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STUART: DEMONSTRATION,
CONFRONTATION CONTINUES.
ASHLEY: YEAH.
STUART: DENNIS WILDER, FORMER
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
DIRECTOR FOR CHINA, JOINS US ON
THE PHONE.
DENNIS YOU ARE IN HONG KONG,
THAT CORRECT?
>> NO.
I'M IN WASHINGTON.
STUART: I DO APOLOGIZE.
I'M SORRY.
MISTAKEN, MY FAULT.
I'M SURPRISED TO SEE THIS.
IT IS MIDDLE OF THE WEEK.
IT IS AN UGLY CONFRONTATION.
WE NORMALLY HAVE THIS ON THE
WEEKENDS.
WHAT SAY YOU?
I WASN'T EXPECTING THIS?
>> WELL I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE TO
THINK ABOUT, STUART BEIJING MADE
A DECISION AT THEIR SUMMER
RETREAT, LEADERSHIP, WHAT THE
DECISION IS USE THE HONG KONG
POLICE IN MUCH MORE SERIOUS
MATTER THAN BEFORE.
THERE IS STARTING TO BE THE
LITTLE GREEN MEN PROBLEM.
IN OTHER WORDS, I THINK THEY
HAVE TAKEN A PAGE OUT OF PUTIN'S
BOOK, YOU'RE BEGINNING TO SEE
PUBLIC SECURITY PERSONNEL FROM
ACROSS THE BORDER IN HONG KONG.
SO RATHER THAN MOVING IN WITH
UNIFORMED PLA, OR THE PEOPLE'S
ARMED POLICE THAT WE SEE AT THAT
STADIUM ACROSS THE BORDER, I
THINK BEIJING IS AUGMENTING THE
HONG KONG POLICE FORCE WITH
PEOPLE FROM ACROSS THE BORDER
AND IT IS GOING TO GET ROUGHER.
STUART: NOW THE CHINESE FOREIGN
MINISTRY NOW ADMITTED.
YES, IT HAS DETAINED BRITISH
CONSULAR OFFICIAL FROM
HONG KONG, WHO WENT BY TRAIN
INTO MAINLAND CHINA, THEN
DISAPPEARED.
NOW THEY ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE
DETAINED HIM.
DOESN'T THIS REALLY RAISE THE
TENSION, RAISE THE STAKES
BETWEEN BRITAIN, WHICH HANDED
HONG KONG BACK TO CHINA 1997.
THAT RAISES ANTE
CONSIDEREDDABLY, DOESN'T IT?
>> IT DOES.
ALL BEING DONE AGAINST BRITISH
COMPANIES AND AMERICAN
COMPANIES, TO PRESSURE THEM IN
HONG KONG RIGHT NOW,
CATHAY PACIFIC PILOTS BEING TOLD
TO HAND OVER THEIR PHONES WHEN
THEY GET TO BEIJING.
PEOPLE CAN LOOK TO SEE IF THEY
HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN
ACTIVITIES.
YOU HAVE SEEN THE MANAGEMENT OF
CATHAY PACIFIC TURNED OVER
BECAUSE OF THIS WHOLE THING.
THERE IS A MULTIPRONGED APPROACH
BEIJING HAS THAT IS VERY
OBVIOUS.
PRESSURE THE COMPANIES.
PRESSURE THE TRADE UNIONS.
PRESSURE THE HONG KONG POLICE TO
DO MORE.
THIS IS, THIS IS AN ALL-OUT
CAMPAIGN NOW ACROSS THE BOARD IN
HONG KONG.
USE THE QUOTE, UNQUOTE,
PATRIOTIC CITIZENS OF HONG KONG
AGAINST THE STUDENTS.
USE TWITTER, USE FACEBOOK.
WE ARE SEEING AN ASSAULT ON
HONG KONG NOW NOT WITH POLICE,
I'M SORRY, NOT WITH TROOPS BUT
WITH ALL OF THESE OTHER, SORT OF
WAYS OF PUTTING THE HEAT ON AND
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THIS
INCREASE.
STUART: OKAY, WILL IT WORK?
YOU'VE DESCRIBED VERY WELL THE
INCREASING PRESSURE, QUIET
PRESSURE ON EVERYONE, TRYING TO
SQUASH THIS MOVEMENT QUIETLY.
WILL IT WORK?
>> I DON'T THINK SO BECAUSE
1.7 MILLION PEOPLE CAME OUT ON
SUNDAY IN SUPPORT OF THIS
MOVEMENT AND THAT IS A BIG PART
OF SIX OR SEVEN MILLION PEOPLE
OF HONG KONG.
