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  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Welcome to today's webinar hosted by the Clean Energy Solutions Center

  • and the International Energy Agency. Today we're very fortunate to have Didier Houssin

  • and Marc LaFrance joining us. Our speakers will focus on IEA's Energy Efficient Building

  • Envelope Technology Roadmap

  • And one important note I've mention before we begin our presentation is that the Clean

  • Energy Solutions Center does not endorse or recommend specific products or services. Information

  • provided in this webinar is featured in the Solutions Center’s resource library as one

  • of many best practices resources reviewed and selected by technical experts.

  • And I just want to go over some of the options for audio in today's go to webinar. So the

  • audio you have two option. You may either listen through your computer or over your

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  • echo and if you select the telephone option, a box on the right side will display the telephone

  • number and an audio PIN that you should use to dial in. And panelists you just have to

  • please mute your audio device when you're not presenting. And if anyone has a technical

  • difficulty through the webinar, you may contact or go to webinars Help Desk and that phone

  • number is at the bottom of the slide, that is 888-259-3826.

  • And we encourage all attendees to submit any questions that they might have throughout

  • the webinar. You may do that by submitting the question through the question pane and

  • that is in the go to webinar window and if does anyone have any difficulty viewing the

  • materials through the webinar portal, you will find PDF copies of the presentations

  • at http://cleanenergysolutions.org/training and you can follow along with the speakers

  • present. Also an audio recording in the presentation will be posted to the Solutions Center training

  • page within a day or two of the webinar.

  • We have a great agenda prepared for you today that is focused on the Energy Efficient Building

  • Envelope Technology Roadmap detailed and strategies and actions to transform the way building

  • has constructed by 2050. Now before our speakers begin their presentations, I'll provide a

  • short informative overview of the Clean Energy Solutions Initiative and then following the

  • presentations we will have a question after session where I will present any questions

  • from the audience through the panelist and then we'll wrap with closing in a very brief

  • survey.

  • Now this slide provides a bit of background in terms of how the Solution Center came to

  • be. Solution Center is an initiative of the Clean Energy Ministerial and then supported

  • to a partnership with UN Energy. It was launched in April of 2011 and is primarily led by Australia,

  • the United States and other CEM partners. So outcome to this unique partnership includes

  • support of developing countries, the enhancement of resources on policies relating to

  • energy access, no cost expert policy assistance and peer to peer learning and training tools

  • such as the webinar you are attending today.

  • So there are four primary goals of the Solution Center. Served as a clearinghouse of clean

  • energy policy resources. Also serve to share policy best practices, data, and analysis

  • tools specific to clean energy policy and programs and the Solutions Center deliver

  • dynamic services that enabled expert assistance, learning, and peer to peer sharing of experiences

  • and then lastly the center foster dialogue on emerging policy issues and innovation across

  • the globe. So our primary audience is energy policy makers and analysts from governments

  • and technical organizations in all countries. And then we also strive to engage for the

  • private sector, NGOs and civil society.

  • Now, one of the marking features that the Solution Center provides is its expert policy

  • assistance. This is known as it Ask an Expert and it's a valuable service operative in the

  • Solution Center at zero costs. So we have established a broad team of over 30 experts

  • from around the globe who are available to provide remote policy advice and analysis

  • to all countries. For example in the area of buildings we're very pleased to have Cesar

  • Treviño, Leader of the Mexico Green Building Council serving as our expert. So if you have

  • a need for a policy assistance on building or any other Clean Energy sector, we encourage

  • you to use this useful service.

  • Again, this assistance is provided free of charge. So to request assistance, you may

  • submit your request by registering through our Ask an Expert feature at http://cleanenergysolutions.org/expert.

  • We also invite you to spread the word about this service to those in your networks and

  • organizations. So, in summary we encourage you to explore and take advantage of the Solutions

  • Center resources and services including the expert policy assistance, subscribed to our

  • newsletter and participate in webinars like this.

  • And now I'd like to provide a brief introduction for our expert panelists today. Our first

  • speaker is Didier Houssin, the Director of Sustainable Energy Policy and Technology at

  • the International Energy Agency and then following Didier, we will hear from Marc LaFrance of

  • the International Energy Agency also known as Sustainable Policy and Technology Energy

  • Demand Unit and with those introductions, please join me in welcoming Didier to the

  • webinar.

  • >> DIDIER HOUSSIN: Good morning everyone and I'd like welcome everyone to this webinar

  • and also I'd like to thank the Clean Energy Solutions Center and the National Renewable

  • Energy Laboratory for collaborating with us today to launch our new technology roadmap

  • for energy efficient building envelop. Achieving significant energy and due to emission reduction

  • in the building sector is a very ambitious goal. This publication wants to address the

  • fundamental challenges and opportunities to transform the way it was constructs and renovates

  • building. ETP 2012 as you can see on this chart identified the low carbon energy technology

  • that can help achieve the 50 percent reduction from today while avoiding all of the expected

  • increases. The most important option in both the short and the long term is improving energy

  • efficiency. Improved energy efficiency in the annual sectors accounts for 38 percent

  • of the total emissions reduction in 2050. Today's publication is focused on how to construction

  • buildings which is one of the largest factors impacting heating and cooling loads and for

  • most of the world, heating and cooling loads are the largest end users. Our next upcoming

  • ETP 2014 publication will be released this coming spring and it will focused an increase

  • use of keen electricity so for the building sector ETP 2014 will analyze greater tool

  • switching from gas boiler to heat pumps, the two regions in particular for China and [inaudible]

  • [00:07:24]Union.

  • Let me come back to the global challenge. As you can see on this chart, has all end-use

  • sectors, buildings is the largest energy consumer accounting for 35 percent of total energy

  • used just before the industry and transport sectors. Policies try being to reduce energy

  • and fuel emission must address the growing energy needs of this sector. As you can see

  • on this chart, the breakdown of energy, the consumption in the building sector shows that

  • the share of electricity 28 percent and renewable including tradition biomass 30 percent.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Sorry Didier. Okay, there you go, it's working, yup.

