OUR GUEST IS A BESTSELLING AUTHOR, PHILOSOPHER, AND THE

FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN OF 'THE SCHOOL OF LIFE.'

HE'S SOMEONE WHO, WHENEVER I LISTEN TO HIM, HE MAKES ME THINK

ABOUT THE WORLD DIFFERENTLY AND HE'S HERE FROM HIS HOME IN THE

U.K.

HE IS THE BRILLIANT ALAIN DE BOTTON.

>> .I HAD SURGERY ON MY LIE LAST WEEK WHERE I HAD TO LIE WITH

FLANNEL ON MY EYE LAST WEEK AND I THINK I'VE LISTENED TO EVERY

RECORDED PIECE OF PODCASTRY YOU'VE DONE OVER THE LAST SIX OR

SEVEN YEARS.

YOUR VOICE HAS BEEN RATTLING AROUND MY HEAD.

>> I'M AMAZED YOU MADE A RECOVERY.

>> I FOUND IT DEEPLY -- T SENT YOU BACK TO REAL ILL

HEALTH, BUT THANK YOU, THAT'S GREAT.

>> James: I FOUND IT DEEPLY CALMING.

WHAT I FOUND INCREDIBLE WHEN WE TALKED BEFORE THAT THE NEWS IS

SO SCARY A LOT OF THE TIME, EVERYTHING WE'RE HEARING IS

SCARY, BUT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE QUITE AN OPTIMISTIC TAKE ON WHAT

WE'RE GOING THROUGH.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT OPTIMISM AND WHY IT'S THERE?

>> LOOK, YOU KNOW, IN A WAY, IT'S A SILVER LINING RATHER THAN

OPTIMISM.

I THINK ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT THIS TIME IS WE ARE

REDISCOVERING ONE ANOTHER.

MOST OF TIME WE ARE SO BUSY, BUT ALSO WE HAVE SUCH A FRONT.

ALL OF US PRETENDING TO BE THIS AND THAT, AND AT THIS TIME, I'M

LOVING THE NEW VULNERABILITY.

I'VE HAD SO MANY CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE JUST ABLE

BE HUMAN IN A WAY THAT VERY OFTEN THEY'RE NOT THE REST OF

THE TIME.

IT'S SUCH A GIFT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN A FRIEND CALLS YOU UP AND THEY SAY HOW ARE YOU

DOING, IF YOU'RE ABLE TO JUST TAKE THEM INTO THE REALITY OF

YOUR LIFE, THAT IS SUCH A PRESENT THAT YOU'RE GIVING THEM

BECAUSE SO MANY OF US THINK I'M UNUSUAL, I'M SO STRANGE, OTHER

PEOPLE ARE ALL HAVING A GREAT LIFE, THEY'RE HAVING A GREAT

TIME.

THIS IS A TIME WHEN THERE'S NO MORE FOMO, THERE'S NO FEAR OF

MISSING OUT DURING THE PANDEMIC.

THERE'S NO GREAT PARTY SOMEWHERE ELSE.

IT'S ALL OF US FRAGILE, SUFFERING, VULNERABLE HUMANS

TRYING TO HOLD IT TOGETHER WITH, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES FRIGHTENING

MOMENTS, AND IN A WAY, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF PRETENSES OF THE

NORMAL WORLD THAT WE'VE PUT UP AND SUFFER FROM HAVE KIND OF

GONE.

ALSO A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY TO ME THINGS LIKE I'M FEELING ANXIOUS,

IS IT GOING TO BE OKAY?

AND I ALWAYS SAY, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO CALM SOMETHING DOWN,

DON'T ALWAYS STRESS EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE GREAT AND

TERRIFIC.

LOOK AT SOME OF THE DARKNESS IN THE FACE.

YOU KNOW, THE STOIC PHILOSOPHERS OF ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME WERE

FANTASTIC BECAUSE RATHER THAN SAYING THE BAD STUFF WON'T

HAPPEN, THEY CHOSE A DIFFERENT VIEW -- LOOK AT THE BAD STUFF

AND SEE THAT IT CAN ACTUALLY BE SURVIVED.

WE ARE ALL OF US MUCH STRONGER THAN WE THINK.

WE ALWAYS THINK, IMAGINE IF I COULDN'T GO OUT, IMAGINE IF THIS

HAPPENED OR THAT HAPPENED.

WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A CRISIS AND BROADLY SPEAKING, TOUCH

WOOD, MOST OF US ARE STILL COPING.

AND EVEN IF WE'RE NOT COPING, NOT COPING'S OKAY.

SO IT WILL MAKE US STRONGER BY REVEALING WE DON'T HAVE TO BE

PERFECT.

THESE ARE NOT PERFECT DAYS BUT STILL WE'RE OKAY.

