We'll talk about kicking off that conversation.

How hard is it to do that in a football environment?

And I think it's always bean hard because of that, the top of individuals on the type of game that it is, you know, it's we've always seen as a manly game and something that that if you have problems you don't particularly want to open up.

I think you don't want to open up.

I think, to the players.

I think one thing that probably hasn't changes that you know that first line of contact is generally with the manager, and I think that would be exactly the same now as it would would have Bean back in the day, which was just witnessed, I think a wonderful interview, and I'm quite sure that for any of the hose that Merced that had his problems is that he would have gone to the manager, so that will always be the first line of contact.

That there's a big difference now is that I think this farm or help around the club.

We spoke with Graham earlier aboutthe HR departments, that club.

Now that far bigger than what they were before.

And I think there is a new avenue for that type of conversation as there wasn't before.

Do you think manages a bit better prepared to have that conversation?

Now I'm thinking back.

I can't think how many years, 15 years, 20 years, maybe Stan Collymore, an Aston Villa, was suffering depression during his football career at Villa and was made to feel like a pariah because of it.

I don't think that they're better prepared.

I think they there would be more cases.

I think now I think if I I don't want to take anything away from the previous managers that have had these conversations have had players about difficulties, depression, gambling or so that have knocked on the door and need help on Dev assisted in in the correct way.

But I think now it's it's far more open, I think Maur players.

I think there are more players that are prepared to knock on the manager's doing it and I think the them conversations, I think, can be that little bit easier now.

It's very hard for a player in a dressing room, especially if you're at the top end of football.

Um, you know, you would think one of the guys there's a scene is a sign of weakness.

You know, if you if you see all I'm struggling because off just the pressures of football or whether it's gambling or drinking, you'd be scared to talk about it.

And, you know, football or football.

Is there such a role model for so many young kids there?

And men, you know, be great If there, if there were more open about a no Doubter is I think social media is exaggerated.

A problem enormously.

But I know that dressing rooms can be an extremely harsh police and my expensive football, the further you go up the tree and more successfully are the more brutal is and you'd be seen is not coming up.

Describe someone who who was weakened and really shouldn't be in the stress from If you were, I'm struggling with something.

I think it would still exist in the top dressing room, city and maybe all the way down to the other leagues where if you came out and you expressed, you were struggling with whatever that would be seen as weak, and that's that's That's something.

How you got over that?

I'm not sure.

I think that's something we have to address.

I would my tenant.

Liverpool's apply was so lucky, but running Miranda was after us every day.

But we're also the guy called your figure and who became manager, who was, You know, he was like everyone's favorite granddad.

If he had any issues, I told you to go to him.

So we were lucky in that respect.

But can't I never witnessed that?

Never heard off.

Never experienced anyone coming and seeing what I'm struggling with this.

I'm struggling with that.

I'm gonna need some help, But maybe they thought they couldn't.

They couldn't.

And that's the problem, I'm sure.

By and large, that existed idea.

I think we really difficult and any gesture I'm up and down the country, especially at the highest level, with under so much pressure, the mid the social media must be.

I don't understand it myself.

That's something I don't take part in.

But, you know, if you're slightly yeah, that's something you have to.

I think it's is a different place.

Now I talk to young players and I think they are a so when I first went to Liverpool 17 18 years of age and walked into that dress and fierce.

I mean, you have to try and stand on your own two feet and it was difficult.

But when things weren't going your tested the maximum.

I mean, when I think back now, I mean to a certain extent.

If you couldn't handle it, you just melted and just went away.

That's how it was.

And there were times it is very difficult for myself, another young players including.

But I do think it's easier for players now.

The biggest problem that grand touching it.

So his social media is.

It is an awful place for young players Now.

I, I think to myself, Would I be on social media if I played now?

Probably the way I am.

I might have been that person.

It read those comments, and some people were never got.

When they've got the ability there at home on, they can just write whatever they like.

No matter how much abuse at somebody, and you have to just take it on the chin, that's very, very difficult.

But we've seen a situation where this weekend, where a young lady's taking their life and you think you could just have a little bit more help, you know, and not perhaps had the abuse and people questioning her and on level in a beauty nobody should have to go through.

And I think now the world is or people now have to be nicer to each other because that those days are over.

And I think that we have to the fact that we're having campaign.

I thought that said a little Jamie.

That's not gonna happen, though, is it?

I think I think I think people now the amount of times that you know I'm not on Twitter I couldn't be on Twitter.

I think that a life of my own experience of it completely unpleasant off some of the things that I've seen, that people just didn't have a right to be out to say anything.

They want to people, and that's not right.

It's not correct.

You have to imagine a dressing room.

We've all been in dressing as many dressing rooms.

How difficult would be for an individual.

He was feeling that two cities meet that site of armor that side of him or whoever else suggestion.

What I'm struggling with, whatever I can very well be seen to be seen and this is where it's wrong would be seen as a weakness.

We seen it.

You, I think, by certain people in dressing room you really shouldn't be in the stress from if you can't man up and deal with the challenges that we're all dealing with for a difficult I know.

But I think I think, what's what's what's a little bit different now?

I think also too.

I think the play.

I think it's also about playing.

I think there would there would have bean that riel fear that if I open up to the manager, you know, then is that is that going to affect my place in the team?

How is he going to think exactly 100%?

But I think that but it is different.

My experiences in the clubs that that I've managed the players are more open than what one that what used to be and maybe some of that is because I think there's a general feel towards the manager that if I open up to water manager that that that's not going to affect how he sees me, that's not going to affect the team selection.

That's not effect.

How he thinks my mental attitude going into games is, and I think probably that certificate.

But but certainly in my experience is that sport at the highest level of the harsh, harsh world.

And if you're vulnerable in any in any shape or form, you will need help.

It doesn't always go well for you, doesn't it?