Name: 芸術と文化地域社会の強化 I フェローズ・フェスティバル 2025 (Arts & Culture: Strengthening Communities I Fellows Festival 2025)
Uploaded: 2025-06-18T11:09:25.000Z
Duration: 47 min 2 s
Description: VoiceTubeの動画で発音を聞きながら英語表現を覚えよう！学べる英語：

動名詞

Our first panel this morning is an absolutely fantastic one on a topic of real importance of longstanding to the RSA, which is the role of arts and culture as a binding agent in communities.

今朝の最初のパネルディスカッションは、RSAにとって長年にわたって重要なテーマである、コミュニティにおける芸術文化の役割についてです。

We have an amazing panel to my left, we have Melanie Abrahams chairing this amazing panel so please join me in welcoming to the stage Melanie and the panel.

私の左隣には、メラニー・エイブラハムズが司会を務める素晴らしいパネルがあります。

A very good morning to you and welcome to the RSA Fellows Festival.

おはようございます。RSAフェロー・フェスティバルにようこそお越しくださいました。

It's so great to be here as well as part of the initial event looking at ways that we can strengthen communities.

コミュニティを強化する方法を検討する最初のイベントの一部として、この場にいることができてとてもうれしい。

So our focus is on the vital role that arts and culture plays in strengthening communities and I'm sure many of you in the audience will have something to say about that and we will be welcoming questions later on.

ですから、私たちの焦点は、芸術文化が地域社会の強化に果たす重要な役割にあります。会場にいらっしゃる多くの方が、このことについて何かおっしゃると思いますので、後ほど質問を受け付けます。

This session brings together three extraordinary panelists whose work creatively empowers people and places and my role is as a curator, a consultant and a founder of Renaissance One and for over 25 years I've championed diversity and well-being through multidisciplinary projects.

このセッションでは、人と場所をクリエイティブに力づける仕事をしている3人の素晴らしいパネリストが集まります。私の役割は、キュレーター、コンサルタント、そしてルネッサンス・ワンの創設者として、25年以上にわたって学際的なプロジェクトを通じて多様性と幸福を支持してきました。

My name is Melanie Abrahams and for me it's important to celebrate community, creativity and connection.

私の名前はメラニー・エイブラハムズ。私にとって大切なのは、コミュニティ、創造性、つながりを祝うこと。

So I'm delighted to be joined by Morag Myers-Gough, John Costey and Amy Vaughan, leaders at the intersection of artistic practice, community voice and cultural inclusion and I just want to give a bit of background to the speakers.

今回、モラグ・マイヤーズ＝ゴウ、ジョン・コスティ、エイミー・ヴォーンという、芸術的実践、コミュニティーの声、文化的包摂の交差点で活躍するリーダーたちにお集まりいただけることを嬉しく思います。

So in the middle here, wonderfully dressed, Morag Myers-Gough.

この真ん中、素晴らしいドレスのモラグ・マイヤーズ＝ゴウ。

Morag is a renowned artist and designer known for vibrant and large-scale public installations that energise communities and transform shared spaces.

モラグは、コミュニティに活力を与え、共有スペースを一変させる、活気に満ちた大規模な公共インスタレーションで知られる有名なアーティストでありデザイナーである。

John is a multidisciplinary artist whose socially engaged work reflects the identity, resilience and rehabilitation drawing from his lived experience.

ジョンは、自身の生活体験から得たアイデンティティ、回復力、リハビリテーションを反映した社会参加型の作品を制作する、多分野にまたがるアーティストである。

そして左端がエイミー・ヴォーン。

Amy is executive director at Battersea Arts Centre, a leading figure for venue management and policy making and organisational change over several decades and her career spans roles also at Arts Council England and the wider cultural sector as consultant, co-author and trustee and I'm looking forward to what she'll be doing over the coming months.

エイミーはバタシー・アーツ・センターのエグゼクティブ・ディレクターであり、数十年にわたり会場運営や政策立案、組織変革の第一人者として活躍してきた。彼女のキャリアは、アーツカウンシル・イングランドや、コンサルタント、共著者、評議員など、より広い文化セクターにも及んでいる。

It's really great that you're here as an audience.

観客として来てくれて本当にうれしい。

Please let's welcome them to this occasion.

どうかこの機会に彼らを歓迎しよう。

What I'm going to do now and in between I'll be probably pouring some water as well because we've just arrived is I'll invite each of our three speakers to give a short two-minute introduction to their work and their practice in arts and culture just to set the scene and their perspective on the role of arts and culture in strengthening communities.

これから3人のスピーカーの方々に、それぞれの仕事や文化芸術の実践について2分程度で紹介していただきます。

だから、もしジョンを招待することができたらお願いしたい。

John, I suppose I'd start with in 2007 I was arrested for five armed robberies and sent to prison and while I was there and I discovered art it took that for me to feel like I could actually engage in it and since coming out I've worked, I've studied and worked as a tutor and artist and social practitioner.

ジョン 2007年に5件の武装強盗事件で逮捕され、刑務所に送られたんだ。そこでアートに出会ってから、アートに関わることができるようになった。

I do a lot of crime diversion stuff with people in prison and coming out of prison and work a lot with people that have lived experience whether it be drug issues or criminality yeah and I also have a studio practice and I'm based around the corner at Somerset House.