  • >> DIDIER HOUSSIN: The importance of the building sector it got obvious. It represents 1/3 of

  • carbon emissions and it is strongly correlated to its used of around 50 percent of the total

  • electricity consumption in the world, much of it from the burning of coal. The building

  • sector plays a vital role in the global economy and for instance in the global economy crisis

  • and stagnation described it has been to a logic sampling to the building sector collapse

  • in many countries such as Spain and Europe. Buildings remain in service for a very long

  • time in where they constructed inefficiently that lost opportunity will cause problems

  • the decade and even centuries to come. So getting construction right the first time

  • its fair amount along with the need to upgrade the existing building stock. The demands for

  • new building will continue to grow for quite sometime with increasing population and wealth

  • at global level and especially in developing market.

  • Our recent major publication on buildings that we published earlier this year lays out

  • strategy to say 80 joules which is 25 percent less than in our business as usual case, our

  • 60 week scenario and this amount is equivalent to the combine consumption of India and Russia.

  • These publication provide 9 regional analysis including detail recommendations. It also

  • provide comprehensive technical analysis and recommendation for the food compliment of

  • technologies and end users in the building sector including a plan on how to implement

  • energy efficiency alternative at a range from on the to deployments. Integrated policies

  • such as building codes and deep energy renovation on a major focus along with the efforts needed

  • to transform niche products into mainstream and its practices. That led me now come back

  • to the next please to the -- our technology roadmap program. This program was launched

  • for -- at the request of the G8 in 2008 and to objective is to accelerate the development

  • and deployment of the major clean technology that are needed to reach the ambitious goal

  • of limiting global temperature increases to 2 degrees Celsius. Our roadmaps aim to address

  • three main question where we are today for a particular technology, how do we move forwards

  • and what are need term action to get us there. This approach is important in the sense that

  • it involves engaging experts from industry, government, academia and research to work

  • together in developing an implementable strategy to accelerate the development and deployment

  • of a particular clean technology. We have issued two previous roadmaps in the building

  • sector, one on heating and cooling equipment and one in solar heating and cooling.

  • We also have developed in the feel of clean energy policy pathways that assist policy

  • makers in the tuning more effective policies targeting for critical areas within out top

  • 25 energy efficiency recommendations. We have previously issued a pathway on building energy

  • performance certificates and this year we issued a new one on how to modernize building

  • energy coals. So today, a roadmap on building envelop is really complimented it's previous

  • work of the IEA dedicated to the building sector. So they keep on hear as if this new

  • IEA roadmap lays out the strategy to transform how buildings are constructed around the world

  • including the technical, economic and policy analysis to help policy maker focused on the

  • construction market that can also reenergized their economy. Several regional assessments

  • are provided to assist decision makers on where to focus their efforts and calls for

  • to improve tracking of progress on the adoption of high priority building envelop materials

  • and products. The roadmap also calls the policy makers to conduct self evaluation on key policies

  • related to initiating more sustainable building practices. It also lays out few recommendations

  • to each stakeholder group that each of these groups should follow to ensure the opportunity

  • it relies while at the same time avoiding construction with inefficient materials to

  • continue. Having said the global objective of this new roadmap I'd like now to turn over

  • to Marc LaFrance and with the main author of this roadmap and he tell you more about

  • the specific content and recommendation. So please Marc.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Thank you Didier. Welcome participants I appreciate your taking the

  • time to tune in today to learn more about --work on the building energy, a building

  • envelop of roadmap. So here on this chart, this basically lays out the transformation

  • for building and on the left it represents the majority of the building stock that exist

  • in the world today, that is very inefficient and then in places such as Canada, the EU

  • and US we have what we call no advanced construction with a lot of technology such as insulation

  • and low-e windows and proper air ceiling but we really want to move to right which is the

  • future for zero-energy buildings and how can we optimize performance through technology

  • such as highly setting windows, advanced façade, no day lighting, stole and thermal, that sort

  • of thing. So the entire roadmap lays out this process of how do we move forward.

  • Okay, and so this shows the potential savings from advancing building and we have some globally

  • and we have 8 regions lays out here. And look the largest savings come from EU, Canada and

  • United States, China and Russia and also with mostly for heating. So, we have the largest

  • consumption of the world right now with heating mostly in the residential sector, that represents

  • the largest opportunity for savings but actually the largest growing sector is the cooling

  • demand and a lot and many developing countries that's going assuming fast so that also have

  • to be addressed. So we have technologies and policies that address both the heating and

  • cooling savings.

  • So, now I'm going to go through a few technical detail then I won't go in too much but just

  • to give you a flavor of what the roadmap has to offer. So here is the chart that shows

  • the performance of the golden rules and the majority of buildings are there, very inefficient

  • with the existing stock that have virtually zero-insulation and then building that have

  • let's say we'll call it minimal insulation from the 60 and 70 and then we have some very

  • advance building codes in the world to show you where we can get to and so the IEA is

  • laying out recommendations for both cold and hot climates although we know that these deficients

  • have to be based at the local and regional level with local and regional data such as

  • pricing and cost materials.

  • Okay, another key element is to have air sealing and if any building is going to have a mechanical

  • equipment for conditioning either heating or cooling it should be air sealed and contrary

  • to many people believe that air sealing causes poor quality it actually completely the opposite

  • through and by properly sealing the building and controlling for fresh air ventilation

  • you can actually improve air quality not degraded and the savings are pretty dramatic so this

  • is something that needs to be pursued more actively and even with lots of accept in Europe

  • with energy performance certificate the majority of those do not require a validated air leakage

  • task which is something that needs to be pursued.

  • Okay, in this chart shows you the performance of Windows and on the left that's the majority

  • of the stock of windows that exist in the world today. Lots of single pane glass with

  • inefficient framing even double clear glaze glass is inefficient and so today in lots

  • of places with advanced building codes, people are pursuing window performance that approximately

  • 1.8 watts percent meter squared Kelvin or the technology is double pane with low-e glass

  • and a low conductive frame and then so we're recommending that that becomes the basic requirements

  • for the entire world because these technologies good for both heating and cooling and then

  • for cold climates we're recommending going to a performance that at least 1.1 U-value

  • which is represented as a triple pane with two low-e services and low conductive frame.

