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  • Good morning and welcome to Sunday supplement.

  • There was Maur, Veet or controversy in the Premier League yesterday.

  • But how can the system be improved?

  • Frank Lamp Pole has done the double over.

  • Joseph Marino will be discussing a big win for Chelsea.

  • It's our tester versus Angelotti when Arsenal face Everton on Super Sunday later.

  • But what impacts how the two managers had on their respective teams on in the final part of today's show?

  • We'll be discussing how the relationships between journalists and football clubs have evolved over the past few years, now joining us to discuss all these topics and a few more besides our Jeremy Cross, the chief sportswriter at The Daily Star.

  • Darren Lewis, football writer at The Mirror on Jonathan North Croft, football correspondent at The Sunday Times Don't forget to tweet the show at Sunday supper, and the best will play appear on screen over the next 90 minutes.

  • Also now, if I just give you one guess as to what is dominating about pages this morning, it's not particularly the rugby or athletics or even boxing, though there is a bit of that.

  • It is v a r.

  • My Lord v a R, and there is quite a lot of it.

  • All the puns in there.

  • Well, the headline writers devastated that Jamie Vardy wasn't involved because that would have really topped it off.

  • But the sun has a bridge too far, the less also leg breaker.

  • As Frank Lampard described it, The fact that it wasn't a red card, it wasn't even a yellow card.

  • For goodness sake, we'll be talking about that.

  • The Sunday Times, which is Johnny North Crofts paper kind of making the point there.

  • That quite possibly maybe it should have been a red card, something that Sir Pgmol did admit later on during the game So soon.

  • Human error in there form Earth.

  • Get top billing in terms of the beer, the V A R controversy in The Observer and a bit of football breaks out on the top there, with Olivier Giroud scoring for Chelsea and their win over top of them sour Cherries with warm earth and via off both Pgmol say they were the decisions in that particular game.

  • Something will be discussing best of city winning away at Sorry Man City.

  • Winning away at Leicester on DDE in the mail on Sunday Fury at V a r farce.

  • We've got a big red stamp on their via all the joy killer football.

  • Johnny's nodding away lamb pod.

  • Not happy issue there.

  • James Sharp and Andrew Warshaw talking about football in the dock over concussions.

  • Sub delay because there was an issue in the Lester Man City game with being punched by goalkeeper on what should happen with that on Ali Holt's column.

  • Always worth a read at the best of times, particularly today.

  • If you agree, I am I allowed to say I agree with Implanted A dually completely agree with your a V A.

  • R is not perfect by any means, but it still makes more sense at the NASA in Bangor and his crazy idea, which was that?

  • Any parts off the attacking player being onside offside, Onside sees upside.

  • There you go.

  • Told you wasn't straightforward.

  • Don't think they're gonna do that.

  • Now let's let's start by talking about this, because Johnny, it dominated football yesterday and we've still got another three fixtures today.

  • And another one tomorrow before P.

  • J.

  • Manuel get past the whole weekend.

  • What did you make of it all?

  • Well, I was at last the Manchester City game, and I've always tried Thio be a journalist that doesn't write about refereeing.

  • My brother's a referee in Scotland have always thought, Let's just try and focus on the match.

  • It's becoming impossible.

  • On yesterday, you couldn't ignore.

  • They are.

  • There's a really good game of football between last romance City City.

  • We're on more or less the best form, great possession play, lest of a really dangerous.

  • And moments have been lovely to write about that.

  • But, you know, there were three really contentious decisions involving the same V R that we've had who made a very contentious decision in the Spurs Chelsea game.

  • It started when James Madison had a free kick.

  • Kevin O'Brien basically puts hand in front of his face and batted it away.

  • No penalty.

  • Um, 20 minutes late in the second half, Good again.

  • Takes a short Dennis Pratt puts his hands up.

  • It was a penalty.

  • Now that was correctly penalty.

  • Why the boy?

  • The one wasn't a penalty.

  • Nobody knows what.

  • Can I just step in the exact spent?

  • Most my evening on the train coming back from the forest game to Pgmol and in the view of the V A l.

  • Kevin deploying his arm was arms were tucked in on in an expected position for the action of jumping and protecting his face, which is allowed to do.

  • Andi says it looked like it might have hit its side first.

  • Not entirely short doted on that front, but was it natural position, or did he slightly push his arms out?

  • Well, it's a natural position if you want to put your hand in front of your face when the ball's coming towards it.

  • But I think I've always been a penalty since well began on that explanation from the P M r o l.

  • There's been there's been a sense ever since implementation of V R began.

  • I think that they've just been making things up on the hoof.

  • There was one the biggest problems that we haven't had a consistent vision of how it's gonna be applied for specific decisions.

  • It's always felt made up on the hoof.

  • Yes, they really felt like that when you had those two decisions which look very similar.

  • Different reasons for the prattle on his arms were further away from his body, weren't they?

