on the The Daily Social Distancing Show.

Happy to be with you, Trevor.

Um, let's get straight to the matter at hand.

You are fighting for an issue

that has been raised by a few and ignored by many--

the issue of people who are locked up in prison right now,

and may be about to experience some of the worst effects

of the coronavirus.

Tell me why you think this is such a big issue,

and what do you think needs to be done?

Well, first, the foundational fact

that really is at the core of the issue,

and that is that the United States incarcerates more people

than any nation on the planet.

Two point three million Americans

are behind bars.

Six point seven million Americans are ensnared

in some way in the justice system.

Those people are living,

in some ways, on a cruise ship.

A cruise ship that is destined

to be a life sentence for many people.

People who are simply there

because they couldn't post bail.

Mm-hmm.

Because they had a technical violation,

like the gentleman

who died this week at Rikers Island,

the notorious Rikers Island here in New York City.

The county jail where a 53-year-old black man died.

He was there for a technical violation.

That means he missed a meeting with his parole officer,

or he broke curfew.

That is not a reason to be sentenced to death.

I think everyone would agree,

or you would hope most people would agree.

Um, the question would come, though,

from many people who would say, "What can be done?"

You know, um, you have these prisoners who are locked up.

You have people who are in the prison system

in some way, shape or form.

But what would you propose gets done in this situation?

Well, there are actions that governors can take.

And in fact, we're seeing actions.

Our governor here in New York state, Governor Cuomo,

released 1,100 people from Rikers.

Governor Pritzker in Illinois, Governor Polis in Colorado,

Governor Newsom in California

have all taken aggressive steps to release people.

We can release, uh, elderly people.

There are tens of thousands of people behind bars

who are elderly and infirm.

There are people who are within six months

-of their date of release. -Mm-hmm.

Why not accelerate the release of these people

and make it possible for them

to not be subjected to this virus,

which in many ways is a heat-seeking disease

for black and brown people?

Because it metastasizes

around the very conditions

that our community is victims to.

That is, the condition of chronic disease--

hypertension, asthma, high blood pressure, obesity.

And this disease is like a heat-seeking disease that...

a virus that finds these populations

and ultimately kills.

Here's the... here's the question,

to play devil's advocate,

that-that... that many people would ask.

They would say, "I understand

"that you don't want anyone to die from this, but

"how do you convince the population at large

"that people who have been locked up

"for maybe committing a crime,

"as opposed to a technical violation,

"should be allowed out?

"You know, is this not endangering

the public at large?"

How would you respond to that?

There's tons of research.

This is an issue that has been debunked.

And so it's not about public safety.

There are literally thousands of people incarcerated

-for low-level crimes. -Mm-hmm.

They can be released,

and it is in no way a challenge for public safety.

Obviously, this is an issue

that is being amplified by the coronavirus.

But it feels like the coronavirus is exposing issues

that have long laid dormant

or even alive within America itself.

After the coronavirus has gone,

once life returns to normal,

I know that you have oftentimes been call upon

by leaders, such as Joe Biden, to give your opinion

and to try and help, you know, shape policy.

What do you think America needs to do moving forward

to try and prevent the prison system

from experiencing what it's experiencing today,

and what it was experiencing before the coronavirus hit?

We simply need to look at our history.

At the time of every crisis...

Let's just look Katrina.

Katrina exposed the inequality

in our society

that is manifest in race and racism

and America's racist history.

We didn't learn the lessons there.

We're once again being presented

with a national emergency

that exposes the core issue

of inequality and race.

And the question is,

are we going to learn the lesson this time?

Let us not forget

that philanthropy cannot

take the place of government.

All of the giving in this country combined

in the aggregate in one year is less

than the smallest government,

federal government agency.

And so while I am very proud-- and we should celebrate

the generosity of Americans--

we also need competent government.

Competent government

and generous philanthropy can do great things.

Thank you so much for taking the time today.

Um, I'm hoping

that your words are heard by the people in power,

and, um, we'll continue to get the message out.

-Thank you, Trevor. -Thank you so much.