>>> TIME NOW FOR A VERY SPECIAL EDITION OF "FALLBACK."

EDITION OF "FALLBACK." WE ARE JOINED BY TWO LEGENDS.

WE ARE JOINED BY TWO LEGENDS. FIRST MUSIC ICON DEBBIE HARRY, A

FIRST MUSIC ICON DEBBIE HARRY, A ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAMER,

ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAMER, LEAD SINGER OF COURSE THE

LEAD SINGER OF COURSE THE GROUNDBREAKING BAND BLONDIE

GROUNDBREAKING BAND BLONDIE KNOWN FOR HITS LIKE "CALL ME,"

KNOWN FOR HITS LIKE "CALL ME," "HEART OF GLASS" AND "RAPT

"HEART OF GLASS" AND "RAPT YOOUR," A 1980 HIT THAT THE

YOOUR," A 1980 HIT THAT THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" NOTES WAS

"WALL STREET JOURNAL" NOTES WAS THE FIRST MAJOR HIP-HOP HIT TO

THE FIRST MAJOR HIP-HOP HIT TO NOT USE SAMPLES.

NOT USE SAMPLES. SHE HAS SOLD OVER 40 MILLION

SHE HAS SOLD OVER 40 MILLION ALBUMS WORLDWIDE.

ALBUMS WORLDWIDE. AND HER NEW MEMOIR IS "FACE IT."

AND HER NEW MEMOIR IS "FACE IT." AND TONIGHT SHE IS PAIRED WITH A

AND TONIGHT SHE IS PAIRED WITH A GIANT OF JOURNALISM MAKING HIS

GIANT OF JOURNALISM MAKING HIS FALLBACK DEBUT, CHRIS MATTHEWS,

FALLBACK DEBUT, CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST OF THE LONGEST-RUNNING SHOW

HOST OF THE LONGEST-RUNNING SHOW ON MSNBC, "HARDBALL," AUTHOR OF

ON MSNBC, "HARDBALL," AUTHOR OF SIX BEST-SELLING BOOKS, VETERAN

SIX BEST-SELLING BOOKS, VETERAN OF THE CARTER WHITE HOUSE.

OF THE CARTER WHITE HOUSE. EVERY CHIEF EXECUTIVE FROM

EVERY CHIEF EXECUTIVE FROM CANDIDATES BUSH, CLINTON, FORD-O

CANDIDATES BUSH, CLINTON, FORD-O BAMA, HAS BEEN IN THE MIDDLE OF

BAMA, HAS BEEN IN THE MIDDLE OF SOME MEMORABLE LINES OF

SOME MEMORABLE LINES OF QUESTIONING IN AMERICAN

QUESTIONING IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

POLITICS. >> IF YOU’RE GOING TO ASK A

>> IF YOU’RE GOING TO ASK A QUESTION --

QUESTION -- >> WELL, LISTEN -- IT TAKES A

>> WELL, LISTEN -- IT TAKES A FEW WORDS.

FEW WORDS. >> GET OUT OF MY FACE.

>> GET OUT OF MY FACE. >> IF YOU’RE GOING TO ASK ME A

>> IF YOU’RE GOING TO ASK ME A QUESTION, STEP BACK AND LET ME

QUESTION, STEP BACK AND LET ME ANSWER IT.

ANSWER IT. >> SENATOR --

>> SENATOR -- >> YOU KNOW, I WISH WE LIVED IN

>> YOU KNOW, I WISH WE LIVED IN THE DAY WHERE YOU COULD

THE DAY WHERE YOU COULD CHALLENGE A PERSON TO A DUEL.

CHALLENGE A PERSON TO A DUEL. >> SO GREAT TO HAVE YOU

>> SO GREAT TO HAVE YOU TOGETHER.

TOGETHER. >> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. >> I LOVE IT.

>> I LOVE IT. CHRIS, WHAT IN AMERICAN LIFE,

CHRIS, WHAT IN AMERICAN LIFE, BIG PICTURE, AND POLITICS NEEDS

BIG PICTURE, AND POLITICS NEEDS TO FALL BACK?

