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  • AND NOW AN ADVISER TO JOE BIDEN,

  • RON KLAIN, AND "NEW YORK TIMES"

  • WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT PETER

  • BAKER.

  • PETER BAKER, I DON'T KNOW WHY I

  • WAS SHOCKED BUT I WAS TO SEE

  • TRUMP GO AFTER FAUCI, AND IT IS

  • A SIMILAR PATTERN.

  • FOX NEWS PRIMETIME ANCHORS WARM

  • UP THE WATER FOR HIM AND HE

  • DIVES RIGHT IN.

  • ANY FALLOUT TODAY ON THAT ATTACK

  • AGAINST FAUCI'S TESTIMONY BEFORE

  • CONGRESS YESTERDAY?

  • >> WELL LOOK, I THINK YOU'RE

  • RIGHT, DR. FAUCI HAS CREDIBILITY

  • WITH THE PUBLIC THAT THE

  • PRESIDENT DOESN'T.

  • ALL THE POLLS SHOW THAT MANY,

  • MANY MORE AMERICANS TRUST WHAT

  • DR. FAUCI IS TELLING THEM THAN

  • TRUST WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS

  • TELLING THEM.

  • I THINK THAT FOR ONE THING IT

  • IRRITATES THE PRESIDENT AND FOR

  • ANOTHER THING DR. FAUCI IS THE

  • ONE SORT OF STANDING IN THE WAY

  • OF THE APPROACH THAT THE

  • PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE TO TAKE

  • WHICH IS A SPEEDY AND WHOLESALE

  • RE-OPENING OF THE COUNTRY AS

  • FAST AS POSSIBLE.

  • NOW, THE PRESIDENT HAS TO MAKE

  • DECISIONS BASED ON NOT JUST WHAT

  • ONE SET OF ADVISERS TELL HIM,

  • WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S AIDES

  • WOULD TELL YOU HE HAS TO LOOK AT

  • THE BIG PICTURE, THE WHOLE

  • PICTURE, THE ECONOMY AND THE

  • IMPACT ON JOBS, UNEMPLOYED, ON

  • POVERTY AND BUSINESSES.

  • THE PRESIDENT HAS TO TAKE ALL

  • THESE THINGS INTO ACCOUNT WHICH

  • IS PROBABLY TRUE OF ANY

  • PRESIDENT BUT DR. FAUCI AT THIS

  • POINT HAS CREDIBILITY THAT

  • NOBODY ELSE HAS AND IF PEOPLE

  • OUT THERE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE

  • VIRUS IS UNDER CONTROL, THE

  • ECONOMY WILL HAVE A HARD TIME

  • RE-OPENING TO BEGIN WITH.

  • PEOPLE WON'T WANT TO GO TO WORK,

  • GO TO SCHOOL, GO SHOPPING, GO TO

  • RESTAURANTS.

  • SO IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT, I

  • THINK, FOR ANY PRESIDENT IN THIS

  • SITUATION TO EARN THE TRUST OF

  • THE PEOPLE SO THEY CAN FEEL

  • CONFIDENT THE DECISIONS HE'S

  • MAKING HERE BASED ON THEIR BEST

  • INTERESTS.

  • >> RON KLAIN, I'M GUESSING

  • YOU'RE NOT -- YOU'RE SKEPTICAL

  • THAT HE'S MAKING DECISIONS BASED

  • ON PEOPLE'S BEST INTEREST, BUT

  • PETER BAKER IS RIGHT.

  • PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO GO BACK

  • IF THEY THINK THERE'S DANGER TO

  • THEIR LIVES OR THEIR FAMILY'S

  • LIVES TO DO SO.

  • THAT'S NOT A GOOD ECONOMIC PLAN

  • OR A PRUDENT FAMILY WELLNESS

  • PLAN.

  • WHERE DO YOU THINK THINGS ARE

  • RIGHT NOW WITH THIS TESTIMONY

  • TODAY FROM DR. BRIGHT WHO MY

  • COLLEAGUE, GARRETT HAAKE,

  • DESCRIBED PERFECTLY.

  • HE'S A GOVERNMENT TECHNO KRAT.

  • I W0RKDORKED IN GOVERNMENT.

  • YOU WORKED IN GOVERNMENT.

  • HE'S SOMEONE, TO THE DEGREE THAT

  • HE'S PARTISAN, HE'S A SCIENTIST.

  • HIS PARTY IS THE DATA.

  • HIS LOYALTY TO THE EVIDENCE AND

  • HIS FRUSTRATION IS THAT WE

  • DIDN'T USE THE EVIDENCE OR THE

  • DATA TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ABOUT

  • THE COMING PANDEMIC.

