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ARTHEL: SO KREMLIN IS SAYING
RUSSIA IS HOPING PRESIDENT
TRUMP'S CONVERSATION WITH
VLADIMIR PUTIN WILL NOT BE MADE
PUBLIC AFTER THE WHITE HOUSE
DECLASSIFIED THE TRANSCRIPT
AFTER THE CALL OR PARTIALLY DID
SO OF THE CALL WITH UKRAINIAN
PRESIDENT FOLLOWING THE
WHISTLEBLOWER COMPLAINT ALLEGING
MR. TRUMP'S ABUSE OF POWER, THE
WALL STREET JOURNAL, HE HAS
HEADLINE EMBARRASSING LEAKS LED
TO CLAMP DOWN ON PRESIDENT
TRUMP'S RECORDS, DAN HOFFMAN,
FORMER CIA STATION CHIEF WHO
SERVED IN MOSCOW, IRAN AND
PAKISTAN AND NOW FOX NEWS
CONTRIBUTOR, ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE
YOU, DAN.
>> GREAT TO BE HERE.
ARTHEL: WHY WOULD THE KREMLIN
NOT WANT CALLS BETWEEN PRESIDENT
TRUMP AND PRESIDENT PUTIN MADE
PUBLIC?
>> SO FIRST, IF THE KREMLIN
WANTED THEM TO BE MADE PUBLIC
I'M SURE THAT THEY WOULD FIND A
WAY TO DO SO WHETHER BY LEAKING
THEM OR STATING THE RECORDS OF
THE TRANSCRIPT PUBLICLY, BUT
THEY REALLY WANT TO DO INJECT
CONSPIRACY INTO OUR PUBLIC
DISCOURSE, THEY KNOW THAT IF
THEY EXPRESS AN OPINION, IF THE
KREMLIN SAY THAT IS THE CRYPTS
SHOULDN'T BE RELEASED, THAT'S
AMMUNITION FOR THE PRESIDENT'S
OPPONENTS WHO WILL ARGUE IN
FACT, THAT THEY SHOULD BE
RELEASED AND THE REPUBLICANS AND
THE PRESIDENT WILL PUSH BACK AND
RUSSIA WILL BECOME THE
HYPERPARTISAN POLITICAL DEBATE
THAT SERVES VLADIMIR PUTIN'S
INTEREST.
ARTHEL: PRESIDENT PUTIN DOESN'T
CARE ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP,
PUTIN'S GOAL IS WORLD DOMINANCE,
RIGHT?
>> WELL, KGB OPERATIVE VLADIMIR
PUTIN, HIS PRIMARY ENEMY IS THE
UNITED STATES, AND WHAT SCARES
HIM THE MOST IS DEMOCRACY AND HE
WANTS TO TAKE EVERY OPPORTUNITY
TO DISPARAGE OUR DEMOCRATIC
PROCESS, THAT'S REALLY WHAT THIS
IS ALL ABOUT.
>> DOES THAT BRING UP ANOTHER
CONCERN OF THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL
THAT THEY HAVE SEEN ON PHONE
CALL WITH CONVERSATION WITH
PRESIDENT ZELENSKI AND PRESIDENT
TRUMP, IS THAT THE VERY THING
THAT CRITICS ARE CONCERNED
PERHAPS SOMEBODY LIKE PRESIDENT
PUTIN CAN BLACKMAIL PRESIDENT
TRUMP KNOWING THAT PERHAPS AS
ACCORDING TO SOME, YOU KNOW,
WAIT TILL WE GET RESULTS ON
THIS, ACCORDING TO SOME THAT THE
PRESIDENT ABUSED POWER?
>> YEAH, A NUMBER OF REASONS WHY
PHONE CALLS BETWEEN THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
AND FOREIGN PRESIDENTS ARE
TYPICALLY SHARED WIDELY AND ONE
OF THEM IS THAT THEY TYPICALLY
DON'T DISCUSS CLASSIFIED
INFORMATION ON THE PHONE CALL,
ANOTHER IS THAT THE PRESIDENT
NEEDS HIS OWN TEAM INTELLIGENCE
COMMUNITY, DIPLOMATS, THE
MILITARY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE
PHONE CALL AND THEN ACT ON WHAT
THE PRESIDENT IS SEEKING TO
DELIVER WITH THAT FOREIGN LEADER
AND THE THIRD REASON IS THAT
OTHERS AS WELL MAY BE LISTENING
ON THE PHONE CALL, COLLECTING
INTELLIGENCE ON WHAT TRANSPIRED,
I'M QUITE SURE FOR VLADIMIR
PUTIN IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO
TRACK EXACTLY HOW THE PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES IS
INTERACTING WITH PRESIDENT
ZELENSKI OF THE UKRAINE, THERE
WOULD BE SOME CONCERN THAT
RUSSIA WOULD HAVE KNOWN THE
DETAILS OF THAT CONVERSATION.