  • Okay, the next slide is it deals with reflective roof opportunity. And reflective roof make

  • the most sense in hot climates but they also can makes densely urban areas what we call

  • a very high urban heat island effect and so a reflective roof will reduce your air conditioning

  • load. If you have a cooler city which is to mitigate their urban heat island you'll also

  • have a low air conditioning for the entire city. You'll have lower electricity peak demand

  • and believe it or not in places like New York City mandated its policy to reduce the temperature

  • of the city to get people to come out and spend more money in their economy because

  • there'll be more comfortable in the environment and there was also people that are pursuing

  • cool services for roadways and parking lots. And then the last element of it that there's

  • been quite a lot of research that has been done to talk about how can we cool the planet

  • and by objecting the heat backup to space and the report discussed with the and one

  • place, the research has been done in Nigeria.

  • Okay, so the next big element of the road map was we conducted a technology assessment

  • and we worked with experts on two levels. We worked with technology experts that address

  • markets around the world and then we worked with regional experts that address their particular

  • situation and we try to catalog the effectiveness of what being implemented on high priority

  • areas in several regions of the world. Now we realized there's significant region variation

  • that makes this type of analysis difficult but this gives you at least a snap shot of

  • where we think things are today and while we have areas such as typical insulation and

  • low-e glass that are doing fairly well, the majority of the world needs to improve on

  • getting much better quality buildings and is like huge opportunity to improve building

  • envelop. So of course when we did an assessment there were some conflict in the IEA that best

  • we could to resolve those but this is the sort of things that we want individual policy

  • makers in countries to track themselves to improve where they're moving forward.

  • The next slide refers to lifecycle cost analysis and this is more of a theoretical example

  • but it does include real world data but it illustrates why we need to work on integrated

  • policy approach. Why need to look at a 30-year lifecycle analysis rather than just be initial

  • payback period and by doing this we can really get much greater investments into building

  • envelops. So they are the paper does the -- I have special mention on why we need to assess

  • level of insulation and types of windows data lifecycle cost.

  • Okay. And now of course the roadmap address R&D and several high priority areas that we

  • want to work on. The big thing about R&D that some people don't realized is not only will

  • improve the performance of technology but it also can significantly reduce the cost

  • of high performance product and that move was built in a greater return on investment.

  • In essence it's going to make lifecycle cost even more advantageous especially we try to

  • get very high levels, it will reduce the risk associated with investing in advance in most

  • and also in many regions of the world everybody is very coast prohibited to increase initial

  • capital costing investment, lack of financing and whenever you can reduce the cost of advance

  • technology only helps with the market uptake and deployment. A couple of examples include

  • vacuum glazing, vacuum inflated panels and [inaudible] [00:22:03] gel, for example that

  • are discussed in the roadmap.

  • Okay, we also conducted another assessment which is based on what we call the -- actually

  • there's one other point that I was going to discuss, but it’s the infrastructure and

  • technical mechanisms but this is a policy assessment where we lays out criteria that

  • distinguished between what we can serve to be a high medium and raw level of policy uptake

  • and these are related to specifically for building envelop and what we done is we conducted

  • what we see as an assessment for each region but we really calling for each region to be

  • with sales assessment to look at the criteria and they where am I on this policy and how

  • can I move from low to medium or from medium to high or you're the from the high level

  • how can even get better and we try to layout the criteria for people to that assessment

  • and this is something that we see as dynamic. Why would publishing in the roadmap we want

  • to see people doing as our annual basis or every five years how much policy that we make

  • in this particular policy over the last 5 years and where can we be in 5 or 10 from

  • today.

  • All right, so it's obviously leading to the next thing which is tracking. Today, the overall

  • majority of policy makers are not doing a sufficient job of tracking building envelops.

  • What's the market share for technology such as low-e glass or high performance insulation,

  • air sealing and we also have country that have adopted our zero-energy building policy

  • for 2020. Well, what percentage of buildings are actually meeting the DEB or the zero-energy

  • criteria today and how much more private need to take place of the next 7 years so that

  • by 2020, they're successful. So lots of the areas for improving the tracking and then

  • also in a lot of criteria such as we have things that come out what they called that

  • in the EU, we have the thing called near zero- energy criteria. Well, near zero-energy is

  • not really defined. You know is it 70 percent improvement, is it 80 percent improvement?

  • So goes with that I think we need more criteria on and then there's also things like renovation

  • rate for public building to renovate 3 percent per year but we need to have a performance

  • criteria and we would argue that that performance criteria would be better to be a much deeper

  • or a very aggressive energy efficiency retrofit -- . it would be better to do one percent

  • in a much deeper level than do 3 percent at the very low level and the roadmap let's drive

  • in deep, the why that make sense. So the other thing is we were also considering the expanding

  • our building activity and working with partners and how can we collaborate on policy assessment.

  • How can we get improved datasets and really how do we work together to affect change.

  • It's one thing about publishing the roadmap today but we wanted people to take this roadmap

  • and implement it where the problems to get implemented, how can we improve that, what

  • additional types of analysis and data of could we doing modeling that would help people implement

  • it and have buildings that are constructed in a much more efficient way.

  • So, there 's 3 key elements that we're really talking about on the top level and that is

  • in well developed economies and country, how do we get greater development of existing

  • proven technology? How do we improve market share from 40 percent to 98 percent or 100

  • percent and another big area is how do we adopt and how can we introduce well established

  • technology in developed economies to emerging economies. In some cases, it requires infrastructure

  • involves capacity building, rebuilding the performance metrics, lots of various to getting

  • the adoption and it's usually starts with investment, getting manufactures involved

  • and so that's a major area right now with especially with the large group of construction

  • and developing markets on the world and then the last we touch base of course on right

  • here is the where is the R&D required to get the better return on investment to make these

  • retrofits more cost effective, to make zero-energy buildings more cost effective.

  • And so it would be three macro strategy we can significantly improve the building of

  • the world. Okay and then I will -- I'm just putting my contact information up here. The

  • last link actually includes that actually and will bring you to the page for the roadmap.