  • >> THE ECONOMY IS CLOSED TODAY

  • NOT BECAUSE OF TONY FAUCI BUT

  • BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP'S

  • INCOMPETENCE AND LAZINESS.

  • TONY FAUCI STOOD UP OVER A MONTH

  • AGO IN THE WHITE HOUSE BRIEFING

  • ROOM AND SAID HERE'S THE ROAD

  • MAP TO RE-OPENING THE ECONOMY.

  • THAT WAS GET THE NUMBER OF CASES

  • DOWN, GET THE TESTING IN PLACE,

  • GET PEOPLE WEARING MASKS.

  • TRUMP'S DONE NONE OF THOSE

  • THINGS.

  • IF WE'RE NOT RE-OPENING, IT'S

  • NOT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING TONY

  • FAUCI SAID.

  • IT'S BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP'S

  • FAILURE TO ACT ON THAT ADVICE,

  • INSTEAD TO BELIEVE HE CAN DENY

  • AND TWEET AWAY THIS PROBLEM.

  • THIS IS ON HIM.

  • RICK BRIGHT, I WORKED WITH RICK

  • BRIGHT ON THE EBOLA RESPONSE.

  • HE'S A CONSUMMATE PROFESSIONAL,

  • AND I THINK THAT WHAT YOU'RE

  • SEEING HERE, HIS TESTIMONY, IS

  • JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW

  • WARNINGS WERE MADE AND WARNINGS

  • WERE IGNORED.

  • WE'RE IN THIS MESS BECAUSE THE

  • WARNINGS WERE GIVEN AND THE

  • ACTIONS WEREN'T TAKEN.

  • THAT'S BACKWARDS LOOKING,

  • NICOLLE.

  • THE PROBLEM IS RIGHT NOW THEY'RE

  • STILL NOT BEING FIXED AND THESE

  • PROBLEMS CONTINUE AND THAT'S WHY

  • WE'RE IN THIS LOGGER HEADS

  • BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND DR.

  • FAUCI.

  • >> DR. WEN, YOU HAVE WRITTEN

  • RECENTLY IN AN OP-ED THAT YOU

  • THINK WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT PHASE

  • OF THIS AS A PUBLIC, THAT WE'VE

  • MISSED A LOT OF THE

  • OPPORTUNITIES FOR CONTAINMENT.

  • TALK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE AS A

  • COUNTRY.

  • >> BACK TO WHAT RON WAS JUST

  • SAYING, WE ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IT

  • TAKES IN ORDER TO RE-OPEN

  • SAFELY.

  • THE WHITE HOUSE OUTLINED THEIR

  • OWN CRITERIA AND GUIDELINES FOR

  • DOING SO.

  • IF WE KNOW WHAT IT TAKES AND

  • WE'RE KNOWINGLY IGNORING THESE

  • GUIDELINES, THEN WE'RE IN

  • ESSENCE SAYING THAT WE'RE GIVING

  • UP ON CONTAINMENT, THAT WE HAD A

  • CHANCE TO CONTAIN THIS VIRUS AND

  • SAVE LIVES BUT WE'RE NOT GOING

  • TO DO IT.

  • I FIND IT HARD THE SAY BECAUSE I

  • CAN'T QUITE BELIEVE THAT OUR

  • GOVERNMENT IS DOING THIS, BUT IF

  • WE ARE, THEN AT LEAST BE HONEST

  • ABOUT IT.

  • AT LEAST ADMIT THAT WE ARE

  • GIVING UP ON THE STRATEGY THAT

  • WE ALL THOUGHT WAS THE CASE,

  • THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTAIN THE

  • INFECTION, WE'RE GOING TO TEST

  • AND TRACE AND ISOLATE OUR WAY

  • OUT OF THIS.

  • IF THAT'S NO LONGER THE PLAN,

  • LET'S BE HONEST ABOUT IT AND

  • LET'S MOVE ON TO WHAT WE KNOW IN

  • PUBLIC HEALTH TO BE HARM

  • REDUCTION.

  • IF THERE'S A BEHAVIOR THAT'S

  • RISKY AND WE DECIDED TO DO IT

  • ANYWAY, THE BEST THAT WE CAN DO

  • IS REDUCE THE HARM BECAUSE

  • THAT'S OUR LAST AND BEST CHANCE

  • TO REDUCE THE LEVEL OF

  • INFECTIONS AND SAVE LIVES.