刑務所にいる人たちや刑務所から出てきた人たちと犯罪を回避するための活動をたくさんしているし、薬物問題であれ犯罪であれ、生きてきた経験を持つ人たちと一緒に仕事をすることも多い。

モレッグ・マイヤースコーです。

I work a lot on huge installations with community and we build the work together so and my work is really all structured around belonging and understanding belonging and how we can how that works in this world that we live in now.

私の作品は、帰属意識と、帰属意識を理解すること、そして私たちが今生きているこの世界で、それがどのように機能するかを中心に構成されている。

ありがとう、そしてエイミー。

私はエイミーで、アーティストではないわ。

I wish I was but I'm not but I am an arts administrator which is really dull but I love it.

そうでありたいけど、そうではないんだ。でも、僕はアートアドミニストレータで、本当に退屈だけど、大好きな仕事なんだ。

I kind of fell into arts and culture I guess kind of through I dropped out of school early and it was the thing that I loved and it was the thing that saved me ultimately because I what I was really good at was getting stuff done and suddenly realised that here was this world that I could kind of make myself very useful in and so my career started in youth work and youth community working using the arts to help young people who had dropped out of school and went from there and then somehow I ended up at the Arts Council and stayed there for 10 years and had a wonderful time.

私のキャリアは、学校を中退した若者を支援するための芸術を使ったユースワークやユースコミュニティワーキングから始まり、そこからどうにかアーツカウンシルに辿り着き、10年間在籍して素晴らしい時間を過ごしました。

I absolutely loved it contrary to all sort of popular narrative about the Arts Council I found it great and now my bucket list organisation is always Bathsea Arts Centre so I'm delighted to have been there now for a few years.

アーツカウンシルについての一般的な説明とは裏腹に、私はこのアーツカウンシルをとても気に入った。

Thank you and such a rich background all three of you and I guess one of the reasons we're here is the value of communities is always important but one could argue more important than ever with the kind of fractures and the traumas that have taken place over the last few years including Covid but also there have been layers of funding cuts and other inequalities kind of persisting so I wanted to ask you you know whether you're drawing on the perspectives and experience of others or on yourself like what is the role that culture plays specifically or what role could it play in addressing these systemic inequalities?

ありがとうございます。お三方とも豊かな背景をお持ちで、私たちがここにいる理由のひとつは、コミュニティの価値が常に重要であるということですが、コヴィッドを含め、ここ数年の間に起こったある種の分裂やトラウマによって、これまで以上に重要であると言えるかもしれません。

I mean I suppose I would see this from two sides really if I just think about it from the perspective of running an organisation like BAC, Bathsea Arts Centre, sorry for the organisation like that you're sort of you're always thinking about what you're delivering and what impact you're having and making kind of very very careful decisions about how you are I suppose using increasingly smaller and smaller resources to have as more and more impact and so you're sort of stretching yourself thinner and thinner and thinner and you begin to wonder whether you're actually still having the impact that this particular organisation was 10 years ago or 20 years ago or Bathsea was 50 this year, last year, and when we started to talk to people about the richness of that kind of the intersection with the community that had happened over the lifetime of that organisation you realise that actually the rocket fuel of the organisation isn't actually the money, it's the people and it's the communities that it works with, it's the communities that step up and save it every time it might nearly be going bankrupt, like it's all of those, it's that network that it's part of and it's just sort of reaffirmed to me that what an art space allows people to do in terms of a physical art space as in a big building sitting in South London is that it allows a space for conversations that can't necessarily happen in other spaces that feel difficult, that feel challenging, that feel joyous, it can be all of those things in one place and I sort of struggle to think where else that can happen and you can sort of intervene in different ways at different times depending on what is needed by the community at that point.

BAC、バースシー・アーツ・センターのような組織を運営する立場から考えてみると、これは2つの側面から見ることができます、BACのような組織では、何を提供し、どのようなインパクトを与えているのかを常に考え、より多くのインパクトを与えるために、より少ないリソースでどのように活動するかについて、非常に慎重な決断を下しています、そして、その組織の存続期間中に起こったコミュニティとの交流の豊かさについて人々に話をするようになると、組織のロケット燃料は実はお金ではないことに気づく、アートスペースが、南ロンドンにある大

ちょっと乱文になってしまって申し訳ない。

No that's wonderful, from a personal perspective I live not too far away from Bathsea Art Centre and as an eight-year-old I used to play steel pan there and as someone of Caribbean heritage it was really important for me to have spaces that were safe but also offered aspects to cultural heritage, there weren't that many places that would offer that, you know what I mean, and more recently it's become like a sanctuary and an open space and a relaxed space, long before we knew about what relaxed performances were, so they've been very kind of groundbreaking in that, so yeah I can definitely endorse that and I think as well in terms of your individual practice, either venues and organisations are drawn to you by your inclusivity or you're drawn to them because certainly from what I see of your work you've been working within these spaces for some time, so thank you.

個人的な観点から言うと、私はバシー・アートセンターからそれほど遠くないところに住んでいて、8歳のころはよくそこでスティールパンを演奏していました。カリブ海の血を引く私にとって、安全でありながら文化遺産的な側面も提供してくれるスペースがあることは本当に重要でした、あなたの個人的な活動という点でも、会場や組織があなたの包括性に惹かれてやってくるか、あなたが彼らに惹かれてやってくるかのどちらかだと思います。

Yeah well I like working on the streets and I like taking over places that have been ignored for a long time but they could actually bring communities together.