  • It is available now. It's free. You can download it. There's also some additional materials

  • on there such as the annexes, along with the news, the web article that was published today

  • and before -- I turn you back over to Sean for question, I'd also like to acknowledged

  • two people in the room. We also have to Cecilia Tam and Cecilia she leads our entire roadmap

  • activity for the numerous, our roadmap should be IEAs put out all over the years. She also

  • heads up the Energy Demands Unit within our directorate and also John Dulac and John has

  • been working with me in the building sector. He also is the transportation expert but John

  • was instrumental and putting out the building book this year that Didier talked about and

  • he also assisted with the roadmap and getting everything where we are today. So thank you

  • so much and we look forward to your questions. Thank you Sean.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: All right thank you Didier and Marc for the presentation and we do have

  • some questions have coming from the audience. Before we get started I would just like to

  • remind any attendees that if you had any question on the presentation or anything that you'd

  • like to have address by the panelist, you can submit those questions through the question

  • pane and you go to webinar window. I'd like to start off with the question for Didier.

  • Just on, in general could you speak on some target policies for developing countries where

  • growth is likely to happen?

  • >> DIDIER HOUSSIN: I'm sorry Sean, could you repeat the question. I think we had a problem

  • with our speaker here.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Yeah, definitely, I was hoping Didier could just speak talk a little bit

  • on a target policies for developing country where growth in the sector is likely to happen

  • >> DIDIER HOUSSIN: Yes. Thanks for the question. I think as we put it out as much just said

  • I mean the one of the key focus the greater deployment of proven technology in developed

  • countries so because a lot I'm not sure a technology that again be used in developing

  • market where bulks of your constructions is the talking place so we have basically two

  • different areas where the policy is for discipline because in industrial country the key issue

  • is renovation because they have making building stock where we need to do a lot in terms of

  • renovation whereby for emerging countries where you have a lot of new construction that

  • have of the increase in population what is important to make sure that the quality of

  • construction is here and that energy efficiency is taking into account from scratch and not

  • just the objective of low cost construction is not done at the expense of -- then the

  • cost of the building in terms of operation cost and energy cost looking forward. So this

  • is really a key issue to expand also to reach out to developing countries for the quality

  • of construction. Other than Marc you want to elaborate and this --

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Yeah, okay, Didier I think you touch base on the microelement. So within

  • the building sector, they thing we're going after the building codes and developing markets

  • at the building policy but when you look back in the slide that and the roadmap when I -- we

  • talked about the governing policies. For example we have many reasons of the world that still

  • have pure subsidies in place so how can you implement energy efficiency technology when

  • somebody is applying a quarter or half of the market value of the energy so that's an

  • example of additional policy that needs to occur in developing market to change that.

  • We also have the lack of governance for handling the building sectors so for example a lot

  • of countries have the energy administer or the energy department that's responsible for

  • supply and for, you know, electricity but they don't cover the construction element

  • which is important for the envelops and then the ministry of construction, the ministry

  • of construction, is, you know, a lot of times concerns with safety, you know, they're concerned

  • with fire hazards, they're concerned with occupied concerns or worker concerns. So,

  • if we go back to the slide I know you don't have -- we don't have on the screen at the

  • moment but in the roadmap we have a chart that lays out the other policies that are

  • important and many of those are applicable to developing market as well as establishing

  • economies. So, Sean so I'm ready for the next question or we're ready for the next question.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Roughly. Thank you the next question is if you ask Department of Energy

  • or any other nations energy group doing anything to financially support the development and

  • commercialization of very high R value or very low UR key value window components in

  • whole windows.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Yeah, thanks Sean, in the annex we explained in detail on some of the

  • works that occurred for vacuum glazing's. Germany had a pretty effort for 10 million

  • Euros. There's been several efforts in the US that were competitive projects under Department

  • of Energy. There's actually some working China on vacuum glazing but we pretty much come

  • to the conclusion that not enough is happening and that more effort needs to happen and we

  • actually suggest that international collaboration on R&D for very low energy windows is kind

  • of key action item especially when we're trying to achieve zero energy buildings and cold

  • climates. It's certainly not need of a hot climate but it would be something that we

  • suggest and we also don't take a position on the technology. Some manufacturers believe

  • that back in glazing is too complicated and too expensive and they believe a more traditional

  • approach through triple or quadruple pane of glass or thin film layers can achieve the

  • same performances. So we're specifying criteria not the technology pathway but we do describe

  • that the several pathway that get there.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Thank you Marc. I have a couple of questions referring to the charts

  • and figures in your presentation so Heather we may want to allow them to or if -- Heather

  • if you could put up their presentation that might be helpful. The questions are do the

  • charts account for industrial building energy consumption. They note that several times

  • industry building involved efficiency is ignored and then another question referring to the

  • figures are the figures shown so far worldwide one? Both of these they don't specify which

  • slide but they were submitted at the beginning at the presentation.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Okay, so the first one is that generally industrial building space conditioning

  • load is not necessarily included but most industrial plants, the thermal load for space

  • conditioning is very low compared to their operation because a lot of these industrial

  • plants have lots of heat and there's a lot of significant effort on the way to harvest

  • that we keep in industrial plant to serve improve deficiency but certainly the services

  • sector which includes all of your manufacturing and all of your hot mentality and schools

  • and public building, so the enormous amount of your service sector is certainly included

  • so we have the residential sector. We call the services sector, many people call the

  • commercials sector were non residential sector. I think we definitely have the details in

  • our building technology publication but I think roughly it's something like in the orders

  • of two-thirds, the three quarters of the energy and building that associate with residential

  • and a third or quarter is services and so if you were to look at industrial it would

  • be very, very tiny but certainly if somebody has the industrial building all of the strategy

  • that we discussed in technologies, we discussed in the roadmap with certainly be applicable

  • to that other sector but they're relatively sector. The second question you had about

  • the charts so many of the charts that we present are regional based so in this case we show

  • 8 regions. We broken up the world into 8 regions so it include the entire world. In our building's

  • publication we had 9 regions which in that case didn't include the whole world but we

  • showed global numbers as well 9 separate smaller region and then of course when we say, like

  • in some cases, we show you, we're showing the typical window technology that exist in

  • the world today. We don't attempt patient to show the market share of these types of

  • windows around. Quite frankly we would love to have that data but it's very different

  • to obtain and it's almost impossible at this point in time but that something what we need

  • to work so in case in a particular region. Now what is the market share for this, the

  • market share for that? so I think when they download the roadmap, they'll get a better

  • perspective about what we mean here and of course if anybody has a follow up question

  • I'd be glad to receive those by email to get back with people. So that's about it. Thanks

  • Sean

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Great, thank you Marc. In the next question refers to specific types

  • of window. They note the slide show in window performance refers to aluminum frames but

  • makes no reference to polyamide thermal breaks which are widely end user in the world. Are

  • you including this type of window in the conductive frame category for the world baseline target?