  • I CAN'T BELIEVE WE'RE HERE BUT

  • SINCE WE ARE, LET'S TAKE THOSE

  • NECESSARY STEPS AND FIGURE OUT

  • WHAT ARE THE THINGS WE CAN DO TO

  • REDUCE RISK TO EMPLOYEES, TO

  • STUDENTS, TO EVERYONE SO THAT WE

  • CAN AT LEAST TRY TO PROTECT

  • THOSE AROUND US.

  • >> DR. WEN, YOU HAVE TO TELL US

  • WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE BECAUSE

  • YOU LOOK AT THESE PICTURES OF

  • PEOPLE FLOODING INTO THE BARS IN

  • WISCONSIN AFTER THAT STATE

  • SUPREME COURT OVERRULED OR

  • OUTLAWED THE STAY-AT-HOME

  • ORDERS.

  • WHAT ARE THOSE THINGS?

  • HE DESCRIBED HIS STATE AS THE

  • WILD, WILD WEST.

  • WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT REDUCE

  • HARM?

  • >> I WORRY WHEN I SEE THESE

  • PICTURES.

  • ACTUALLY, I SEE IN THESE

  • PICTURES POTENTIAL PATIENTS WHO

  • MIGHT COME INTO MY ER AND THEIR

  • FAMILY MEMBERS WHO THEY'RE GOING

  • TO BE INFECTING.

  • THIS IS ACTUALLY WHY WE RELY ON

  • THE CDC FOR THESE GUIDELINES,

  • THESE GUIDELINES THAT ARE NOT

  • YET BEING ISSUED.

  • WE RELY ON THESE GUIDELINES TO

  • SAY, LOOK, WE DON'T THINK THIS

  • IS A GOOD IDEA FOR RESTAURANTS

  • AND BARS TO BE OPEN, BUT IF

  • THEY'RE GOING TO BE OPEN, ARE

  • THERE SOME THINGS THAT WE CAN

  • DO, ARE THERE THINGS LIKE

  • CHECKING THE VENTILATION SYSTEM.

  • ARE THERE NEW STANDARDS FOR

  • EXAMPLE FOR PUTTING UP

  • PLEXIGLASS SHIELDS, FOR EVERYONE

  • TO WEAR MASKS AS MUCH AS

  • POSSIBLE, SPACING THINGS OUT SIX

  • FEET APART, START WITH OPENING

  • OUTDOORS SPACES AND THEN INDOOR

  • SPACES.

  • IF DAY CAMPS AND SCHOOLS ARE

  • GOING TO BE OPEN, EVEN IF IT'S

  • NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO, HOW

  • CAN WE KEEP IT AS SAFE AS WE

  • CAN.

  • >> RON KLAIN, THERE'S A LITTLE

  • WAR OF WORDS GOING ON ABOUT WHAT

  • THE MEANING OF A PLAYBOOK IS,

  • AND YOU TWEETED THIS.

  • I'VE HAD PEOPLE TWEETING ME IN

  • THE LAST 24 HOURS.

  • DID THE PANDEMIC PLAYBOOK REALLY

  • EXIST?

  • WAS IT REALLY A CLEARLY MARKED

  • PLAYBOOK?

  • WOULD IT HAVE HELPED.

  • HERS THE COVER AND THE TABLE OF

  • CONTENTS.

  • YOU DECIDE.

  • PLEASE EXPLAIN.

  • >> THE OTHER DAY SENATOR

  • McCONNELL SAID THAT THE OBAMA

  • ADMINISTRATION HAD NOT LEFT A

  • GAME PLAN FOR THE TRUMP

  • ADMINISTRATION FOR DEALING WITH

  • SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND IN

  • FACT, WE HAD LEFT A PLAYBOOK.

  • IT WAS EASY TO TELL THAT'S WHAT

  • IT WAS BECAUSE IT SAID ON THE

  • FRONT IN BIG RED LETTERS,

  • PLAYBOOK.

  • THEN IT HAD ALL THE STEPS YOU

  • NEEDED TO TAKE, 69 PAGES OF

  • STEPS OF WHAT TO DO WHEN THE

  • THREAT OF A PANDEMIC LOOMED.

  • NOW, WHAT'S INTERESTING IS,

  • NICOLLE, FIRST EVERYONE SAID NO

  • SUCH DOCUMENT EXISTED.

  • TODAY THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS

  • SECRETARY SAID THERE WAS THIS

  • DOCUMENT BUT IT WASN'T THAT GOOD

  • AND WE HAD OUR OWN DOCUMENT

  • WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FACT THAT

  • TRUMP'S POSITION UNTIL NOW HAS

  • BEEN NO ONE SAW THIS COMING.

  • NOW THEIR POSITION IS WE SAW IT