TO FALL BACK? >> WE WATCH OUR NETWORK ALL DAY,

>> WE WATCH OUR NETWORK ALL DAY, AND I LEARN A LOT FROM OUR

AND I LEARN A LOT FROM OUR NETWORK.

NETWORK. BUT ONE THING I LEARNED FROM

BUT ONE THING I LEARNED FROM THESE POLITICIANS, DEMOCRAT AND

THESE POLITICIANS, DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN, LEFT AND RIGHT, IS

REPUBLICAN, LEFT AND RIGHT, IS THEY ALL PLAY THE SAME GAME OF

THEY ALL PLAY THE SAME GAME OF HALF TRUTHS.

HALF TRUTHS. DURING THE FIGHT OVER

DURING THE FIGHT OVER IMPEACHMENT THEY’D SAY, WELL,

IMPEACHMENT THEY’D SAY, WELL, THEY EVENTUALLY GOT THE MONEY.

THEY EVENTUALLY GOT THE MONEY. UKRAINE GOT THE MONEY.

UKRAINE GOT THE MONEY. THAT’S THE HALF TRUTH.

THAT’S THE HALF TRUTH. THEY DID EVENTUALLY GET THE

THEY DID EVENTUALLY GET THE MONEY.

MONEY. FULL TRUTH, THEY GOT CAUGHT.

FULL TRUTH, THEY GOT CAUGHT. THE ADMINISTRATION GOT CAUGHT

THE ADMINISTRATION GOT CAUGHT AND HAD TO GIVE THEM THE MONEY.

AND HAD TO GIVE THEM THE MONEY. BOTH SIDES PLAYED THIS GAME.

BOTH SIDES PLAYED THIS GAME. THE DEMOCRATS WILL SAY THINGS

THE DEMOCRATS WILL SAY THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE’VE GOT

LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE’VE GOT INHERENT POWER TO SUBPOENA

INHERENT POWER TO SUBPOENA PEOPLE.

PEOPLE. WE CAN SEND THE SERGEANT AT ARMS

WE CAN SEND THE SERGEANT AT ARMS OUT AND GRAB ANYBODY WE WANTED.

OUT AND GRAB ANYBODY WE WANTED. NO, YOU CAN’T.

NO, YOU CAN’T. IT MAY BE WRITTEN SOMEWHERE BUT

IT MAY BE WRITTEN SOMEWHERE BUT YOU CAN’T DO SOMETHING LIKE

YOU CAN’T DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THAT. SO STOP SAYING IT.

SO STOP SAYING IT. >> WHAT’S ON YOUR MIND IF

>> WHAT’S ON YOUR MIND IF ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO FALL

ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO FALL BACK?

BACK? >> I’M NOT SURE WHAT FALL BACK

>> I’M NOT SURE WHAT FALL BACK MEANS.

MEANS. DOES THAT MEAN SURRENDER OR GIVE

DOES THAT MEAN SURRENDER OR GIVE UP OR JUST -- RECONVENE WITHIN

UP OR JUST -- RECONVENE WITHIN YOURSELF?

YOURSELF? >> I’M GLAD YOU ASKED.

>> I’M GLAD YOU ASKED. YOU KNOW WHO’S AN EXPERT ON

YOU KNOW WHO’S AN EXPERT ON THIS?

THIS? CHRIS MATTHEWS.

CHRIS MATTHEWS. >> IT MEANS STOP IT.

>> IT MEANS STOP IT. IT’S NOT WORKING.

IT’S NOT WORKING. >> OKAY.

>> OKAY. FALL BACK AND RE-EXAMINE.

FALL BACK AND RE-EXAMINE. OKAY.

OKAY. >> I’LL GIVE YOU ONE OF MINE.

>> I’LL GIVE YOU ONE OF MINE. PEOPLE OUT TO DINNER TOGETHER ON

PEOPLE OUT TO DINNER TOGETHER ON THEIR PHONES.

THEIR PHONES. >> I HATE IT.

