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  • \f0\fs36 \cf0 \cb2 BOB SCHIEFFER: Good evening from the campus of Lynn University here in

  • Boca Raton, Florida. This is the fourth and last debate of the 2012 campaign, brought

  • to you by the Commission on Presidential Debates. This one's on foreign policy. I'm Bob

  • Schieffer of CBS News. The questions are mine, and I have not shared them with the candidates

  • or their aides. The audience has taken a vow of silence -

  • no applause, no reaction of any kind except right now when we welcome President Barack

  • Obama and Governor Mitt Romney. (Sustained cheers, applause.) Gentlemen, your campaigns

  • have agreed to certain rules and they are simple. They have asked me to divide the evening

  • into segments. I'll pose a question at the beginning of each segment. You will each

  • have two minutes to respond, and then we will have a general discussion until we move to

  • the next segment. Tonight's debate, as both of your know,

  • comes on the 50th anniversary of the night that President Kennedy told the world that

  • the Soviet Union had installed nuclear missiles in Cuba - perhaps the closest we've

  • ever come to nuclear war. And it is a sobering reminder that every president faces at some

  • point an unexpected threat to our national security from abroad. So let's begin.

  • The first segment is the challenge of a changing Middle East and the new face of terrorism.

  • I'm going to put this into two segments, so you'll have two topic questions within

  • this one segment on that subject. The first question, and it concerns Libya, the controversy

  • over what happened there continues. Four Americans are dead, including an American ambassador.

  • Questions remain. What happened? What caused it? Was it spontaneous?

  • Was it an intelligence failure? Was it a policy failure? Was there an attempt to mislead people

  • about what really happened? Governor Romney, you said this was an example

  • of an American policy in the Middle East that is unraveling before our very eyes. I'd

  • like to hear each of you give your thoughts on that.

  • Governor Romney, you won the toss. You go first.

  • MITT ROMNEY: Thank you, Bob, and thank you for agreeing to moderate this debate this

  • evening. Thank you to Lynn University for welcoming us here, and Mr. President, it's

  • good to be with you again. We were together at a humorous event a little earlier, and

  • it's nice to maybe be funny this time not on purpose. We'll see what happens. (Laughter.)

  • This is obviously an area of great concern to the entire world and to America in particular,

  • which is to see a - a complete change in the - the - the structure and the -

  • the environment in the Middle East. With the Arab Spring came a great deal of hope that

  • there would be a change towards more moderation and opportunity for greater participation

  • on the part of women and - and public life and in economic life in the Middle East. But

  • instead we've seen in nation after nation a number of disturbing events. Of course,

  • we see in Syria 30,000 civilians having been killed by the military there. We see in -

  • in - in Libya an attack apparently by - well, I think we know now by terrorists of

  • some kind against - against our people there, four people dead. Our hearts and minds

  • go to them. Mali has been taken over, the northern part of Mali, by al-Qaida-type individuals.

  • We have in - in Egypt a Muslim Brotherhood president.

  • And so what we're seeing is a - a - a pretty dramatic reversal in the kind of

  • hopes we had for that region. Of course, the greatest threat of all is Iran, four years

  • closer to a nuclear weapon. And - and we're going to have to recognize that we have to

  • do as the president has done. I congratulate him on - on taking out Osama bin Laden

  • and going after the leadership in al-Qaida. But we can't kill our way out of this mess.

  • We're - we're going to have to put in place a very comprehensive and robust strategy

  • to help the - the world of Islam and - and other parts of the world reject this radical

  • violent extremism which is - it's really not on the run. It's certainly not hiding.

  • This is a group that is now involved in 10 or 12 countries, and it presents an enormous

  • threat to our friends, to the world, to America long term, and we must have a comprehensive

  • strategy to help reject this kind of extremism. MR. SCHIEFFER: Mr. President.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, my first job as commander in chief, Bob, is to keep the American people

  • safe, and that's what we've done over the last four years. We ended the war in Iraq,

  • refocused our attention on those who actually killed us on 9/11. And as a consequence, al-Qaida's

  • core leadership has been decimated. In addition, we're now able to transition

  • out of Afghanistan in a responsible way, making sure that Afghans take responsibility for

  • their own security, and that allows us also to rebuild alliances and make friends around

  • the world to combat future threats. Now, with respect to Libya, as I indicated in the last

  • debate, when we received that phone call, I immediately made sure that, number one,

  • we did everything we could to secure those Americans who were still in harm's way;

  • number two, that we would investigate exactly what happened; and number three, most importantly,

  • that we would go after those who killed Americans, and we would bring them to justice, and that's

  • exactly what we're going to do. But I think it's important to step back

  • and think about what happened in Libya. Now, keep in mind that I and Americans took leadership

  • in organizing an international coalition that made sure that we were able to - without

  • putting troops on the ground, at the cost of less than what we spent in two weeks in

  • Iraq - liberate a country that had been under the yoke of dictatorship for 40 years,

  • got rid of a despot who had killed Americans. And as a consequence, despite this tragedy,

  • you had tens of thousands of Libyans after the events in Benghazi marching and saying,

  • America's our friend. We stand with them. Now that represents the opportunity we have

  • to take advantage of. And you know, Governor Romney, I'm glad that you agree that we

  • have been successful in going after al-Qaida, but I have to tell you that, you know, your

  • strategy previously has been one that has been all over the map and is not designed

  • to keep Americans safe or to build on the opportunities that exist in the Middle East.

  • MR. ROMNEY: Well, my strategy's pretty straightforward, which is to go after the

  • bad guys, to make sure we do our very best to interrupt them, to - to kill them, to

  • take them out of the picture. But my strategy is broader than - than that. That's

  • - that's important, of course, but the key that we're going to have to pursue

  • is a - is a pathway to - to get the Muslim world to be able to reject extremism

  • on its own. We don't want another Iraq. We don't want another Afghanistan. That's

  • not the right course for us. The right course for us is to make sure that we go after the

  • - the people who are leaders of these various anti-American groups and these - these

  • jihadists, but also help the Muslim world. And how we do that? A group of Arab scholars

  • came together, organized by the U.N., to look at how we can help the - the world reject

  • these - these terrorists. And the answer they came up was this.

  • One, more economic development. We should key our foreign aid, our direct foreign investment

  • and that of our friends - we should coordinate it to make sure that we - we push back

  • and give them more economic development. Number two, better education.

  • Number three, gender equality. Number four, the rule of law. We have to help

  • these nations create civil societies. But what's been happening over the last

  • couple years as we watched this tumult in the Middle East, this rising tide of chaos

  • occur, you see al-Qaida rushing in, you see other jihadist groups rushing in.

  • And - and they're throughout many nations of the Middle East.

  • It's wonderful that Libya seems to be making some progress, despite this terrible tragedy,

  • but next door, of course, we have Egypt. Libya's 6 million population, Egypt 80 million population.

  • We want - we want to make sure that we're seeing progress throughout the Middle East.

  • With Mali now having North Mali taken over by al-Qaida, with Syria having Assad continuing

  • to - or to kill - to murder his own people, this is a region in tumult. And of

  • course Iran on the path to a nuclear weapon. We've got real gaps in the region.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: We'll get to that, but let's give the president a chance.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor Romney, I'm glad that you recognize that al-Qaida's a threat

  • because a few months ago when you were asked, what's the biggest geopolitical threat

  • facing America, you said Russia - not al-Qaida, you said Russia. And the 1980s are now calling

  • to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War's been over for

  • 20 years. But, Governor, when it comes to our foreign

  • policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s, just like the social

  • policies of the 1950s and the economic policies of the 1920s. You say that you're not interested

  • in duplicating what happened in Iraq, but just a few weeks ago you said you think we

  • should have more troops in Iraq right now. And the - the challenge we have - I

  • know you haven't been in a position to actually execute foreign policy, but every

  • time you've offered an opinion, you've been wrong. You said we should have gone into

  • Iraq despite the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction. You said that we should

  • still have troops in Iraq to this day. You indicated that we shouldn't be passing

  • nuclear treaties with Russia, despite the fact that 71 senators, Democrats and Republicans,

  • voted for it. You've said that first we should not have

  • a timeline in Afghanistan then you said we should. Now you say maybe or it depends, which

  • means not only were you wrong but you were also confusing and sending mixed messages

  • both to our troops and our allies. So what - what we need to do with respect

  • to the Middle East is strong, steady leadership, not wrong and reckless leadership that is

  • all over the map. And unfortunately, that's the kind of opinions that you've offered

  • throughout this campaign, and it is not a recipe for American strength or keeping America

  • safe over the long term. MR. SCHIEFFER: I'm going to add a couple

  • of minutes here to give you a chance to respond. MR. ROMNEY: Well, of course I don't concur

  • with what the president said about my own record and the things that I've said. They

  • don't happen to be accurate. But - but I can say this: that we're talking about

  • the Middle East and how to help the Middle East reject the kind of terrorism we're

  • seeing and the rising tide of tumult and - and confusion. And - and attacking me is

  • not an agenda. Attacking me is not talking about how we're going to deal with the

  • challenges that exist in the Middle East and take advantage of the opportunity there and

  • stem the tide of this violence. But I'll respond to a couple of the things you mentioned.

  • First of all, Russia, I indicated, is a geopolitical foe, not -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Number one - MR. ROMNEY: Excuse me. It's a geopolitical

  • foe. And I said in the same - in the same paragraph, I said, and Iran is the greatest

  • national security threat we face. Russia does continue to battle us in the U.N. time and

  • time again. I have clear eyes on this. I'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when

  • it comes to Russia or Mr. Putin, and I'm certainly not going to say to him, I'll

  • give you more flexibility after the election. After the election he'll get more backbone.

  • Number two, with regards to Iraq, you and I agreed, I believe, that there should have

  • been a status of forces agreement. Did you - PRESIDENT OBAMA: That's not true.

  • MR. ROMNEY: Oh, you didn't - you didn't want a status of forces agreement?

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: No, but what I - what I would not have done is left 10,000 troops

  • in Iraq that would tie us down. That certainly would not help us in the Middle East.