ARTHEL: DOES THE PRESIDENT HAVE
THE DISCRETION TO PLACE
TRANSFERS OF CALLS TO FOREIGN
LEADERS ON THE CODE WORD SUPER
SECRET SERVER?
>> I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING
CONGRESS WILL BE DIGGING INTO IN
THE NEXT COMING DAYS BECAUSE IT
WAS THE LAWYERS THAT WAS
SOMETHING THE PRESIDENT COULD
DO, I JUST KNOW FROM MY OWN
EXPERIENCE AT CIA, THERE WAS A
NEED TO KNOW AND THE DETAILS OF
THE PRESIDENT'S PHONE CALLS WITH
FOREIGN LEADERS WERE KEPT TO
MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE
REQUIRED BUT THERE WAS A GOOD
BIT OF SHARING JUST SO THAT WE
COULD ACT ON THE PRESIDENT'S
TASKING APPROPRIATELY.
ARTHEL: IS WITH SUBPOENA POWER
ON THEIR SIDE, CAN THE WHITE
HOUSE OR ADMINISTRATION REFUSE
AT THIS POINT TO SUBMIT THE
COMPLETE UNREDACTED VERSIONS OF
THAT CALL ON JULY 25TH?
>> I THINK IT'S A CHALLENGE AND
SOMEONE WHO SERVED MANY YEARS AT
THE CIA WHERE ONE OF OUR MANTRA
AND WE ARE AS TRANSPARENT AS
POSSIBLE AND WHEN YOU HAVE A
WHISTLEBLOWER COMPLAINT OUT
THERE WHICH WILL LEAD FURTHER
INVESTIGATION, IT'S AWFULLY HARD
TO KEEP DETAILS ON THAT SECRET.
ARTHEL: ANYTHING IN THE CALL
CONCERNS YOU?
>> I THINK YOUNG REIGN -- WHAT
CONSIDERATION ME THE MOST
UKRAINE IS THE LAST PLACE I
WOULD BE GOING TO FOR
INFORMATION ABOUT CORRUPTION,
JUST GIVEN THAT THE STATE OF
UKRAINE IS ONE OF THE MOST
CORRUPT PLACES ON THE PLANET AND
I WOULD BE VERY WEARY OF
TRUSTING THE VERACITY OF ANY
INFORMATION I MIGHT RECEIVE FROM
ANYONE.
ARTHEL: I'M SORRY, DAN, DO YOU
BELIEVE THAT THE NEW PRESIDENT,
PRESIDENT ZELENSKI, THAT'S WHAT
HE RAN AND WON ON THAT HE WANTS
TO GET RID OF CORRUPTION IN
THEIR SYSTEM.
>> SO HE -- PRESIDENT ZELENSKI
ON A POPULIST PLATFORM AND
MANDATE, THE PROBLEM IS THAT
HE'S GOT TO MANAGE A COUNTRY
WHICH IS OVERRUN WITH ENDEMIC
CORRUPTION AND THERE'S BEEN A
LOT OF CONCERN OF OLIGARCH IN
UKRAINE WHO OPERATES THE
TELEVISION STATION WHERE TV SIT
COME WAS RUNNING AND BY ALL
ACCOUNTS IS SEEKING TO USE THE
GOVERNMENT OF UKRAINE NOT ONLY
TO EXACT REVENGE ON ENEMIES BUT
ALSO ENRICH HIS OWN POCKETS AND
SO THE JURY IS OUT ON THE EXTENT
TO WHICH PRESIDENT ZELENSKI WILL
FULFILL CAMPAIGN PROMISE, IT'S
CERTAINLY IN THE INTEREST OF ALL
OF US THAT UKRAINE IS CORRUPTION
FREE IF THEY ARE CORRUPT THEY
ARE EASILY EXPLOITED BY RUSSIA
AND NOT LIKELY TO JOIN THE
EUROPEAN UNION OR NATO WHICH ARE
THEIR GOALS.
ARTHEL: ONLY CONCERNING WRAPPING
UP SO FAR WHAT YOU'VE SEEN ON
WHAT WAS SAID IN THE PHONE CALL,
THE SUMMARY THAT WE'VE SEEN,
YOUR ONLY CONCERN, YOU WERE MORE
CONCERNED ABOUT THE CORRUPTION
IN UKRAINE AND NOT WHAT OUR
PRESIDENT SAID TO ZELENSKI, OUR
PRESIDENT?
>> ALL OF US ARE CONCERNED ABOUT
THE WHOLE STORY AND I THINK
IT'LL BE UP TO THE CONGRESS TO
-- TO COMPLETE THE FACT-FINDING
AND FRANKLY THERE'S A LOT OF
FACTS OUT THERE THAT WE DON'T
REALLY KNOW QUITE YET SO I THINK
IT'S A GOOD THING FOR ALL OF US
TO RESERVE OUR JUDGMENT, FINAL
JUDGMENT ON -- ON HOW WE VIEW
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The Kremlin doesn't want Trump-Putin call transcripts made public

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林宜悉 2019 年 10 月 30 日 に公開

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