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: So, well of course. It is very difficult to show all the categories

  • of windows. We do discuss the issue of thermal breaks. We do discuss the issue of high performing

  • aluminum framed windows. We actually discussed the example of one that was very high performance,

  • the buildings book actually provide the thermal graph of that as well which we didn't put

  • in the roadmap but I would actually slightly defer with the question that the majority

  • of the installed windows in service in the world with aluminum framing do not have thermal

  • breaks and that's a problem. They're large energy loss and so of course we can replace

  • the windows which is probably the best option or we can put on a storm panel that actually

  • protect that thermal loss of the frame by having an exterior low-e storm panel that

  • actually put in a thermal break from the frame. There's a lot of technologies to improve that

  • so I would just say that I think this issue is pretty well covered in the roadmap and

  • but we can't show every configuration in the charts obviously so.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Great. Thanks again Marc and our question now about cool roof. If they

  • have the function of reflecting access of solar games then aren't they in effect increasing

  • the heat island effect and if that’s true can we consider then that cool roof are a

  • sustainable measure for building?

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Okay, so, if the person that submitted the question want to follow

  • me a big more than that with a lot of detail but really quickly when you reflect the energy

  • from a cool roof that energy goes -- we actually have validated results that it goes to space,

  • okay, so it does not going to absorb. If it's getting absorbed in the roof membrane that

  • actually is heating the building that heating the city. Okay, so the idea is not absorbing

  • the energy to reject the energy to reflect the energy backup into space and the research

  • that was done actually assess the absorption of energy by the water vapor and by particular

  • from the air, from pollution and that's the factor how much it get reflected but it certainly

  • does reduce the urban heat island effect as well as what do you think. Now the one possibly

  • negative side effect is it can increase glare so if you have a roof there at the lower level

  • then our higher building there could be some glare problems and that can be mitigated through

  • a thing we called cool colors which it reflects the near of red rather than the just the bit

  • of the light but in any case, this has been well studied so there's lots of good in this

  • Sean but thanks Sean.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: All right, the next question is are there plans to develop channels to

  • bring existing energy saving products to emerging markets or were current manufacturers and

  • distributors of these products need to develop this distribution mechanism?

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Okay, it's a very good question and so what the roadmap is calling for is

  • cooperation among industry, academia, nonprofit, local governments, you know, the organizations

  • like the IEA, organizations like IPEEC and so how could we work collaboratively to introduce

  • the technology and so one of the things we talked about is the capacity building. You

  • know, training, education, setting up the performance metrics and doing that in collaboration

  • with the group of entities will ensure that something is not going to be completely driven

  • by industry alone that could end up, you know, being one sided. We would have an objective

  • so that we don't exaggerate the savings so that they are appropriate. So, you know, we

  • also have an effort in my assisted division which is working on in efforts to do deployment

  • and emerging economies and part of that is of course working on capacity building and

  • so I think there has been that's effort together this consolidated effort that I mentioned

  • but a lot more needs to occur for us to be effective in achieving the goal that we're

  • calling forward to reach to the [inaudible] [00:41:44] for the entire perspective of the

  • roadmap.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Okay and the next question as of the report covers building material

  • types for building envelop.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: You're saying that it covered building material types you said?

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Does it cover the type of materials for building envelop?

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Oh, yes, oh, yes. So we done extensive assessment on different building

  • product and materials. So for example, you know, different types of windows, retrofit

  • attachments to the windows, roofing materials, insulation, so, we have extensive assessments

  • that have been conducted and all of these different types of technologies are discussed

  • and you know this type of project is about between how technical do you get. We might

  • not satisfy some of the people want extreme technical details but at the same time we

  • give a lot more information to policy makers so that it's not just thing this is the right

  • thing to do, this is the right thing to do and why is it the right thing to do and where

  • it has been done before, what savings can you get from it. And we kind of tied that

  • together with the balance m you know, what did I didn't say at the end of my remarks

  • which I should mention is I also want to thank and I'm sure there must be someone on the

  • line today. I think we have over 65 reviewers that commented and provide the extensive input

  • to us and we really appreciate that. There were probably four or five people that provide

  • the extensive information and if it wasn't for that type of peer review we won't be able

  • to give such a robust explanation of all these technologies. Yeah, definitely is well covered.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Thank you marc. And the next question notes that the pricing of energy

  • in the state of the economy have direct relationship with energy consumption. Are there any idea

  • on how to integrate this phenomenon with our sure strategies or energy saving?

  • >> CECILIA TAM: In the IEA's modeling exercises we do take into consideration in our models

  • the energy price relationships. The building sector and particular though given that such

  • a large share is for the residential sector what we have seen in our ETP scenario analysis

  • as well as in our roof efficient world scenario analysis is that in general the price sensitivity

  • for energy prices in this sector is not that high unlike in the case for the industrial

  • sector where higher energy prices does drive more action for energy saving but given that

  • in those part of [inaudible] [00:44:27] countries, the share of household spending on energy

  • costs is relatively low. The price sensitivities are not that high. I think what governments

  • can do is to offset this lack of a link in terms of price sensitivities is to implement

  • tougher energy efficiency policies through implementation monitoring verification of

  • tougher energy efficiency policies as well as Marc already mentioned to remove the extraordinary

  • price effect that are created by fossil fuel subsidies. Thank you.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: And the next question I have asked is the IEA has design tools that can

  • help engineer occupy energy savings that can be incorporated into building such as design

  • phase and if so could you share where those can be found and if not you know, where there

  • such tools are available.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Yes, thanks John. Yeah, so in the roadmap we definitely touch based

  • on the need for what we call simulation tools to provide optimized performance and but we

  • didn't not go into detail about those tools. First of all, the IEA does not have that capability

  • where more of a policy organization we work on macro strategies for the world but there's

  • lots of tools that are available. A lot of the member of governments have these tools.