  • MR. ROMNEY: I'm sorry, you actually - there was a -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Here - here is - here is -

  • MR. ROMNEY: There was an effort on the part of the president to have a status of forces

  • agreement. And I concurred in that and said we should have some number of troops that

  • stayed on. That was something I concurred with.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor - MR. ROMNEY: That was your posture. That was

  • my posture as well. I thought it should have been 5,000 troops.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor - MR. ROMNEY: I thought it should have been

  • more troops. But you - (inaudible). PRESIDENT OBAMA: This is just a few weeks

  • ago. MR. ROMNEY: The answer was, we got no troop

  • (through ?) whatsoever. PRESIDENT OBAMA: This is just a few weeks

  • ago that you indicated that we should still have troops in Iraq.

  • MR. ROMNEY: No, I didn't. I'm sorry, that's -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: You made a major speech. MR. ROMNEY: I indicated - I indicated that

  • you failed to put in place a status of forces agreement at the end of the conflict that

  • - MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor, here's - here's one thing - here's one thing

  • - here's one thing I've learned as commander in chief.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Let him have - (inaudible). PRESIDENT OBAMA: You've got to be clear,

  • both to our allies and our enemies, about where you stand and what you mean. Now, you

  • just gave a speech a few weeks ago in which you said we should still have troops in Iraq.

  • That is not a recipe for making sure that we are taking advantage of the opportunities

  • and meeting the challenges of the Middle East. Now, it is absolutely true that we cannot

  • just beat these challenges militarily, and so what I've done throughout my presidency

  • and will continue to do, is, number one, make sure that these countries are supporting our

  • counterterrorism efforts; number two, make sure that they are standing by our interests

  • in Israel's security, because it is a true friend and our greatest ally in the region.

  • Number three, we do have to make sure that we're protecting religious minorities and

  • women because these countries can't develop unless all the population - not just half

  • of it - is developing. Number four, we do have to develop their economic - their

  • economic capabilities. But number five, the other thing that we have to do is recognize

  • that we can't continue to do nation building in these regions. Part of American leadership

  • is making sure that we're doing nation building here at home. That will help us maintain

  • the kind of American leadership that we need. MR. SCHIEFFER: Let me interject the second

  • topic question in this segment about the Middle East and so on, and that is, you both mentioned

  • - alluded to this, and that is Syria. The war in Syria has now spilled over into Lebanon.

  • We have, what, more than a hundred people that were killed there in a bomb. There were

  • demonstrations there, eight people dead. Mr. President, it's been more than a year

  • since you saw - you told Assad he had to go. Since then 30,000 Syrians have died. We've

  • had 300,000 refugees. The war goes on. He's still there. Should we reassess our policy

  • and see if we can find a better way to influence events there, or is that even possible? And

  • it's you - you go first, sir. PRESIDENT OBAMA: What we've done is organize

  • the international community, saying Assad has to go. We've mobilized sanctions against

  • that government. We have made sure that they are isolated. We have provided humanitarian

  • assistance, and we are helping the opposition organize, and we're particularly interested

  • in making sure that we're mobilizing the moderate forces inside of Syria. But ultimately,

  • Syrians are going to have to determine their own future. And so everything we're doing,

  • we're doing in consultation with our partners in the region, including Israel, which obviously

  • has a huge interest in seeing what happens in Syria, coordinating with Turkey and other

  • countries in the region that have a great interest in this.

  • Now, this - what we're seeing taking place in Syria is heartbreaking, and that's

  • why we are going to do everything we can to make sure that we are helping the opposition.

  • But we also have to recognize that, you know, for us to get more entangled militarily in

  • Syria is a serious step. And we have to do so making absolutely certain that we know

  • who we are helping, that we're not putting arms in the hands of folks who eventually

  • could turn them against us or our allies in the region.

  • And I am confident that Assad's days are numbered. But what we can't do is to simply

  • suggest that, as Governor Romney at times has suggested, that giving heavy weapons,

  • for example, to the Syrian opposition is a simple proposition that would lead us to be

  • safer over the long term. MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor.

  • MR. ROMNEY: Well, let's step back and talk about what's happening in Syria and how

  • important it is. First of all, 30,000 people being killed by their government is a humanitarian

  • disaster. Secondly, Syria's an opportunity for us

  • because Syria plays an important role in the Middle East, particularly right now. Syria

  • is Iran's only ally in the Arab world. It's their route to the sea. It's the

  • route for them to arm Hezbollah in Lebanon, which threatens, of course, our ally Israel.

  • And so seeing Syria remove Assad is a very high priority for us. Number two, seeing a

  • - a replacement government being responsible people is critical for us. And finally, we

  • don't want to have military involvement there. We don't want to get drawn into

  • a military conflict. And so the right course for us is working

  • through our partners and with our own resources to identify responsible parties within Syria,

  • organize them, bring them together in a - in a form of - of - if not government,

  • a form of - of council that can take the lead in Syria, and then make sure they have

  • the arms necessary to defend themselves. We do need to make sure that they don't have

  • arms that get into the - the wrong hands. Those arms could be used to hurt us down the

  • road. We need to make sure as well that we coordinate this effort with our allies and

  • particularly with - with - with Israel. But the Saudis and the Qatari and - and

  • - and the Turks are all very concerned about this. They're willing to work with

  • us. We need to have a very effective leadership effort in Syria, making sure that the -

  • the - the insurgents there are armed and that the insurgents that become armed are

  • people who will be the responsible parties. Recognize I believe that Assad must go. I

  • believe he will go. But I believe we want to make sure that we have the relationships

  • of friendship with the people that take his place such that in the years to come we see

  • Syria as a - as a friend and Syria as a responsible party in the Middle East. This

  • - this is a critical opportunity for America. And what I'm afraid of is that we've

  • watched over the past year or so first the president saying, well, we'll let the U.N.

  • deal with it, and Assad - excuse me, Kofi Annan came in and - and said, we're

  • going to try - have a cease-fire. That didn't work. Then it looked to the

  • Russians and said, see if you can do something. we should. We should be playing the leadership

  • role there, not on the ground with military -

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: All right. MR. ROMNEY: - by the leadership role.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: We are - we playing the leadership role. We organized the "Friends

  • of Syria. We are mobilizing humanitarian support and support for the opposition. And

  • we are making sure that that those we help are those who will be friends of ours in the

  • long term and friends of our allies in the region over the long term.

  • But you know, going back to Libya, because this is an example of - of how we make

  • choices, you know, when we went into Libya and we were able to immediately stop the massacre

  • there because of the unique circumstances and the coalition that we had helped to organize,

  • we also had to make sure that Moammar Gadhafi didn't stay there. And to the governor's

  • credit, you supported us going into Libya and the coalition that we organized. But when

  • it came time to making sure that Gadhafi did not stay in power, that he was captured, Governor,

  • your suggestion was that this was mission creep, that this was mission muddle.

  • Imagine if we had pulled out at that point. That - Moammar Gadhafi had more American

  • blood on his hands than any individual other than Osama bin Laden. And so we were going

  • to make sure that we finished the job. That's part of the reason why the Libyans stand with

  • us. But we did so in a careful, thoughtful way, making certain that we knew who we were

  • dealing with, that those forces of moderation on the ground were ones that we could work

  • with. And we have to take the same kind of steady, thoughtful leadership when it comes

  • to Syria. That's exactly what we're doing.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor, can I just ask you, would you go beyond what the administration

  • would do? Like, for example, would you put in no-fly zones over Syria?

  • MR. ROMNEY: I don't - I don't want to have our military involved in - in Syria.

  • I don't think there's a necessity to put our military in Syria at - at this

  • stage. I don't anticipate that in the future.

  • As I indicated, our objectives are to replace Assad and to have in place a new government

  • which is friendly to us - a responsible government, if possible. And I want to make

  • sure the get armed and they have the arms necessary to defend themselves but also to

  • remove - to remove Assad. But I do not want to see a military involvement on the

  • part of - of our - of our troops. And this isn't - this isn't going

  • to be necessary. We have - with our partners in the region, we have sufficient resources

  • to support those groups. But look, this has been going on for a year. This is a time -

  • this should have been a time for American leadership. We should have taken a leading

  • role - not militarily, but a leading role organizationally, governmentally, to bring

  • together the parties there to find responsible parties.

  • As you hear from intelligence sources even today, the insurgents are highly disparate.

  • They haven't come together. They haven't formed a unity group, a council of some kind.

  • That needs to happen. America can help that happen. And we need to make sure they have

  • the arms they need to carry out the very important role, which is getting rid of Assad.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Could we get a quick response, Mr. President, because I want to ask -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, I'll - I'll - I'll be - I'll be very quick.

  • What you just heard Governor Romney said is he doesn't have different ideas, and that's

  • because we're doing exactly what we should be doing to try to promote a moderate, Syrian

  • leadership and a - an effective transition so that we get Assad out. That's the kind

  • of leadership we've shown. That's the kind of leadership we'll continue to show.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: May I ask you, you know, during the Egyptian turmoil, there came a point when

  • you said it was time for President Mubarak to go.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Right. MR. SCHIEFFER: Some in your administration

  • thought perhaps we should have waited a while on that. Do you have any regrets about that?

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: No, I don't because I think that America has to stand with democracy.

  • The notion that we would have tanks run over those young people who were in Tahrir Square,

  • that is not the kind of American leadership that John F. Kennedy talked about 50 years

  • ago. But what I've also said is that now that

  • you have a democratically elected government in Egypt, that they have to make sure that

  • they take responsibility for protecting religious minorities - and we have put significant

  • pressure on them to make sure they're doing that - to recognize the rights of women,

  • which is critical throughout the region. These countries can't develop if young women

  • are not given the kind of education that they need.

  • They have to abide by their treaty with Israel. That is a red line for us, because not only

  • is Israel's security at stake, but our security is at stake if that unravels.

  • They have to make sure that they're cooperating with us when it comes to counterterrorism.