>> James: I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING THE NOTION OF

EVERYTHING DOESN'T HAVE TO BE OKAY AND IT'S OKAY TO

ACKNOWLEDGE THAT BECAUSE YOU SAID SOMETHING A COUPLE OF WEEKS

AGO ON SOMETHING I HEARD YOU DO BUT YOU SAID THAT THE BRAVE FACE

COULD BE THE BIGGEST VILLAIN OF THIS, THE NOTION OF PUTTING ON A

BRAVE FACE.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> YOU KNOW, THE BRAVE FACE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PROBLEM.

MEN HAVE HAD IT WORSE THAN WOMEN IN THIS REGARD.

IT'S ALL THIS IDEA THAT, IN ORDER TO BE A DECENT HUMAN

BEING, YOU HAVE TO BE AN UNAFRAID HUMAN BEING.

SO MOST OF US FEEL SO WEIRD BECAUSE WE HAVE ACCESS TO OUR

OWN THOUGHTS AND FEARS AND FRAGILITIES.

WE CAN ONLY GUESS WHAT'S GOING ON FROM OUTSIDE OTHER PEOPLE'S

MINDS FROM WHAT THEY TELL US AND GENERALLY THEY EDIT THE

INFORMATION HEAVILY.

A LOT OF US THINK WE'RE WEIRD BECAUSE WHAT'S GOING ON IN MY

HEAD DOESN'T SEEM TO ECHO WHAT'S GOING ON IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S

HEAD.

ALL OF US EXPERIENCE MANY OF THE SAME THINGS.

WE'RE FULL OF SELF-DOUBT, REGRET, SHAME, BUT ALSO WE HAVE

LONGINGS FOR LOVE.

WE WANT TO BE GENEROUS TOWARDS OTHER PEOPLE.

JUST ACTUALLY LIFE IS STRANGER THAN WE'RE ALLOWED TO ADMIT THAT

IT IS, AND I THINK GREAT WORKS OF ART, GREAT WORKS OF COMEDY,

GREAT SONGS, THEY'RE ALWAYS ABLE TO STRETCH OUR IDEA OF WHAT IS

NORMAL, AND THAT'S WHY WE APPRECIATE THEM.

THINK OF THE BEST MOVIES.

THEY'RE ABLE TO SHOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A PARENT TO BE IN

LOVE, TO GO ON A JOURNEY AND THEY GIVE US A REAL PICTURE.

SO OFTEN WE LIVE INSIDE THESE VERY EDIT IMAGES.

I THINK LET'S USE THE CRISIS TO BE MORE HONEST ABOUT WHAT IT'S

LIKE TO BE HUMAN.

LIFE IS ALWAYS AN EMERGENCY.

YOU DON'T NEED A PLAGUE TO BE REMINDED.

IT CAN BE USEFUL JUST TO BE REMINDED THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE

ALL SUFFERING, WE'RE ALL AFRAID, WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE AT SOME

POINT.

KEEPLE THOSE THINGS RIGHT AT THE CENTER OF OUR COMPASS HELPS US

TO MAYBE FOCUS ON THE ESSENTIALS.

IT'S SO EASY TO GET DISTRACTED TANNED TO IMAGINE THAT OTHERS'

LIVES ARE SHINY AND PERFECT, THEY'RE NOT.

SO THIS IS ALL A GENTLE REMINDER FROM THE PLAGUE.

>> James: BUT ONE PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT, YOU KNOW,

MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WORRIED ABOUT THEIR JOBS, WORRIED ABOUT WORK,

WORRIED ABOUT FINANCES.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHEN THEY FEEL POWERLESS IN THOSE

FEELINGS?

>> LOOK, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE TIME, IN MODERN SOCIETY,

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TOTALLY IN CHARGE OF OUR DESTINIES, AND THE

NUMBER ONE QUESTION THAT PEOPLE WILL ASK YOU WHEN THEY MEET YOU

FOR THE FIRST TIME IS WHAT DO YOU DO, AND YOU BETTER HAVE AN

IMPRESSIVE ANSWER TO WHAT YOU DO.

YOU ARE YOUR JOB AND YOUR PERFORMANCE IN THE MARKETPLACE,

WHICH MAKES IT SO GUILT BECAUSE, ON TOP OF OUR FINANCIAL WORRIES,

WE'VE GOT OUR STATUS WORRIES, WE FEEL PEOPLE WON'T LIKE US UNLESS

WE'RE DOING TERRIFICALLY.

IN A WAY, AGAIN, THE SILVER LINING OF THIS TIME IS, IF

THINGS ARE NOT GOING TERRIFICALLY FOR YOU AND THE

ECONOMY IS WOBBLING IN LOTS OF POTS, IT'S GENERALLY NOT YOUR

FAULT.

WE ARE NOT ALWAYS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHATEVER HAPPENS TO US.