そうだね......僕はストリートで働くのが好きだし、長い間無視されてきた場所を引き継ぐのが好きなんだ。

What I find often when I'm asked to do a project it often comes from a city that has a community-based arts group and they ask me and they have really big ambitions and then they tell me how much budget they've got and then I say well it's not about paying me, it's actually whether we can physically make this thing that you've got this aspiration for, but because people have these amazing aspirations I want to make that happen and the way to make that happen is to get everybody involved in the making of the project and also sourcing the materials and things and so when we start if that's the situation it's really important for me that everybody gets on board and then we find ways of making it happen and we do and then people get what they want, amazing things, and I feel like I want to help them make those amazing things as well and that's really empowering for them and for me as well.

私がプロジェクトの依頼を受けたときによく感じるのは、コミュニティを基盤とするアート・グループから依頼を受けることが多いということです。彼らは本当に大きな野望を抱いていて、私に予算がいくらあるかと言うのです、そして、それを実現する方法は、プロジェクトの制作にみんなを参加させることで、材料やいろいろなものを調達することなんだ。だから、もしそのような状況であれば、スタートするときに、みんなが乗り気になってくれることが僕にとって本当に重要なんだ。そして、それを実現する方法を見つけ、実現するんだ。そうすれば、みんな

Yeah and I think looking at your work I think you've mentioned that the aspect of problem solving is important to you and I think that kind of aspect of being iterative or flexing the way that we problem solve some of these critical inequalities within our communities and society at large is also a really important skill and asset to have as well as an impetus to have as well rather than thinking that certain policies don't need changing and flexing and adapting to real life.

あなたの仕事ぶりを見ていると、問題解決という側面が重要だとおっしゃっているように思います。地域社会や社会全体における重大な不平等を解決するために、反復的であったり、柔軟であったりすることは、ある種の政策が現実の生活に変化や適応を必要としないと考えるのではなく、本当に重要なスキルであり財産であり、持つべき原動力でもあると思います。

So thank you Maureen for the work you do and John I was also looking at the, you've co-curated an exhibition last year which was quite resounding and looked at different aspects of lived experience and some of your work has been unfolding and exploring not just your lived experience but the experience of others.

また、昨年、共同キュレーターを務めた展覧会では、生活体験のさまざまな側面が取り上げられ、大きな反響を呼びました。

それについて少し話していただけますか？

Yeah, well most of the time I'm working in prisons and probation offices so it's mostly with people that have been taken away from their communities and often like very isolated, sometimes volatile people that maybe don't know how to express themselves and don't realise that art has many guises.

ほとんどの場合、私は刑務所や保護観察所で働いているので、地域社会から連れ去られた人たちや、孤立している人たち、時には不安定な人たちを相手にすることが多い。

So a lot of what I do is trying to convince people that art is an option for you to get this inner turmoil out and so like yesterday I was working with a group of guys who have all just left prison and every time we meet we say what they get from coming to the groups with me and it's in a community centre in Stevenage and we've wrote a play about their lived experience of the criminal justice system and also housing which is a massive problem at the moment and I get to see them transform and it's quite difficult to say exactly what that looks like.

だから、私がしていることの多くは、心の動揺を吐き出すためにアートが選択肢のひとつであることを人々に納得してもらおうとすることなんだ。昨日も、刑務所を出たばかりの男たちと一緒に仕事をしたんだけど、会うたびに、彼らが私と一緒にグループに来ることで何を得ることができるかを話していた。

It's mostly they didn't speak at the beginning and now they're really excited and they have found a community together and there is a community of people who have healed themselves through art but you kind of have to seek them out a bit and once you meet them, I've got like a big list of people who I think are on my team, we're all trying to prove the capabilities of art in terms of healing and then there's other groups that I have to mix with in the art world who actually get really celebrated for their work but it doesn't have that aspect or that element even considered in the execution of an individual practice so I think working in groups of people is the most valuable kind of art you can engage in because I change worlds but it might be an individual world and perspective so in that I'm really proud that I can lift the vibration and spread some hopefully joy.

アートを通して自分自身を癒した人たちのコミュニティがある、そして、アートの世界には、実際に自分の作品が賞賛されるようなグループもあるけれど、個人で活動する上ではそのような側面や要素は考慮されない。

Yeah and that aspect of empathy and listening that perhaps you're giving to people that might not be expecting it or might not have received it and we've been talking today about strengthening communities and I guess it's important to note that some individuals won't have good experiences with their biological families but they might find family and community through others, through arts and culture, through the different interactions they have and in terms of that, that aspect of finding family, finding community, could we maybe explore the aspect of what changes are needed in how the sector supports grassroots artists and initiatives because sometimes grassroots artists initiatives have been very much down in the pecking order of things and also we do have to address I think that aspect of institutions versing individuals like sometimes there are individuals within communities who are really playing to their strengths and punching above their weight you know and sometimes we might undervalue their kind of contribution towards things so if I could maybe turn to you Morag and ask you, what in your opinion would be any kind of changes that might be needed or useful in how the sector supports grassroots artists initiatives?