  • And we will help them with respect to developing their own economy, because ultimately, what's

  • going to make the Egyptian revolution successful for the people of Egypt but also for the world

  • is if those young people who gathered there are seeing opportunities. Their aspirations

  • are similar to young people's here. They want jobs. They want to be able to make sure

  • their kids are going to a good school. They want to make sure that they have a roof over

  • their heads and that they have a - the prospects of a better life in the future.

  • And so one of the things that we've been doing is - is, for example, organizing

  • entrepreneurship conferences with these Egyptians to - to give them a sense of how they can

  • start rebuilding their economy in a way that's noncorrupt, that's transparent.

  • But what is also important for us to understand is - is that for America to be successful

  • in this region, there are some things that we're going to have to do here at home

  • as well. You know, one of the challenges over the last decade is we've done experiments

  • in nation building in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. And we've neglected, for example,

  • developing our own economy, our own energy sectors, our own education system. And it's

  • very hard for us to project leadership around the world when we're not doing what we

  • need to do here. MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor Romney, I want to

  • hear your response to that, but I would just ask you, would you have stuck with Mubarak?

  • MR. ROMNEY: No, I believe, as the president indicated and said at the time, that I supported

  • his - his action there. I felt that - I wish we'd have had a better vision of

  • the future. I wish that, looking back at the beginning of the president's term and even

  • further back than that, that we'd have recognized that there was a growing energy

  • and passion for freedom in that part of the world and that we would have worked more aggressively

  • with our - our friend and with other friends in the region to have them make the transition

  • towards a more representative form of government such that it didn't explode in the way

  • it did. But once it exploded, I felt the same as the president did, which is these -

  • these freedom voices in the - the streets of Egypt where the people who were speaking

  • of our principles and the - the - President Mubarak had done things which were unimaginable,

  • and the idea of him crushing his people was not something that we could possibly support.

  • Let me - let me step back and talk about what I think our mission has to be in the

  • Middle East, and even more broadly, because our purpose is to make sure the world is more

  • - is peaceful. We want a peaceful planet. We want people to be able to enjoy their lives

  • and know they're going to have a bright and prosperous future and not be at war. That's

  • our purpose. And the mantle of - of leadership for promoting the principles of peace has

  • fallen to America. We didn't ask for it, but it's an honor that we have it.

  • But for us to be able to promote those principles of peace requires us to be strong, and that

  • begins with a strong economy here at home, and unfortunately, the economy is not stronger.

  • When the - when the - the president of Iraq - excuse me - of Iran, Ahmadinejad,

  • says that our debt makes us not a great country, that's a frightening thing. The former

  • chief of - chief of the Joints Chief of Staff said that - Admiral Mullen - said

  • that our debt is the biggest national security threat we face. This - we have weakened

  • our economy. We need a strong economy. We need to have

  • as well a strong military. Our military is second to none in the world. We're blessed

  • with terrific soldiers and extraordinary technology and intelligence. But the idea of a trillion

  • dollars in cuts through sequestration and budget cuts to the military would change that.

  • We need to have strong allies. Our association and - and connection with our allies is

  • essential to America's strength. We're the - the great nation that has allies,

  • 42 allies and friends around the world. And finally, we have to stand by our principles.

  • And if we're strong in each of those things, American influence will grow. But unfortunately,

  • in nowhere in the world is America's influence greater today than it was four years ago.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: All right. MR. ROMNEY: And that's because we've

  • become weaker on each of those four dimensions. MR. SCHIEFFER: All right - perfect. You're

  • going to get a chance to respond to that because that's a perfect segue into our next segment,

  • and that is what is America's role in the world. And that is the question. What do each

  • of you see as our role in the world? And I believe, Governor Romney, it's your

  • turn to go first. MR. ROMNEY: Well, I - I absolutely believe

  • that America has a - a responsibility and the privilege of helping defend freedom and

  • promote the principles that - that make the world more peaceful. And those principles

  • include human rights, human dignity, free enterprise, freedom of expression, elections,

  • because when there are elections, people tend to vote for peace. They don't vote for

  • war. So we want to - to promote those principles around the world. We recognize that there

  • are places of conflict in the world. We want to end those conflicts to the extent humanly

  • possible. But in order to be able to fulfill our role in the world, America must be strong.

  • America must lead. And for that to happen, we have to strengthen

  • our economy here at home. You can't have 23 million people struggling to get a job.

  • You - you can't have an economy that over the last three years keeps slowing down

  • its growth rate. You can't have kids coming out of college, half of whom can't find

  • a job today, or a job that's commensurate with their college degree. We have to get

  • our economy going. And our military - we've got to strengthen

  • our military long- term. We don't know what the world is going to throw at us down

  • the road. We - we make decisions today in a military that - that will confront

  • challenges we can't imagine. In the 2000 debates there was no mention of

  • terrorism, for instance. And a year later, 9/11 happened. So we have to make decisions

  • based upon uncertainty. And that means a strong military. I will not cut our military budget.

  • We have to also stand by our allies. I think the tension that existed between Israel and

  • the United States was very unfortunate. I think also that pulling our missile defense

  • program out of Poland in the way we was also unfortunate in terms of, if you will, disrupting

  • the relationship in some ways that existed between us.

  • And then of course, with regards to standing for our principles, when - when the students

  • took to the streets in Tehran and the people there protested, the Green Revolution occurred.

  • For the president to be silent I thought was an enormous mistake. We have to stand for

  • our principles, stand for our allies, stand for a strong military and stand for a stronger

  • economy. MR. SCHIEFFER: Mr. President.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: America remains the one indispensable nation. And the world needs a strong America.

  • And it is stronger now then when I came into office. Because we ended the war in Iraq,

  • we were able to refocus our attention on not only the terrorist threat but also beginning

  • a transition process in Afghanistan. It also allowed us to refocus on alliances and relationships

  • that had been neglected for a decade. And, Governor Romney, our alliances have never

  • been stronger. In Asia, in Europe, in Africa, with Israel where we have unprecedented military

  • and intelligence cooperation, including dealing with the Iranian threat. But what we also

  • have been able to do is position ourselves so we can start rebuilding America.

  • And that's what my plan does: Making sure that we're bringing manufacturing back

  • to our shores so that we're creating jobs here, as we've done with the auto industry,

  • not rewarding companies that are shipping jobs overseas; making sure that we've got

  • the best education system in the world, including retraining our workers for the jobs of tomorrow;

  • doing everything we can to control our energy. We've cut our oil imports to the lowest

  • level in two decades because we've developed oil and natural gas, but we also have to develop

  • clean energy technologies that will allow us to cut our exports in half by 2020. That's

  • the kind of leadership that we need to show. And we've got to make sure that we reduce

  • our deficit. Unfortunately, Governor Romney's plan doesn't do it. We've got to do

  • it in a responsible way, by cutting out spending we don't need but also asking the wealthiest

  • to pay a little bit more. That way we can invest in the research and technology that's

  • always kept us at the cutting edge. Now Governor Romney has taken a different

  • approach throughout this campaign. You know, both at home and abroad, he has proposed wrong

  • and reckless policies. He's praised George Bush as good economic steward and Dick Cheney

  • as somebody who shows great wisdom and judgment. And taking us back to those kinds of strategies

  • that got us into this mess are not the way that we are going to maintain leadership in

  • the 21st century. MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor Romney, wrong and

  • reckless policies? MR. ROMNEY: (Chuckles.) I've got a policy

  • for the future and agenda for the future. And when it comes to our economy here at home,

  • I know what it takes to create 12 million new jobs and rising take- home pay. And what

  • we've seen over the last four years is something I don't want to see over the

  • next four years. The - the president said by now we'd be at 5.4 percent unemployment.

  • We're 9 million jobs short of that. I will get America working again and see rising take-

  • home pay again. And I'll do it with five simple steps.

  • Number one, were going to have North American energy independence. We're going to do

  • it by taking full advantage of oil, coal, gas, nuclear and our renewables.

  • Number two, we're going to increase our trade. Trade grows about 12 percent per year.

  • It doubles about every - every five or - or so years. We can do better than that,

  • particularly in Latin America. The opportunities for us in Latin America we have just not taken

  • advantage of fully. As a matter of fact, Latin America's economy

  • is almost as big as the economy of China. We're all focused on China. Latin America

  • is a huge opportunity for us: time zone, language opportunities.

  • Number three, we're going to have to have training programs that work for our workers

  • and schools that finally put the parents and the teachers and the kids first, and the teachers

  • union's going to have to go behind. And then we're going to have to get to

  • a balanced budget. We can't expect entrepreneurs and businesses large and small to take their

  • life savings or their companies' money and invest in America if they think we're

  • headed to the road to Greece. And that's where we're going right now unless we finally

  • get off this spending and borrowing binge. And I'll get us on track to a balanced

  • budget. And finally, number five, we've got to

  • champion small business. Small business is where - where jobs come from. Two-thirds

  • of our jobs come from small businesses. New business formation is down to the lowest level

  • in 30 years under this administration. I want to bring it back and get back good jobs and

  • rising take-home pay. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, let's talk about

  • what we need to compete. First of all, Governor Romney talks about small businesses, but Governor,

  • when you were in Massachusetts, small businesses' development ranked about 48, I think, out

  • of 50 states, in Massachusetts, because the policies that you're promoting actually

  • don't help small businesses. And the way you define small businesses include folks

  • at the very top. They include you and me. That's not the kind of small business promotion

  • we need. But - but let's take an example that

  • we know is going to make a difference 21st century, and that's our education policy.

  • We didn't have a lot of chance to talk about this in the last debate. You know, under

  • my leadership, what we've done is reformed education, working with governors, 46 states.

  • We've seen progress and gains in schools that were having a terrible time, and they're

  • starting to finally make progress. And what I now want to do is to hire more teachers,

  • especially in math and science, because we know that we've fallen behind when it comes

  • to math and science. And those teachers can make a difference.

  • Now, Governor Romney, when you were asked by teachers whether or not this would help

  • the economy grow, you said, this isn't going to help the economy grow. When you were

  • asked about reduced class sizes, you said class sizes don't make a difference. But

  • I tell you, if you talk to teachers, they will tell you it does make a difference.