YOU KNOW, YOUR BIOGRAPHY IS NOT WHO YOU ARE.

YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WE CAN BE TERRIBLY SNOBBISH.

WHAT I MEAN BY SNOBBISH IS WE TAKE A SMALL PART OF WHAT

PEOPLE, ARE WHAT'S ON THEIR BUSINESS CARD, HOW THEY HAVE

BEEN DOING THIS MONTH, AND THAT BECOMES THE WHOLE OF WHO THEY

ARE.

IT NEVER IS.

WE'RE ALL FAR RICHER THAN MERELY OUR JOBS.

AND I THINK THIS CRISIS IS FORCING US FOR BETTER OR FOR

WORSE TO SEE EACH OTHER IN A FAR LARGER KIND OF CONTEXT.

WE ARE MUCH MORE THAN THE ECONOMY TELLS US WE ARE, AND

WHEN THE ECONOMIES GO MAD, WE DESERVE TO REDISCOVER ONE

ANOTHER AS HUMAN BEINGS.

>> James: CAN I ASK YOU -- UST WANT TO SAY ONE THING.

WE'VE GOT A LOT OF PARENTS, RIGHT.

A LOT OF PARENTS ARE GOING I'M NOT TEACHING MY CHILD --

>> James: THAT'S WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO ASK YOU ABOUT PARENTING

AND WHAT DO I SAY TO MY CHILDREN WHEN THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THESE

THINGS.

>> WELL, THIS IS IT, SO MUCH WORRY IT COMES DOWN TO BECAUSE

WE'VE GOT THIS BACKGROUND IDEA THAT THE ONLY GOOD PARENT IS THE

PERFECT PARENT.

HERE'S THE TRUTH, IF YOU ARE TRYING TO BE A PERFECT PARENT,

YOU ARE PUTTING YOUR CHILD ON A ONE-WAY ROAD TO PSYCHOSIS.

NO CHILD NEEDS A PERFECT PARENT.

AND YOU KNOW WHY?

BECAUSE THE WORLD IS IMPERFECT AND, ULTIMATELY, THE JOB OF

BEING A PARENT IS TO PREPARE YOUR CHILD FOR WHAT THE WORLD IS

ACTUALLY LIKE.

SO IF YOU PREPARE YOUR CHILD FOR AN IDEA THAT THE WORLD IS

PERFECT AND YOU AS THE PARENTAL REPRESENTATIVE IS THIS SOME

SUPERHUMAN BEING, YOU'RE DOING THEM A DISSERVICE.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A TERRIFIC CRASH WITH REALITY AND IT'S

GOING TO BE GRIM.

MUCH BETTER THEY MEET THE DISAPPOINTMENT OF LIFE THROUGH

YOU AN ORDINARY, FLAWED BUT LOVING AND GENTLE SOUL AS THE

AVERAGE PARENT IS, AND THAT IS HOW YOU'RE PREPARING YOUR KID

FOR REALITY.

SO DITCH THE MANDARIN, THE PERFECTION, THE S SOURDOUGH AND

JUST REVEAL YOURSELF TO YOUR OWN CHILD AS A LOVING, HARD WORKING

BUT ULTIMATELY HUMAN BEING, AND THAT IS THE MUCH GREATER GIFT

THAN TRYING TO BE PERFECT MOM OR DAD.

AS I SAY, NO ONE NEEDS A PERFECT MOM OR DAD.

THEY ONLY NEED A GOOD ENOUGH MOM OR DAD, THAT'S ALL WE EVER NEED.

>> James: I'M INTERESTED TO KNOW SO MANY PEOPLE LOOK TO YOU

FOR GUIDANCE IN THEIR LIVES.

WHO DO YOU LOOK TO FOR YOUR GUIDANCE WHEN YOU'RE SORT OF

STRUGGLING?

HOW DO YOU CULTIVATE THESE VERY THOUGHTS THAT YOU'RE SHARING

WITH US NOW?

>> LOOK, I THINK THAT ALL OF US HAVE GOT A LITTLE VOICE OF

COMMON SENSE INSIDE US, BUT WE DON'T LET IT EMERGE.

BUT I THINK ALL OF US, YOU KNOW, KNOW HOW TO BE A GREAT FRIEND

FOR OTHER PEOPLE, BUT VERY OFTEN WE DON'T SPEAK AS FRIENDS TO

OURSELVES.

IF MOST OF US SAW HOW WE TREAT OURSELVES, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CRUEL

TO OURSELVES.

WE'RE SO KIND WHEN A FRIEND CALLS UP SAYING, HOW CAN YOU

HELP ME, BUT WITH OURSELVES, WE'RE QUITE MEAN.

I THINK ONE OF THE GREAT LESSONS OF LIFE IS BECOME A FRIEND TO

YOURSELF.