今日、コミュニティの強化について話しましたが、生物学的な家族とは良い関係を築けなかったとしても、他の人たちや芸術文化、さまざまな交流を通して、家族やコミュニティを見つけることができる人もいます、草の根のアーティストやイニシアチブを支援するセクターのあり方に、どのような変化が必要なのか、という側面から探ってみてもいいかもしれません。草の根のアーティストのイニシアチブは、物事の序列の中でかなり下のほうに置かれていることがありますし、また、制度が個人をバーサタイズするという側面にも取り組まなければなりません、草

I don't know enough about the, I'm sorry coughing, or maybe from projects that you've taken part in what were their sort of ways in which grassroots artists initiatives were being particularly championed or supported?

申し訳ありませんが、咳き込んでしまって......あるいは、あなたが参加されたプロジェクトの中で、草の根アーティストのイニシアチブが特に支持されたり、支援されたりしていたのはどのような方法だったのでしょうか？

Yeah well I mean I'm just always blown away by all the different arts groups that I work with through the country and at the moment up north amazing groups of people who are bringing communities together and I think, and the Arts Council is giving money to places now much more than they used to, to those amazing people who are working so hard to make changes because they are just right in there with the community and they really know, when I've worked with all these different groups they know everybody and everything, all the young artists and all the thing and it's, you know they bring everybody together and that is a massive community and then they go further out as well so I think I'm not answering this question, but I don't know I'm just really, I find it very emotional about the commitment that all these different groups of people that I work with have and the energy that they have and the time they spend and it really is changing communities where there's a lot of unemployment and lots of other things happening and then all these people come together and when they come together there's such a sort of joy because we're all coming together on a different level, a level that they weren't expecting that they would enjoy and then they enjoy more than they think they do and then that continues.

アーツカウンシルは、以前よりもずっと多くの場所に資金を提供している、アーツカウンシルは、以前よりもずっと多くの場所に資金を提供している。彼らはコミュニティーの中にいて、本当に何でも知っている、私が一緒に働いているさまざまなグループの人たちが持っているコミットメントや、彼らが持っているエネルギー、彼らが費やしている時間について、私はとても感情的になっているんだ。

But I mean I obviously just jump in and out of these situations more, but I think that's a good thing as well, so I just sort of, but I take loads from it as well, I learn all the time, I'm working at the moment in Germany and one of the biggest things that I think is one of the biggest issues is communities are separated out into different age groups depending on what your, where you are in your life and the biggest thing I've found is when you can put different people together and how that enriches everything rather than keeping people separate and so older people just love being around young people and young people get lots out of that as well and I did a word workshop with little ones to their 70s or 80s and actually when you read the words that people all wanted in their lives they were all the same, it was all about being kind to each other, sharing and that was over all the age groups, so we all, because I think recently we've been all these Gen Z, this, that, we're all separated out and actually I think the big thing is that we come together a bit more and forget about age, just think about the human being, the person you are rather than judging people by what they, you know, what you think, what, they're out, you know, on their age, I mean, you know.

でも、私は明らかにそういう状況に飛び込んだり飛び出したりするだけで、それもいいことだと思う、年配の人たちは若い人たちと一緒にいるのが大好きだし、若い人たちもそこから多くのことを得ることができる、最近、私たちはZ世代と呼ばれるような、あれやこれやと、みんなバラバラになってしまっている。

Thank you Maura, that's a lovely answer in terms of the, just the emphasis on coming together people of different backgrounds, intersectionality, kind of working together, which again, you know, is reflective of the value of strengthening communities and Amy are there any aspects that you think, any changes in the sector?

マウラ、ありがとう。異なる背景を持つ人々が集まること、交差性、協力し合うことに重点を置いているという点で、とても素晴らしい答えだ。

Yeah, well, I mean, I was just going to reflect on it from the perspective of, like for me it's too difficult to get the money and then it's too difficult to evaluate and report back on the money, so like there's a cycle about how the funding is moving through the system and at the moment the process that you have to go through to get the minimum grant of like £10,000, £15,000 is incredibly difficult and then when you deliver the project you then have to report back on it and I think if you're a grassroots artist, number one, a lot of, when I was at ACE, I had a brilliant experience there, mainly because I was working, I've grown up in the East of England, I was director of the East of England office and it was a really brilliant opportunity actually to kind of like get in my car because there's no trains in the East of England and drive around and like, and I formed really brilliant relationships with places and I can remember working in Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth and the way I used to get their councillors, who were all on a very, very different political spectrum to me, you know, we were very far apart but there was things that we could agree on about what those places deserved in terms of infrastructure, in terms of investment and so we would just coalesce around those things and if I could get Lowestoft to do something, I knew I could get Great Yarmouth to do it because there was a power in communities wanting to be the best versions of themselves and be able to say well, you know, we're better than them down the road, you know, and so we sort of used to lean into that but they never wanted £15,000, what they wanted was 10, 500 quid grants that they could give out really easily without a huge amount of like bureaucracy and red tape around those grants and so we used to sort of try and find ways in which we could find different, I mean 10 years ago there were a few down the back of the sofa pots of cash at the Arts Council that you could kind of like, you know, all right and you give it to the council and then they give it to the local community action group, the community and actually things like that then became programmes like Creative People and Places and you know, big Arts Council schemes but I would even say those, they just by their very nature have become too complicated again because they become big, they're successful, they become a big amount of money and then that big amount of money requires significant justification of why the government should give the Arts Council that money to give out, so you just end up in this kind of cycle where people who are working directly with communities who need small amounts of money to get small projects off the ground that have huge impact can't get at that money and I think one of the things I'm really interested in is how we change, I can't change that application process, I tried for 10 years at the Arts Council, I was not successful but I think in terms of figuring out what evaluation, what social impact evaluation looks like in a way that isn't incredibly academic and incredibly, you know, leaving too many people behind because of the language that's being used around it, like how do you ask people if they feel better because they've been part of a particular group for six months in a really simple way and how do you give that to people that are running those community groups with those small grants so that they can just report back and because I think you can then lobby the funders, you can lobby the Paul Hamlin's, the Esme's, the Arts Council to say could you accept something simpler if we come up with an agreed language, so that's where I feel there's change that could be made, stop focusing on the money side because I think that will come because I think A's do get it and there's an understanding that needs to change and this review might change that as well but what's the other end, the reporting, how might we change that?