  • And if we've got math teachers who are able to provide the kind of support that they

  • need for our kids, that's what's going to determine whether or not the new businesses

  • are created here. Companies are going to locate here depending on whether we've got the

  • most highly skilled workforce. And the kinds of budget proposals that you've put forward

  • - when we don't ask either you or me to pay a dime more in terms of reducing the

  • deficit, but instead we slash support for education, that's undermining our long-term

  • competitiveness. That is not good for America's position in the world. And the world notices.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Let me get back to foreign policy.

  • MR. ROMNEY: Well - MR. SCHIEFFER: Can I just get back -

  • MR. ROMNEY: Well, I need to speak a moment if you'll let me, Bob -

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: OK. MR. ROMNEY: - just about education, because

  • I'm - I'm so proud of the state that I had the chance to be governor of. We have,

  • every two years, tests that look at how well our kids are doing. Fourth graders and eighth

  • graders are tested in English and math. While I was governor, I was proud that our fourth

  • graders came out number one of all 50 states in English and then also in math, and our

  • eighth graders number one in English and also in math - first time one state had been

  • number one in all four measures. How did we do that?

  • Well, Republicans and Democrats came together on a bipartisan basis to put in place education

  • that focused on having great teachers in the classroom. And that was -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Ten years earlier - MR. ROMNEY: That was - that was what allowed

  • us to become the number one state in the nation. And this is - and we were -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: But that was 10 years before you took office.

  • MR. ROMNEY: And we - absolutely. MR. SCHIEFFER: Gentlemen -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: And then you cut education spending when you came into office.

  • MR. ROMNEY: The first - the first - and we kept our schools number one in the

  • nation. They're still number one today. And the principles that we've put in place

  • - we also gave kids not just a graduation exam that - that determined whether they

  • were up to the skills needed to - to be able to compete, but also, if they graduated

  • in the top quarter of their class, they got a four-year tuition-free ride at any Massachusetts

  • public institution of higher learning. PRESIDENT OBAMA: That happened - that happened

  • before you came into office. MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor -

  • MR. ROMNEY: That was actually mine, actually, Mr. President. You got that fact wrong.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Let me - I want to try to shift it, because we have heard some of this

  • in the other debates. Governor, you say you want a bigger military. You want a bigger

  • Navy. You don't want to cut defense spending. What I want to ask you, we're talking about

  • financial problems in this country. Where are you going to get the money?

  • MR. ROMNEY: Well, let's - let's come back and talk about the military, but all

  • the way - all the way through. First of all, I'm going through, from the very beginning,

  • we're going to cut about 5 percent of the discretionary budget excluding military. That's

  • number one. All right? MR. SCHIEFFER: But can you do this without

  • driving us deeper into debt? MR. ROMNEY: The good news is, I'll be happy

  • to have you take a look. Come on our website, you'll look at how we get to a balanced

  • budget within eight to 10 years. We do it by getting - by reducing spending in a

  • whole series of programs. By the way, number one I get rid of is "Obamacare." There

  • are a number of things that sound good but, frankly, we just can't afford them. And

  • that one doesn't sound good, and it's not affordable, so I get rid of that one from

  • day one; to the extent humanly possible, we get that out. We take program after program

  • that we don't absolutely have to have and we get rid of them.

  • Number two, we take some programs that we are going to keep, like Medicaid, which is

  • a program for the poor. We're - take that health care program for the poor, and

  • we give it to the states to run because states run these programs more efficiently. As a

  • governor, I thought, please, give me this program.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Can he do that? PRESIDENT OBAMA: (Inaudible.)

  • MR. ROMNEY: I can run this more efficiently than the federal government. And states, by

  • the way, are proving it. States like Arizona, Rhode Island have taken these Medicaid dollars,

  • have shown they can run these programs more cost effectively.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Bob - MR. ROMNEY: So I want to do those two things

  • that gets us - it gets us to a balanced budget with eight in - eight to 10 years.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Bob - MR. ROMNEY: But the military -

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Let - MR. ROMNEY: Let's go back to the military,

  • though. MR. SCHIEFFER: Well, that's what I'm

  • trying to find out about. MR. ROMNEY: Let's talk about the military.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: You should have answered the first question.

  • Look, Governor Romney's called for $5 trillion of tax cuts that he says he's going to

  • pay for by closing deductions. Now, the math doesn't work but he continues

  • to claim that he's going to do it. He then wants to spend another $2 trillion on military

  • spending that our military's not asking for.

  • Now, keep in mind that our military spending has gone up every single year that I've

  • been in office. We spend more on our military than the next 10 countries combined - China,

  • Russia, France, the United - United Kingdom, you name it, next 10. And what I did was work

  • with our Joint Chiefs of Staff to think about what are we going to need in the future to

  • make sure that we are safe? And that's the budget that we've put forward.

  • But what you can't do is spend $2 trillion in additional military spending that the military

  • is not asking for, $5 trillion on tax cuts, you say that you're going to pay for it

  • by closing loopholes and deductions without naming what those loopholes and deductions

  • are, and then somehow you're also going to deal with the deficit that we've already

  • got. The math simply doesn't work. But when it comes to our military, what we

  • have to think about is not, you know, just budgets, we got to think about capabilities.

  • We need to be thinking about cybersecurity. We need to be thinking about space. That's

  • exactly what our budget does, but it's driven by strategy. It's not driven by

  • politics. It's not driven by members of Congress and what they would like to see.

  • It's driven by what are we going to need to keep the American people safe?

  • That's exactly what our budget does. And it also then allows us to reduce our deficit,

  • which is a significant national security concern because we've got to make sure that our

  • economy is strong at home so that we can project military power overseas.

  • MR. ROMNEY: Bob, I'm pleased that I've balanced budgets. I was in the world of business

  • for 25 years. If you didn't balance your budget, you

  • went out of business. I went to the Olympics that was out of balance, and we got it on

  • balance and made a success there. I had the chance to be governor of a state. Four years

  • in a row, Democrats and Republicans came together to balance the budget. We cut taxes 19 times,

  • balanced our budget. The president hasn't balanced a budget yet. I expect to have the

  • opportunity to do so myself. MR. SCHIEFFER: All right.

  • MR. ROMNEY: I - I'm going to be able to balance the budget. Let's talk about

  • military spending, and that's this. Our Navy -

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: About 30 seconds. MR. ROMNEY: Our Navy is older - excuse

  • me - our Navy is smaller now than any time since 1917. The Navy said they needed 313

  • ships to carry out their mission. We're now down to 285. We're headed down to the

  • - to the low 200s if we go through with sequestration. That's unacceptable to me.

  • I want to make sure that we have the ships that are required by our Navy.

  • Our Air Force is older and smaller than any time since it was founded in 1947. We've

  • changed for the first time since FDR. We - since FDR we had the - we've always

  • had the strategy of saying we could fight in two conflicts at once. Now we're changing

  • to one conflict. Look, this, in my view, is the highest responsibility

  • of the president of the United States, which is to maintain the safety of the American

  • people. And I will not cut our military budget by a trillion dollars, which is the combination

  • of the budget cuts that the president has as well as the sequestration cuts. That, in

  • my view, is - is - is making our future less certain and less secure. I won't do

  • it. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Bob, I just need to comment

  • on this. First of all, the sequester is not something that I proposed. It's something

  • that Congress has proposed. It will not happen. The budget that we're talking about is

  • not reducing our military spending. It's maintaining it.

  • But I think Governor Romney maybe hasn't spent enough time looking at how our military

  • works. You - you mentioned the Navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than

  • we did in 1916. Well, Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets - (laughter)

  • - because the nature of our military's changed. We have these things called aircraft

  • carriers where planes land on them. We have these ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines.

  • And so the question is not a game of Battleship where we're counting ships. It's -

  • it's what are our capabilities. And so when I sit down with the secretary

  • of the Navy and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, we determine how are we going to be best able

  • to meet all of our defense needs in a way that also keeps faith with our troops, that

  • also makes sure that our veterans have the kind of support that they need when they come

  • home. And that is not reflected in the kind of budget that you're putting forward,

  • because it just don't work. MR. SCHIEFFER: All right.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: And you know, we've visited the website quite a bit. And it still doesn't

  • work. MR. SCHIEFFER: A lot to cover. I'd like

  • - (murmurs) - I'd like to move to the next segment: red lines, Israel and Iran.

  • Would either of you - and you'll have two minutes, and President Obama, you have

  • the first go at this one. Would either of you be willing to declare that an attack on

  • Israel is an attack on the United States, which of course is the same promise that we

  • give to our close allies like Japan? And if you made such a declaration, would not that

  • deter Iran? It's certainly deterred the Soviet Union for a long, long time when we

  • made that - when we made that promise to our allies.

  • Mr. President. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, first of all, Israel

  • is a true friend. It is our greatest ally in the region. And if Israel is attacked,

  • America will stand with Israel. I've made that clear throughout my presidency. And -

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: So you're saying we've already made that declaration?

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: I will stand with Israel if they are attacked. And this is the reason

  • why, working with Israel, we have created the strongest military and intelligence cooperation

  • between our two countries in history. In fact, this week we'll be carrying out the largest

  • military exercise with Israel in history, this very week.

  • But to the issue of Iran, as long as I'm president of the United States, Iran will

  • not get a nuclear weapon. I've made that clear when I came into office.

  • We then organized the strongest coalition and the strongest sanctions against Iran in

  • history, and it is crippling their economy. Their currency has dropped 80 percent. Their

  • oil production has plunged to the lowest level since they were fighting a war with Iraq 20

  • years ago. So their economy is in a shambles. And the reason we did this is because a nuclear

  • Iran is a threat to our national security and it's threat to Israel's national

  • security. We cannot afford to have a nuclear arms race in the most volatile region of the

  • world. Iran's a state sponsor of terrorism, and for them to be able to provide nuclear

  • technology to nonstate actors - that's unacceptable. And they have said that they

  • want to see Israel wiped off the map. So the work that we've done with respect

  • to sanctions now offers Iran a choice. They can take the diplomatic route and end their

  • nuclear program or they will have to face a united world and a United States president,

  • me, who said we're not going to take any options off the table.

