a requirement that if, when you submit your

  • application or data access request, and you say, "No, I don't have any immediate plans,"

  • if those plans change, they're required to update it.

  • Female Speaker: Okay, but the implications of this -- so that

  • this might be grounds for no access.

  • Kathy Hudson: No.

  • Female Speaker: No? No, okay. Because it is interesting in

  • the common rule -- I mean, in the informed consent documents right now, it's often disclosing

  • you have no commercial interest, this could be commercially developed, so it sort of set

  • that as the standard, contextually anyway.

  • Kathy Hudson: That's right.

  • Female Speaker: Okay.

  • Kathy Hudson: Yeah.

  • Female Speaker: Is the demarcation for the biomedical research

  • only that that means not ancestry research, or is there something else, just that?

  • Kathy Hudson: Could it be something else? I haven't really

  • thought about it. But yeah, so there have been categories that have been used in dbGaP

  • in the past, and we sort of presented those to the family. And ancestry was out, but there

  • are other, based on informed consents, there are lots of data sets in dbGaP that have much

  • narrower data access criteria, so only breast cancer, only this or that. So this is actually

  • incredibly broad. And the working group, of course, can modify -- make recommendations

  • for modifications to this policy over time if it turns out that it's needed, but...

  • Male Speaker: Kathy, I know you don't want to try and set

  • precedent with this, but I'm just wondering, looking at those criteria, as we've been talking

  • to human genetics researchers a little bit about using dbGaP, I can -- thinking about

  • some of those conversations, I can hear them saying, "I would like to be able to exercise

  • that provision on my dbGaP data. I'd like to be able to tell my study population that

  • any commercial plans would be disclosed, to me at least." Is there any possibility or

  • thought about -- I mean, obviously, dbGaP has its own rules about use, but you could

  • almost imagine a menu, a checklist, of a couple of things like this maybe investigators could

  • sort of put on there, their own dbGaP databases. Is that something that's been talked about

  • at all?

  • Kathy Hudson: Not directly, but there are, you know, there

  • are cohorts out there that have restrictions on who can access data, so I'm looking at

  • Teri. Isn't it true that Framingham now has some ability of cohort participants to say

  • that the data can't be accessed by private sector?

  • Teri Manolio: There are -- actually, there are a couple

  • cohorts that have [inaudible].

  • Kathy Hudson: Yeah, yeah. So there are things -- it's not

  • so much that you can't commercialize it, but if you are a commercializer, you can't get

  • it. So...

  • Eric Green: Any other questions, comments? So, as Kathy

  • offered, I'm sure they're interested to hear any other thoughts you have. Send her an email,

  • or I'm sure she'd get on the phone and talk to you. This is still a work in progress,

  • but -- okay, thank you, Kathy, for visiting with us.

  • Kathy Hudson: Yep.

  • Eric Green: And we're staying right on time, right?

  • Rudy Pozzatti: Okay, this is good, we're doing well. So next

  • up is Teri Manolio, who's going to give a report from the Genomic Medicine Working Group.

Eric Green: Okay, well, it's a pleasure to have Kathy

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データ共有とHeLaゲノム配列 - Kathy Hudson (Data Sharing and the HeLa Genome Sequence - Kathy Hudson)

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    Precious Annie Liao に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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