  • I actually know more about the US tools but that's where I used to work before I came

  • to the IEA. There's, you know, for example there's EnergyPlus and EnergyGauge and DOE-2

  • but there's many other models around the world and so if somebody will needs more to mention

  • about that. They can send me an email and I can give you a link of few places that we

  • have that but so to some extent we stay on the roadmap that the simulation of the building

  • is beyond the scope of the roadmap but we certainly acknowledge the importance of doing

  • building simulation of for when you try to rather than optimized design. Thanks Sean.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: All right thank you Marc, nest question notes up that there's a populate

  • that triple pane windows with very low U-value are the best solution but the problem is that

  • the DTLT solar factor most of the time varying in opposition with the U-value. The question

  • wouldn't it be better to talk of optimizing the yearly energy values of our window than

  • targeting the low -e value even if the solar gain suffer.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Okay, so we very clearly discussed in the roadmap this issue about

  • optimizing performance. We want to get total energy benefit more than actually we can have

  • windows that can become net energy plus and they actually contribute more energy to the

  • building than they lose there in a year through high solar heat gain paths of heating. We

  • talked -- the chart that I showed that shows the transmission of building talks about,

  • you know, optimized design and orientation, highly setting windows with dynamic solar

  • control. So if we can -- but the reason why we do talk about having a very low U-value

  • I because if we look at the consumption of the energy lose from buildings -- and from

  • windows in the world, the majority of the lose comes from cold climate and the windows

  • are very inefficient. So having a very low U-value with dynamic solar control you now

  • can get high pack of heating in the winter time and you can significantly reduce the

  • cooling impact in the summer time and we discussed that the extent in the roadmap, I'm sorry

  • that the presentation didn't quite get that but we certainly support that whole effort

  • but at the same time, we do need those fundamental technology so that it allow for this optimized

  • performance of windows which is we need more affordable low U-values and we need more affordable

  • dynamic sort of control. Thanks Sean.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: All right, and the next questions a little more broad but it's asking if there

  • are three key recommendation that you can make at the city level. If you can make three

  • key recommendations, what would they be? The person submitting this actually targets a

  • city in Southeast Asia but if -- you can't get that specific I definitely understand.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Okay, so, okay, okay. Cecilia -- Okay.

  • >> CECILIA TAM: When I guess if we are looking only at three. One the top priorities I would

  • say within IEA's work is really to take an integrated systems approach to design and

  • policy implementation and what we mean here is that not look at that individual technology.

  • There are components but really as the whole energy system and in many cases. We do not

  • see sufficient use of efficient district heating and cooling systems with optimal use of high

  • efficiency combined hidden power, technology, often. We see people focusing only on individual

  • and technologies or just one area of the building sectors of the city and we also need to enforce

  • tougher building code and make sure that these are verified in a lot of the city design that's

  • going on and then now I'm going to pass over to Marc for the last one if you want to add.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Yeah, I guess so. Yes we too touch bases on some of the macro system

  • issues and I think it's probably beyond the scope of this roadmap but John has done a

  • lot on this urban planning for cities and that sort of thing which definitely comes

  • to mind. But if I was the city planner in a southeast Asian capital and city that has

  • very high cooling lows or very hot climate, the first thing I would do is okay, is of

  • course but new construction all of the things we talked about for building codes, driving

  • forward for building codes cool roofs, for low-e windows with -- especially selective

  • low solar heat gain as well as proper insulation but then, you know, probably we a have lot

  • of existing building that are low income that can afford advance technologies but something

  • is simple as low cost cools coding that go on existing rules, just something as simple

  • as exterior bamboo shape anything that an exterior shape or window film is lot of low

  • cost technology that are perfect for, you know, low income housing and one of the things

  • that we talked about is that and we know from my experience a lot of the countries as soon

  • as the particular city of a countries wealth increases and people that can afford it go

  • out and buy air conditionings and of course there's work to get more efficient air conditioning

  • which is important but for the building envelop, we can significantly reduce the requirements

  • for cooling and in some cases when people are culturally acceptable to live in a little

  • bit hotter condition we can reduce the temperature of that building to an acceptable level just

  • with passive strategies so they'll never need the air conditioning because let's say the

  • building is 30 degree C and we can bring it down o 25 degree C, you know, the 25 C might

  • 5, they don't need any air conditioning. So, there's lots of passive technology they'll

  • make sense. Sean.

  • >> JOHN DULAC: There's final notes on urban policy it might be adventurous for city planners

  • to look at some of the initiative that happened globally in an urban level. For example the

  • Quintin Foundation has its C 40 initial which the climate acts in Megacity Group. They specifically

  • look at target areas like building and transporting cities and have focus on what mayors are doing

  • in terms of policy implementation to support those action. And that information can be

  • found online, it might be useful particularly as it focused on cities across the globe and

  • not just new developing country.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Thank you. I think we pretty add to that. It's that pretty extensively

  • Sean hopefully

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: I'll take that. All right. Thank you. And the next question is how do

  • you attract private - public partnership in promoting energy efficiency in building retrofit?

  • >> JOHN DULAC: I think, sorry just to come forward the -- always to do recently we had

  • a workshop on in that attracting private investments or public infrastructure development and one

  • of the key conclusion coming out of this workshop it certainly apply in this case is making

  • sure that you have a policy for marketplace that supports those private investors. Investor

  • wants to know that they're working in sound financial environment which means that they're

  • investing; they're going to be guaranteed overtime. So certainly the policy framework

  • is the chief on this.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Yeah, and I think one of the key elements is, is you -- one of the

  • charts in the roadmap which is also published in the building's book that described how

  • we implement building policies and the question about public private partnership is most appropriate

  • at the early stages of deployment. So, for example we're trying to do competitive R&D.

  • It's the role for the public sector to put in financing if we're talking about incentives

  • to try to get a niche product to move up[ higher in the diffusion curve or the deployment

  • curve, you know, it's an appropriate role and the whole idea there is working together.