つまり、資金を得るのが難しすぎるし、その資金を評価して報告するのも難しすぎる、私はイングランド東部で育ったので、イングランド東部オフィスのディレクターをしていました。イングランド東部には電車がないので、車に乗ってあちこちドライブするのは本当に素晴らしい機会でした、ローストフトに何かをさせることができれば、グレート・ヤーマスにもさせることができるとわかっていたからだ、でも、彼らが求めていたのは、1万5000ポンドではなく、官僚主義やお役所的な手続きなしに、本当に簡単に交付できる10ポンドや500ポンドの助成

Yeah thank you Amy, yeah and that does again relate to aspects of inclusion and equity as well as process and many other things, yeah, and John are there any sector changes that you feel need to happen to support grassroots artists?

エイミー、ありがとう。そして、それはまた、インクルージョンとエクイティの側面、そしてプロセスや他の多くのことに関係しているんだ。ジョンさんは、草の根アーティストをサポートするために必要だと感じているセクターの変化はありますか？

Well I recently got my DYCP grant for the first time and I would have never been able to do that without the access worker and in fact kind of all grants, as someone who's grown up working class, even just the idea that you can put together this text and submit it for money and you don't have to go and labour it, so you don't have to go and exchange like physical labour for or a painting or a product for money, I think that needs to be explained to people a bit better, like because of, there's a lot of people that don't know about, like when I went to school they taught us, you know, in order to make money from art, you know, you kind of had to die and then your work would be valuable, that's, and so for me as a teenager I thought well I'm not doing that, you know, I ended up going to prison which is pretty close but like but that, I think that that idea that, even I've got a friend who now is a talent scout but they wrote a letter to themselves when they were 18 and they said that they wanted to be an actor but that was the only job in the industry they knew, you know, so I think that, I think there needs to be maybe in secondary school or at least in colleges some information about how you might be able to do that because it took me a very long time and a lot of help, a lot of help, but I would have never been able to do that on my own, to cost every hour, that's something that I've never attempted so I think just access to that information and the grant workers, the one that I had was great so, and time, you know, time, if I did a project in Jaywick which I was kind of shipped out to Jaywick as this cultural sort of feeder in a way and I thought it was so problematic to me that you've got this stranger that's got an art degree that's going to land in the most deprived area in Britain and I'm going to give them something but the fact is these people have already got what they need, they just, it's more about the shift in perspective that a lot of what working class people have that they're not going to amount to that much ultimately, their aspirations aren't there, so when you can, but so it's quite, I think you have to be really sensitive when you're working with groups of marginalized people because sometimes the money's given to the wrong people ultimately and there's ego present, you know, and I think that if there was a person that was given money, like you were saying, that it should go directly to the community, not necessarily even the artist that's there, and for instance the South London Gallery have a building called the Art Block, right, they go, when they get their money they say to the kids there, what do you want to spend it on, that's how it should be, and they don't have to explain it, one year they wanted to make a swimming pool in there, you know, why not?

最近、初めてDYCPの助成金を得たんだけど、アクセス・ワーカーがいなかったら、絶対にできなかっただろうし、実際、労働者階級で育った人間としては、助成金というのはすべて、文章を作成して提出すればお金になる、私が学校に通っていた頃は、芸術でお金を稼ぐためには、死ぬ必要があり、そうすれば作品が価値あるものになると教えられていました、だから、10代の頃の僕は、そんなことはしたくないと思ったし、結局刑務所に入ることになったんだけど、でも、その考え方は、今タレント・スカウトをしている友達がいるんだけど、彼らは18歳の

The Art Block is amazing, I worked on the first one for the Art Block and it was just, the kids were just so amazing and it really, they were really trying to get that transition where the little kids will play with art, but when they get to 14, 15, instead of joining drug gangs and things like that, they carry on and then they can be artists, and I really do, South London Gallery are really, it's amazing that the Art Block is, great, yeah, yeah, thank you John, and again it shows there's a stark difference between the sort of bottom-down approach to institutions and organisations, looking at individuals and then individuals looking up at institutions and organisations, when actually we're in the ecosystem with lots of constellations.