ONE OF THE THINGS TO GO IS IF I WASN'T ME, HOW WOULD I ADVISE ME

AND YOU WOULD HAVE A GOOD ANSWER.

USE IT FOR THE PERSON WHO REALLY MATTERS TO YOU, WHICH IS YOU.

IT'S SO IRONIC THAT WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO APPLY THE GENEROSITY

AND THE MINIMUM OF COMPASSION THAT WE SHOW TO STRANGERS AND

OURSELVES.

MORE THAN ANY OTHER, BE A FRIEND TO YOURSELF, SHOW YOURSELF THE

TOLERANCE YOU KNOW OTHERS DESERVE, YOU DESERVE IT, TOO.

>> James: SO MANY CONVERSATIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE

HAVING RIGHT NOW ARE ALL ABOUT WHEN THIS WILL BE OVER, WHEN I

WILL BE OVER, WHEN DO YOU THINK WE'LL BE ABLE TO DO X, Y AND Z.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE CAN LEARN FROM THIS, THE OTHER SIDE, AND I

GUESS WHAT DO YOU HOPE WE HANG ON TO WHEN WE DO AS WE

INETTAABLY WILL GET THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS VIRUS?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING.

FOR ME, SO OFTEN IN LIFE, THERE ARE GREAT IDEAS THAT PEOPLE

DON'T PUT INTO MOTION.

AND WHEN YOU SAY, WHY DON'T YOU PUT THAT IDEA INTO MOTION, THEY

GO, YOU KNOW, IT'S NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE, THIS IS JUST THE

WAY WE ALWAYS DO IT, IT WOULD BE TOO DIFFICULT TO CHANGE.

WE HAVE TURNED THE WORLD M MORE LESS UPSIDE DOWN IN FIVE WEEKS.

TRADITIONS THAT WERE STEADY FOR 300 YEARS HAVE BEEN CHANGED IN

AN AFTERNOON.

SOME OF THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE, BUT OTHERS

HAVE BEEN GLORIOUS REVOLUTIONS, AND I THINK THAT WHAT WE MOST

NEED TO TAKE AWAY FROM THIS CRISIS IS WE CAN CHANGE THINGS

AND WE CAN CHANGE THINGS NOT OVER TEN YEARS BUT OVER, LIKE,

AN AFTERNOON.

WE CAN RADICALLY CHANGE HOW WE LIVE AND BE IMAGINATIVE AND

COURAGEOUS, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PERFECT THE WAY WE

REDESIGN THINGS, BUT WE CAN PLAY, WE CAN EXPERIMENT, WE CAN

TRY TO MAKE LIFE THE MORE FULFILLING AND EXCITING AND

GENUINELY JOYFUL THING THAT WE KNOW IN OUR HEARTS WE ALL WANT.

BUT SO OFTEN WE'RE HELD BACK BY TRADITION.

LET'S THROW THE BAD TRADITIONS OUT OF THE WINDOW AND TRY AND BE

AMBITIOUS ABOUT HOW WE WANT TO LIVE.

>> James: SOMETHING YOU SAID THAT HAS STUCK WITH ME, YOU SAID

REALLY WANTS IS TO BE SEEN AND HEARD AND TREATED WITH KINDNESS.

DO YOU THINK IN THIS TIME WE ARE SEEING MORE GREATER ACTIONS OF

PEOPLE SEEING EACH OTHER WHO PERHAPS WE MAY HAVE WALKED PAST

DAILY?

>> TOTALLY.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, BEING FAMOUS.

WHY DO MOST PEOPLE WANT TO BE FAMOUS?

IS IT BECAUSE THEY WANT THE LARGE HOUSES?

NO, IT'S MUCH MORE POIGNANT AND UNIVERSALS.

MOST PEOPLE JUST WANT PEOPLE TO NOTICE AND BE KIND TO THEM.

AT THE MOMENT, IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO BE FAMOUS.

FAMOUS PEOPLE ARE HAVING TO BE ORDINARY PEOPLE, AND THAT

PROVIDES EVERYONE WITH A KIND OF OPENING BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE

REALIZING IS IT WASN'T THE FAME THAT PEOPLE WANT, IT'S THE

RESPECT, THE REGARD, THE CHAT, JUST ACKNOWLEDGING SOMEBODY

ELSE'S HUMANITY.

WE TALK SO MUCH ABOUT ROMANTIC LOVE, WE'RE A ROMANTIC LOVE

OBSESSED SOCIETY.

BUT, AGAIN, WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED ROMANTIC LOVE.

ALL WE NEED IS THE LOVE THAT OCCURS IN A VERY SIMPLE AND

NATURAL WAY WHEN TWO PEOPLE, TWO STRANGERS MIGHT EXCHANGE A