  • Let's say you you're looking at a development country and, you know, for them to get commodity

  • based pricing from materials they need to have them manufactured locally. Okay. If you're

  • going to be importing materials from the other side of the world, it's going to be too expensive

  • to be cost effective. So industry need to build factories and plant that are regionally

  • or locally available so that they can come up with commodity based pricing. Well a manufacturer

  • is not going to make that investment unless they know there's going to be some help from

  • the government in driving forward the policies such mandatory building cost. So there need

  • to be collaboration between the industry and the government as they how can they transform

  • the market. That just the couple of examples. Thank you.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: All right, thanks again Marc. And the next question, what answers the needs

  • to placed on opaque envelop section and develop versus developing countries?

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: So that's an interesting question. I'm curious what they're been mean

  • by that. I mean the opaque envelop is important. You know, no matter where you are. Obviously

  • most of the energy watts from buildings occurs on opaque envelop because typical window wall

  • ratio is 15 percent maybe 12 to 18 percent in residential. We do have -- in service sector

  • building, in office building, very high levels of glazing that are inefficient. Although

  • something people say oh, we, you know, we want to remove all the glass, you know, most

  • studies show that something in the order of 30 to 40 percent window wall area in an office

  • building is actually optimal because you want to get the day lighting. One of the things,

  • we talked about advance the size to get the free natural light to come in and with high

  • performance glazing and the exterior shadings you can keep the heat out but getting back

  • to the question about opaque envelop, I don't see a big difference between develop and developing.

  • You can have a question about heating and cooling so the weather of course -- of that

  • question can also follow up with email to get more information what they want, so, I

  • don't think this one is a big driver but I'm sure to listen okay. Thanks.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Definitely, and before we go on to the next question. I do just want

  • to remind the audience if we don't happen to address your question today, I will be

  • submitting those questions to the panelist so that they can respond by email. Also in

  • regard to one comment they do just want to the panelist want to knows that the annexes

  • in the report are now live so they are downloadable now. And the next question we have. You might

  • be able to touch on this briefly but they're wondering if there are any specific studies

  • for envelops of supermarket buildings in particular.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: I'm not aware of any for supermarkets. Yeah, usually, you have a very

  • small amount of glaze area but most of the sub mark data that I'm aware of from building

  • is dealing with display cases, refrigeration loops, allows us so I'm not -- one of the

  • things that I would say the service sector is to deal with is the would be the sky lights

  • but it won't be particular just to a grocery stores, the supermarkets, it would be applicable

  • to retail and how do you get more natural day lighting coming in through skylight and

  • one of the big problem of course is that people putting those sky light and they don't always

  • adjust what they call the lighting plan is the how they manage the artificial lights

  • but we touch based on that a little bit on the roadmap but not extensively.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Great. Thanks again Marc. Next question is this data is improving the

  • thermo and hydro thermo performance of buildings is the paramount important? And they wonder

  • are there any efforts in place to review paradigm shift with the integration of active technology

  • such as feeding and cooling equipment with the building envelop?

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: So it does seemed to be a two part question. One of the things with

  • the webinar is we don't have that interaction as clarifying question but the first part

  • of the question about hydrothermal analysis is we certainly touch based about the criticality

  • of managing moisture and buildings so whatever you assemble a building you have to be sure

  • not to cause problems with internal layers that will have the condensation need to avoid

  • thermal short that have condensation so we definitely recommend that high performance

  • buildings with high levels of insulation be properly designed for moisture concerns. Now

  • as far as the integration with heating and cooling certainly there's lots and lots of

  • interaction so for example, if -- it's somebody makes the building envelop much more efficient

  • but the keep a very large air conditioner in place then you'll have a short cycle of

  • your air condition equipment and you won't take care of your latent load or you medley

  • in the air and you can cause them problem. So there's lot of interactions there. I think

  • they're might be getting to technical and again I'll be glad to discuss with a more

  • detail if someone would send me an email but I think that's probably good enough for now

  • without having that interaction with the person asking the question. Thanks Sean.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Yeah, and thank you Marc. And I'll just point out to the audience that

  • your email address is on display in the slide right now on the screen so if anyone had any

  • follow up or you need to clarify something, you could contact Marc there. And the next

  • question, if you have any examples of countries that have existing energy subsidies and has

  • been able to achieve improved energy efficiency? And if not, would you advice the energy subsidy

  • removal should be a critical policy step ahead of achieving improved energy efficiencies?

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Actually, I don't have the extent of admission is. Some of my colleague

  • in the energy efficiency unit might have more that we could follow up with them on but there

  • is one example that we just highlighted which is in Saudi Arabia that had pretty high due

  • subsidies in place and at a public university, I believe it's an Old Woman's College. They

  • installed the largest solar thermal system and to do that, they had to taken into account

  • what the market value of the avoided dealer fuel was that would normally use for a hot

  • water heating and so they were able to do that a justification 'cause that was a public

  • building so the government was able to say we would rather invest in solar that will

  • reduce the use of diesel fuel or fuel oil and we can sell that thing fuel oil on the

  • global market at market value and they could see the benefit. Now that was a pretty good

  • example of solar thermal but that's all I have at this point but, you know, it is a

  • very good question and it's, you know, I'm sure my colleagues are more

  • >> DIDIER HOUSSIN: The general message -- as I explained it before that the general message

  • of IEA that certainly the first thing to do is phase out the subsidies because if you

  • don't have energy price reflecting to cost you certainly be incentivized all the players

  • on the market to investing energy efficiency and this is another consequences in terms

  • of energy security, in terms of the economies of these countries, in terms of the pseudo-emissions

  • et cetera from many countries. So the gentle message which is valid, it doesn't mean that

  • some of this countries are not at the same time trying to implement policies and particular

  • in the public sector to boost the energy efficiency renewable et cetera but certainly the objective

  • of phasing out a subsidies particular to custom fuel and having energy prices that reflect

  • that costs is one of best tools to boost the energy efficiency policies on the private

  • sector.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: All right thank you Didier and Marc. And next question, it's from the

  • attendee that will be starting a project in 2014, I'm collecting building market data

  • in the EU and they ask what you would suggest regarding data collection that you mentioned

  • in your presentation on slide 18?

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Okay, well, if somebody is asking a question about doing this project,

  • the first thing I want to say is this, I want to interact with them and work with them 'cause

  • that's exactly the counter partnership that we want to pursue but with obviously you know

  • the simple things on a building level it's, you know, okay, how effective of the building

  • codes, what is the performance of the building codes and then on a technology level, okay,

  • you know, what's the current penetration of things like double pane low-e glass, triply

  • pane low-e glass, exterior shading, you know, different types of air sealing validation.