アート・ブロックは素晴らしいよ。僕はアート・ブロックの最初の作品に携わったんだけど、子供たちが本当に素晴らしくて、小さな子供たちがアートで遊びながら、14歳、15歳になったときに、ドラッグ・ギャングに入ったりすることなく、そのままアーティストになれるような、そんな移行を実現しようとしていたんだ、サウス・ロンドン・ギャラリーのアート・ブロックは本当に素晴らしい。

I remember when I was first setting out, I sort of looked at all the organisations and the people that ran them and I tried to map out a sort of ecosystem to sort of work out where my path might be, and I did that as someone, you know, not of much means and no kind of lineage within the arts, and I guess there aren't that many organisations that are looking at who are the freelancers and the artists of note or of promise or who are merging talent who could be part of our ecosystem, so I guess there needs to be more of that kind of circular constellations of mapping, I think, in order to have more equity.

私が最初に活動を始めたとき、すべての組織とそれを運営する人たちを見て、自分の進むべき道を探るために、ある種のエコシステムを描き出そうとしたのを覚えている、フリーランサーや注目すべきアーティスト、将来有望なアーティスト、あるいは才能を融合しているアーティストの誰が私たちのエコシステムの一部となり得るのかに目を向けている組織はそれほど多くないと思います。

So I think, thank you so much for your contributions so far, I think we're going to open it up to the floor and I think there's a roving mic going round, and so does anyone have a question for the speakers?

それでは、これまでのご投稿に感謝し、フロアに公開したいと思います。

Thank you very much for your presentations.

発表ありがとうございました。

I'd like to ask a question to John really because you mentioned that you did some crime diversion stuff.

ジョンに質問したいのですが、あなたは犯罪の陽動作戦を行ったとおっしゃっていましたね。

Many years ago I worked for the Home Office, I visited lots of prisons and sometimes the artwork in prisons were quite impressive.

何年も前、私は内務省に勤めていて、たくさんの刑務所を訪れた。

I remember seeing a guy who had done something really bad, he'd shot somebody who had tried to stop to pull down the building that he put up in the wrong place, and he was in prison for a long time, and he used to paint very much in the style of Monet, and if Monet hadn't existed he would have been Monet.

モネが存在しなかったら、彼はモネになっていただろうね。

So my question really is, how successful is your work in diverting people from the criminal justice system?

そこで私が本当に聞きたいのは、人々を刑事司法制度から迂回させるという点で、あなたの仕事はどの程度成功しているのかということだ。

Are you having an impact on reducing reoffending?

再犯を減らす効果はありますか？

I am, but that doesn't mean that there are casualties in it as well.

でも、だからといって、そこに犠牲者が出るわけでもない。

I do lose people that get recalled, like in this current project I've lost two people to being recalled, and even the way that system is set up, if you breach your license conditions and you get sent back to prison, that's quite a big percentage of our prison population, and our prison population is over 99% full right now, and something terrible will happen very soon.

このプロジェクトでも2人をリコールで失っている。もしライセンス条件に違反し、刑務所に送り返されるようなことがあれば、刑務所の収容人員のかなりの割合を占めることになる。

There are already several people who have been recalled, and they will get all of that information.

すでに何人かがリコールされており、彼らはその情報をすべて手に入れることになる。

Every day we ask the gentlemen that join us, but unfortunately you can't prove that these men aren't committing crimes, so you can only quantify through testimony in that respect, because they might have just got better at evading capture, and that's what you will be faced with.

しかし、残念ながら、彼らが犯罪を犯していないということを証明することはできない。

At the moment I'm working quite a lot voluntarily, because I want this play to be amazing, because of next year that funding isn't guaranteed, so if anybody wants to come to see a play in Stevenage on the 9th of July, am I allowed to do this?

来年は資金が保証されないので、もし7月9日にスティーブニッジで芝居を見たいという人がいたら、私はそれをやってもいいのでしょうか？

On the 9th of July there's a play that's been written by a group of called Something Inside, and I'm sure we'll be able to get the details to you somehow, but my answer is ultimately there isn't really an easy way of doing that, it's through testimony.

月9日に『サムシング・インサイド』というグループによって書かれた劇があります。詳細は何とかして皆さんにお伝えできると思いますが、私の答えは、最終的には簡単な方法はありません。

I've had that problem for over a decade of trying to prove that these things work, there is enough literature to say that it does, and I had a meeting with Arts Council recently, because we're trying to pair universities with prisons at the moment, because of why isn't every prison a creative hub?

アーツカウンシルとは最近ミーティングをしたんだが、なぜすべての刑務所がクリエイティブ・ハブにならないのか？

When you go to prison you don't really see people getting better, you don't see the system making them better anyway, you see people taking control of their lives, often through finding a passion, and being able to make art in a place like that where you can reinvent yourself, and maybe at the end get some praise, which you probably haven't had for a very long time, that's when the stirrings might happen, and that's when you could maybe think that maybe I could contribute something, whether it be a pretty picture or a nice poem, whatever it is, that could heal a relationship, which then when you leave, maybe your family will let you stay under their roof, which then would save money in the long run.