  • The disagreement I have with Governor Romney is that during the course of this campaign

  • he's often talked as if we should take premature military action. I think that would

  • be a mistake because when I've sent young men and women into harm's way, I always

  • understand that that is the last rest, not the first resort.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Two minutes. MR. ROMNEY: Well, first of all, I - I want

  • to underscore the - the same point the president made, which is that if I'm president

  • of the United States, when I'm president of the United States, we will stand with Israel.

  • And - and if Israel is attacked, we have their back, not just diplomatically, not just

  • culturally, but militarily. That's number one.

  • Number two, with regards to - to Iran and the threat of Iran, there's no question

  • but that a nuclear Iran, a nuclear-capable Iran, is unacceptable to America.

  • It presents a threat not only to our friends, but ultimately a threat to us to have Iran

  • have nuclear material, nuclear weapons that could be used against us or used to be threatening

  • to us. It's also essential for us to understand

  • what our mission is in Iran, and that is to dissuade Iran from having a nuclear weapon

  • through peaceful and diplomatic means. And crippling sanctions are something I'd called

  • for five years ago when I was in Israel speaking at the Herzliya Conference. I laid out seven

  • steps. Crippling sanctions were number one. And they

  • do work. You're seeing it right now in the economy. It's absolutely the right

  • thing to do to have crippling sanctions. I'd have put them in place earlier, but it's

  • good that we have them. Number two, something I would add today is

  • I would tighten those sanctions. I would say that ships that carry Iranian oil can't

  • come into our ports. I imagine the EU would agree with us as well. Not only ships couldn't,

  • I'd say companies that are moving their oil can't, people who are trading in their

  • oil can't. I would tighten those sanctions further.

  • Secondly, I'd take on diplomatic isolation efforts. I'd make sure that Ahmadinejad

  • is indicted under the Genocide Convention. His words amount to genocide incitation. I

  • would indict him for it. I would also make sure that their diplomats are treated like

  • the pariah they are around the world, the same way we treated the apartheid diplomats

  • of South Africa. We need to increase pressure time and time

  • again on Iran because anything other than a - a - a solution to this which says

  • - which stops this nuclear folly of theirs is unacceptable to America. And of course,

  • a military action is the last resort. It is something one would only, only consider if

  • all of the other avenues had been - had been tried to their full extent.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Let me ask both of you, there - as you know, there are reports that Iran

  • and the United States, as part of an international group, have agreed in principle to talks about

  • Iran's nuclear program. What is the deal if there are such talks? What is the deal

  • that you would accept? Mr. President. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, first of all, those

  • were reports in the newspaper. They are not true. But our goal is to get Iran to recognize

  • it needs to give up its nuclear program and abide by the U.N. resolutions that have been

  • in place, because they have the opportunity to re-enter the community of nations, and

  • we would welcome that. There are - there are people in Iran who have the same aspirations

  • as people all around the world, for a better life. And we hope that their leadership takes

  • the right decision. But the deal we'll accept is, they end their nuclear program.

  • It's very straightforward. And you know, I'm glad that Governor Romney

  • agrees with the steps that we're taking. You know, there have been times, Governor,

  • frankly, during the course of this campaign, where it sounded like you thought that you'd

  • do the some things we did, but you'd say them louder and somehow that that would make

  • a difference, and it turns out that the work involved in setting up these crippling sanctions

  • is painstaking; it's meticulous. We started from the day we got into office.

  • And the reason it was so important - and this is a testament to how we've restored

  • American credibility and strength around the world - is we had to make sure that all

  • the countries participated, even countries like Russia and China, because if it's

  • just us that are imposing sanctions, we've had sanctions in place for a long time. It's

  • because we got everybody to agree that Iran is seeing so much pressure. And we've got

  • to maintain that pressure. There is a deal to be had, and that is that

  • they abide by the rules that have already been established; they convince the international

  • community they are not pursuing a nuclear program; there are inspections that are very

  • intrusive. But over time, what they can do is regain credibility. In the meantime, though,

  • we're not going to let up the pressure until we have clear evidence that that takes

  • place. And one last thing. I'm - just to make

  • this point: The clock is ticking. We're not going to allow Iran to perpetually

  • engage in negotiations that lead nowhere. And I've been very clear to them, you know,

  • because of the intelligence coordination that we do with a range of countries, including

  • Israel, we have a sense of when they would get breakout capacity, which means that we

  • would not be able to intervene in time to stop their nuclear program, and that clock

  • is ticking. MR. SCHIEFFER: All right.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: And we're going to make sure that if they do not meet the demands

  • of the international community, then we are going to take all options necessary to make

  • sure they don't have a nuclear weapon. MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor.

  • MR. ROMNEY: I think from the very beginning, one of the challenges we've had with Iran

  • is that they have looked at this administration and - and felt that the administration

  • was not as strong as it needed to be. I think they saw weakness where they had expected

  • to find American strength. And I say that because from the very beginning,

  • the president, in his campaign some four years ago, said he'd meet with all the world's

  • worst actors in his first year. He'd - he'd sit down with Chavez and - and

  • Kim Jong-Il, with Castro and with - with President Ahmadinejad of - of Iran. And

  • - and I think they looked and thought, well, that's an unusual honor to receive

  • from the president of the United States. And then the president began what I've

  • called an apology tour of going to - to various nations in the Middle East and -

  • and criticizing America. I think they looked at that and saw weakness. Then when there

  • were dissidents in the streets of Tehran, the Green Revolution, holding signs saying,

  • is America with us, the president was silent. I think they noticed that as well. And I think

  • that when the president said he was going to create daylight between ourselves and Israel

  • that - that they noticed that as well. All of these things suggested, I think, to

  • the Iranian mullahs that, hey, you know, we can keep on pushing along here; we can keep

  • talks going on, but we're just going to keep on spinning centrifuges. Now there are

  • some 10,000 centrifuges spinning uranium, preparing to - to create a - a -

  • a - - a nuclear threat to the United States and to the world.

  • That's unacceptable for us, and - and - and it's essential for a president

  • to show strength from the very beginning to make it very clear what is acceptable and

  • not acceptable. And an Iranian nuclear program is not acceptable to us. They must not develop

  • nuclear capability. And the way to make sure they understand that is by having from the

  • very beginning the tightest sanctions possible. They need to be tightened. Our diplomatic

  • isolation needs to be tougher. We need to indict Ahmadinejad. We need to put the pressure

  • on them as hard as we possibly can, because if we do that, we won't have to take the

  • military action. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Bob, let me just respond.

  • Nothing Governor Romney just said is true, starting with this notion of me apologizing.

  • This has been probably the biggest whopper that's been told during the course of this

  • campaign, and every fact-checker and every reporter's looked at it. The governor has

  • said this is not true. And when it comes to tightening sanctions,

  • look, as I said before, we've put in the toughest, most crippling sanctions ever. And

  • the fact is while we were coordinating an international coalition to make sure these

  • sanctions were effective, you were still invested in a Chinese state oil company that was doing

  • business with the Iranian oil sector. So I'll let the American people decide, judge who's

  • going to be more effective and more credible when it comes to imposing crippling sanctions.

  • And with respect to our attitude about the Iranian revolution, I was very clear about

  • the murderous activities that had taken place, and that was contrary to international law

  • and everything that civilized people stand for. And - and so the strength that we

  • have shown in Iran is shown by the fact that we've been able to mobilize the world.

  • When I came into office, the world was divided. Iran was resurgent. Iran is at its weakest

  • point economically, strategically, militarily than since - than in many years.

  • MR. ROMNEY: We're four years closer to a nuclear Iran. We're four years closer

  • to a nuclear Iran. And - and we should not have wasted these four years to the extent

  • they've - they continue to be able to spin these centrifuges and get that much closer.

  • That's number one. Number two, Mr. President, the reason I call

  • it an apology tour is because you went to the Middle East and you flew to - to Egypt

  • and to Saudi Arabia and to - to Turkey and Iraq. And - and by way, you skipped

  • Israel, our closest friend in the region, but you went to the other nations. And by

  • the way, they noticed that you skipped Israel. And then in those nations and on Arabic TV

  • you said that America had been dismissive and derisive. You said that on occasion America

  • had dictated to other nations. Mr. President, America has not dictated to other nations.

  • We have freed other nations from dictators. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Bob, let me - let me respond.

  • You know, if we're going to talk about trips that we've taken, you know, when

  • I was a candidate for office, first trip I took was to visit our troops.

  • And when I went to Israel as a candidate, I didn't take donors, I didn't attend

  • fundraisers, I went to Yad Vashem, the - the Holocaust museum there, to remind myself

  • the - the nature of evil and why our bond with Israel will be unbreakable.

  • And then I went down to the border towns of Sderot, which had experienced missiles raining

  • down from Hamas. And I saw families there who showed me where missiles had come down

  • near their children's bedrooms, and I was reminded of - of what that would mean if

  • those were my kids, which is why, as president, we funded an Iron Dome program to stop those

  • missiles. So that's how I've used my travels when

  • I travel to Israel and when I travel to the region.

  • And the central question at this point is going to be, who's going to be credible

  • to all parties involved? And they can look at my track record -

  • whether it's Iran sanctions, whether it's dealing with counterterrorism, whether it's

  • supporting democracy, whether it's supporting women's rights, whether it's supporting

  • religious minorities - and they can say that the president of the United States and

  • the United States of America has stood on the right side of history. And - and that

  • kind of credibility is precisely why we've been able to show leadership on a wide range

  • of issues facing the world right now. MR. SCHIEFFER: What if - what if the prime

  • minister of Israel called you on the phone and said: Our bombers are on the way. We're

  • going to bomb Iran. What do you say? MR. ROMNEY: Bob, let's not go into hypotheticals

  • of that nature. Our relationship with Israel, my relationship with the prime minister of

  • Israel is such that we would not get a call saying our bombers are on the way or their

  • fighters are on the way. This is the kind of thing that would have been discussed and

  • thoroughly evaluated well before that kind of action.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: So you're saying just what -

  • MR. ROMNEY: I'm - that's - that's -

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: OK. But let's see what - (inaudible) -

  • MR. ROMNEY: Yes, but let me - let me - let me come back - let's come back -

  • let's come back and go back to what the president was speaking about, which is what's

  • happening in the world and - and - and the president's statement that things are

  • going so well. Look, I - I look at what's happening

  • around the world and I see Iran four years closer to a bomb. I see the Middle East with

  • a rising tide of violence, chaos, tumult. I see jihadists continuing to spread. Whether

  • they're rising or just about the same level hard to - hard to precisely measure, but

  • it's clear they're there. They're very, very strong.