  • Yeah, the prop one, he was turning his back on the ball and he had his arm out.

  • But it's not any less of a natural thing to do.

  • Then put your arm out in front of your face.

  • I mean, it's Marjorie's subjective.

  • I think one of the one of the points is that way.

  • Started with V R.

  • Because we thought that it might eliminate some of the inconsistencies and deafening on his Pep Guardiola's suggest ve ard's machine.

  • But the machine is run by human beings, and I think where we are is that we've seen that it hasn't eliminated any of the inconsistencies because human beings are at the heart of it.

  • So I thought, maybe that's always gonna be the way some I would question.

  • If we're no further forward, then is there any point to having?

  • I never really thought I would be sitting here saying that I wanted via when it came in.

  • I like the idea of progress.

  • I think you gotta move with the times, like if the World Games got, I think the English game should have it all that kind of stuff.

  • But yesterday was the first day I thought, you know, what if We're still going to get to the point where it's about human error.

  • It's a boat inconsistency that's always gonna happen when human being a place of ALS going through all the things that we've got to go through to get there may not be worth it.

  • It is only the first season they done that.

  • They've had it every week in the Premier League, thes officials who have learned their trade one way and now doing things differently.

  • And we're only in February in their first full season do we not need to give him a little bit more time for it to bed in and for the for the directives that come from P.

  • J.

  • Manuel and ultimately from my fat for them to really seep in and become common practice.

  • And I think it's good that you've got the response and paid your bail.

  • And I think it's quite important that we don't use this for referee bashing because obviously they do have has always been said a very difficult job.

  • But there is a clear case, as you say, John, but it would appear that you just make it up as they go along, because within the space of 90 minutes.

  • Their position on the less also challenge had gone from.

  • He had nowhere to put his foot to.

  • Yes, we got it wrong.

  • It was a potential leg breaker on.

  • He should have been set until for it the other.

  • There were lots of questions.

  • Explanation of the V a R.

  • That that was their explained their thinking.

  • They're not saying he was right in saying that.

  • They're explaining what the DEA ers waas, but somehow Jackie, this has been spun to make it look as though the pgmol deserve credit for putting their hands up instead of the P Joe Morelle.

  • What the referees and you came and friend, when you look at the frame off the incident, Kevin Friend is staring straight at the INS.

  • And what's his wife?

  • Why is he in his role as the fourth official?

  • Not said something?

  • Why is he being not being more vocal on?

  • Why have we got a guy who was far more inexperienced as the VE are advising a guy who's got over 200 matches and if on why, having made that mistake is David Coot, then they are for the Leicester City matches the city get that comes around the Seltzer thing.

  • It was another area where it just looks like may be made up because until yesterday, I don't think we've got a situation where the startling Parker's commented almost straight away on an instant, that seemed a very new thing.

  • Brendan or just brought up saying, You know, if end it's staggering that he was driving in the game on the V R.

  • Who was about to do Lester game was already the subject of an apology from Stop the part before last the game happened.

  • So that was the first that why they felt the need to suddenly explain.

  • And it's great that they admitted they were wrong.

  • But why did they suddenly explain?

  • We got something wrong in the middle of a match day when they hadn't done before.

  • That comes back the problem.

  • That it just feels like they're just sort of reacting to things in the moment.

  • And there's no clear, understandable policy would be easier Jackie for all of them if they just consulted a monitor on the side of the pitching, Acknowledge, perhaps Michael Oliver should have gone over to the monitor to check thistle after the event.

  • Oh, Jackie, this should mean he's done it before.

  • Why would he not do it again?

  • Particularly in a situation like maybe he's caught between two minds?

  • Because original as we know, it took so long for a referee to go over to the monitor in this country this season because they don't want these games to be prolonged because it is such a global sport now.

  • And the brand of the Premier League, they don't want to go to be going 97 98 minutes.

  • Germany.

  • So can you understand?

  • Maybe in the referees mindset, you thinking they don't really want me to go over?

  • Should I shouldn't have been instructed to, are they?

  • So what?

  • How long would it take to go and look?

  • Att.

  • One replay of incident yesterday.

  • Chelsea go everyone in the country.

  • Now everyone around this table now is that that was a red card.

  • So on Oliver, I think it's a decent referee to be fair, but he's got in a right pickle yesterday and I think it's a shambles, to be honest, the hell Viard I agree with Johnny completely.

  • The technology is there to try and take away human error aspect of refereeing officiating football matches.

  • But it's not happening because human beings is still making mistakes.

  • And, you know, unless there is a drastic improvement for starting next season, you might as well go back to just way always used to gain a one referee in two linesmen.

  • We got to go back to what?

  • Why it was introduced.

  • It was introduced to stop really serious mistakes.

  • And yet we're in a situation where a broken stamping, another bloke and that doesn't get corrected.

  • And yet someone's offside by an armpit.

  • And that gets changed.