刑務所に入れば、人が良くなるのを見ることはない。制度が人を良くすることもない。人が自分の人生をコントロールできるようになるのを見るんだ。多くの場合、情熱を見いだすことによってね、そうすれば、きれいな絵であれ、素敵な詩であれ、それが何であれ、人間関係を癒すことができる。

But don't you think with all these things, with evaluations, everybody wants it to be instant, and you could do like a workshop for a six-year-old, and then 20 years later they go to art school or something just because they went to that workshop, but at that time they didn't, you know, so I think with all these things, sometimes things have to embed in a lot longer, people have to find their own time and space for that actual, but what you've done is you've shown them another way of looking at things, another way of seeing things, and that sparked that, you know, that thought process, isn't it?

歳児のためのワークショップを開催して、20年後にそのワークショップに参加したことを理由に美術学校か何かに進学することもある、でも、あなたがしたことは、子どもたちに別のものの見方、別のものの見方を示したということ。

That's what the art class can do in a prison, because most people in prison as well have had terrible experiences of education, so they go into an art room and they're already, you know, tense because they're in prison, and then if you put a sheet of paper in front of men that are in prison, and they're like, well, I'm going to be in jail for this, I might kick off, then that piece of paper becomes a vehicle for, you know, a much calmer way of communicating and saying the unsayable.

刑務所の中で美術の授業ができるのはそのためです。刑務所にいるほとんどの人は、教育についてひどい経験をしているので、美術室に入ると、彼らはすでに緊張しています。

Marag, you mentioned the power of intergenerational relationships for reinforcing communities.

マラグ、あなたはコミュニティを強化するための世代間の関係の力について言及した。

I have a question in relation to society, on the role, not necessarily for you the question, but the role of art for breaking down silos across communities.

社会との関連で質問があるのですが、必ずしもあなたへの質問というわけではありませんが、コミュニティ間のサイロ（隔たり）をなくすためのアートの役割についてです。

地域社会全体のサイロ化を打破する。

誰でもいいって言ったじゃない。

I could answer it from just in terms of Battersea, because one of the things that we're doing a lot of thinking about at the moment is that Battersea is in an old town hall that was built in the 1890s and it has a long history of being a sort of place for radical thought and radical speech and radical politics, and the only ever communist MP in the UK's seat was at Battersea Town Hall, and suffragettes met at Battersea Town Hall.

今、私たちがいろいろ考えていることのひとつに、バタシーには1890年代に建てられた古いタウンホールがあり、急進的な思想、急進的な言論、急進的な政治の場として長い歴史を持っているということがあります。

It has this wonderful, wonderful history to it, so when you're there as an art centre, and we're just custodians of that place, you've got to sort of move into that space of our main performance space is the old council chamber, and it has the nays and the yays over the top of the door as the eyes and the nose as you go in, and so it's a place for debate, and so we have to sort of challenge ourselves all the time about how do you position yourself as an organisation which is there for creative expression and freedom of speech and make sure that you're able to safely hold both sides of a debate, which is what the history of that building always was, and I think that's really difficult for an art centre to do, really difficult, because in the main there are groups of society that you naturally align with, many, and then there are groups in society that you naturally don't align with, and so as an organisation, how you navigate that, but I genuinely believe if you do it really carefully and with a lot of thought and you bring voices from both, you know, and you put, sorry I'm really going off off piste, but I think you've got to pick your debate, like let's not try and solve absolutely everything all at once, but how might we come together to talk about some very specific, a very specific issue in a way that's really well held, really well facilitated, and everybody gets listened to, and I think, I feel that buildings in particular have a role to play there, and that doesn't have to be a purpose-built arts building, but spaces in communities where people feel like they can come through the front door, they can buy a cup of coffee, and they can sit in a room and have a conversation, and so that for me just feels like, and I think more personally, I feel too many arts organisations will immediately step forward and side with something very particular, or sort of wear their heart on their sleeve, and what you're doing when you do that is actually you're potentially excluding a whole raft of conversations that then get more and more siloed, you get more and more conflict, and actually I feel like arts institutions need to be put, need to be the spaces where those things can happen, even though it's difficult.

アートセンターとして、そして私たちがその場所の管理者としてそこにいるとき、私たちはそのスペースに移動しなければなりません。私たちのメイン・パフォーマンス・スペースは旧議事堂で、中に入るとドアの上に目と鼻のように反対派と賛成派が描かれています、だから私たちは、創造的な表現と言論の自由のために存在する組織として、どのように自らを位置づけ、議論の両面を安全に保つことができるようにするかについて、常に自問自答しなければならない、アートセンターにとって、それは本当に難しいことだと思います。なぜなら、社会には、あなた

Yeah, thank you very much to all the panellists and to Melanie for sharing so successfully.

パネリストの皆さん、そしてメラニー、ありがとうございました。

I wanted to ask a question in regards to the support for the grassroots organisations.

草の根組織への支援について質問したい。

One of the challenges, as you all said, was funding, and when we make the case about funding for the arts, for the sector in general, in the country we always talk about how much the sector contributes to the economy, all these billions of pounds that we contribute, but we don't, I think John, you touched a little bit about this, about the amount of people that volunteer or work very lowly pay in the sector, so we hardly hear about them, and we are the ones who are actually making the sector function, so I wanted to hear your thoughts on that.