  • I see Syria with 30,000 civilians dead, Assad still in power. I see our trade deficit with

  • China larger than it's - growing larger every year as a matter of fact. I look around

  • the world and I don't feel that - you see North Korea continuing to export their

  • nuclear technology. Russia's said they're not going to follow

  • Nunn-Lugar anymore; they're (back ?) away from their nuclear proliferation treaty that

  • we had with them. I look around the world, I don't see our influence growing around

  • the world. I see our influence receding, in part because of the failure of the president

  • to deal with our economic challenges at home, in part because of our withdrawal from our

  • commitment to our military and the way I think it ought to be, in part because of the -

  • the - the turmoil with Israel. I mean, the president received a letter from 38 Democrat

  • senators saying the tensions with Israel were a real problem.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: No. MR. ROMNEY: They asked him, please repair

  • the tension - Democrat senators - please repair the damage in his - in his own party.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER (?): All right. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor, the problem is,

  • is that on a whole range of issues, whether it's the Middle East, whether it's Afghanistan,

  • whether it's Iraq, whether it's now Iran, you've been all over the map. I mean,

  • I'm pleased that you now are endorsing our policy of applying diplomatic pressure

  • and potentially having bilateral discussions with the Iranians to end their nuclear program.

  • But just a few years ago you said that's something you'd never do, in the same way

  • that you initially opposed a time table in Afghanistan, now you're for it, although

  • it depends; in the same way that you say you would have ended the war in Iraq, but recently

  • gave a speech saying that we should have 20,000 more folks in there; the same way that you

  • said that it was mission creep to go after Gadhafi.

  • When it comes to going after Osama bin Laden, you said, well, any president would make that

  • call. But when you were a candidate in 2008 - as I was - and I said, if I got bin

  • Laden in our sights, I would take that shot, you said we shouldn't move heaven and earth

  • to get one man, and you said we should ask Pakistan for permission.

  • And if we had asked Pakistan for permission, we would not have gotten him. And it was worth

  • moving heaven and earth to get him. You know, after we killed bin Laden, I was

  • at Ground Zero for a memorial and talked to a - a - a young woman who was 4 years

  • old when 9/11 happened. And the last conversation she had with her

  • father was him calling from the twin towers, saying, Peyton (sp), I love you, and I will

  • always watch over you. And for the next decade she was haunted by that conversation. And

  • she said to me, you know, by finally getting bin Laden, that brought some closure to me.

  • And when we do things like that, when we bring those who have harmed us to justice, that

  • sends a message to the world, and it tells Peyton (sp) that we did not forget her father.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: All right. PRESIDENT OBAMA: And - and I make that

  • point because that's the kind of clarity of leadership - and those decisions are

  • not always popular. Those decisions generally are not poll-tested. And even some in my own

  • party, including my current vice president, had the same critique as you did. But what

  • the American people understand is, is that I look at what we need to get done to keep

  • the American people safe and to move our interests forward, and I make those decisions.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: All right. Let's go - and that leads us - this takes us right

  • to the next segment, Governor, America's longest war, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

  • MR. ROMNEY: Bob - MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor, you get to go first.

  • MR. ROMNEY: You can't - you can't - well, OK, but you can't have the president

  • just lay out a whole series of items without giving me a chance to respond.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: With respect, sir, you had laid out quite a program there.

  • MR. ROMNEY: Well, that's probably true. (Chuckles.)

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: And we'll - we'll give you -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: We'll agree (with that ?).

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: We'll catch you up. The United States is scheduled to turn over

  • responsibility for security in Afghanistan to the Afghans.

  • At that point we will withdraw our combat troops, leave a smaller force of Americans,

  • if I understand our policy, in Afghanistan for training purposes. It seems to me the

  • key question here is what do you do if the deadline arrives and it is obvious the Afghans

  • are unable to handle their security? Do we still leave? And I believe Governor Romney,

  • it - you go first. MR. ROMNEY: Well, we're going to be finished

  • by 2014. And when I'm president, we'll make sure we bring our troops out by the end

  • of 2014. The commanders and the generals there are on track to do so. We've seen progress

  • over the past several years. The surge has been successful, and the training program

  • is proceeding at pace. There are now a large number of Afghan security forces, 350,000,

  • that are - are ready to step in to provide security. And - and we're going to be

  • able to make that transition by the end of - of 2014. So our troops'll come home

  • at that point. I - I can tell you, at the same time, that

  • - that we will make sure that we - we look at what's happening in Pakistan and

  • recognize that what's happening in Pakistan is going to have a major impact on the success

  • in Afghanistan. And - and I say that because I know a lot of people just feel like we should

  • just brush our hands and walk away. And I don't mean you, Mr. President, but some

  • people in the - in our nation feel that Pakistan (doesn't ?) - being nice to

  • us and that we should just walk away from them.

  • But Pakistan is important to the region, to the world and to us, because Pakistan has

  • 100 nuclear warheads, and they're rushing to build a lot more. They'll have more

  • than Great Britain sometime in the - in the relatively near future. They also have

  • the Haqqani network and - and the Taliban existent within their country. And so a -

  • a Pakistan that falls apart, becomes a failed state would be of extraordinary danger to

  • Afghanistan and us. And so we're going to have to remain helpful in encouraging Pakistan

  • to move towards a - a more stable government and - and rebuild a relationship with us.

  • And that means that - that - that our aid that we provide to Pakistan is going to

  • have to be conditioned upon certain benchmarks being met.

  • So for me, I look at this as both a - a - a need to help move Pakistan in the right

  • direction and also to get Afghanistan to be ready. And they will be ready by the end of

  • 2014. MR. SCHIEFFER: Mr. President.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: You know, when I came into office, we were still bogged down in Iraq,

  • and Afghanistan had been drifting for a decade. We ended the war in Iraq, refocused our attention

  • on Afghanistan. And we did deliver a surge of troops. That was facilitated in part because

  • we had ended the war in Iraq. And we are now in a position where we have

  • met many of the objectives that got us there in the first place. Part of what had happened

  • is we'd forgotten why we'd gone. We went because there were people who were responsible

  • for 3,000 American deaths. And so we decimated al-Qaida's core leadership in the border

  • regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan. We then started to build up Afghan forces.

  • And we're now in a position where we can transition out, because there's no reason

  • why Americans should die when Afghans are perfectly capable of defending their own country.

  • Now, that transition's - has to take place in a responsible fashion. We've been

  • there a long time, and we've got to make sure that we and our coalition partners are

  • pulling out responsibly and giving Afghans the capabilities that they need.

  • But what I think the American people recognize is after a decade of war, it's time to

  • do some nation-building here at home. And what we can now do is free up some resources

  • to, for example, put Americans back to work, especially our veterans, rebuilding our roads,

  • our bridges, our schools, making sure that, you know, our veterans are getting the care

  • that they need when it comes to post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury,

  • making sure that the certifications that they need for good jobs of the future are in place.

  • You know, I was having lunch with some -

  • a veteran in Minnesota who had been a medic dealing with the most extreme circumstances.

  • When he came home and he wanted to become a nurse, he had to start from scratch. And

  • what we've said is, let's change those certifications.

  • The first lady has done great work with an organization called Joining Forces putting

  • our veterans back to work. And as a consequence, veterans' unemployment is actually now

  • lower than general population, it was higher when I came into office. So those are the

  • kinds of things that we can now do because we're making that transition in Afghanistan.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: All right. Let me go to Governor Romney because you talked about Pakistan and

  • what needs to be done there. General Allen, our commander in Afghanistan, says that Americans

  • continue to die at the hands of groups who are supported by Pakistan. We know that Pakistan

  • has arrested the doctor who helped us catch Obama's - bin Laden. It still provides

  • safe haven for terrorists, yet we continue to give Pakistan billions of dollars. Is it

  • time for us to divorce Pakistan? MR. ROMNEY: No, it's not time to divorce

  • a nation on earth that has a hundred nuclear weapons and is on the way to double that at

  • some point, a nation that has serious threats from terrorist groups within its nation -

  • as I indicated before, the Taliban, Haqqani network. It's a nation that's not like

  • - like others and that does not have a civilian leadership that is calling the shots

  • there. You've got the ISI, their intelligence

  • organization is probably the most powerful of the - of the three branches there. Then

  • you have the military and then you have the - the civilian government. This is a nation

  • which if it falls apart - if it becomes a failed state, there are nuclear weapons

  • there and you've got - you've got terrorists there who could grab their -

  • their hands onto those nuclear weapons. This is - this is an important part of

  • the world for us. Pakistan is - is technically an ally, and they're not acting very much

  • like an ally right now, but we have some work to do.

  • And I - I don't blame the administration for the fact that the relationship with Pakistan

  • is strained. We had to go into Pakistan; we had to go in there to get Osama bin Laden.

  • That was the right thing to do. And that upset them, but there was obviously a great deal

  • of anger even before that. But we're going to have to work with the - with the people

  • in Pakistan to try and help them move to a more responsible course than the one that

  • they're on. And it's important for them, it's important for the nuclear weapons,

  • it's important for the success of Afghanistan, because inside Pakistan you have a large group

  • of Pashtuns that are - that are Taliban, that they're going to come rushing back

  • into Afghanistan when we go. And that's one of the reasons the Afghan security forces

  • have so much work to do to be able to fight against that. But it's important for us

  • to recognize that we can't just walk away from Pakistan. But we do need to make sure

  • that as we - as we send support for them, that this is tied to them making progress

  • on - on matters that would lead them to becoming a civil society.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you, Governor, because we know President Obama's position on this,

  • what is - what is your position on the use of drones?