STUART: DENNIS, HOLD ON A
SECOND.
I JUST WANT TO ALERT OUR
VIEWERS, WHAT IS ON YOUR SCREEN
RIGHT NOW IS A LARGE FORCE OF
RIOT POLICE MARCHING RAPIDLY
THROUGH WHAT WE BELIEVE IS THE A
SUBURBAN TRAIN STATION.
THEY'RE PICKING UP THE PACE.
THEY HAVE PRESS ALL OVER THEM.
THERE ARE DEMONSTRATORS
FOLLOWING THEM.
THIS SQUAD LOOKS TO ME, 30, 40,
50 RIOT POLICE.
THEY'RE IN THE SUBURBAN TRAIN
STATION.
I CAN HEAR SHOUTING BIG TIME.
WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON I CANNOT
SEE ON CAMERA AT THIS MOMENT
BUT --
ASHLEY: THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO
REMOVE PROTESTERS HAVING A
SIT-DOWN PROTEST AT THIS TRAIN
STATION, THE SAME LOCATION ONE
MONTH AGO WAS THE SCENE WHERE
PROTESTERS WERE ATTACKED BY
MASKED MEN.
45 OF THOSE PROTESTERS WERE
INJURED, ONE CRITICALLY.
THIS IS BASICALLY ACKNOWLEDGING,
THIS HAPPENED ONE MONTH AGO,
NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE ABOUT IT.
STUART: DENNIS, YOU WOULD KNOW
ABOUT THIS.
>> SURE.
STUART: BEARING IN MIND YOUR
POSITION.
HAS THERE BEEN CAPITAL FLIGHT
FROM HONG KONG?
IN OTHER WORDS, LOCAL PEOPLE
WITH SERIOUS MONEY GETTING THAT
MONEY OUT AS THE TENSION RISES?
>> OH I THINK PEOPLE ARE MAKING
THOSE CONTINGENCY PLANS.
THEY MAY NOT HAVE MOVED IT YET,
THEY MAY HAVE BEEN WORKING ON
IT.
I THINK FOREIGN COMPANIES ARE
BEGINNING TO SERIOUSLY
RECONSIDER THEIR POSITIONS IN
HONG KONG BECAUSE OF THIS KIND
OF PRESSURE, BECAUSE SOME OF
WHAT BEIJING IS ASKING THEM TO
DO IS PRETTY UNTENABLE.
FOR EXAMPLE, FIRING EMPLOYEES,
SIMPLY FOR JOINING THE
DEMONSTRATIONS.
SO I THINK BEIJING IS IN
DANGERING THEIR POSITION IN
HONG KONG RIGHT NOW, THROUGH
THIS VERY HEAVY-HANDED SET OF
TACTICS THEY'RE USING.
STUART: I DON'T SEE MUCH
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE COLD WAR
BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND
THE SOVIET UNION AND WHAT SEEMS
TO BE A DEVELOPING NEW COLD WAR
BETWEEN AMERICA AND CHINA.
AM I GOING TOO FAR?
>> I THINK IT IS A DIFFERENT
KIND OF STRUGGLE.
IT ISN'T INVOLVING MASSIVE
NUMBERS ABOUT NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
IT IS NO QUESTION, WE ARE IN A
IF YOU WILL, A COLD WAR.
WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN HONG KONG
IS THE CHINESE VALUE SYSTEM,
VERY, VERY DIFFERENT FROM OUR
VALUE SYSTEM.
AND IT IS BECOMING VERY OBVIOUS.
FRANKLY, PRETTY UGLY.
AND SO I THINK THAT BEIJING IS
REVEALING SOME OF ITS TRUE
COLORS, BEING XI XINPING
GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW.
IT IS GOING TO INCREASE TENSION,
AGGRAVATION, THE FACT THAT THE
PRESIDENT DID COME OUT ON SUNDAY
WITH A STRONG STATEMENT ABOUT
HONG KONG SHOWS THAT THIS ISSUE
IS MOVING THE AMERICAN SYSTEM A
BIT.
SO YES, I THINK, WE'RE HEADED TO
ROUGHER GROUND IN THE U.S.
RELATIONSHIP.
STUART: DENNIS, YOU KNOW WHAT
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
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Hong Kong protests will get rougher: Former CIA official

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林宜悉 2019 年 9 月 21 日 に公開

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