A senior Royals, petulant and ill judged right?

So that was a comment petal ill judged in the Times.

I believe in a Times editorial today.

Meg's it as it's been dubbed now, inevitably, Clive, where do you stand on this?

No, it isn't.

I think First of all I'd say about Meghan Markle, she's been a breath of fresh air for our monarchy.

She's been a role model inspirational.

He'll work with charities, in particular with the victims of Grenfell has been outstanding.

Ah, no.

I think the way that she has been treated by our media is a little short off.

Disgraceful on Dhe, quite frankly, in what in particular?

Well, I think I think Prince Harry himself has said himself that he thinks that there is a large degree of racism in terms of how she's been treated.

It's been quite appalling.

I mean, he's obviously pointed to what's happened in South Africa and the tour on the royal correspondents who have been reporting.

And he also said something about the fact that sometimes what's being said has been so far from the truth, and yet because it has come from those royal correspondents.

It's been repeated around the world.

Now anyone that's in the public eye in this country knows that happens far too often in our media, I think, he said.

It was real corresponds reporting.

And then that would get Miss reported.

The dancing will get, Ms reported, but they were basing it on what was said by those royal correspondents.

But let's be quite clear.

And quite frankly, I think it's up to them in the 21st century.

If they wish to step back from their royal duties, I think given what it has done to them, given the pressure and the stress.

If you've ever been in the public eye and you've been in the eye of a media storm, our multiple media storm, let's not forget Prince Harry's mother was harassed severely.

Princess Diana, by the media he had seen this before, has had a massive impact on his life and now it's happening to his wife.

I think he has every right and she has every right to step back from public life and do as they see fit, and I also think as well look, this cheap mega Marco is one off the most privileged people in this country.

And yet look what our media is doing to her and Prince Harry.

It is completely unacceptable, and I think that they have every right to make the decision that they have.

And he gets just the media that is making you do this, looking through their website today and explain there the reasoning and in some detail, they want to live a different kind of life as well.

Yes, they do.

But I think we have to take into account that this probably wouldn't happen in a speculation on my part.

But this probably wouldn't have happened if there hadn't been this such negative coverage from the British media.

I mean, this is the same British media that is meant to be the fourth estate meant to hold power on the public to account it's meant to be fair.

It's meant to be balanced, is anything but, and I think what you can see in the way that she has been treated as a member of the royal family is a little short of a disgrace.

As far as I'm concerned, I think she has every right and Prince Harry have every right to do what they've done.

As for the issue off warning majesty about this, well, I personally feel that's a that's a that's a family matter between them.

I understand that Her Majesty may be upset about that.

Ultimately, that's a family matter, and I don't think I would want to delve into that Max.

I agree with about half of what Clive said.

I think that Meghan Markle and Prince Harry deserved tremendous sympathy because it is hell being royal.

It is incredibly difficult being royal.

I don't buy the view that it's all racist.

If one remember you mentioned Diner.

I was a newspaper editor at the time that Diana was in the eye of the storm on DDE.

Awful lot of Royal also had a very bad time.

You can argue from the media without the issue of race being brought into it, but I was in Max's decision, petulant until John.

I also feel very sorry for the queen and all this.

That here is she and our nineties facing Maur of these of these family storms, and I think one of the problems that perhaps because she has lived in such a great age.

Nobody's got to grips with the issue of what is the royal family's supposed to be on the idea.

I think Prince Charles is dead right to talk about the slim down Wall family in which the state is not expected.

Yes, to pay two point 4,000,004 Prince Harry's house, in which there is a clear understanding of what is and is not expected of lesser Royals on Dhe were all arguing all the time.

I think they're the victims of this in some degree because nobody has told them explicitly just what is and is not expected on them, so they deserve sympathy.

But Prince Charles William on the Queen, deserves sympathy and all this, But I hope no, keep talking what one does hope.

It was obviously a hell of a row going on in that family.

And the worst thing that could happen is if they end up on the on speakers, they've got to keep talking.

They've gotta see a way through this on.

One hopes it will be a happy one, not only for Megan and Prince Harry, but also for the Queen on the future of the monarchy, which some just care passionately about demanding.

Would their financial They're seeking financial independence.

Not have been better before the multi £1,000,000 renovation or Frogmore cottage?

Yes, they're talking about living financially independently.

Let me just take another question here at the front.

You had your hand up with perfectly happy to see them live their own life to do ever They want their humans like we all are.

But you shouldn't.

They immediately stop taking public money as they step down instead of the thing they said today.

Move towards that.

Yeah.

So what did they say exactly?

Said they were work.

Become financially independent.

I mean, who pays for the rules?

It certainly tells the security something that comes under your aegis, Brandon.

So are you happy if they step back from the rollers CD miserable family?

Are you gonna see?

Keep paying for their security?

Well, I'm sure you won't, because I'm not gonna have to come in on the Minister, but it's inappropriate.

It's going on how we deal with security issues for any protective person, whether they are bigger, the wall, family, or otherwise protected.

Surely you can tell us whether that you'd be happy to keep funding it.

No, we allow protection for the royal family.

Lt's wise is done on a risk of sex basis.

It's done independently.

It does come within my remit.

But I think it would be, I'm afraid it just would be inappropriate is going on how we arranged in what we do for security, for protecting people.

But what I would say this is where there is an element of agreement between Clive and Maximum surly myself would be that I agree with Point Clyde point out, beginning which is, I think, that Harry Meggett and the royal family generally I do amazing work for this country, and particularly for charitable and good causes as well.