  • And I think that's a problem fans have got with it that it seems to be addressing them a new Shea.

  • But the big stuff is still going wrong.

  • So is actually worth when he should've.

  • Kiki could well, about a broken leg yesterday on the player who committed the offense didn't get booked.

  • That was extraordinary things.

  • I didn't even get a yellow card, and later Edison punches your natural in the face again.

  • He just got the ball first, and maybe that was a decision that but interestingly, we found one person who thinks that shouldn't be a red card on that was a former, very competitive Premier League midfielder.

  • Call, Henry says.

  • Watch several times.

  • Never red card for mailers also is trying to put his foot on top of the ball.

  • There's no intent or forced from him.

  • Azpilicueta's slides with falls under less Also sport.

  • So it looks bad.

  • Understanding what he's trying to do with the ball is essential here.

  • Michael Oliver is watching.

  • They got maybe that's what he was jacked.

  • Our referees were called Henry's name in the notebook way Go from him because, well, you get to Belfast if you like next Saturday because I fab have got one of their meetings which were fascinated to know.

  • Are there going to be looking at the the wider line of the of the off side, which is something that's that's contentious?

  • Something only hold there in his pieces, saying we just need to get our heads around the fact that offside offside forget their little bit toe May toe, foot off side is offside.

  • What do you think's gonna come out of that meeting?

  • Well, I think what's gonna come out is why are the English not using the rules?

  • You know for the instruction that we've given them.

  • I'm sure you must be tired of asking us about it, and I think everyone is tired of talking about it.

  • But it's so simple.

  • Just have a monitor on the side of the pitch.

  • If you have to look at an incident Morgan, maybe 30 seconds or a minute, quite clearly it's not clear and obvious.

  • But if you have a situation like that, you're unsighted on DDE.

  • Listen in the Burnley game, Mike Dean was unsighted and he gave a podcast in the week where he talked about the fact that as an experience referee players understand that if he makes decision, they can go along with it because he's got more time in the game.

  • And yet you saw in that game a couple of incidences where goals were chopped off.

  • I felt so sorry.

  • We're born with yesterday, no one screaming about it because it's tiny border.

  • But they had a legitimate goal which would change the course of the game chalked off because the ball was deemed turf well, it hit the guy shoulder and it was deemed to be humbled, absolutely ludicrous.

  • A spokesperson, PJ well, here but I'm just gonna have to put their point of view because they tell the referees to adjudicate on.

  • So we'll have our opinions on but shoulders no humble shoulder sample.

  • So I answered, yes, say specifically what it is, and we sent a picture of a shirt and it is from the armpit.

  • If you draw a line from your armpits, in fact, where you're where you're there we go.

  • That would be lovely.

  • Thank you.

  • That line direct really up there.

  • So if you look again at the Philip Billing shoulder ball, which led to what we thought was a gold for King for balm of Burnley, actually, it did hit that bit.

  • So the officials were adjudicating according to what they've been.

  • Has that been communicated?

  • There was the PGA Mel.

  • Well, worldview on.

  • There is everyone else's world view on everyone else's world view.

  • Is that your shoulders here?

  • If the ball hits you there, that's no Hample.

  • You are no attempting to sorry for You're not attempted to control the ball with your up.

  • It's hit him there and I look at that 10 2030 times.

  • I don't see that the whole thing with shoulders armpits That isn't the pgmo else fault.

  • That's a consequence of having a system where you, at some point you have to draw the line is here or if it's armpits in offside, that's what's always gonna happen with the system.

  • But that's what I mean about how a consequence of unforeseen consequence, probably is that its ruling on the My new Shea.

  • But it's still not really on the big stuff.

  • So what you say doesn't just get, maybe simplify it?

  • Maybe referees will go over the monitor when alert to major instance and major instance of Materia only on bowling the Borg in style and mistaken identity and that be it.

  • That's what I was brought in for.

  • That's the idea was how suggestion that Coop will be disciplined over this issue.

  • We're making a mistake yesterday because when referees get things badly wrong that sometimes get demoted, don't they have a week off?

  • So you should be a our leak to game or something?

  • Well, you know, is going badly wrong that he's going badly wrong in the Premier League.

  • Why should be given another game where the points are just as important, army and lead to lead it again.

  • Straight.

  • I think that's what I felt.

  • I felt sorry for Mystic.

  • He must have come out of that Chelsea game.

  • No, he'd made a mistake.

  • Never makes mistakes.

  • Any monsters?

  • Wished it could go home.

  • You had another game to do in the evening.

  • I must have hoped it was gonna be quite gaming.

  • It wasn't punishment.

  • But if somebody makes a mistake, is the right thing to punish them?

  • Or is it to educate that?

  • Is it t to sit him down?

  • And it's not about Hey, you.

  • You made a big mistake in front of the world which call Henry disagrees with, by the way, but isn't a case of sitting down and having a