>> I HATE IT. >> I THINK THAT NEEDS TO FALL

>> I THINK THAT NEEDS TO FALL BACK.

BACK. >> WHOLE FAMILY, FOUR PEOPLE,

>> WHOLE FAMILY, FOUR PEOPLE, ALL WITH THEIR OWN PHONES.

ALL WITH THEIR OWN PHONES. ALL TALKING --

ALL TALKING -- >> HAVE YOU EVER SEEN SUCH A

>> HAVE YOU EVER SEEN SUCH A THING?

THING? >> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY. AND THAT’S WHEN I KNOW THE

AND THAT’S WHEN I KNOW THE PARTY’S OVER, WHEN THE PHONE

PARTY’S OVER, WHEN THE PHONE COMES OUT.

COMES OUT. SAY OH, WELL, THAT’S IT.

SAY OH, WELL, THAT’S IT. >> AND IF I MAY, MY

>> AND IF I MAY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOU KNOW HOW TO

UNDERSTANDING IS YOU KNOW HOW TO PARTY.

PARTY. NOW PEOPLE ARE SAYING THINGS ARE

NOW PEOPLE ARE SAYING THINGS ARE WAVY.

WAVY. HAVE YOU HEARD THIS?

HAVE YOU HEARD THIS? >> MM.

>> MM. >> WAVY IS GOOD.

>> WAVY IS GOOD. >> THAT’S GOOD?

>> THAT’S GOOD? >> WAVY’S GOOD.

>> WAVY’S GOOD. YEAH.

YEAH. YOU KNOW WHAT SLANG WORD HAS

YOU KNOW WHAT SLANG WORD HAS REALLY SURVIVED?

REALLY SURVIVED? >> YEAH.

>> YEAH. >> COOL.

>> COOL. DIDN’T PEOPLE SAY COOL IN THE

DIDN’T PEOPLE SAY COOL IN THE ’70s?

’70s? >> YEAH.

>> YEAH. >> AND THE ’80s.

>> AND THE ’80s. WE STILL SAY COOL.

WE STILL SAY COOL. >> BUT NEAT DIDN’T MAKE IT.

>> BUT NEAT DIDN’T MAKE IT. >> NEAT DID NOT MAKE IT.

>> NEAT DID NOT MAKE IT. NO.

NO. >> DO YOU THINK NEAT WILL BE

>> DO YOU THINK NEAT WILL BE BACK?

BACK? I KEEP THINKING ABOUT COOL.

I KEEP THINKING ABOUT COOL. OBAMA WAS COOL.

OBAMA WAS COOL. SINATRA WAS COOL.

SINATRA WAS COOL. I THINK WE KNOW WHAT COOL MEANS.

I THINK WE KNOW WHAT COOL MEANS. LIKE YOU’RE UNRUFFLED.

LIKE YOU’RE UNRUFFLED. YOU GO THROUGH ANYTHING.

YOU GO THROUGH ANYTHING. YOU DON’T GET RATTLED.

YOU DON’T GET RATTLED. YOU’RE LIKE COOL IN EVERY KIND

YOU’RE LIKE COOL IN EVERY KIND OF WAY.

OF WAY. >> SO DEBBIE, THIS IS GOOD.

>> SO DEBBIE, THIS IS GOOD. DID YOU THINK OF YOURSELF AS

DID YOU THINK OF YOURSELF AS COOL WHEN YOU WERE DOING THIS

COOL WHEN YOU WERE DOING THIS PUNK STUFF, NEW RORKSCK, HIP-HOP

PUNK STUFF, NEW RORKSCK, HIP-HOP OR YOU WERE JUST DOING YOUR

OR YOU WERE JUST DOING YOUR THING, YOU DIDN’T CARE IF IT WAS

THING, YOU DIDN’T CARE IF IT WAS COOL?

COOL? >> WELL, I LIKED COOL BECAUSE I

>> WELL, I LIKED COOL BECAUSE I WANTED TO BE A BEATNIK.

WANTED TO BE A BEATNIK. >> OKAY.

>> OKAY. >> SO I SORT OF KNEW I ASPIRED

>> SO I SORT OF KNEW I ASPIRED TO COOL.