We should be very lucky.

I'm very proud to be a country.

We've got a world family like that, but also me.

Max's point is also right around the fact that this is also a matter for the world family and I I hope we end up in a position with your family, get a result that's good for them and also good for the country because one of things we have seen throughout the history of our country is the world family has evolved over the centuries and over the generations to reflect the country as it is that given time, I'm sure, will continue to see that.

But this is a matter for the whole family.

And can you see a situation where Harry and Megan are living independently but are still part of the royal family?

Can you see that?

And some would see that's a contradiction in terms.

Can you see that working?

What does this say?

We'll wait and see exactly what the world family want to do and what they where they want to go With this.

I think I would be difficult to prejudge what they might do.

But we should also be clear that there are parts of the world famous, not just funding through the public purse.

You know, your family says, funding through the family itself from their own interests on I saw you shaking, heading some frustration a little a little bit, but let me start with with the position of the Sussex is I think it depends whether their aim is still to be in the royal family or no, they said they don't want to be senior Royals, but that's Ah, somewhat different questions.

Well, they say they want to continue to collaborate with the queen on support.

You know, when he sees you, I think I think that's the slight problem that you have a model of the royal family.

And I do think a slim, down royal family is where we need to head.

I think Prince Charles was right about that.

That is now happening by necessity, not by choice.

But the question is, then what is the role of those who, if you like or in the outer cool?

They are an attractive couple.

They have brought a breath of fresh air to the royal family, interviewed Meghan Markle along with a panel of other people.

Last year I found a very, very engaging professional toe work with.

I liked her focus on subjects like girls education worldwide.

I like the fact that she has an international dynamic to what she brought to it, but that you could do a lot of that from a different platform in if you want to stay somehow connected the royal family being a semi Demi royal with a bit of time at Frogmore Cottage in a lot of it in North America is going to be very difficult to pull off.

It's going to need to be very strategic, Max Hastings said.

I think quite rightly is going to have to be done by agreement.

It can't be done by an exchange of hostile communications that we've had in the last day or so says something's gone badly wrong.

It may be salvageable, but it does need thinking through.

The reason I disagree with Clive is look, way talk about the media and poor coverage.

Yes, it must be very bruising to get coverage you don't like.

Sometimes they even happens to police just very quickly.

Max out what I was saying.

If you look, I think most coverage, including the broadcasters, is very, very positive.

In the UK, we often don't report a lot of things that people say when they don't like the Royals.

So I think that you have to calibrate it and they have to roll with that if they want to still be connected to the firm.

One short, brutal point about money that one issue that is going to face the statically if they do step down is that they're going to find a lot of people, especially in North America, who want to give the money.

But they're absolutely the worst sort of people who probably most of them they should not be taking money from on this issue.

You mean there's a commercial endorsements, that kind of thing?

Well, they're up, whether it's whether it's lending them yachts.

Whether it's it's all the people who are most eager to hang around, Royals are almost ipso facto.

The people who the Royal shouldn't hang around on.

How they overcome that problem is gonna be very difficult for the other one thing, because this idea of of growing in financial independence we've seen that before.

I'm thinking of the counter Countess of Wessex, for example, a TV production company that the PR company and in the end, the queen ended up giving them money so they wouldn't be doing that in any longer.

Can you see that working?

So I think you can see it working, and I think it's just a question of imagination, a question a willing at the end of the day for me, you know, I have a lot of sympathy for Harry and Meghan.

I think they've been given a really rough ride.

You just have to look at some of the coverage over, you know, over the overnight around their decision, which has been really vile and exact excessive to see that actually, it's been hugely unfair, and I think in part it's because Meghan doesn't conform to what people some people expect a royal should look like should act like.

And so she's been given a really tough time.

I think it's wrong, and I think it's really sad on.

So, you know, I think they're young family.

They let she just had a baby that's pretty tough in its own right on.

There aren't a huge amount of pressure they've been really honest about, You know, how unhappy they are about mental health issues that they're struggling with.

And I say, you know, they had a break and they decided we want to change things.

We want to focus on ourselves and our kid, and I think they completely right.

They say, fair play to that.

But I do think it shines a spotlight yet again on the world family on the monarchy on you know, I think that you know the monarchy, a part of our culture, our traditions, our history.

But it needs to be reformed, and it needs to be brought it back into the 21st century.

And for me, that means both constitutional form so that we're no longer a nation of subjects.

But we're a nation of citizens through to the fact that it needs to be scaled down so that they're less Royals on the fact that we have this very privileged, very wealthy family that should be financially independent but also actually well that they have accumulated three centuries that they have inherited.

They should be giving it back some of it back to the public, because in the end, it belongs to us.

Theo, Theo, Truth of the matter that everybody now looks on the monarchy as a bargain on.

Unless we get our pound of flesh from the press on in terms of how much money they bring into the country, nobody actually believes that that family should be allowed to rule the country as right we all look at it is a transactional arrangement now.

And you were wrong to do that?

No, I I think well, in a way, I think we're wrong.

But I think also the transaction is in terms of how how many stories where they give to the press.

The press turned on Megan when she stopped providing so many photo opportunities for the baby.

And very quickly they turned on her on.

I think we like to see a soap opera.

We like to be provided with entertainment on.

If we don't get the entertainment, the country only is governed by our agreement.

And we feel we have to get value from them, as as entertainment as well as money being brought into the country.