not just in the book but also on your podcast,

about the elections in November.

How much confidence do you think the American people can have

in a fair election right now?

And I do think, you know, sometimes we talk about it,

it's a little dangerous, because obviously

the Trump administration, based on the outcome,

will also speak to the idea that it was not fair.

So, how do you frame it so that it just doesn't become

a thing that everyone can sort of use

for their own best interests? -Yeah.

I mean, everyone is going to claim that it's rigged.

That was the little trick they pulled in 2016

by, you know, Trump constantly saying it was rigged.

It forced the Democrats into this position

where they're like, "It can't be rigged."

And then, when it was, in some respects rigged,

they really had nothing to say.

What they should be doing is pushing

for election transparency and integrity early.

They should be pushing for vote by mail,

because of the coronavirus,

because of the dangers we are being put in

by having physical voting.

I've been worried about the integrity of this election

for a long time, before the virus came around.

I've been worried about domestic voter suppression,

foreign interference, insecure machines,

and Trump simply refusing to leave.

My new worry is that perhaps the election will be delayed

or kind of indefinitely postponed.

Usually, even autocrats love elections.

You know, they like to have a fake election

so that they can brag about the people's love.

And I didn't think that Trump would turn down

an opportunity to do that.

But given this unprecedented public-health crisis,

it's uncertain what direction he'll go.

-Don't take this the wrong way.

There is a core pessimism to a lot of what you write about.

But do you feel as though there might be a chance

to come through this on the other side

with a changed perspective from the American people?

And where do you find optimism?

-Yeah, I mean, I don't think about it so much

in terms of optimism or pessimism

or hope or hopelessness.

I just try to do the right thing.

You know, when you have so much chaos,

when you have so much instability,

you really have to look at your morals

and your principles and how you treat people

and the kind of life that you want to lead.

And so I just try to do the right thing.

I do try to make suggestions

that are helpful in that respect.

But I'm not going to have blind faith

in eroding institutions that we've already seen fail.

You know, what Americans, I think, have recognized by now,

the institutions are only as good

as the people who are willing to uphold them.

And sometimes they have to uphold those institutions

in the face of profound and unprecedented threats.

And so far, that has not really happened.

That doesn't mean it's too late.

It doesn't mean that we're doomed.

It does mean we're in for a rough ride

and that we really have to get our bearings

and focus always on telling the truth and treating people right.

-Thank you so much, Sarah, for making time for us again.

Obviously, I wish this would be in the studio.

And hopefully, next time, it'll be in person.

Please check out Sarah's new book "Hiding in Plain Sight."

We've got a couple of copies. [ Laughs ]

And we'll be right back with more "Late Night."

Thanks, Sarah.