TO COOL. >> WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO

>> WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO YOUNG PEOPLE?

YOUNG PEOPLE? >> OH, GOD.

>> OH, GOD. I THINK BASICALLY, YOU KNOW,

I THINK BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, JUST BE COMMITTED TO WHAT YOU

JUST BE COMMITTED TO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

WANT TO DO. AND LIKE YOU SAY, HOLD ON TO

AND LIKE YOU SAY, HOLD ON TO YOURSELF.

YOURSELF. IT’S COMPLICATED.

IT’S COMPLICATED. BUT IF YOU HAVE YOUR CORE OF

BUT IF YOU HAVE YOUR CORE OF YOUR CREATIVITY, WHICH IS WHAT I

YOUR CREATIVITY, WHICH IS WHAT I HAVE TO RELY ON, THAT’S REALLY

HAVE TO RELY ON, THAT’S REALLY WHERE IT COUNTS.

WHERE IT COUNTS. >> YOU KNOW, WHEN JOHN HUSTON,

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN JOHN HUSTON, THE GREAT DIRECTOR, WAS OLD AND

THE GREAT DIRECTOR, WAS OLD AND HE HAD -- HE’S GOT AN OXYGEN

HE HAD -- HE’S GOT AN OXYGEN MASK ON AND HE WAS ON DICK

MASK ON AND HE WAS ON DICK CAVETT ONE NIGHT, WHICH WAS VERY

CAVETT ONE NIGHT, WHICH WAS VERY POPULAR.

POPULAR. AND CAVETT SAID TO HIM, WHAT

AND CAVETT SAID TO HIM, WHAT KEEPS YOU GOING?

KEEPS YOU GOING? AND HE SAID, INTEREST.

AND HE SAID, INTEREST. THAT WAS THE BEST LINE I’VE EVER

THAT WAS THE BEST LINE I’VE EVER HEARD.

HEARD. I’M INTERESTED.

I’M INTERESTED. I THINK INTEREST IS EVERYTHING.

I THINK INTEREST IS EVERYTHING. AND YOU CAN’T FAKE IT.

AND YOU CAN’T FAKE IT. YOU’RE EITHER INTERESTED OR NOT.

YOU’RE EITHER INTERESTED OR NOT. IN THE PERSON, INTERESTED IN THE

IN THE PERSON, INTERESTED IN THE PERSON.

PERSON. OR YOU’RE NOT.

OR YOU’RE NOT. YOU CAN’T FAKE THAT.

YOU CAN’T FAKE THAT. YOU CANNOT PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT

YOU CANNOT PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT A TOPIC.

A TOPIC. I’M GIFTED THAT I’VE ALWAYS BEEN

I’M GIFTED THAT I’VE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN POLITICS.

INTERESTED IN POLITICS. >> SOMETIMES THE PEOPLE WHO ARE

>> SOMETIMES THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DEEPLY INTERESTED IN OTHERS ARE

DEEPLY INTERESTED IN OTHERS ARE ALSO THE MOST INTERESTING TO

ALSO THE MOST INTERESTING TO LEARN FROM.

LEARN FROM. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

HERE. >> OH, THANK YOU.

>> OH, THANK YOU. >> YOU CAN TELL I’M WRAPPING IT

>> YOU CAN TELL I’M WRAPPING IT UP.

UP. >> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. >> CHRIS MATTHEWS --

>> CHRIS MATTHEWS -- >> YOU’RE A GREAT LEAD-IN AS WE

>> YOU’RE A GREAT LEAD-IN AS WE SAY IN OUR BUSINESS.

SAY IN OUR BUSINESS. LOVE YOUR LEAD-IN.

LOVE YOUR LEAD-IN. HE’S RIGHT BEFORE ME.

HE’S RIGHT BEFORE ME. >> AND HE MIGHT BE WORKING ON A

>> AND HE MIGHT BE WORKING ON A MEMOIR TOO.

MEMOIR TOO. SO HE CAN GET TIPS FROM YOU.