  • MR. ROMNEY: Well, I believe that we should use any and all means necessary to take out

  • people who pose a threat to us and our friends around the world. And it's widely reported

  • that drones are being used in drone strikes, and I support that entirely and feel the president

  • was right to up the usage of that technology and believe that we should continue to use

  • it to continue to go after the people who represent a threat to this nation and to our

  • friends. Let me also note that, as I said earlier,

  • we're going to have to do more than just going after leaders and - and killing bad

  • guys, important as that is. We're also going to have to have a far more effective

  • and comprehensive strategy to help move the world away from terror and Islamic extremism.

  • We haven't done that yet. We talk a lot about these things, but you look at the -

  • the record. You look at the record of the last four years and say, is Iran closer to

  • a bomb? Yes. Is the Middle East in tumult? Yes. Is - is al-Qaida on the run, on its

  • heels? No. Is - are Israel and the Palestinians closer to - to reaching a peace agreement?

  • No, they haven't had talks in two years. We have not seen the progress we need to have,

  • and I'm convinced that with strong leadership and an effort to build a strategy based upon

  • helping these nations reject extremism, we can see the kind of peace and prosperity the

  • world demands. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, keep in mind our strategy

  • wasn't just going after bin Laden. We've created partnerships throughout the region

  • to deal with extremism - in Somalia, in Yemen, in Pakistan. And what we've also

  • done is engage these governments in the kind of reforms that are actually going to make

  • a difference in people's lives day to day, to make sure that their government aren't

  • corrupt, to make sure that they are treating women with the kind of respect and dignity

  • that every nation that succeeds has shown, and to make sure that they've got a free

  • market system that works. So across the board, we are engaging them

  • in building capacity in these countries and we have stood on the side of democracy. One

  • thing I think Americans should be proud of - when Tunisians began to protest, this

  • nation, me, my administration stood with them earlier than just about any other country.

  • In Egypt we stood on the side of democracy. In Libya we stood on the side of the people.

  • And as a consequence there is no doubt that attitudes about Americans have changed.

  • But there are always going to be elements in these countries that potentially threaten

  • the United States. And we want to shrink those groups and those

  • networks, and we can do that, but we're always also going to have to maintain vigilance

  • when it comes to terrorist activities. The truth, though, is that al-Qaida is much weaker

  • than it was when I came into office, and they don't have the same capacities to attack

  • the U.S. homeland and our allies as they did four years ago.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Let's go to the next segment because it's a very important one. It is

  • the rise of China and future challenges for America. I want to just begin this by asking

  • both of you - and Mr. President, you go first this time - what do you believe is

  • the greatest future threat to the national security of this country?

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, I think it will continue to be terrorist networks. We have to remain

  • vigilant, as I just said. But with respect to China, China's both

  • an adversary but also a potential partner in the international community if it's

  • following the rules. So my attitude coming into office was that we are going to insist

  • that China plays by the same rules as everybody else.

  • And I know Americans had - had seen jobs being shipped overseas, businesses and workers

  • not getting a level playing field when it came to trade. And that's the reason why

  • I set up a trade task force to go after cheaters when it came to international trade. That's

  • the reason why we have brought more cases against China for violating trade rules than

  • the other - the previous administration had done in two terms. And we've won just

  • about every case that we've filed, that - that has been decided. In fact, just

  • recently, steelworkers in Ohio and throughout the Midwest, Pennsylvania, are in a position

  • now to sell steel to China because we won that case.

  • We had a tire case in which they were flooding us with cheap domestic tires - or -

  • or - or cheap Chinese tires. And we put a stop to it and, as a consequence, saved

  • jobs throughout America. I have to say that Governor Romney criticized me for being too

  • tough in that tire case, said this wouldn't be good for American workers and that it would

  • be protectionist. But I tell you, those workers don't feel that way. They feel as if they

  • had finally an administration who was going to take this issue seriously.

  • Over the long term, in order for us to compete with China, we've also got to make sure,

  • though, that we're taking - taking care of business here at home. If we don't have

  • the best education system in the world, if we don't continue to put money into research

  • and technology that will allow us to - to create great businesses here in the United

  • States, that's how we lose the competition. And unfortunately, Governor Romney's budget

  • and his proposals would not allow us to make those investments.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: All right. Governor.

  • MR. ROMNEY: Well, first of all, it's not government that makes business successful.

  • It's not government investments that make businesses grow and hire people.

  • Let me also note that the greatest threat that the world faces, the greatest national

  • security threat, is a nuclear Iran. Let's talk about China. China has an interest

  • that's very much like ours in one respect, and that is they want a stable world. They

  • don't want war. They don't want to see protectionism. They don't want to see the

  • - the world break out into - into various forms of chaos, because they have to -

  • they have to manufacture goods and put people to work. And they have about 20,000 - 20

  • million, rather, people coming out of the farms every year, coming into the cities,

  • needing jobs. So they want the economy to work and the world to be free and open.

  • And so we can be a partner with China. We don't have to be an adversary in any way,

  • shape or form. We can work with them. We can collaborate with them if they're willing

  • to be responsible. Now, they look at us and say, is it a good

  • idea to be with America? How strong are we going to be? How strong

  • is our economy? They look at the fact that we owe them a trillion

  • dollars and owe other people 16 trillion (dollars) in total, including them. They - they look

  • at our - our decision to - to cut back on our military capabilities - a trillion

  • dollars. The secretary of defense called these trillion dollars of cuts to our military devastating.

  • It's not my term. It's the president's own secretary of defense called them devastating.

  • They look at America's commitments around the world and they see what's happening

  • and they say, well, OK, is America going to be strong? And the answer is yes. If I'm

  • president, America will be very strong. We'll also make sure that we have trade

  • relations with China that work for us. I've watched year in and year out as companies

  • have shut down and people have lost their jobs because China has not played by the same

  • rules, in part by holding down artificially the value of their currency. It holds down

  • the prices of their goods. It means our goods aren't as competitive and we lose jobs.

  • That's got to end. They're making some progress; they need

  • to make more. That's why on day one I will label them a currency manipulator which allows

  • us to apply tariffs where they're taking jobs. They're stealing our intellectual

  • property, our patents, our designs, our technology, hacking into our computers, counterfeiting

  • our goods. They have to understand, we want to trade with them, we want a world that's

  • stable, we like free enterprise, but you got to play by the rules.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Well, Governor, let me just ask you, if you declare them a currency manipulator

  • on day one, some people are saying you're just going to start a trade war with China

  • on day one. Is that - isn't there a risk that that could happen?

  • MR. ROMNEY: Well, they sell us about this much stuff every year. And we sell them about

  • this much stuff every year. So it's pretty clear who doesn't want a trade war. And

  • there's one going on right now that we don't know about. It's a silent one

  • and they're winning. We have an enormous trade imbalance with China. And it's worse

  • this year than last year. And it was worse last year than the year before.

  • And - and so we have to understand that we can't just surrender and - and lose

  • jobs year in and year out. We have to say to our friends in China, look, you guys are

  • playing aggressively, we understand it, but - but this can't keep on going. You

  • can't keep on holding down the value of your currency, stealing our intellectual property,

  • counterfeiting our products, selling them around the world, even into the United States.

  • I was with one company that makes valves in - in process industries. And they said,

  • look, we were - we were having some valves coming in that - that were broken, and

  • we had to repair them under warranty. And we looked them up, and - and they had our

  • serial number on them. And then we noticed that - that there was more than one with

  • that same serial number. They were counterfeit products being made overseas with the same

  • serial number as a U.S. company, the same packaging. These were being sold into our

  • market and around the world as if they were made by the U.S. competitor.

  • This can't go on. I want a great relationship with China. China can be our partner. But

  • - but that doesn't mean they can just roll all over us and steal our jobs on an

  • unfair basis. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, Governor Romney's

  • right. You are familiar with jobs being shipped overseas, because you invested in companies

  • that were shipping jobs overseas. And, you know, that's your right. I mean, that's

  • how our free market works. But I've made a different bet on American

  • workers. You know, if we had taken your advice, Governor Romney, about our auto industry,

  • we'd be buying cars from China instead of selling cars to China. If we take your

  • advice with respect to how we change our tax codes so that companies that are in profits

  • overseas don't pay U.S. taxes compared to companies here that are paying taxes, now,

  • that's estimated to create 800,000 jobs. The problem is they won't be here; they'll

  • be in places like China. And if we're not making investments in education and basic

  • research, which is not something that the private sector is doing at a sufficient pace

  • right now and has never done, then we will lose the lead in things like clean energy

  • technology. Now, with respect to what we've done with

  • China already, U.S. exports have doubled, since I came into office, to China. And actually,

  • currencies are at their most advantageous point for U.S. exporters since 1993. We absolutely

  • have to make more progress, and that's why we're going to keep on pressing.

  • And when it comes to our military and Chinese security, part of the reason that we were

  • able to pivot to the Asia-Pacific region after having ended the war in Iraq and transitioning

  • out of Afghanistan, is precisely because this is going to be a massive growth area in the

  • future. And we believe China can be a partner, but we're also sending a very clear signal

  • that America is a Pacific power, that we are going to have a presence there. We are working

  • with countries in the region to make sure, for example, that ships can pass through,

  • that commerce continues. And we're organizing trade relations with countries other than

  • China so that China starts feeling more pressure about meeting basic international standards.

  • That's the kind of leadership we've shown in the region. That's the kind of

  • leadership that we'll continue to show. MR. ROMNEY: I just want to take one of those

  • points. Again, attacking me is not talking about an agenda for getting more trade and

  • opening up more jobs in this country. But the president mentioned the auto industry

  • and that somehow I would be in favor of jobs being elsewhere. Nothing could be further

  • from the truth. I'm a son of Detroit. I was born in Detroit. My dad was head of a

  • car company. I like American cars. And I would do nothing to hurt the U.S. auto industry.