皆さんがおっしゃったように、課題のひとつは資金調達です。私たちが芸術部門全般の資金調達について主張するとき、国内では芸術部門が経済にどれだけ貢献しているか、私たちが貢献している何十億ポンドという額はいつも話題にのぼりますが、ボランティアや低賃金で働いている人々の多さについては、ジョンさんは少し触れていたと思いますが、私たちはほとんど耳にしません。

Well, I think as an artist you're kind of never off the clock, so if I was to work out how much labour goes into certain projects, it would be less than minimum wage that I'm taking home, and there may be a consolation in loving what I do, but that doesn't kind of wash, you know, I should still be paid for the time that I've put into the project, but I guess I've tried to find sponsors and things like that, which has ended quite awkwardly, to be honest.

だから、あるプロジェクトにどれだけの労力が費やされているかを計算すると、私が家に持って帰っているのは最低賃金以下だろう。自分のやっていることを愛しているという慰めはあるかもしれないが、それでも、プロジェクトに費やした時間に対する報酬は支払われるべきだ。

I don't know, I don't, if I'm entirely honest, you know, I've been making, I started my BA, I left prison in 2010 and I started my BA straight from prison, I actually had day release for my interview, and so I've been doing this for 15 years, and I'd say only in the last one, maybe 18 months, has it actually made sense for me to do.

2010年に刑務所を出て、刑務所から直接学士号を取得し、面接のために釈放された。

The rest of the time I've been, it's been passion projects, you know, and that idea of success, and then even peeking behind a red velvet curtain maybe, and seeing that maybe that's not what I want, because there's a lot of, like I touched on before, there are people that get celebrated and bankrolled, who make quite sort of time-stamped work, or like work that has a very short trend, like an expiry date, that doesn't kind of, that is just a luxury product, ultimately, they seem to do really well, but I'm doing another project at the moment at Somerset House, I'm going to plug again, sorry, that on the 8th of June there's an artist's fair, and as part of the artist's fair, I'm asking people to tell me what their issues are in the art world, and we're going to open up these ballot boxes that I have plotted around, and talk about that, I think one of the big problems is that on the surface people want to look like it's okay, and not that they are, you know, I know people are skipping most, because especially if you're living in London, it's not easy, you know, I don't know, I don't have an answer for that, unfortunately, I think that, and I'm certainly not resigned to like this idea of the poor artist either, like I'm not doing that, so somehow I find a way, and I've been very lucky that I grew up in London, I've got a support network here, so I could go and crash, you know, but there were times when I'd have to go and crash at my mum's house, and my brother's, and things like that, and I've been really lucky in that sense, if I studied, if I was from somewhere else, if I was from Birmingham, and I came to London to study, I wouldn't have been able to sustain the art practice in the same way, I would have had a, you know, a big percentage of my attention going towards earning money, that I could kind of live a, you know, a lovely artist's life for a bit, I'm not lovely as, you know, a sort of, you know, the tortured artist, whatever, I could do that poetic kind of life for a bit, but it doesn't last.

それ以外の時間は、情熱的なプロジェクトや、成功のアイデア、そして赤いベルベットのカーテンの向こう側を覗いてみて、もしかしたらそれは私が望んでいることではないのかもしれない、と気づいたりすることです。先ほども触れたように、有名になり、資金を得る人たちの中には、タイムスタンプ的な作品や、非常に短いトレンド、賞味期限のようなものを作る人たちがいます、6月8日にアーティストのフェアがあるんだけど、その一環として、アートの世界で何が問題なのかを教えてほしいんだ、大きな問題の一つは、人々が表面的には問題ないように見せ

Thank you John, we've got one last question here.

ジョン、ありがとう。最後にもうひとつ質問させてください。

I'm interested in this small pots of money to fund community initiatives, I mean community chests are great, but the problem is we have a sort of local authorities who aren't providing that money, it's local councils, that's my, it'd been my experience in the past, who fund quality of life initiatives, is this an action probably from this day, we need to be pressing local authorities to adequately fund quality of life initiatives?

コミュニティーのイニシアチブに資金を提供するための小さなポットについて興味があります。つまり、共同募金は素晴らしいのですが、問題はその資金を提供していない地方自治体があるということです。

No, but I think it's a real, from in the 10 years that I was at ACE, the decline in local authorities, and not just about their money, but about the expertise they have in them as well, oh the amount of calls that we used to get, I said, oh Ipswich County Council decided to move the Arts Department into the Environmental Department, and you're like, what, why?

私がACEに在籍していた10年間で、地方自治体が衰退していったのは事実だと思います。自治体の資金だけでなく、自治体が持っている専門知識も衰退していったのです。

Well, you know, there's lots of expertise, and it's like, is there?

まあ、専門的な知識はたくさんあるし、そうなのかな？

And just the sort of, it always used to strike me that you, there was a lack of sort of facilitation in local authorities to understand how they could empower people in the communities who already knew what needed to be done, to do those things by just giving them small pots of money, which in comparison to what they were having to spend on the bins and, you know, everything else, would be really, really tiny and incredibly impactful, and you spend an awful lot of time at the Arts Council convincing local authorities to keep their money on the table.

ゴミ箱やその他もろもろに使っていたお金に比べたら、本当に微々たるもので、驚くほどインパクトのあるものだ。