  • All of the things that we talked about and the first thing is just looking up the assessment

  • that we provide is those items in the assessment, you know, do we have performance metrics in

  • place for window film and for attachment then all of the things listed but we definitely

  • would like to work with them to see what they have in mind. We also have a very extensive

  • stats data. I mean the vision here with people that working extensively so maybe the discussion

  • is more on lines of generic stats with buildings along with the expertise in construction.

  • >> CECILIA TAM: I just want to add that the IEA has energy efficiency indicators template

  • which helps guide countries on what is the most personate energy and the energy use indicator

  • for the energy use sector and we would be happy to provide this link with the template

  • that are in that link, what country should start collecting in setting up their energy

  • efficiency indicators program. Thank you.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Thank you. And I move on to the last questions for this question and

  • answer session. It is a several part question so let me just read it through and I can clarify

  • any part if you need me to. And the question is, in the redrawing of the energy and climate

  • map study that you referred to, energy of building would roughly half of their contributions

  • coming from appliances and lighting and half from heating and cooling. The heating and

  • cooling only referred to heating and cooling devices or is the building envelop included

  • here and also what is the importance of the envelop compared to the 2D devices and what

  • does it make sense to explicitly mention the building envelop in such overarching documents?

  • >> JOHN DULAC: Well I guess as the first comment, the redrawing the climate map was the publication

  • by our World Energy Outlook group here at IEA so I can't give specific details on their

  • analysis but we certainly can forward this questions to them however within the roadmap

  • in our building folk we do address that and I would say one of the key points to be said

  • here is that when we're looking at heating and cooling or lighting for that matter, there

  • are really two components to think about. The first is looking underlying demands so

  • if you have access to light you don't need much lighting. If are buildings or providing

  • cooling that means there's a lot of cooling demand and hot climates or conversely and

  • heated for heating and colder climates and we look at the first with regards to intensity

  • so much heat do you need and then we look at it from an efficiency perspective so for

  • the heating that you do need, how efficient is your equipment. So within the savings there

  • is of course two pieces at play. The first is, how can we reduce demands so in other

  • words, the intensity and second, how can we meet those needs through the most efficient

  • equipment and Marc can certainly talk more about what are now this show laying for the

  • division of efficiency relative to intensity and how displays into the envelop savings.

  • >> MARC LAFRANCE: Thanks John, so it's a great question because right from the premise one

  • of the concerns we have about building envelop is that if you really look at it the building

  • materials don't consume energy right because of the building envelop and that's the energy

  • efficient qualities of the materials that dictate the requirement for what type of equipment

  • you have and of course the -- when we start looking at the cost effectiveness, we have

  • to trade off the dividends between more efficient equipment versus more efficient building envelop

  • and whichever you're investing you actually are diminishing the return of investment for

  • the other one so we talk about an integrated and optimized approach of optimizing building

  • envelop and the mechanical equipment but we also talked about things that the mechanical

  • equipment. I mean the building envelop is going to be in place for many, many years

  • and it won't beyond the mechanical equipment. So if you don't get that right so we are pairing

  • the building envelop but that doesn't mean that we fully support excessive amount of

  • insulation that's so high that it cost a lot of money and so we still talk about an integrated

  • approach. And so, a different challenge, but certainly by following all those things in

  • the roadmap is ideal visibility should get better that's why we're doing this and John

  • made a great point about the lighting. So actually in this particular roadmap we did

  • not directly assess the day lighting savings opportunity. That is actually shown up in

  • our lighting savings under our building technology book but we know for example to advance the

  • size we actually reduce the lighting demand. In the same way so people talks about the

  • lighting for example. If we reduce the lighting demand by 50, 60, percent and that's what

  • some of the levels that showing in the office space, now your coast effectives put in improve

  • lighting device is actually just been diminished because you've done it by the window so is

  • it better to do by advance day lighting or is it better to do by the mechanical to the

  • artificial lighting and those are some of the integration issues that need to be addressed

  • but certainly the very big question and we're doing a very good job of assessing the best

  • as we can but it's always an area form improvement so thank you so much.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Yeah, and thank you so each of the panelist for addressing all of those

  • question and for the great discussion that we just have. Before we do move on to the

  • brief survey for the audience well, first I'd like to remind the audience if we didn't

  • address your question we will be submitting them to the panelist doing now and now I'd

  • like just to give the panelist an opportunity to make any closing remark before we wrap

  • up this webinar.

  • >> DIDIER HOUSSIN: I just like to thank all the participant for their writing of questions.

  • I think we've covered the number of interesting issues so thanks a lot for your active participation

  • and also thank you and the states to have organized this webinar. Thanks a lot.

  • >> SEAN ESTERLY: Great, thank you. And now we just look back to audience to take a quick

  • minute to answer a very brief survey on the webinar that you just see today. So we have

  • three short for you. Heather, if you could go ahead and display that first question.

  • And you can respond to the questions in the go to webinar window and the first question

  • is, is the webinar content provides me with useful information and insight? And the next

  • question, the webinar's presenters were effective? And the final question. Overall the webinar

  • met my expectations. All right thank you very much participating that survey and on behalf

  • of the Clean Energy Solutions Center I just like to extend another thank you to our expert

  • panelist today. We had a great presentation, also a great question and answer session and

  • we'd also have a terrific audience and we'd very much appreciate your time. I do invite

  • our attendees to check the Solutions Center website over the next few days. If you would

  • like to view the slide and listen to our recording to our today's presentation as well as any

  • previously held webinars and just where you could find information upcoming webinars and

  • other training events. We would also invite you to inform your colleagues and those in

  • your network about Solutions Centers Resources and Services including the no cost policy

  • support. So I hope everyone has a great rest day and we hope to see you again at future

  • Clean Energy Solutions Center events and this concludes the webinar.

>> SEAN ESTERLY: Welcome to today's webinar hosted by the Clean Energy Solutions Center

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IEAのエネルギー効率の高いビルエンベロープ技術ロードマップ (IEA's Energy Efficient Building Envelope Technology Roadmap)

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    richardwang に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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