  • My plan to get the industry on its feet when it was in real trouble was not to start writing

  • checks. It was President Bush that wrote the first checks. I disagree with that. I said

  • they need - these companies need to go through a managed bankruptcy, and in that

  • process they can get government help and government guarantees, but they need to go through bankruptcy

  • to get rid of excess cost and the debt burden that they'd - they'd built up.

  • And fortunately the president picked - PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor Romney, that's

  • not what you said. MR. ROMNEY: Fortunately, the president -

  • you can take - you can take a look at the op-ed.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor, you did not - MR. ROMNEY: You can take a look at the op-ed.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: You did not say that you would provide, Governor, help.

  • MR. ROMNEY: You know, I'm - I'm still speaking. I said that we would provide guarantees

  • and - and that was what was able to allow these companies to go through bankruptcy,

  • to come out of bankruptcy. Under no circumstances would I do anything other than to help this

  • industry get on its feet. And the idea that has been suggested that I would liquidate

  • the industry - of course not. Of course not.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Let's check the record. MR. ROMNEY: That's the height of silliness.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Let's - let's check the record.

  • MR. ROMNEY: I have never said I would - I would liquidate the industry. I want to

  • keep the industry growing and thriving. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor, the people in Detroit

  • don't forget. MR. ROMNEY: And - and that's I have

  • the kind of commitment to make sure that our industries in this country can compete and

  • be successful. We in this country can compete successfully with anyone in the world. And

  • we're going to. We're going to have to have a president, however, that doesn't

  • think that somehow the government investing in - in car companies like Tesla and -

  • and Fisker, making electric battery cars - this is not research, Mr. President. These

  • are the government investing in companies, investing in Solyndra. This is a company.

  • This isn't basic research. I - I want to invest in research. Research is great.

  • Providing funding to universities and think tanks - great. But investing in companies?

  • Absolutely not. That's the wrong way to go.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor, the fact of the matter is -

  • MR. ROMNEY: I'm still speaking. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well - (chuckles) -

  • MR. ROMNEY: So I want to make sure that we make - we make America more competitive

  • - PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yeah.

  • MR. ROMNEY: - and that we do those things that make America the most attractive place

  • in the world for entrepreneurs, innovators, businesses to grow. But your investing in

  • companies doesn't do that. In fact it makes it less likely for them to come here -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: All right, Governor - MR. ROMNEY: - because the private sector's

  • not going to invest in a - in a - in a solar company if -

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: I'm happy - I'm - I'm - I'm happy to respond -

  • MR. ROMNEY: - if you're investing government money and someone else's.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: You've held the floor for a while. The - look, I think anybody

  • out there can check the record. Governor Romney, you keep on trying to, you know, airbrush

  • history here. You were very clear that you would not provide

  • government assistance to the U.S. auto companies even if they went through bankruptcy. You

  • said that they could get it in the private marketplace. That wasn't true. They would

  • have gone through a - MR. ROMNEY: You're wrong. You're wrong,

  • Mr. President. PRESIDENT OBAMA: I - no, I am not wrong.

  • MR. ROMNEY: You're wrong. PRESIDENT OBAMA: I am not wrong. And -

  • MR. ROMNEY: People can look it up. You're right.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: People will look it up. MR. ROMNEY: Good.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: But more importantly, it is true that in order for us to be competitive,

  • we're going to have to make some smart choices right now. Cutting our education budget

  • - that's not a smart choice. That will not help us compete with China. Cutting our

  • investments in research and technology - that's not a smart choice. That will not

  • help us compete with China. Bringing down (sic) our deficit by adding $7 trillion of

  • tax cuts and military spending that our military's not asking for before we even get to the debt

  • that we currently have - that is not going to make us more competitive. Those are the

  • kinds of choices that the American people face right now. Having a tax code that rewards

  • companies that are shipping jobs overseas instead of companies that are investing here

  • in the United States - that will not make us more competitive.

  • And - and the one thing that I'm absolutely clear about is that after a decade in which

  • we saw drift, jobs being shipped overseas, nobody championing American workers and American

  • businesses, we've now begun to make some real progress. What we can't do is go back

  • to the same policies that got us into such difficulty in the first place. And that's

  • why we have to move forward and not go back. MR. ROMNEY: I couldn't agree more about

  • going forward, but I certainly don't want to go back to the policies of the last four

  • years. The policies of the last four years have seen incomes in America decline every

  • year for middle-income families, now down $4,300 during your term, 23 million Americans

  • still struggling to find a good job. When you came into office, 32 million people on

  • food stamps - today 47 million people on food stamps.

  • When you came to office, just over $10 trillion in debt - now $16 trillion in debt. It

  • hasn't worked. You said by now we'd be at 5.4 percent unemployment. We're 9

  • million jobs short of that. I've met some of those people. I've met them in Appleton,

  • Wisconsin. I - I met a young woman in - in - in Philadelphia who's coming out

  • of - out of college, can't find work. I've been - Ann was with someone just

  • the other day that was just weeping about not being able to get work. It's just a

  • tragedy in a nation so prosperous as ours that these last four years have been so hard.

  • And that - and that's why it's so critical that we make America once again the

  • most attractive place in the world to start businesses, to build jobs, to grow the economy.

  • And that's not going to happen by - by just hiring teachers. Look, I - I love

  • to - I love teachers, and I'm happy to have states and communities that want to

  • hire teachers, do that. I - by the way, I don't like to have the federal government

  • start pushing its way deeper and deeper into - into our schools. Let the states and

  • localities do that. I was a governor. The federal government didn't hire our teachers.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor - MR. ROMNEY: But I love teachers. But I want

  • to get our private sector growing, and I know how to do it.

  • MR. SCHIEFFER: I think we all love teachers. (Laughter.) Gentlemen, thank you so much for

  • a very vigorous debate. We have come to the end. It is time for closing statements. I

  • believe you're first, Mr. President. PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, thank you very much

  • Bob, Governor Romney, and to Lynn University. You know, you've now heard three debates,

  • months of campaigning and way too many TV commercials. (Laughter.) And now you've

  • got a choice. You know, over the last four years, we've made real progress digging

  • our way out of policies that gave us two prolonged wars, record deficits and the worst economic

  • crisis since the Great Depression. And Governor Romney wants to take us back

  • to those policies: a foreign policy that's wrong and reckless; economic policies that

  • won't create jobs, won't reduce our deficit, but will make sure that folks at

  • the very top don't have to play by the same rules that you do.

  • And I've got a different vision for America. I want to build on our strengths. And I put

  • forward a plan to make sure that we're bringing manufacturing jobs back to our shores

  • by rewarding companies and small businesses that are investing here not overseas. I want

  • to make sure we've got the best education system in the world and we're retraining

  • our workers for the jobs of tomorrow. I want to control our own energy by developing

  • oil and natural gas, but also the energy sources of the future. Yes, I want to reduce our deficit

  • by cutting spending that we don't need, but also by asking the wealthy to do a little

  • bit more so that we can invest in things like research and technology that are the key to

  • a 21st century economy. As commander in chief, I will maintain the

  • strongest military in the world, keep faith with our troops and go after those who would

  • do us harm. But after a decade of war, I think we all recognize we got to do some nation

  • building here at home, rebuilding our roads, our bridges and especially caring for our

  • veterans who've sacrificed so much for our freedom.

  • You know, we've been through tough times, but we always bounce back because of our character,

  • because we pull together. And if I have the privilege of being your president for another

  • four years, I promise you I will always listen to your voices, I will fight for your families

  • and I will work every single day to make sure that America continues to be the greatest

  • nation on earth. Thank you. MR. SCHIEFFER: Governor.

  • MR. ROMNEY: Thank you, Bob, Mr. President, folks at Lynn University - good to be with

  • you. I'm optimistic about the future. I'm excited about our prospects as a nation. I

  • want to see peace. I want to see growing peace in this country, it's our objective. We

  • have an opportunity to have real leadership. America's going to have that kind of leadership

  • and continue to promote principles of peace that'll make a world the safer place and

  • make people in this country more confident that their future is secure.

  • I also want to make sure that we get this economy going. And there are two very different

  • paths the country can take. One is a path represented by the president, which, at the

  • end of four years, would mean we'd have $20 trillion in debt, heading towards Greece.

  • I'll get us on track to a balanced budget. The president's path will mean continuing

  • declining in take-home pay. I want to make sure our take-home pay turns around and starts

  • to grow. The president's path means 20 million people out of work struggling for

  • a good job. I'll get people back to work with 12 million new jobs. I'm going to

  • make sure that we get people off of food stamps not by cutting the program but by getting

  • them good jobs. America's going to come back. And for that

  • to happen, we're going to have to have a president who can work across the aisle.

  • I was in a state where my legislature was 87 percent Democrat. I learned how to get

  • along on the other side of the aisle. We've got to do that in Washington. Washington is

  • broken. I know what it takes to get this country back. And we'll work with good Democrats

  • and good Republicans to do that. This nation is the hope of the earth. We've

  • been blessed by having a nation that's free and prosperous thanks to the contributions

  • of the Greatest Generation. They've held a torch for the world to see, the torch of

  • freedom and hope and opportunity. Now it's our turn to take that torch. I'm convinced

  • we'll do it. We need strong leadership. I'd like to be that leader, with your support.

  • I'll work with you. I'll lead you in an open and honest way. And I ask for your

  • vote. I'd like to be the next president of the United States to support and help this

  • great nation, and to make sure that we all together maintain America as the hope of the

  • earth. Thank you so much. MR. SCHIEFFER: Gentlemen, thank you both so

  • much. That brings an end to this year's debates. And we want to thank Lynn University

  • and its students for having us. As I always do at the end of these debates, I leave you

  • with the words of my mom who said, go vote. It makes you feel big and strong.

  • PRESIDENT OBAMA: That's great. MR. SCHIEFFER: Good night.

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バラク・オバマとミット・ロムニーの完全な最終大統領討論会 (The Complete Final Presidential Debate between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney)

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    marmot に公開 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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